[Niamh.]

and can I add if I ever take a day off because my kids are sick(which i can't even remember the last time I've had to do that), it comes off my annual leave, I get the same annual leave as everyone else kids or no kids

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

Yeah... maybe.

And maybe not.

It would be supposition to suggest they all mothers dropping their children off are wouldn't it?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You stated that you personally had been affected by being a childless employee put upon to take the workload from your colleagues with children livia.My comment was not a slight on you in any way.

And you suggested that someone who knocks off early "has a work/life balance", whereas I don't have a work/life because I would work till the job's done. And I noted your use of CAPITALS. Very sweeping statement seeing as you know nothing about my life nor my work.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

But then surely they get paid for whatever hours they do work and you get paid for yours?

Unless you're being forced to work overtime and do other people's jobs? In which case check your job description and pay scale.

It's not about getting paid for hours, Marsh. I'm talking about a career here, not a just a job where you get paid by the hour.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It would be supposition to suggest they all mothers dropping their children off are wouldn't it?

You get further and further away from the point.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

It's not about getting paid for hours, Marsh. I'm talking about a career here, not a just a job where you get paid by the hour.

Yes, but you specifically just mentioned working until late whilst the person with children "gets to leave early". Well, surely someone else's position/hours/workload is not relevant to yours?

Everybody, even within the same career, is not going to have the same circumstances or always work the same hours.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Yes, but you specifically just mentioned working until late whilst the person with children "gets to leave early". Well, surely someone else's position/hours/workload is not relevant to yours?

Of course it is! If a job has to be finished by a deadline or if you're working on something particular you can't just swan off. Well, all of you can't just swan off.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

Of course it is! If a job has to be finished by a deadline or if you're working on something particular you can't just swan off. Well, all of you can't just swan off.

The workers with kids are allowed to "just swan off"? I doubt it.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

The workers with kids are allowed to "just swan off"? I doubt it.

It has been my experience. Women with young children have felt that they are more deserving to leave than those of us who don't have kids. You doubt it... that's your prerogative, Marshy, but that's been my experience.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

And you suggested that someone who knocks off early "has a work/life balance", whereas I don't have a work/life because I would work till the job's done. And I noted your use of CAPITALS. Very sweeping statement seeing as you know nothing about my life nor my work.

Yes well as we can't account for the working hours/ practices of every mother working in the UK this is irrelevant.
You suggesting anyone who leaves work before 10 is unproductive is a sweeping statement too.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

You get further and further away from the point.

It's your point livia, you brought the school gates into this...

[lily.]

Originally Posted by Livia

It has been my experience. Women with young children have felt that they are more deserving to leave than those of us who don't have kids. You doubt it... that's your prerogative, Marshy, but that's been my experience.

I think it depends on the kind of work you do. If you work in a high street shop or a small company, it would make less difference, but if you work in a high-stress job with deadlines and demands, then I expect it would have a negative effect on those left behind to carry the weight/responsibility of the task.

I don't have experience of this, because I chose the stay-at-home-mum path, but I am not surprised by your experiences Livia because I do know a lot of people who want to have it all... and that, in my view, is an unrealistic goal.

[Kizzy]

I don't feel it is, we would be setting women back decades if we suggested that they choose between motherhood and a career in any field.

[lily.]

A lot of people would agree with you Kizzy.

My opinion is based mainly on my own life experiences as a mother. I don't think I could have been the kind of parent I wanted to be had I juggled it with a high-flying career.

I am all about the choice though. I love that women have the choice, because what is right for one woman isn't necessarily right for another. That's the important thing.

And, although I think the story in the OP is quite weird, as long as these women don't feel coerced into participating in this scheme, it's all good.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

It has been my experience. Women with young children have felt that they are more deserving to leave than those of us who don't have kids. You doubt it... that's your prerogative, Marshy, but that's been my experience.

Feel they're more deserving or need to leave earlier than you to pick kids up etc?

[Cherie]

All employees unless they are on zero hours contracts will have their hours of work stated in their contract, any hours worked over and above will be overtime and unless it is agreed that employees have to work a certain number of unsocial hours, then they are at liberty to 'swan off" , just because they happen to be going home to bath the kids makes no difference. The old saying the willing donkey carries the load applies here.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

All employees unless they are on zero hours contracts will have their hours of work stated in their contract, any hours worked over and above will be overtime and unless it is agreed that employees have to work a certain number of unsocial hours, then they are at liberty to 'swan off" , just because they happen to be going home to bath the kids makes no difference. The old saying the willing donkey carries the load applies here.

This is what I was getting at. Thank you.

[Niamh.]

Cherie is so good at verbalising my thoughts

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

and can I add if I ever take a day off because my kids are sick(which i can't even remember the last time I've had to do that), it comes off my annual leave, I get the same annual leave as everyone else kids or no kids

I think that is the case in most private companies Niamh

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Cherie is so good at verbalising my thoughts

[Ninastar]

i must be the only one who sees this as a nice thing... One of the hardest decisions is to choose between having kids or keep working. It's nice to show that you're that wanted, they'd pay that much to keep you for a while longer

i dont think they want you to not have children AT ALL or in the late 40s etc, just a decent age before leaving the company or whatever

i wish more people waited till their 30s to have kids. there's a big difference of behaviour (in children) with people who wait to have their kids. That's what I've noticed anyway.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by lily.

I think it depends on the kind of work you do. If you work in a high street shop or a small company, it would make less difference, but if you work in a high-stress job with deadlines and demands, then I expect it would have a negative effect on those left behind to carry the weight/responsibility of the task.

I don't have experience of this, because I chose the stay-at-home-mum path, but I am not surprised by your experiences Livia because I do know a lot of people who want to have it all... and that, in my view, is an unrealistic goal.

That's what I'm getting at. I don't have a contract for x amount of hours, in my job I might have to go abroad at a moment's notice or go in to work on a Sunday. It's unrealistic to expect someone with kids would be able to do that, or that they would even want to. If I was in a position to think about wanting kids I might want to take advantage of the offer here, and I might not. It would be my choice. Or I might decide I want to find a job that fits in with having a child. This isn't a 'one size fits all' question.

[lily.]

Yeah, that was my take on it.... that certain jobs just don't fit well with raising a family.

[lostalex]

I'd rather see more women having kids at 45 and less at 15, i'll say that much.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Cherie

All employees unless they are on zero hours contracts will have their hours of work stated in their contract, any hours worked over and above will be overtime and unless it is agreed that employees have to work a certain number of unsocial hours, then they are at liberty to 'swan off" , just because they happen to be going home to bath the kids makes no difference. The old saying the willing donkey carries the load applies here.

I don't have a set amount of hours in my contact. The "willing donkey" adage might apply if I worked in a shoe shop, otherwise it's an over simplistic comment. Sometimes the job has to be finished, I understand that, everyone I work with understands that, and not a donkey among us.