[rk3388]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

Atheism does not deserve respect. Probably my biggest gripe against it is it targets children who are the most vulnerable members of society. It deserves to be mocked.

^THIS.
I do respect everyone and there beliefs as i hope they do to me
BUT i think atheism does not deserve respect.
I mean who are you to go up to people and tell them what they believe in isnt true.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by rk3388

^THIS.
I do respect everyone and there beliefs as i hope they do to me
BUT i think atheism does not deserve respect.
I mean who are you to go up to people and tell them what they believe in isnt true.

Not all atheists do that.

The ones that do are preaching in a similar fashion to the annoying Religiotards who do it all the time.

I see no difference. You are an absoloute hypocrite for respecting some beliefs but not others.

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by Stu

I see no difference. You are an absoloute hypocrite for respecting some beliefs but not others.

Well if your presumption was correct and there is no difference then YOU would be a hypocrite for having different level of respect.

Then again I don't think you practice what you preach. I suspect you have a lot of respect for someone who (going to guesstimate) someone who was raised in a strict fundamentalist Christian home but somewhere in University fell into Rastafarianism... but a kind of 'Agnosticism',
versus,
a hardcore Scientologist.
I am going to guess you have have a healthy level of respect for the former and you have little respect for the latter?

Anyways, I do have varying levels of respect for whatever belief systems and worldviews.
High on my list would be Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, and then much lower would be Islam,
and,
then I have very little respect for Scientology, Mormonism,
but,
Way way at the bottom is the belief system that is nearly by 'definition' the stupidest most illogical unreasonable belief system on the planet and that is Atheism.
Naturalistic Atheism. I mean this is a belief based on what could actually be a 'childrens first lesson' on illogical statements:
From Nothing came Something.

I mean seriously, if you had to stay up all night inventing the 'stupidest thing ever said' and hired professional writers and philosophers you would eventually come up with:
Something came from Nothing.

The Dictionary could use Atheism as an example near 'Stupid'. It is such a stupid belief system it makes Scientology slightly credible. That is amazing.

So yes I do have various degrees of respect but that is speaking to the belief system. Not the person themselves.
It is true that most Atheists are shltheads, bitter apples and dicks,
but,
I'm also aware that many of them are just scared or willfully ignorant or just naive enough like we all are. In a very human way.
For them, 'naturalistic evolutionism' is a comforting 'fairie tale for adults' that they need to help them get through life. A 'crutch' if you will. or a 'blinder' helping them avoid facing the scary.. actually terrifying idea of an afterlife and more specifically a 'Maker' whom they might just need to answer to.
I can respect that person. Also they may be quite good at many other things.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

Well if your presumption was correct and there is no difference then YOU would be a hypocrite for having different level of respect.

Not at all. I'm the one who has been giving the argument that no belief system is obligated respect - therefore it is up to me to choose what to respect.

rk3388 said on the other hand, and I quote, 'I do respect everyone and their beliefs' but then goes on to say Atheism he has no respect for.

So yeah. I won't even bother trying to tackle the rest Sailor Boy. You're far, far from the grasp of reality and I wouldn't ever bother trying to reason with you.

[BB_Eye]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

Well if your presumption was correct and there is no difference then YOU would be a hypocrite for having different level of respect.

Then again I don't think you practice what you preach. I suspect you have a lot of respect for someone who (going to guesstimate) someone who was raised in a strict fundamentalist Christian home but somewhere in University fell into Rastafarianism... but a kind of 'Agnosticism',
versus,
a hardcore Scientologist.
I am going to guess you have have a healthy level of respect for the former and you have little respect for the latter?

Anyways, I do have varying levels of respect for whatever belief systems and worldviews.
High on my list would be Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, and then much lower would be Islam,
and,
then I have very little respect for Scientology, Mormonism,
but,
Way way at the bottom is the belief system that is nearly by 'definition' the stupidest most illogical unreasonable belief system on the planet and that is Atheism.
Naturalistic Atheism. I mean this is a belief based on what could actually be a 'childrens first lesson' on illogical statements:
From Nothing came Something.

Spoken like a theologian. Have you never stopped to consider these two things? That since mass and energy can only be converted into energy and vice versa, that the beginning of the universe was completely spontaneous and that this fundamental physical property of all matter and energy mean that no causal relationship between matter and a non-corporeal deity is even possible? Also since time is finite (and not even completely linear as we've discovered in the past century), the Big Bang wasn't an event that occured somewhere along some abstract timeline of infinity, but in fact was the beginning full stop? It's emininently logical

Originally Posted by ElProximo

I mean seriously, if you had to stay up all night inventing the 'stupidest thing ever said' and hired professional writers and philosophers you would eventually come up with:
Something came from Nothing.

The Dictionary could use Atheism as an example near 'Stupid'. It is such a stupid belief system it makes Scientology slightly credible. That is amazing.

So yes I do have various degrees of respect but that is speaking to the belief system. Not the person themselves.
It is true that most Atheists are shltheads, bitter apples and dicks,
but,
I'm also aware that many of them are just scared or willfully ignorant or just naive enough like we all are. In a very human way.
For them, 'naturalistic evolutionism' is a comforting 'fairie tale for adults' that they need to help them get through life. A 'crutch' if you will. or a 'blinder' helping them avoid facing the scary.. actually terrifying idea of an afterlife and more specifically a 'Maker' whom they might just need to answer to.
I can respect that person. Also they may be quite good at many other things.

What is this born-again protestant fixation with trying to discredit the natural sciences? Even Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians know better and have done for a long time. Not even Augustine and the earlier Church fathers took the Creation story literally and we are talking about a man who ushered in the dark ages. I'm glad you say you respect such people (after insisting over 9000 times that you didn't, but then consistency is not really your strong point), otherwise there wouldn't be many people left to respect.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by rk3388

BUT i think atheism does not deserve respect.
I mean who are you to go up to people and tell them what they believe in isnt true.

it's called opinion

wasn't even aware atheism was actually a religion. So I am religious after all?

damn

[joeysteele]

In the past Religion was forced onto Children in Schools,in one faith,the Children were even taught by Nuns. that has all changed in recent times, Religion is still taught obviously in faith schools but in many others it is more a topic than a main subject.

The thing is surely it is Parents who allow their Children to have this instruction, so while it's true that some schools and churches do flood Children with religion,it is supported by the Parents too.

We learn more from others in life, it's where I believe my best experiences will come from and from where I will learn most,maybe its time for all Church hierarchy and Parents to step back and not subject their Children to religious teaching of any format and as the grow and get older,let them make the decision as to if they wish to learn about it themselves.

I can't ever see that day coming though.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

religion-yes

People that use religion to twist for their benefit and use to justify killing-no

[MTVN]

In a way yes, I wouldnt walk into a Church and piss on the altar and I think people's right to be religous deserves respect. But as a concept it doesnt inherently deserve respect no

[Glenn.]

No.

Nice controversial reply.




JK. Of course it deserves respect, like all other things.


Edit. Although people should respect what people believe in, I don't condone religion being thrust upon children.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Glenn

No.

Nice controversial reply.




JK. Of course it deserves respect, like all other things.


Edit. Although people should respect what people believe in, I don't condone religion being thrust upon children.

Why does it deserve respect? What if you feel it's doctrines don't respect you? Why do 'all other things' deserve respect? Does this extend to homophobia and racism? What if they fit into someones 'beliefs'?

[InOne]

No it does not deserve respect But I'm not the type to tell an 84 year who goes to mass or anything they're wrong. Religion is not a big part of my life, I hardly ever think about it.

[joeysteele]

Well I have never got this devil and hell thing if you are bad. According to the writings,the devil acts against God or a God, so what one earth would the devil,if it exists, want to punish people for being bad for.Why would a devil take any soul, spirit or whatever and in a place like hell punish it for all eternity for being bad and annoying to or disobeying God or a God.
I have never seen any even basic common sense to that argument.

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Well I have never got this devil and hell thing if you are bad. According to the writings,the devil acts against God or a God, so what one earth would the devil,if it exists, want to punish people for being bad for.Why would a devil take any soul, spirit or whatever and in a place like hell punish it for all eternity for being bad and annoying to or disobeying God or a God.
I have never seen any even basic common sense to that argument.

You don't see the basic common sense in that?
The Devil hates God. God loves his children. The Devil wants to take God's children and torture them. To make God suffer. To hurt God. To steal from God.

I mean it seems to me that would make sense in it's own evil horrifying way.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

You don't see the basic common sense in that?
The Devil hates God. God loves his children. The Devil wants to take God's children and torture them. To make God suffer. To hurt God. To steal from God.

I mean it seems to me that would make sense in it's own evil horrifying way.

I have to admit, I've never thought of it that way.That would make more sense.

[keithafc]

Have more respect for spiritualism than i do mainstream religions but thats just me.

[Judas]

Of course it does, it is plan disrespectfull to openly disrespect someones belief system or culture. Anyone who tries to justify otherwise is wrong.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Judas

Of course it does, it is plan disrespectfull to openly disrespect someones belief system or culture. Anyone who tries to justify otherwise is wrong.

Does that extend to those glorious cultures and belief systems that include hanging homosexuals and stoning women to death?

[Livia]

I respect people who deserve respect, regardless of their religion. What religion people follow is probably the last question I would think to ask anyone.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

I respect people who deserve respect, regardless of their religion. What religion people follow is probably the last question I would think to ask anyone.

I 100% agree with this.

[Judas]

Originally Posted by Stu

Does that extend to those glorious cultures and belief systems that include hanging homosexuals and stoning women to death?

This is a tricky issue but obviously a very important one, and when reading what I respond you have to take into account we are both from westernised backgrounds.

The religion still needs respecting; but the extremist practises do not. I feel we must respect all religions - but not neccesarily the practises that have grown alongside it and the culture. Maybe I should of said all beliefs need respecting - and within your belief you must have some kind of respect for others and their welfare.

Again I understand religion isn't exactally known for being inclusive - I just feel they must continue to adapt to the world we live in, and it's too simple to simply slam all religons as institutions full of hate and homophobia.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Judas

This is a tricky issue but obviously a very important one, and when reading what I respond you have to take into account we are both from westernised backgrounds.

The religion still needs respecting; but the extremist practises do not. I feel we must respect all religions - but not neccesarily the practises that have grown alongside it and the culture. Maybe I should of said all beliefs need respecting - and within your belief you must have some kind of respect for others and their welfare.

Again I understand religion isn't exactally known for being inclusive - I just feel they must continue to adapt to the world we live in, and it's too simple to simply slam all religons as institutions full of hate and homophobia.

I'm not slamming all religions as institutions full of hate and homophobia but you cannot just cherry pick which bits are the religion and which bits are the laws and acts you don't like which as a sudden concequence you see fit to seperate from the religion.

Some people are influenced by the message of Jesus to help others. I respect that. Some people are influenced by the message of the Koran to stone adulteresses to death. I don't respect that. It all comes from belief however.

It's not extremist in those countries. They have laws for it. It's seen as fairly normal. Those laws are directly based on their interpretation of the Koran. You can't simply allow for exceptions in the 'respect others beliefs' argument just because it's reached the point where you don't like something.

We all pick and choose what to respect even if we say otherwise and that's absoloutely fine. We are, apparently, highly evolved, cognitive creatures capable of making rational judgement after all.

The idea that something deserves automatic respect just because it is a religious belief is quite frankly absurd. Nothing seperates Christian missionaries, Rastafari ganja smokers, and Buddhist meditators from suicide bombers and beheaders of Western journalists as far as beliefs go. They each have a belief that they call their own and believe in. They all qualify for being religious beliefs.

They don't all qualify for my respect.

[Lee.]

Live and let live, that's what I say.

I have no religion myself, but if people feel better within themselves by attending church or paraying to a god or whatever, then so be it

[Crimson Dynamo]

The problem with religion in the UK is the fact that it has invaded schools and curriculum's as well as politics.

You cannot live and let live when the above scandal is in operation.

[BB_Eye]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

The problem with religion in the UK is the fact that it has invaded schools and curriculum's as well as politics.

You cannot live and let live when the above scandal is in operation.

Although the flipside to this austerity budget debacle is no more free bus passes for faith school children.