[Angus]

Originally Posted by Eye_Spy

its you claiming we have the best record on immigrants, yet i see no figures from you in such claims.

the army is there to defend britain isant it, now correct me if i am wrong but i cannot remember iraq invading britain. thats what the ministry of defense is isant it, to defend britain, otherwise it would be called the ministry of attack.

i dont have to whip anything up, we have bombed the crap out of kosovo, iraq and afghanistan havant we?

of course we supply arms to 3rd world dictators such as mugabe in the past for example, why would that be einstein?

I'm not "claiming" anything - the statistics are well documented and there for anyone to see, if they actually want the truth and not their own fantasies. You do know how to google don't you?

But at least in this post, I can spot some semblance of an argument emerging from your ramblings- the fact that our armed forces are deployed to fight oppressive regimes in other parts of the world and thereby bring peace and liberty to those countries, when in fact they should be in existence to merely defend our own borders?

Is that your grievance? There is already a thread on this in "Serious Debates" about whether Britain should be the policeman of the world, and there is not a lot of consensus for turning a blind eye and ignoring the plight of people living under cruel dictatorships.

I repeat, don't blame the servicemen and women, blame the politicians, and make your feelings known via the ballot box, since Britain is still a democracy, last time I looked.

[StGeorge]

Originally Posted by Eye_Spy

the army is there to defend britain isant it, now correct me if i am wrong but i cannot remember iraq invading britain. thats what the ministry of defense is isant it, to defend britain, otherwise it would be called the ministry of attack.
No Iraq invaded Kuwait..OVER OIL.. and we under a coalition backed by the UN kicked them out and then removed the regime once it had murdered a mass of Kurds & Shiites and made it blindingly obvious it was hell bent on more atrocities.

i dont have to whip anything up, we have bombed the crap out of kosovo, iraq and afghanistan havant we?
I think you will find we bombed Serbia as they were slaughtering ethnic Albanians in Kosovo. You really need to educate yourself before spouting garbage.

of course we supply arms to 3rd world dictators such as mugabe in the past for example, why would that be einstein?

100% agree bad policy....but if we didnt arm them and try to influence their internal policies, then some other dickwad would step in.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by angus58

Instead of just presenting your opinions as fait accomplis, why not engage in some proper debate with facts and figures and drop the patronising slurs?

There is still a deafening silence whilst I wait for a list of countries (or even one) that has a better record on immigration than Britain. We often have to clean up the mess of other western countries, who take a much harder and less sympathetic line towards people they have disenfranchised. And you need to get your wild accusations in synchronisation with actual facts; Britain is not responsible for all the ills of the world, but we do far more than our fair share in terms of aid and military support for oppressed countries.
Soldiers who serve in our armed forces do NOT make military decisions - that is for the politicians. Or do you suggest we scrap our armed forces altogether, lie down and not fight against oppression and blind hatred?

You are the one "whipping up frenzies", frothing at the mouth with wild accusations as to how Britain is bombing the crap out of other countries (that would be for no reason I suppose?). Where is the responsibility of other western nations or is all your vitriol just reserved for Britain? Seriously we should be turning our attentions to the hate filled enemies WITHIN Britain; they are far more dangerous than any far flung ones.

I'm going to save myself some time and just start tacking "I agree" on the end of your posts LOL...

[BB_Eye]

To paraphrase that legendary right-wing archetype Dirty Harry. I don't like this country or most of its people, but until I find something better, I'll stick with it.

[Eye_Spy]

Originally Posted by as90

BB never fails to bring to light how prejudice Britain can be, as much as i love it, it can be a very prejudice place. Unfortunately we don't live in the days of the British empire anymore and rely on many countries to supply as the goods we want to give us the quality of life we are used too. We have hardly any physical exports and our army and willingness to pursue international justice are one of our main assets. Discuss.

army willing to pursue international justice??!! is that a joke? its the army killing and bombing millions of innocent people which is causing so many problems, wake up sonny.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by as90

BB never fails to bring to light how prejudice Britain can be, as much as i love it, it can be a very prejudice place. Unfortunately we don't live in the days of the British empire anymore and rely on many countries to supply as the goods we want to give us the quality of life we are used too. We have hardly any physical exports and our army and willingness to pursue international justice are one of our main assets. Discuss.

wtf are you on about?


explain what you mean rather than make silly sweeping statements

[LadyNay]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

wtf are you on about?


explain what you mean rather than make silly sweeping statements

I agree!! Sweeping statements are the crux of internet forum debates, are they not? I personally don't like to give an opinion unless I'm informed on it. And that's one of the things that wind me up about certain FM. Where the hell do they get their information?

My opinion is that I'm extremely privilaged to live in this country. It's one of the best countries in the WORLD to live in. Nostalgia is always an easy feeling to identify with & people always harp on about days gone by ... and the people in those days probably said the same things.

If people on this forum put half as much effort into researching their ideas than they do into sitting and arguing about them over the internet to strangers, I garuntee they'd feel more content.

[Livia]

Those who want to leave this country should be encouraged to do so. As quickly as possible. And if you really want to experience prejudice, try India. I have never seen such economic and social divides anywhere in the world.

[Eye_Spy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Those who want to leave this country should be encouraged to do so. As quickly as possible. And if you really want to experience prejudice, try India. I have never seen such economic and social divides anywhere in the world.

yes agreed, that caste system is the worst for prejudice in the world IMHO.

[Niamh.]

lmao, what do you mean by unfortunately we don't live in the British empire??? You mean when you had invaded other countries?????

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

lmao, what do you mean by unfortunately we don't live in the British empire??? You mean when you had invaded other countries?????

The Empire built the infrastructure of many countries, like India for example, and gave them a system of government. I'm not saying the Empire was a good thing... it wasn't. But although it took a lot, it gave back a little. Today's Britain is very different. Today we have a Commonwealth of countries consisting mainly of ex-Empire nations. People don't have to be members, but many do because it's beneficial to them. Mozambique, for example, was never part of the British Empire but chooses to be a part of the Commonwealth.

An Indian man once said to me, "Thank God it was the British who took India. It could have been France - or even worse - Germany!" If it hadn't been Britain back then, it would have been someone else. Many European countries had empires, but they don't feel the need to continuously beat themselves up about it because it happened in the different generation.

[Eye_Spy]

Originally Posted by Livia

The Empire built the infrastructure of many countries, like India for example, and gave them a system of government. I'm not saying the Empire was a good thing... it wasn't. But although it took a lot, it gave back a little. Today's Britain is very different. Today we have a Commonwealth of countries consisting mainly of ex-Empire nations. People don't have to be members, but many do because it's beneficial to them. Mozambique, for example, was never part of the British Empire but chooses to be a part of the Commonwealth.

An Indian man once said to me, "Thank God it was the British who took India. It could have been France - or even worse - Germany!" If it hadn't been Britain back then, it would have been someone else. Many European countries had empires, but they don't feel the need to continuously beat themselves up about it because it happened in the different generation.

yes thank god britain was the best of the worst invaders. hardly a pat on the back of endorsements there. That we 'britain' took so much and gave back so little, reveals it all. pretty disgusting really.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Eye_Spy

yes thank god britain was the best of the worst invaders. hardly a pat on the back of endorsements there. That we 'britain' took so much and gave back so little, reveals it all. pretty disgusting really.

This is worthy of a graduate from the John James School of Harrassment and Ill-informed Tautology, or S.H.I.T.

[Eye_Spy]

Originally Posted by angus58

This is worthy of a graduate from the John James School of Harrassment and Ill-informed Tautology, or S.H.I.T.

yes bring back the days of empire eh? you must be from Cannot Understand Nothing Told, or C.U.N.T

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by Eye_Spy

yes thank god britain was the best of the worst invaders. hardly a pat on the back of endorsements there. That we 'britain' took so much and gave back so little, reveals it all. pretty disgusting really.

Wrong.
Britain didn't invade (all) these places and did one helluva amazing job governing many of these places to the great benefit of those who lived there were were (and still are) entirely happy it happened.

People talk about 'racism' and I just cringe to think of what this world would be like had the UK (and some others) not gone about colonizing the way they did. The disparity in this planet would be so shocking as to have us entirely different 'worlds' of humans on a scale making Rome seem egalitarian.

Can you comb through centuries of millions of people over thousands of regions and find some bad examples:
Yes.
That doesn't change what was overall a massively beneficial concept to start with and ultimately prove excellent for most people involved.

Doesn't matter much now anyways. Britain (as we knew it) will be gone soon. Its own liberal white guilty hand is killing itself. Nobody is asking for it either.
Don't worry, Muslims are here to take over. You think you regret 'discrimination' and 'racism' now.. they will show you what REAL discrimination and racism is really all about lol

Whether you gave them good infrastructure or not does not justify taking a country that doesn't want to be taken, with all due respect. I'm sure if ye still had control of the republic of Ireland our roads would be better too but I'd rather be Irish tbh.

Uh no. Back up a little. You HAVE ROADS and cars and electricity and are a modern country and not a 'third world' because Great Britain DID put that in place for you.
That is STILL the reason why you are a modern European country because if you were moved over to Greenland you'd be irrelevant and quickly degenerate into a sort of frozen Tongo requiring international aid to keep afloat.

[StGeorge]

Originally Posted by Eye_Spy

yes thank god britain was the best of the worst invaders. hardly a pat on the back of endorsements there. That we 'britain' took so much and gave back so little, reveals it all. pretty disgusting really.

Er....i think you need to get a grip.

I would like to point out, to the less fortunate on here who seem to have missed out on an education, that Britain was invaded long before it started invading others.
I refuse to apologise because my ancestors were better at kicking arse than others....I WASNT AROUND BACK THEN. And when the Italians, French, Germans, Scandinavians etc apologise for invading Britain....then a serious dialogue may be achieved. Until then i'll let their ancient conquests go as i can understand that it has nothing to do with the modern day incumbents of those countries.

As for our modern invasions....correct me if im wrong, but Iraq was invaded by a UN backed force initially due to Iraq illegally invading a sovereign country, Kuwait. The subsequent invasion was after successive attempts to bring the Iraqi regime back to the rule of international law and not mass murder Kurds, Shiites etc.
And the Afghan invasion was perhaps due in main to a little event that happened in NY 09.11.2001.

100% behind both current wars.

[Eye_Spy]

Originally Posted by StGeorge

Er....i think you need to get a grip.


.
And the Afghan invasion was perhaps due in main to a little event that happened in NY 09.11.2001.

100% behind both current wars.

OMG ignorance at its most heinious, what has afghanistan or iraq got to do with 9/11? the bombers we are led to believe were saudis werent they? it was amazing though that 12 of the 19 named hijackers turned up alive and well according to mainstream media, LOL, wonder how they managed that?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

The Empire built the infrastructure of many countries, like India for example, and gave them a system of government. I'm not saying the Empire was a good thing... it wasn't. But although it took a lot, it gave back a little. Today's Britain is very different. Today we have a Commonwealth of countries consisting mainly of ex-Empire nations. People don't have to be members, but many do because it's beneficial to them. Mozambique, for example, was never part of the British Empire but chooses to be a part of the Commonwealth.

An Indian man once said to me, "Thank God it was the British who took India. It could have been France - or even worse - Germany!" If it hadn't been Britain back then, it would have been someone else. Many European countries had empires, but they don't feel the need to continuously beat themselves up about it because it happened in the different generation.

Whether you gave them good infrastructure or not does not justify taking a country that doesn't want to be taken, with all due respect. I'm sure if ye still had control of the republic of Ireland our roads would be better too but I'd rather be Irish tbh.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

Whether you gave them good infrastructure or not does not justify taking a country that doesn't want to be taken, with all due respect. I'm sure if ye still had control of the republic of Ireland our roads would be better too but I'd rather be Irish tbh.

Even if the Republic Of ireland was still part of the UK you would still be Irish, just like the Taffs are still Welsh and the jocks are still Scottish. (Whether we like it or not).

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Even if the Republic Of ireland was still part of the UK you would still be Irish, just like the Taffs are still Welsh and the jocks are still Scottish. (Whether we like it or not).

We would be British also though and it's not meant disrespectfully but I don't want to be British, just Irish is fine.

[crit]

If the UK is such a terrible place why do people keep trying to come here to live, legally or illegally?

[StGeorge]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

Whether you gave them good infrastructure or not does not justify taking a country that doesn't want to be taken, with all due respect. I'm sure if ye still had control of the republic of Ireland our roads would be better too but I'd rather be Irish tbh.

Very noble Niam, but unfortunately even the Irish are not exempt from a little bit of holiday invading themselves....The Scots were an Irish tribe that invaded "Pictland" and did a bit of re-educating the local populace to the Scots way of thinking. Hence you now have Scotland and Scots, and the Picts have been assimilated (or worse).

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by StGeorge

Very noble Niam, but unfortunately even the Irish are not exempt from a little bit of holiday invading themselves....The Scots were an Irish tribe that invaded "Pictland" and did a bit of re-educating the local populace to the Scots way of thinking. Hence you now have Scotland and Scots, and the Picts have been assimilated (or worse).

Niamh has conveniently forgotten that while the British were busing making the Empire and invading all those poor countries, Irishmen joined up locally raised regiments of the British Army voluntarily. Hence such famous and historic names Royal Irish Dragoon Guards, 8th King's Royal Irish Hussars,
Irish Guards. Queen's Royal Irish Hussars, Royal Irish Artillery, Royal Irish Lancers, Royal Irish Rangers, Connaught Rangers, Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers,
Prince of Wales's Leinster Regiment, North Irish Horse, Royal Dublin Fusiliers
Royal Irish Fusiliers, Royal Irish Regiment (1684-1922) Royal Ulster Rifles,
Royal Munster Fusiliers, South Irish Horse.

[crit]

Originally Posted by StGeorge

Very noble Niam, but unfortunately even the Irish are not exempt from a little bit of holiday invading themselves....The Scots were an Irish tribe that invaded "Pictland" and did a bit of re-educating the local populace to the Scots way of thinking. Hence you now have Scotland and Scots, and the Picts have been assimilated (or worse).

Dont forget the Irish invasions of Wales and how the Irish took the Welsh as slaves. St Patrick himself Welsh was made a slave by the irish.


Slavery is a part of most nations history, nothing to be proud of but nobody can use it as a stick to beat other nations with as it was universal practice for everyone at one time or another.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Patrick

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

lmao, what do you mean by unfortunately we don't live in the British empire??? You mean when you had invaded other countries?????

You mean we, dont you?