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Old 09-03-2019, 04:03 PM #1
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I can say with great certainty that Bubbles was innocent
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Old 09-03-2019, 04:18 PM #2
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I can say with great certainty that Bubbles was innocent
Im forever blowing Bubbles?

i bet you were you dirty pig
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Old 09-03-2019, 04:36 PM #3
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Im forever blowing Bubbles?



i bet you were you dirty pig
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Old 09-03-2019, 04:24 PM #4
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There are commemorative chocolate teapots on ebay at the moment, for all the fans who still believe in Michael's innocence.
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Old 09-03-2019, 04:32 PM #5
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Originally Posted by Toy Soldier View Post
There are commemorative chocolate teapots on ebay at the moment, for all the fans who still believe in Michael's innocence.
Well they'de be more reliable than those two money grabbers
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Old 09-03-2019, 05:00 PM #6
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Well they'de be more reliable than those two money grabbers
Exactly.
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Old 09-03-2019, 06:53 PM #7
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But yeah the abducted in plain sight parents kind if prove that maybe there's just a type of parent like that too. I mean even allowing your 7 year old sleep with a grown man is bizarre behaviour for a parent even if he never touched them
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You compare Jim Davidson to Nelson Mandela?
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Old 09-03-2019, 06:55 PM #8
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Well there were those mothers who handed their babies over to that Ian Watkins. Humanity can be so depraved.
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Old 09-03-2019, 06:57 PM #9
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Well there were those mothers who handed their babies over to that Ian Watkins. Humanity can be so depraved.
Jesus, I had forgotten about that case..makes me feel sick to my stomach even thinking about it.
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Old 09-03-2019, 06:57 PM #10
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Well there were those mothers who handed their babies over to that Ian Watkins. Humanity can be so depraved.
It's hard to even try and figure out what goes on in people like that's minds
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You compare Jim Davidson to Nelson Mandela?
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Katie Hopkins reveals epilepsy made her suicidal - and says she identifies as a MAN
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Old 09-03-2019, 09:19 PM #11
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Did anyone bother to watch the beach radio video I posted as not had any feedback I wonder why,?
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Old 09-03-2019, 09:27 PM #12
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I'm actually stunned that anyone could watch this white wash and not be cynical about the motives behind it
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Old 09-03-2019, 09:41 PM #13
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Originally Posted by Kazanne View Post
Did anyone bother to watch the beach radio video I posted as not had any feedback I wonder why,?
I gave you feedback Kazanne earlier.
It was interesting.

Of course it was more in line with my thoughts anyway but it was informative and it made strong points.

Thank you for posting it.
I still think overall it would be poo pooed as just biased towards him on here sadly.
However it had facts, no changes of opinion and I think opened the door to the more likely scenario, this was a carefully rehearsed, non confrontational, no awkward questioning documentary.
.Done in the hope probably it could help with the appeal they have coming up, against the Jackson estate.

I don't think I've watched anything like this, where all through the people talking on it, came across so unconvincing as to the content of what they were claiming.

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Old 09-03-2019, 10:37 PM #14
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I gave you feedback Kazanne earlier.
It was interesting.

Of course it was more in line with my thoughts anyway but it was informative and it made strong points.

Thank you for posting it.
I still think overall it would be poo pooed as just biased towards him on here sadly.
However it had facts, no changes of opinion and I think opened the door to the more likely scenario, this was a carefully rehearsed, non confrontational, no awkward questioning documentary.
.Done in the hope probably it could help with the appeal they have coming up, against the Jackson estate.

I don't think I've watched anything like this, where all through the people talking on it, came across so unconvincing as to the content of what they were claiming.
Sorry Joey yes you did give feedback on it, yes it in line with what I think aswell,but yes you are right people wont be interested in something that might make them question the validity of those two,This ones an eye opener too about someone changing thier mind.
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Old 09-03-2019, 11:36 PM #15
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Sorry Joey yes you did give feedback on it, yes it in line with what I think aswell,but yes you are right people wont be interested in something that might make them question the validity of those two,This ones an eye opener too about someone changing thier mind.
Kaz there's another good video on YouTube which uses proper facts and goes into more information . But of course important stuff gets ignored as we must listen to the golden boys and ignore everything else . And all of a sudden the director Reed knows everything and is an expert on Wade & James' abuse allegations.
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Old 09-03-2019, 11:48 PM #16
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This video highlights just how dishonest and unstable Wade really is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgSbSotJgUY&t=4s
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Old 09-03-2019, 11:50 PM #17
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My final word on this (as I believe we are just gping round in circles) is this....forget MJ is involved. If a rich unfamous guy, in his 30s, created a childhood paradise ideal, fairground, unlimited treats etc etc, invited children and families to stay, asked pre pubescent children to sleep in his room, away from their parents.....then after treating them this way, in a few years after they were older, dropped them for younger boys who became gia favourite.....is anyone really going to suggest that there was no ulterior motive?

I am, and have said many times through this thread, shocked at the lack of empathy for these boys. Regardless of the fact of whether you believe jackson abused them sexually, he abused them emotionally by dropping them when they were older and replacing them with younger models. At best, its abandonment.

As a parent, it is like having an child then sending it away when you give birth to another.
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Old 10-03-2019, 12:19 AM #18
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My final word on this (as I believe we are just gping round in circles) is this....forget MJ is involved. If a rich unfamous guy, in his 30s, created a childhood paradise ideal, fairground, unlimited treats etc etc, invited children and families to stay, asked pre pubescent children to sleep in his room, away from their parents.....then after treating them this way, in a few years after they were older, dropped them for younger boys who became gia favourite.....is anyone really going to suggest that there was no ulterior motive?

I am, and have said many times through this thread, shocked at the lack of empathy for these boys. Regardless of the fact of whether you believe jackson abused them sexually, he abused them emotionally by dropping them when they were older and replacing them with younger models. At best, its abandonment.

As a parent, it is like having an child then sending it away when you give birth to another.
Once again the same argument about the "average joe down the road" .

Why won't you also realise that MJ was a target for greedy families who saw him as a cash cow and too gullible and trusting . Average Joe down the road wouldn't be accused multiple times of "child molestation" while paying out millions , he'd just be thrown in prison if there was substantial evidence . You don't sue a potential paedophile for his money , you report him to the police and you hope he never get's let out of prison!!. That's what justice looks like .

Why do people ignore the fact that MJ was acquitted and was investigated for years and authorities , FBI you name it went in his personal business , his home , his documents everything he owned . He was the most scrutinised person ever !! .

Nobody said it was sensible what MJ was doing , but it's so easy to see things as weird and uncomfortable when people twist things and don't get facts straight . Corey feldman said him and MJ spoke for ages and it was so innocent there was nothing that ever made him suspect MJ was a child molester .

Maculay is the same he praising MJ and continues to say it was just a fun friendship , there was nothing inappropriate going on . Maculay is the type of guy and same with Corey who wouldn't be afraid to confess all , so why do people ignore these 2? but we're suppose to believe wade & james?? who are proved liars!! this is what i can't get my head round people supporting them . Say a lie enough times and people jump on the band wagon especially when it becomes more and more graphic and shocking like what we're seeing .

It just reminds me of the other one sided slanderous programme they did on MJ 15 years ago where again shocking accusations were made about MJ showering with kids etc . Then later on the same person who claimed she saw MJ in a shower with a young kid later admitted she was lying and just saw MJ on his own in the shower! . All money motivated!! .


When facts are laid out for people their so called accusations crumble or they contradict themselves.
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Old 10-03-2019, 07:30 AM #19
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Originally Posted by GoldHeart View Post
Once again the same argument about the "average joe down the road" .

Why won't you also realise that MJ was a target for greedy families who saw him as a cash cow and too gullible and trusting . Average Joe down the road wouldn't be accused multiple times of "child molestation" while paying out millions , he'd just be thrown in prison if there was substantial evidence . You don't sue a potential paedophile for his money , you report him to the police and you hope he never get's let out of prison!!. That's what justice looks like .

Why do people ignore the fact that MJ was acquitted and was investigated for years and authorities , FBI you name it went in his personal business , his home , his documents everything he owned . He was the most scrutinised person ever !! .

Nobody said it was sensible what MJ was doing , but it's so easy to see things as weird and uncomfortable when people twist things and don't get facts straight . Corey feldman said him and MJ spoke for ages and it was so innocent there was nothing that ever made him suspect MJ was a child molester .

Maculay is the same he praising MJ and continues to say it was just a fun friendship , there was nothing inappropriate going on . Maculay is the type of guy and same with Corey who wouldn't be afraid to confess all , so why do people ignore these 2? but we're suppose to believe wade & james?? who are proved liars!! this is what i can't get my head round people supporting them . Say a lie enough times and people jump on the band wagon especially when it becomes more and more graphic and shocking like what we're seeing .

It just reminds me of the other one sided slanderous programme they did on MJ 15 years ago where again shocking accusations were made about MJ showering with kids etc . Then later on the same person who claimed she saw MJ in a shower with a young kid later admitted she was lying and just saw MJ on his own in the shower! . All money motivated!! .


When facts are laid out for people their so called accusations crumble or they contradict themselves.
Absolutely brilliant post Goldheart.

It's incredible that a full legal process resulting in acquittal, is just bypassed and seen as irrelevant.
Because years later, when they got nothing as yet, from the Jackson estate, 2 clear liars then before, have changed their minds.

Excellent post and I agree with Marsh too.

Plus since we are in the realms of hypothetical scenarios,taking MJ out while only to take account of the 2 currently being in the media.

How about in a hypothetical scenario, if this was a loved one of those supporting these 2, now being accused like this, by 2 people.
When their loved one had been investigated, charged, found not guilty of ALL charges, and who had now died.

Would they be wanting people to condemn their own loved one on the strength of 2 mind changers, seeking money from an estate.
Taking part in a rehearsed, no questions asked of them, documentary and no challenge to their claims.

I can answer easily for myself,NO, I would not.
I've always hated these kangaroo media court style of trial and judgement.
Which is again all this is, despite years of thorough investigation, charges and trial, then full unreserved acquittal..
That's the one full, true known fact on Michael Jackson and this serious issue.
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Old 10-03-2019, 09:11 AM #20
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I can answer easily for myself,NO, I would not.

I've always hated these kangaroo media court style of trial and judgement.

Which is again all this is, despite years of thorough investigation, charges and trial, then full unreserved acquittal..

That's the one full, true known fact on Michael Jackson and this serious issue.
It wasn't full and unreserved though, jury members have openly expressed doubts but that there wasn't sufficient evidence, so they had little choice but to aquit as the US legal system is very clear about "beyond reasonable doubt".

The legal outcome is not being overlooked Joey and hasn't been at any point it's been discussed at length, and repeatedly stating that its "overlooked" isn't going to make it true.

It's just that a legal "not guilty" outcome of a trial is not proof of innocence or even close to it and never has been, it is proof that the crime was not PROVEN and nothing more, which is correct legally because of the risk of innocent people going to prison but it in no way dictates what personal opinion should be. With conviction rates for all varieties of sexual assault being ABYSMALLY low - you surely understand that?

A TINY proportion of sexual abuse and sexual assault cases even make it to court, and then a tiny proportion of those that do result in conviction. It's well known that the vast majority of rapists walk free through lack of evidence. It doesn't mean anything.

I can't possibly believe that you're naive enough to think that the legal system usually or even particularly often "gets it right" when it comes to sex crimes.

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Old 10-03-2019, 10:35 AM #21
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It wasn't full and unreserved though, jury members have openly expressed doubts but that there wasn't sufficient evidence, so they had little choice but to aquit as the US legal system is very clear about "beyond reasonable doubt".

The legal outcome is not being overlooked Joey and hasn't been at any point it's been discussed at length, and repeatedly stating that its "overlooked" isn't going to make it true.

It's just that a legal "not guilty" outcome of a trial is not proof of innocence or even close to it and never has been, it is proof that the crime was not PROVEN and nothing more, which is correct legally because of the risk of innocent people going to prison but it in no way dictates what personal opinion should be. With conviction rates for all varieties of sexual assault being ABYSMALLY low - you surely understand that?

A TINY proportion of sexual abuse and sexual assault cases even make it to court, and then a tiny proportion of those that do result in conviction. It's well known that the vast majority of rapists walk free through lack of evidence. It doesn't mean anything.

I can't possibly believe that you're naive enough to think that the legal system usually or even particularly often "gets it right" when it comes to sex crimes.
I take it you did not watch the videos TS,as you would have heard that there was not ONE scrap of evidence against him ,why would you believe otherwise,this is after the FBI,child services and the police investigated him and also proven evidence of people lying about what they had seen,none existant photographs,surely if people can spare 4 hours to condemn him sure 1 hour of video to give the other side of the coin is worth a watch
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Old 10-03-2019, 11:50 AM #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier View Post
It wasn't full and unreserved though, jury members have openly expressed doubts but that there wasn't sufficient evidence, so they had little choice but to aquit as the US legal system is very clear about "beyond reasonable doubt".

The legal outcome is not being overlooked Joey and hasn't been at any point it's been discussed at length, and repeatedly stating that its "overlooked" isn't going to make it true.

It's just that a legal "not guilty" outcome of a trial is not proof of innocence or even close to it and never has been, it is proof that the crime was not PROVEN and nothing more, which is correct legally because of the risk of innocent people going to prison but it in no way dictates what personal opinion should be. With conviction rates for all varieties of sexual assault being ABYSMALLY low - you surely understand that?

A TINY proportion of sexual abuse and sexual assault cases even make it to court, and then a tiny proportion of those that do result in conviction. It's well known that the vast majority of rapists walk free through lack of evidence. It doesn't mean anything.

I can't possibly believe that you're naive enough to think that the legal system usually or even particularly often "gets it right" when it comes to sex crimes.
I work in law.
The law doesn't always come up with the right result.

However, you can dismiss all you want the court verdict.
Adding any footnotes you like, that neither the jury or judge did.


The fact, fact being the word is after years of investigation, charges and trial.
On every single charge he was found not guilty.

Now in the absence of all the investigators and what the court had, you can add conditions to all those not guilty verdicts.
I never could or would.

Had his case only rested on these 2 individuals, then that would present an issue
He wasn't acquitted just on this pairs connection and statements.
He was because the court believed from all the evidence, he was not guilty.

You can keep saying he is all you like but in law you are wrong. Sorry.

I've seen many examples of false accusations, a lot of cases fail because the one alleging cries off appearing in court.
Sex crimes are a difficult area and a lot of the problems round them are people making false accusations and claims.

You say the legal facts of MJs trial aren't being overlooked and are being discussed.
They are mentioned and at tines as you are doing, adding conditions not in place by jury or judge.
So not overlooked but being clouded or dismissed.

While accepting in full the now new and changed claims of these 2 men.

I'll stick with the court verdicts, even not taking into consideration what these were saying at the time of the trial.
Accepting what all other witnesses said under oath.

Unlike the now conveniently changed things this pair are saying now.
Waiting until the man is dead to do so.
Some may possibly be being naive here but it ain't me.
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Old 11-03-2019, 12:05 AM #23
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Absolutely brilliant post Goldheart.

It's incredible that a full legal process resulting in acquittal, is just bypassed and seen as irrelevant.
Because years later, when they got nothing as yet, from the Jackson estate, 2 clear liars then before, have changed their minds.

Excellent post and I agree with Marsh too.

Plus since we are in the realms of hypothetical scenarios,taking MJ out while only to take account of the 2 currently being in the media.

How about in a hypothetical scenario, if this was a loved one of those supporting these 2, now being accused like this, by 2 people.
When their loved one had been investigated, charged, found not guilty of ALL charges, and who had now died.

Would they be wanting people to condemn their own loved one on the strength of 2 mind changers, seeking money from an estate.
Taking part in a rehearsed, no questions asked of them, documentary and no challenge to their claims.

I can answer easily for myself,NO, I would not.
I've always hated these kangaroo media court style of trial and judgement.
Which is again all this is, despite years of thorough investigation, charges and trial, then full unreserved acquittal..
That's the one full, true known fact on Michael Jackson and this serious issue.
Thanks Joey & Kaz

It's truly baffling that a full in depth court case where MJ was cleared of all charges get's thrown away just because 2 guys now claim they were repeatedly & graphically abuse . And if i challenge it and do research and look at the facts and the dodgy backgrounds of wade & jimmy then it's shut down , especially on youtube the comments are crazy .

I wouldn't be surprised if Dan Reed had a dodgy past, wonder what the police would find if they raided his home .

There's a bigger issue and problem here , where certain people's truth is seen as "the truth" . Body expert analysis points out all the guilty cues of Wade in his 2013 interview.

We now live in a dangerous culture and trend where any documentary maker can make a movie and claim it's "real" & "accurate" when actually it's BS & inaccurate and just solely relies on manipulation tactics and emotions . Dan Reed went for the lazy option , he did zero research of Wade & Jimmy and he just cares about the media attention.

BBC turned against Cliff Richard and Banned Mj music yet they covered for Saville for years and not long ago they even "mistakenly" showed a children's programme episode of Jimmy Saville . So many contradictions and i feel like alot of these networks are corrupt like BBC & HBO.
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Old 10-03-2019, 10:27 AM #24
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Once again the same argument about the "average joe down the road" .

Why won't you also realise that MJ was a target for greedy families who saw him as a cash cow and too gullible and trusting . Average Joe down the road wouldn't be accused multiple times of "child molestation" while paying out millions , he'd just be thrown in prison if there was substantial evidence . You don't sue a potential paedophile for his money , you report him to the police and you hope he never get's let out of prison!!. That's what justice looks like .

Why do people ignore the fact that MJ was acquitted and was investigated for years and authorities , FBI you name it went in his personal business , his home , his documents everything he owned . He was the most scrutinised person ever !! .

Nobody said it was sensible what MJ was doing , but it's so easy to see things as weird and uncomfortable when people twist things and don't get facts straight . Corey feldman said him and MJ spoke for ages and it was so innocent there was nothing that ever made him suspect MJ was a child molester .

Maculay is the same he praising MJ and continues to say it was just a fun friendship , there was nothing inappropriate going on . Maculay is the type of guy and same with Corey who wouldn't be afraid to confess all , so why do people ignore these 2? but we're suppose to believe wade & james?? who are proved liars!! this is what i can't get my head round people supporting them . Say a lie enough times and people jump on the band wagon especially when it becomes more and more graphic and shocking like what we're seeing .

It just reminds me of the other one sided slanderous programme they did on MJ 15 years ago where again shocking accusations were made about MJ showering with kids etc . Then later on the same person who claimed she saw MJ in a shower with a young kid later admitted she was lying and just saw MJ on his own in the shower! . All money motivated!! .


When facts are laid out for people their so called accusations crumble or they contradict themselves.
Old Willie Wonka will be the next in line this is all so silly the ignoring of facts it's funny talk about tunnel vision.Goldheart .
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Old 10-03-2019, 10:33 AM #25
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Old Willie Wonka will be the next in line this is all so silly the ignoring of facts it's funny talk about tunnel vision.Goldheart .
Well you know who Johnny Depp based his version of Willy Wonka on, don't You?
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