[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Eye_Spy

army willing to pursue international justice??!! is that a joke? its the army killing and bombing millions of innocent people which is causing so many problems, wake up sonny.

Killing and bombing millions? You obviously know something we dont care to share

Originally Posted by Eye_Spy

well after bombing the crap out of their countries, we do take them in, promise to rebuild their countries and send them back. but lets not talk about the bombing, killing and maiming millions of innocent people on here eh? lets just whip up frenzies talking about immigrants and benefits.

Pray tell which countries have we bombed the crap out of? Do you have any proof of this taking in, rebuilding and enforced repratriation program? Seems someone else is a little bit guilty of whipping up frenzies.

[LadyNay]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

wtf are you on about?


explain what you mean rather than make silly sweeping statements

I agree!! Sweeping statements are the crux of internet forum debates, are they not? I personally don't like to give an opinion unless I'm informed on it. And that's one of the things that wind me up about certain FM. Where the hell do they get their information?

My opinion is that I'm extremely privilaged to live in this country. It's one of the best countries in the WORLD to live in. Nostalgia is always an easy feeling to identify with & people always harp on about days gone by ... and the people in those days probably said the same things.

If people on this forum put half as much effort into researching their ideas than they do into sitting and arguing about them over the internet to strangers, I garuntee they'd feel more content.

[Eye_Spy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Bombing them? What, you mean like the refugees from Etheopia that we all gave money to feed a couple of years ago? Or Rwanda, where our country sent troops to stop the militia there cutting the arms off of children? Or maybe Nigeria? We've a lot of refugees from Nigeria... no bombing there though. I think you'll find that most people who come to this country are economic refugees.

The problem with accepting so many refugees into the UK is that they are always placed in communities who are already economically disadvantaged. Maybe we should build a few reception centres in the more well-to-do areas. See how quickly the rules change.

i know we havant bombed everybody yet, but try kosovo, iraq and afghanistan for starters, have you forgottenthat war criminal and his cronies saying when we haverebuilt iraq we will send them back, until then we have to make them welcome and look after them?

when we give them money there are conditions usually, ie we send the company to mine copper and take your resources for the UK, such as happened in chile, i can give you a thousand examples, or we give you money to buy your vote in the UN so we can bomb some other defenseless 3rd world country.

perhaps if we stopped giving the banks trillions and stopped funding war to the tune of trillions, there would be enough wealth for everyone?

i think you will find nigeria has a lot of mineral wealth there, guess whose contries companies are in there mining the wealth for themselves?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

lmao, what do you mean by unfortunately we don't live in the British empire??? You mean when you had invaded other countries?????

The Empire built the infrastructure of many countries, like India for example, and gave them a system of government. I'm not saying the Empire was a good thing... it wasn't. But although it took a lot, it gave back a little. Today's Britain is very different. Today we have a Commonwealth of countries consisting mainly of ex-Empire nations. People don't have to be members, but many do because it's beneficial to them. Mozambique, for example, was never part of the British Empire but chooses to be a part of the Commonwealth.

An Indian man once said to me, "Thank God it was the British who took India. It could have been France - or even worse - Germany!" If it hadn't been Britain back then, it would have been someone else. Many European countries had empires, but they don't feel the need to continuously beat themselves up about it because it happened in the different generation.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Eye_Spy

i know we havant bombed everybody yet.... etc. etc. etc...

Sorry, I'm not getting into this with you. Your post shows an almost super-human lack of understanding and comprehension. You blame Britain for everything, like we're the baddies and every other country is blameless. I can't debate with someone so blinkered.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Eye_Spy

well after bombing the crap out of their countries, we do take them in, promise to rebuild their countries and send them back. but lets not talk about the bombing, killing and maiming millions of innocent people on here eh? lets just whip up frenzies talking about immigrants and benefits.

Instead of just presenting your opinions as fait accomplis, why not engage in some proper debate with facts and figures and drop the patronising slurs?

There is still a deafening silence whilst I wait for a list of countries (or even one) that has a better record on immigration than Britain. We often have to clean up the mess of other western countries, who take a much harder and less sympathetic line towards people they have disenfranchised. And you need to get your wild accusations in synchronisation with actual facts; Britain is not responsible for all the ills of the world, but we do far more than our fair share in terms of aid and military support for oppressed countries.
Soldiers who serve in our armed forces do NOT make military decisions - that is for the politicians. Or do you suggest we scrap our armed forces altogether, lie down and not fight against oppression and blind hatred?

You are the one "whipping up frenzies", frothing at the mouth with wild accusations as to how Britain is bombing the crap out of other countries (that would be for no reason I suppose?). Where is the responsibility of other western nations or is all your vitriol just reserved for Britain? Seriously we should be turning our attentions to the hate filled enemies WITHIN Britain; they are far more dangerous than any far flung ones.

[Eye_Spy]

Originally Posted by Livia

The Empire built the infrastructure of many countries, like India for example, and gave them a system of government. I'm not saying the Empire was a good thing... it wasn't. But although it took a lot, it gave back a little. Today's Britain is very different. Today we have a Commonwealth of countries consisting mainly of ex-Empire nations. People don't have to be members, but many do because it's beneficial to them. Mozambique, for example, was never part of the British Empire but chooses to be a part of the Commonwealth.

An Indian man once said to me, "Thank God it was the British who took India. It could have been France - or even worse - Germany!" If it hadn't been Britain back then, it would have been someone else. Many European countries had empires, but they don't feel the need to continuously beat themselves up about it because it happened in the different generation.

yes thank god britain was the best of the worst invaders. hardly a pat on the back of endorsements there. That we 'britain' took so much and gave back so little, reveals it all. pretty disgusting really.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

lmao, what do you mean by unfortunately we don't live in the British empire??? You mean when you had invaded other countries?????

You mean we, dont you?

[Eye_Spy]

Originally Posted by angus58

Instead of just presenting your opinions as fait accomplis, why not engage in some proper debate with facts and figures and drop the patronising slurs?

There is still a deafening silence whilst I wait for a list of countries (or even one) that has a better record on immigration than Britain. We often have to clean up the mess of other western countries, who take a much harder and less sympathetic line towards people they have disenfranchised. And you need to get your wild accusations in synchronisation with actual facts; Britain is not responsible for all the ills of the world, but we do far more than our fair share in terms of aid and military support for oppressed countries.
Soldiers who serve in our armed forces do NOT make military decisions - that is for the politicians. Or do you suggest we scrap our armed forces altogether, lie down and not fight against oppression and blind hatred?

You are the one "whipping up frenzies", frothing at the mouth with wild accusations as to how Britain is bombing the crap out of other countries (that would be for no reason I suppose?). Where is the responsibility of other western nations or is all your vitriol just reserved for Britain? Seriously we should be turning our attentions to the hate filled enemies WITHIN Britain; they are far more dangerous than any far flung ones.

its you claiming we have the best record on immigrants, yet i see no figures from you in such claims.

the army is there to defend britain isant it, now correct me if i am wrong but i cannot remember iraq invading britain. thats what the ministry of defense is isant it, to defend britain, otherwise it would be called the ministry of attack.

i dont have to whip anything up, we have bombed the crap out of kosovo, iraq and afghanistan havant we?

of course we supply arms to 3rd world dictators such as mugabe in the past for example, why would that be einstein?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by angus58

Instead of just presenting your opinions as fait accomplis, why not engage in some proper debate with facts and figures and drop the patronising slurs?

There is still a deafening silence whilst I wait for a list of countries (or even one) that has a better record on immigration than Britain. We often have to clean up the mess of other western countries, who take a much harder and less sympathetic line towards people they have disenfranchised. And you need to get your wild accusations in synchronisation with actual facts; Britain is not responsible for all the ills of the world, but we do far more than our fair share in terms of aid and military support for oppressed countries.
Soldiers who serve in our armed forces do NOT make military decisions - that is for the politicians. Or do you suggest we scrap our armed forces altogether, lie down and not fight against oppression and blind hatred?

You are the one "whipping up frenzies", frothing at the mouth with wild accusations as to how Britain is bombing the crap out of other countries (that would be for no reason I suppose?). Where is the responsibility of other western nations or is all your vitriol just reserved for Britain? Seriously we should be turning our attentions to the hate filled enemies WITHIN Britain; they are far more dangerous than any far flung ones.

I'm going to save myself some time and just start tacking "I agree" on the end of your posts LOL...

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Eye_Spy

yes thank god britain was the best of the worst invaders. hardly a pat on the back of endorsements there. That we 'britain' took so much and gave back so little, reveals it all. pretty disgusting really.

This is worthy of a graduate from the John James School of Harrassment and Ill-informed Tautology, or S.H.I.T.

[Eye_Spy]

Originally Posted by angus58

This is worthy of a graduate from the John James School of Harrassment and Ill-informed Tautology, or S.H.I.T.

yes bring back the days of empire eh? you must be from Cannot Understand Nothing Told, or C.U.N.T

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Eye_Spy

its you claiming we have the best record on immigrants, yet i see no figures from you in such claims.

the army is there to defend britain isant it, now correct me if i am wrong but i cannot remember iraq invading britain. thats what the ministry of defense is isant it, to defend britain, otherwise it would be called the ministry of attack.

i dont have to whip anything up, we have bombed the crap out of kosovo, iraq and afghanistan havant we?
of course we supply arms to 3rd world dictators such as mugabe in the past for example, why would that be einstein?

Err no we havent, UK air strikes were used against artillery positions in countries that were the Former Republic of Yugoslavia, yes we used offensive airstrikes in both Iraq and Afghanistan, the UK air force only has two aircraft used in a ground attack role, neither is particularly suited to carpet bombing etc.

[Eye_Spy]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Err no we havent, UK air strikes were used against artillery positions in countries that were the Former Republic of Yugoslavia, Iraq and Afghanistan, the UK air force only has two aircraft used in a ground attack role, neither is particualr suited to carpet bombing etc.

LOl are you from the disinformation office?

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Eye_Spy

LOl are you from the disinformation office?

No I thought that was your job.

[Jamietwo]

I think the British in general are fairly friendly emotional people who are on the side of the underdog. If you think about some of the BB winners like Bez or Nadia for eg. One of the problems I percieve it that politics in the west have become little more than administrating capitalist excesses....the banks, economy etc. USA seems to be in the lead with this trend, closely followed by UK , while countries like Greece are still struggling to fight it, but they will be broken in like we have in time. This goes back to the Thatcher/Reagan years and as Thatcher said "there is no such thing as society", the rich poor divide and crime go hand in hand and immigration suits greedy entrepenures with cheap labour, while the working classes have to deal with the social problems. You don't find large immigrant communities in green belt Surrey for eg. It's a horrible mess. You may find a sense of freedom, civilsation and culture in meditteranean countries still, for a while. But no amount of heart felt people power can reverse the trend of capitalism. Islamic exremism/terrorism in part is a reaction to this trend as more and more pressure is put on those nations that are religious non-secular...Personally I prefer a secular society where religion is seperate from politics, but what we have is money led politics , ie of little philosophical or social importance, and it's in these areas we are suffering the most. I don't think there is anything we can do to reverse this trend, I believe it is going to get much much worse before there is any hope at all of a change in direction...we will probaly see a bigger divide in police/military v's people and at it's core is capitalism.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

The Empire built the infrastructure of many countries, like India for example, and gave them a system of government. I'm not saying the Empire was a good thing... it wasn't. But although it took a lot, it gave back a little. Today's Britain is very different. Today we have a Commonwealth of countries consisting mainly of ex-Empire nations. People don't have to be members, but many do because it's beneficial to them. Mozambique, for example, was never part of the British Empire but chooses to be a part of the Commonwealth.

An Indian man once said to me, "Thank God it was the British who took India. It could have been France - or even worse - Germany!" If it hadn't been Britain back then, it would have been someone else. Many European countries had empires, but they don't feel the need to continuously beat themselves up about it because it happened in the different generation.

Whether you gave them good infrastructure or not does not justify taking a country that doesn't want to be taken, with all due respect. I'm sure if ye still had control of the republic of Ireland our roads would be better too but I'd rather be Irish tbh.

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by Eye_Spy

yes thank god britain was the best of the worst invaders. hardly a pat on the back of endorsements there. That we 'britain' took so much and gave back so little, reveals it all. pretty disgusting really.

Wrong.
Britain didn't invade (all) these places and did one helluva amazing job governing many of these places to the great benefit of those who lived there were were (and still are) entirely happy it happened.

People talk about 'racism' and I just cringe to think of what this world would be like had the UK (and some others) not gone about colonizing the way they did. The disparity in this planet would be so shocking as to have us entirely different 'worlds' of humans on a scale making Rome seem egalitarian.

Can you comb through centuries of millions of people over thousands of regions and find some bad examples:
Yes.
That doesn't change what was overall a massively beneficial concept to start with and ultimately prove excellent for most people involved.

Doesn't matter much now anyways. Britain (as we knew it) will be gone soon. Its own liberal white guilty hand is killing itself. Nobody is asking for it either.
Don't worry, Muslims are here to take over. You think you regret 'discrimination' and 'racism' now.. they will show you what REAL discrimination and racism is really all about lol

Whether you gave them good infrastructure or not does not justify taking a country that doesn't want to be taken, with all due respect. I'm sure if ye still had control of the republic of Ireland our roads would be better too but I'd rather be Irish tbh.

Uh no. Back up a little. You HAVE ROADS and cars and electricity and are a modern country and not a 'third world' because Great Britain DID put that in place for you.
That is STILL the reason why you are a modern European country because if you were moved over to Greenland you'd be irrelevant and quickly degenerate into a sort of frozen Tongo requiring international aid to keep afloat.

[Eye_Spy]

Originally Posted by Shasown

No I thought that was your job.

here you go http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/foru...eply&p=3531871

small snippet.

At roughly 7pm (GMT) on Wednesday 24th May 1999, NATO forces in the Mediterranean and Europe launched a sustained bombing strike against Yugoslav military targets in retaliation for the Yugoslavian refusal to abide by agreements made the previous year over Kosovo and to stop repression by military force of the Kosovo people, which had already caused thousands of casualties RAF Harriers of No.1 Squadron and Tristar tankers operating from Italian airfields took part in the campaign,

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

Whether you gave them good infrastructure or not does not justify taking a country that doesn't want to be taken, with all due respect. I'm sure if ye still had control of the republic of Ireland our roads would be better too but I'd rather be Irish tbh.

Even if the Republic Of ireland was still part of the UK you would still be Irish, just like the Taffs are still Welsh and the jocks are still Scottish. (Whether we like it or not).

[Niamh.]

This argument should probably be moved to serious debates or something!

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Even if the Republic Of ireland was still part of the UK you would still be Irish, just like the Taffs are still Welsh and the jocks are still Scottish. (Whether we like it or not).

We would be British also though and it's not meant disrespectfully but I don't want to be British, just Irish is fine.

[crit]

If the UK is such a terrible place why do people keep trying to come here to live, legally or illegally?

[Eye_Spy]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

This argument should probably be moved to serious debates or something!

yes into the all immigrants out and support your local BNP dustbin where it belongs. thats what happens when people try to stir up frenzies against immigrants and bomb all the mothers etc.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Eye_Spy

its you claiming we have the best record on immigrants, yet i see no figures from you in such claims.

the army is there to defend britain isant it, now correct me if i am wrong but i cannot remember iraq invading britain. thats what the ministry of defense is isant it, to defend britain, otherwise it would be called the ministry of attack.

i dont have to whip anything up, we have bombed the crap out of kosovo, iraq and afghanistan havant we?

of course we supply arms to 3rd world dictators such as mugabe in the past for example, why would that be einstein?

I'm not "claiming" anything - the statistics are well documented and there for anyone to see, if they actually want the truth and not their own fantasies. You do know how to google don't you?

But at least in this post, I can spot some semblance of an argument emerging from your ramblings- the fact that our armed forces are deployed to fight oppressive regimes in other parts of the world and thereby bring peace and liberty to those countries, when in fact they should be in existence to merely defend our own borders?

Is that your grievance? There is already a thread on this in "Serious Debates" about whether Britain should be the policeman of the world, and there is not a lot of consensus for turning a blind eye and ignoring the plight of people living under cruel dictatorships.

I repeat, don't blame the servicemen and women, blame the politicians, and make your feelings known via the ballot box, since Britain is still a democracy, last time I looked.