[Ammi]

...one of the things that I noticed on some movies on Amazon Prime...(...maybe the same on Netflix but I haven’t looked for it...)...is that just above the title with some, it will say when the screening ends...(...you missed Steel Magnolias...)...it doesn’t seem to have it with all of them but it does with some...possibly the ones just about to be taken off..?...

[ChristmasNeeve]

I never noticed that, I haven't used Prime much tbh, we got a years free subscription with our broadband contract, I don't find it as user friendly or as good a layout as Netflix though

[Ammi]

...it was thanks to our Marsh that I noticed it because usually I would just be looking at the movie title and then checking if it was going to cost me money...I’m the same with the free subscription except it’s not hours, someone else gave it to us.../...their log in for it because they don’t use it...I wasn’t sure at first about doing that .....but heck, let’s just be reckless atm, we needed the choice...

...strangely I prefer the format of it now over Netflix and that’s only in the last week or so...(...again, our Marsh...)...because now that I see how it works, I find it easier to search through...

[Ammi]

...another movie that I’d like to watch again is Sucker Punch, but I’ll have to check the movie sites to see if it’s screening....

[Ammi]

...Sucker Punch is on Netflix atm....thoughts...?...

[ChristmasNeeve]

Yep, perfect. I have around 45 minutes left to watch of Fallen, I'll try to get that finished today. I'm enjoying it just couldn't really finish it at home last night on You tube because we were watching TV

[Ammi]

...perfect.....it’s a long time since I watched it and it’s another one that sets the thoughts in motion....

[ChristmasNeeve]

I don't think I've seen it actually

[ChristmasNeeve]

I'm going to put it on tonight I think, it's a sci fi thing is it? Gav likes some Sci Fi

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I'm going to put it on tonight I think, it's a sci fi thing is it? Gav likes some Sci Fi

.....hmmmmm, it’s an action/fantasy/psychological, type thing...I don’t know exactly how to describe it...but I think Gav will enjoy it...

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Ammi

.....hmmmmm, it’s an action/fantasy/psychological, type thing...I don’t know exactly how to describe it...but I think Gav will enjoy it...

Yeah that's perfect, he likes that sort of thing

[Christmas Lights]

I haven't watched Boyhood but I was happy for Patricia Arquette winning an award at the time as she use to seem underrated .

Definitely a unique style of filming someone actually growing up in the same movie , took like 12 years to make or something ? .

[Bollo]

Oh god I'm really behind sorry at the moment I'm trying to get used to the new shift pattern at work...
So I watched A few good men...

Spoiler:

I think i had seen it before but forgotten it as at the time late 80's/ early 90's I was into a much more whimsical genre of films ( Heathers/Flatliners etc...) so i wasn't really into courtroom dramas at the time, I am much more so now...
This is a tricky one for me as it was very morally complex and had an interesting storyline.... However I'm not a Cruise fan so this could be clouding my judgement, but at this particular time period he just seems to play the same character ... a young, arrogant but dynamic and promising- insert profession here -(pilot/ barista/ racing car driver/sports agent etc) goes out on a limb , gets humbled and then ultimately triumphs....Maybe i'm too cynical.. I found Demi Moore completely faded into the background...I thought Jack Nicholson was pretty good , i didn't know this was the movie where the quote ' You can't handle the truth!' came from, i enjoyed that bit and i did like the verdict/ moral at the end...But i just found it took way too long to get there..

Well I have a couple of days off now so I should be able to catch up with Fallen... I'm looking forward to this one It looks really interesting and i don't think I've seen it before...

[ChristmasNeeve]

that description of Tom Cruise is spot on Bollo

Also Heather's

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

I love A few good men. Jack Nicholson is fantastic in it!

[ChristmasNeeve]

Sucker Punch (will finish Fallen today)

Spoiler:

hhhhhmmmm I don't even know what to write about this one. I can't decide whether I liked it or not. I guess the whole movie was a pimped up version of what was actually happening? Which was kind of interesting but it also felt like the movie was made to titillate teenage boys It didn't come across as empowering for women to me if that's what it was trying to do. I think they were trying to send a message of you're bad for only viewing women as sexual objects etc but imo it fails to do that in the same way that TV show "Cuties" does, you can't condemn the exploitation of women in film by exploiting women in film, does that make sense?

Right I've decided no I didn't like it

[ChristmasNeeve]

And another thing(Sucker Punch Spoilers ahead)..........

Spoiler:

Been thinking a lot about this film this morning, trying to arrange and articulate my thoughts on it so I've spent the last hour or so reading reviews on it. This one in particular really says what I feel about it :

Is Zack Snyder‘s Sucker Punch exploitation or empowerment? That’s the question that’s been floating around since even before the film was released, and it’s a pretty obvious one given that the movie was marketed entirely on the appeal of scantily clad young women wielding big ass weapons. Most of the reviews I’ve read of the film at least touch on the issue, and Snyder has preemptively addressed it in interviews by saying he intends the film to be empowering to women.

It’s not.

Sucker Punch may look like empowerment on the surface, sure. At first glance, Baby Doll and her gun-toting pals appear to be refreshing antidotes to the weak, helpless, ditzy female creatures that populate so much of modern cinema – including a great many films aimed at women. The girls of Sucker Punch fight back, hard. In a society that’s still unwilling to officially allow female soldiers to engage in combat, their spirit and courage seems like a step forward. (Unofficially, of course, female soldiers are already engaging in combat, but that’s another topic.)

The thing is, though, that the trope of the ass-kicking hottie is nothing new. She’s a common figure in anime and video games, for example, and appears in films like Kill Bill and The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. She’s not always offensive, but she’s not inherently empowering, either. If she’s framed in the same old male gaze, she ends up being just another variation of the same old male fantasies.

And make no mistake: Sucker Punch may star five beautiful actresses, but in actuality, it’s all about the men. Men are the audience, both in real life and in the bordello fantasy universe where most of the film takes place. Men set the plot in motion, and act as villains and leaders. The girls look and act like walking male fantasies, and the movie makes sure we see them that way – by dressing them up in skin-baring outfits, lingering on their conventionally hot bodies, and oh yeah, making their attractiveness to men a huge plot point. In fact, the girls’ entire escape plan hinges on one character’s ability to mesmerize men with her sexy dancing.

The girls really only kick ass in their dreams — or rather, in a dream within their dream — and even there, a man is calling the shots. Only one of the five girls makes it out of the asylum alive, and that girl is Sweet Pea — the girl who feared male power the most from the very beginning. And even when she gets out, she seems meek and powerless. In the final scenes of the film, she’s confronted by two policemen investigating incidents in the area. She’s unable to speak up for herself, and only gets off the hook when the male bus driver (Wise Man, from the girls’ fantasy-within-a-fantasy) comes to her defense.

Moreover, although Snyder says that “hopefully by the end the girls are empowered by their sexuality and not exploited,” this is not at all what happens. Sexuality is treated as a weapon from the very beginning, for both genders. For the men, this means sexual assault. Though no rape actually occurs in the film, the threat of it hangs over the entire film — whether explicitly, as during the attempted rape scenes, or more subtly, as in the shots of men inappropriately and possessively leering at the girls. Later, as the girls begin to fight back, they use their sexuality as weapons as well – by using it to dupe men long enough to steal their things. And to drive the point home, whenever Baby Doll is performing her sexy, sexy dance, she jumps into a violent fantasy of explosions and gunfights.

But the men, at least, seem to take pleasure in sex. The girls are never seen as enjoying their sexuality on their own terms. In fact, Baby Doll’s face as she launches into each dance routine wears an expression of pain and humiliation. Which, seeing as every man but one in this movie is a deranged sicko, is probably part of the appeal.

So to summarize, yes, the girls kick ass, but they only do so within the context of fighting back against men who already have power over them. Most of the girls don’t win, and the one who does still needs a man to help her and look after her. In this light, Snyder’s claim that Sucker Punch is empowering isn’t just false, but damaging. It reframes feminism – or “female empowerment,” if you’d prefer not to use the F-word – in terms of male fantasy. In other words, it’s okay for ladies to kick ass and ****, as long as they do it in a way that turns men on. I’m not saying this was Snyder’s conscious intention – I seriously doubt it was – but that’s the message that comes across to this viewer.

Sucker Punch is straight up exploitation. There’s no winking here, or clever spins, or any of that. And that’s fine, to a point. Exploitation films have their own kind of value, and I get that. What bothers me isn’t so much the cute girls in skimpy outfits, but Snyder’s notion that women like me are supposed to find them empowering. As Jezebel’s Dodai Stewart put it: “Sucker Punch is a two-hour $82 million fetish film examining how hot sad schoolgirls look when holding weapons. Snyder should have just made a porn movie — it might have been better, and it definitely would have been cheaper and more honest.”

What’s frustrating about the sexism of Sucker Punch is that if Snyder really wanted to make a film that was more than pure exploitative fantasy, he could’ve easily done so. There is a way to show beautiful ladies fighting in a way that’s not exploitative – Buffy the Vampire Slayer is an obvious example of a girl who regularly beats people up, but also happens to be attractive. It’s also possible to take exploitation tropes and turn them on their head, as Quentin Tarantino did in Kill Bill. (Whether Kill Bill qualifies as feminist is a whole other line of discussion, but for now, suffice it to say it’s miles better than Sucker Punch in that department. And in most other departments, for that matter.)

So, what’s the difference between a badass female character and a lazy stereotype of a badass female character? The answer is simple, though you wouldn’t know it from the number of two-dimensional ladies Hollywood churns out every year: You give her an inner life, and you prioritize that inner life over her outer appearance. Your powerful female character doesn’t have to be ugly or dressed in frumpy clothes – go ahead, put her in stilettos and a push-up bra – but if her attractiveness to men is all there is to the character, she’s nothing more than an object.

Cowboy Bebop’s Faye Valentine makes a good example of how to write a conventionally sexy female character who’s more than just a conventionally sexy character. Not only is she physically perfect in that way that anime women so often are, her outfit is just as skimpy as the ones in Sucker Punch, and she wields a weapon every bit as well as Baby Doll. The difference is that Faye has a distinct personality, a history, an inner life. These make her a character you care about, even while you’re admiring how smoking hot she is.

Likewise, though the women of Kill Bill are uncomplicated and supermodel-gorgeous, they showcase a physical and emotional power in a way that’s sadly absent from Sucker Punch. Even as we’re reveling in fantasies of chick fights and dragon ladies and naughty nurses, we’re admiring how strong the ladies of the Deadly Viper Assassination Squad are. Though their looks are a large part of the fun in watching them, there’s more to these women than surface appearances. As I pointed out earlier, Sucker Punch is only comfortable showing girls fighting when it’s in a second-level fantasy, and even then they have to look hot the whole time.

Of course, you can’t have your cake and eat it too. If Sucker Punch had deepened its characters, it wouldn’t work quite so well as the mindless, indulgent fantasy it is now. Part of the film’s appeal is undoubtedly its very brainlessness – you get to check your mind and emotions at the door, and just indulge your id for a couple of hours. You wouldn’t be able to do that as easily if you had to actually invest in the film and its characters. For my money, though, a Sucker Punch that featured real characters instead vaguely drawn archetypes would’ve made for a far more satisfying experience.

Sucker Punch isn’t the most misogynistic film out there – there are far, far worse. But it’s not progressive, either, and that’s why the argument that it’s “empowering” bothers me so much. If you want to revel in two hours of hot chicks in skimpy clothing fighting dragons and undead Nazis and ****, that’s your prerogative. Have fun with that, and enjoy it for what it is. But please don’t pretend I should be celebrating it.

https://www.slashfilm.com/sucker-punch-2/

[Ammi]

...Sucker Punch...

Spoiler:

...I feel really bad for recommending tbh because I don’t think it was a movie for this club and it wasn’t the movie I recall it to be...it’s strange how we can sometimes remember things... or maybe I should say, it’s more how at different points through time, our focus on watching can differ...for me, my overall memory of it was more the beginning and ending...in that she’d obviously accidentally killed her sister...(...after sadly losing their mother...)...while she was trying to protect that sibling from the sexual abuse she obviously went through...for me, I had never been quite entirely sure which of the institution parts were l and which were imagined...I mean, obviously the fight scenes were imagined...but other part....and then the ending really impacted with me because of the sadness of it and that the lobotomy had been performed and this was all imagined during that procedure...anyways, on a positive..(...for me...)...my focus of the movie on the first watch hadn’t absorbed other parts that made me feel that I wasn’t sure that I wanted to continue watching at points last night... and this is why it’s good to revisit these things because our focuses can change at different times as well when absorbing ....

[ChristmasNeeve]

Sucker Punch

Spoiler:

No Ammi don't apologise, actually even though I disliked it, it does give you a lot of food for thought and things to discuss and you know me and my feminist ways, I could discuss this **** forever

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Sucker Punch

Spoiler:

No Ammi don't apologise, actually even though I disliked it, it does give you a lot of food for thought and things to discuss and you know me and my feminist ways, I could discuss this **** forever

Spoiler:

...this was how I recalled it as well, to have had discussion points, which is what we’re looking for as well...it’s strange though how the beginning and ending were the main points of my focus in recollection and yet it was all the exploitation I was focusing on now, as in the middle bit...and yeah, I do get that the intention was that we strongly felt female empowerment as well ..?...but didn’t feel it and couldn’t feel it because all I felt was the vulnerability of the girls and that it all ended very, very sadly and very, very tragically...

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Ammi

Spoiler:

...this was how I recalled it as well, to have had discussion points, which is what we’re looking for as well...it’s strange though how the beginning and ending were the main points of my focus in recollection and yet it was all the exploitation I was focusing on now, as in the middle bit...and yeah, I do get that the intention was that we strongly felt female empowerment as well ..?...but didn’t feel it and couldn’t feel it because all I felt was the vulnerability of the girls and that it all ended very, very sadly and very, very tragically...

Spoiler:

I wonder if I had seen it when it came out originally would my own thoughts have been different? I was always a bit of a feminist but time changes how you view things as well and maybe I would have thought woman + sword = empowerment too, I don't know I'm sure if I had watched it as a teenager I definitely would have thought that

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Spoiler:

I wonder if I had seen it when it came out originally would my own thoughts have been different? I was always a bit of a feminist but time changes how you view things as well and maybe I would have thought woman + sword = empowerment too, I don't know I'm sure if I had watched it as a teenager I definitely would have thought that

Spoiler:

...yeah when I think about it, that’s it also...it’s not so much that my focus hadn’t been there but that I obviously felt that empowerment...they became like Charlie’s Angel types, you know...so kick ass but I just wasn’t feeling that at all yesterday...actually my OH and I did have a big discussion about it because he had felt the same discomforts and wasn’t sure what to make of it...


...just a slight off topic and hmmmmm, I’ve always looked at characters like Lara Croft as embodying and showing female empowerment but is female exploitation more the thing there as well....I mean, the overriding thing ...maybe I’m going completely off course but the fight scenes or fight dreams were very video game, weren’t they...

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by Ammi

Spoiler:

...yeah when I think about it, that’s it also...it’s not so much that my focus hadn’t been there but that I obviously felt that empowerment...they became like Charlie’s Angel types, you know...so kick ass but I just wasn’t feeling that at all yesterday...actually my OH and I did have a big discussion about it because he had felt the same discomforts and wasn’t sure what to make of it...


...just a slight off topic and hmmmmm, I’ve always looked at characters like Lara Croft as embodying and showing female empowerment but is female exploitation more the thing there as well....I mean, the overriding thing ...maybe I’m going completely off course but the fight scenes or fight dreams were very video game, weren’t they...

Spoiler:

I don't play video games so my only real knowledge of Lara Croft is through the films, that's an interesting question though, I never remember feeling that when watching them, I definitely felt she was bad ass and it was good to see a female lead like that. I haven't watched any of those films in years though so I wonder would feel different now? You know if we could find it somewhere, it might be a great one to watch next to test that. What do you think?

[Ammi]

...oh, going back to what you said, Bollo, as well....Tom Cruise...?..I think he’s stepped outside his box as it were for a few of his characters..I can’t quite recall which ones atm...maybe in The Firm was one...?...but on the whole though, different movie/same character with him and quite often having that ‘smug’ quality that’s just so annoying...also in A Few Good Men, his character was trying to be smug as well to wind Jack Nicholson up to expose himself...so, already smug and adding smug in....eeeek....still a good movie, though...

[Ammi]

...and actually and taking about female roles as well...what the holy heck was Demi Moore doing in tidying his apartment because he was too lazy and his guests were tripping over things....pick the stuff up and throw it at him, Demi...or put him in the cupboard so he can think about cupboard use-age ....