[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

So if they had kids, would they be took off them and the partner not told why? Or would they just allow the kids to remain with a killer

I'm not sure Vicky. In such a case as this: I would think there would be conditions (and pretty strict ones) in respect of children - whether the partner's existing ones - or whether starting a family may be allowed?

Actually...that's a pretty interesting spin off you've put up..... you've got me wondering about that side now.

[Vicky.]

Comes down to...again...who has more rights. Kids or killers I guess.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Comes down to...again...who has more rights. Kids or killers I guess.

Victims don't have rights in the UK. Only the flipping abusers and criminals.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by Stu

Just throw him in a nice, clean cell with three solid meals and a half hour stroll in a concrete yard a day for the rest of his life.

It's more than enough punishment. He will have god knows how many years to slowly rot away in agonising, torturous, sanitised boredom. Don't ever let him out and just reduce him to a number. It's a cheaper death penalty without having blood on our hands. I do not think it's healthy for a nation to legislate murder no matter what the circumstances. I know it's dissapointing for the legion of tabloid gobblers totally unaffected by it who want something to go with their Sky News and grim convorsations because the soaps don't start till' seven.

Sounds good to me.

Originally Posted by Jordan.

I don't agree with new identities at all. I don't care how reformed someone may claim to be they should be made to live with their actions, especially in this case where a whole life has been taken away before it even properly started. Why should he get his back after a few lousy years? Its a complete joke.

Yes, exactly.

Originally Posted by MTVN

Well there is evidence that rehabilitation can be successful, and if we ever want to let any prisoners out of jail and have them integrate back into society then the process is essential, we cant keep everyone in jail if it goes against strong evidence of rehabilitation in fear of recidivism.

Pyramid - I'm off out now so I'll try and reply to your post later

Two things. First, I firmly believe, and I think we've discussed this before, that some people are just rotten and without empathy and out of control and will NEVER be rehabilitated to a sufficient level to safely allow them access to potential victims.
Second, even if it were possible to rehabilitate someone who does something like this, they don't deserve it. Back to Stu's suggestion, I think.

[Pyramid*]

[QUOTE=Dezzy;4330195]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

Two things. First, I firmly believe, and I think we've discussed this before, that some people are just rotten and without empathy and out of control and will NEVER be rehabilitated to a sufficient level to safely allow them access to potential victims.

Second, even if it were possible to rehabilitate someone who does something like this, they don't deserve it. Back to Stu's suggestion, I think.

Hi Pats. Cannot agree more - especially given the latest new Jon Venables - if anyone needs proof that some people are out of control and will never be rehabilitated - even when that rehabilitation starts at a very young and very impressionable age: when they are not meant to be 'set in their way'....... JV is proof of that.

I know we have very differing views on keeping them in prison etc - but as far as protecting the public from such people, I'm 100% in agreeance with you on this one.

[Harry!]

He should NOT be entitled to a new identity, what he did to poor Peter was wrong and deserves to be in prison for much longer then that. Our system is so wrong on so many levels.

[Vicky.]

I saw something on tv earlier...about apparently the police are going to name and shame criminals to stop people thinking they are too soft.

Not sure what I saw it on though :/

[Grimnir]

i dont give 2 ****s anymore

the world is a nasty sesspit full of scumbags who defend other scum

so let them all out i say **** it

let them all out and give them TiBB accounts so they can contribute to this forum

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Grimnir

i dont give 2 ****s anymore

the world is a nasty sesspit full of scumbags who defend other scum

so let them all out i say **** it

let them all out and give them TiBB accounts so they can contribute to this forum

Actually - you have said something that has struck a chord. Let out the scum - and when they come knocking on the homes of those who defend them, and abuse the children of those who defend them - let's see if their sympathies still lie where they once did.

After all, new Ids haven't been overly successful in the past - look at Venables and Carr.

[In the Drunk Tank]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Actually - you have said something that has struck a chord. Let out the scum - and when they come knocking on the homes of those who defend them, and abuse the children of those who defend them - let's see if their sympathies still lie where they once did.

After all, new Ids haven't been overly successful in the past - look at Venables and Carr.

As far as I know Maxine Carr has not reoffended (although I'm surprised she was given a new identity in the first place) and you can also look at Mary Bell who killed 2 people when she was 10, was given a new identity and has never reoffended and is now a grandmother. Even Robert Thompson has presumably not reoffended despite him being the one to show least remorse following the death and considering the manner in which their persecution went ahead.

It's all very well to point out cases of recidivism and say rehabilitation can't work but you have to consider cases where it has been successful as well.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Originally Posted by MTVN

As far as I know Maxine Carr has not reoffended (although I'm surprised she was given a new identity in the first place) and you can also look at Mary Bell who killed 2 people when she was 10, was given a new identity and has never reoffended and is now a grandmother. Even Robert Thompson has presumably not reoffended despite him being the one to show least remorse following the death and considering the manner in which their persecution went ahead.

It's all very well to point out cases of recidivism and say rehabilitation can't work but you have to consider cases where it has been successful as well.

I don't think the successful cases are worth the failed ones.

[In the Drunk Tank]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I don't think the successful cases are worth the failed ones.

I see your point but I think the fact that rehabilitation can be sucessful means that times where it has failed is more due to problems with the system itself, as oppose to some people being inherently unreformable, I dont think anyone is past being rehabilitated (unless we're talking about people who are mentally ill, or psychopathic)

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by MTVN

As far as I know Maxine Carr has not reoffended (although I'm surprised she was given a new identity in the first place) and you can also look at Mary Bell who killed 2 people when she was 10, was given a new identity and has never reoffended and is now a grandmother. Even Robert Thompson has presumably not reoffended despite him being the one to show least remorse following the death and considering the manner in which their persecution went ahead.

It's all very well to point out cases of recidivism and say rehabilitation can't work but you have to consider cases where it has been successful as well.

Actually, I don't have to consider cases where it has been successful.

These people do not deserve a 2nd chance. Their victims didn't get a 2nd chance. They should 'do their time' and take their chances on the outside - whether that be successful or not - I care not one jot.

Polish it whatever way you like: my views on this are clear. I do not agree with you.