[user104658]

Not to point out the obvious but if there was to be a conflict on the scale that would require a united European military (against Russia or China or, I suppose, the US...) then the world is finished. It's game over. I'm not particularly bothered who "wins" the charred scraps that would be left.

[bots]

Originally Posted by lostalex

so if you think an EU def3e4nce force is impraticcal, what is thje alternative? just relying on the US???

wake up!

what happens if the US decides NATO is a waste tomorrow, what would you suggest? i bet you'd be calling for an EU defense/military then.

NATO is making Europe lazy and cheap. time for a wake up caLL. the US should cut funding to NATO until Europe steps up and starts pulling it's OWN weight. The US is being made a fool of by doing all the important stuff for the security of people on the other side of the planet. Europeans clearly think we are idiots. why should they do it when they can just use US to do it.

Europe is making Americans look like stupid fools, they are just using us for their security without having to pay the bill.

It's time for Europe to MAN THE **** UP.

Don't even begin to lecture me on this subject, OK?

This is not about America, this is about Europe, and I will state categorically that the UK wouldn't even entertain a European defense force within the next 50 years. What the rest of Europe does is entirely up to them, I am specifically referring to the UK, who, have been punching above their weight in terms of international defense for a long long time. So don't play the do more card on that one.

[Jessica.]

No, I want Ireland to keep out of everything.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

No, I want Ireland to keep out of everything.

Northern Ireland is part of my nation

[user104658]

Originally Posted by arista

Northern Ireland is part of my nation

He's findin' out what being royal's all about
Arista the first.
Makin' his way it's an adventure every daaay...
It's gonna be his time,
To tellem all that he's
Arista the fiiiiirrrrrrrrst
yeah!

Congrats good fellow, I've always yes knows that you deserved the Crown.

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by arista

Northern Ireland is part of my nation

That's not Ireland
bye

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kyle

Course I've never served and it's plainly obvious I haven't. Just as I can tell you that I'm damn sure a pacifist in JoeySteele hasn't served, a super liberal Kizzy hasn't served, a student or former student MTVN hasn't served and an anti-war activist in Josh hasn't served. And yes, I know you haven't served either although I knew about your military ties. Now if a ****** like me with less posts per day can work that out from what people's say on here then I'm damn sure someone with the brains you have can.

Nice to see you take on board people views and understand what makes people tick on the forum rather than just posting your own opinions.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

That's not Ireland
bye

Is this the same Ireland that took every EU hand out going ?

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Nice to see you take on board people views and understand what makes people tick on the forum rather than just posting your own opinions.

And not too proud to admit defeat on a topic either.

I have not changed my views on this....however....I will concede defeat on this in that I appear to be very much in the minority on this issue as the poll and discussion has shown.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kyle

And not too proud to admit defeat on a topic either.

I have not changed my views on this....however....I will concede defeat on this in that I appear to be very much in the minority on this issue as the poll and discussion has shown.

Don't throw in that towel yet mate because there has been a shift in percentages. Whatever the end result, it's been a real brain taxing poser.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Don't throw in that towel yet mate because there has been a shift in percentages. Whatever the end result, it's been a real brain taxing poser.

As it stands mate it's 4 for and 11 against with somebody also playing the role of Switzerland.

I don't think I have enough multi's to swing the balance

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kyle

And not too proud to admit defeat on a topic either.

I have not changed my views on this....however....I will concede defeat on this in that I appear to be very much in the minority on this issue as the poll and discussion has shown.

It was a good question, it made some really think I would say and although at present it seems we are the minority as to this, it is still something I would not be at all surprised to see talked about at least in the future by those in power.

World events may also influence something coming about,possibly even on the lines of this scenario too.
You made a really good thread with a really good question.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kyle

As it stands mate it's 4 for and 11 against with somebody also playing the role of Switzerland.

I don't think I have enough multi's to swing the balance

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Kyle

And not too proud to admit defeat on a topic either.

I have not changed my views on this....however....I will concede defeat on this in that I appear to be very much in the minority on this issue as the poll and discussion has shown.

That's it kyle stand firm.. even if you are a lone voice as I so often am on here, if I vote one way on a poll you can bet your granny the rest of the forum will vote the other

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

That's it kyle stand firm.. even if you are a lone voice as I so often am on here, if I vote one way on a poll you can bet your granny the rest of the forum will vote the other

The lone voices are often the right ones Kizzy, Winston Churchill was once a lone voice as to World affairs but he was often proven right.

Tony Benn was considered a dangerous and militant nutcase by the Conservatives for advocating the UK coming out of Europe. Yet look where the majority probably are now as to that issue.

I forget where it came from but at Uni someone once quoted to me, the lines, '' listen real good to the lone voice in the crowd''.
It can be amazing what you hear and learn when you do.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

The lone voices are often the right ones Kizzy, Winston Churchill was once a lone voice as to World affairs but he was often proven right.

Tony Benn was considered a dangerous and militant nutcase by the Conservatives for advocating the UK coming out of Europe. Yet look where the majority probably are now as to that issue.

I forget where it came from but at Uni someone once quoted to me, the lines, '' listen real good to the lone voice in the crowd''.
It can be amazing what you hear and learn when you do.

the lone voice n the crowd? you mean like the crazy guy with the beard shouting about how Jesus will come back and punish all the gays and girls in short skirts?

If it's a lone voice, there's probably a REASON that it's a lone voice, cause it's usually a ****ing nutter.

Good ideas tend to have traction and gain popularity quickly if they make sense. Anyone with a "lone voice" is probably insane. (and possibly dangerous)

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by lostalex

the lone voice n the crowd? you mean like the crazy guy with the beard shouting about how Jesus will come back and punish all the gays and girls in short skirts?

If it's a lone voice, there's probably a REASON that it's a lone voice, cause it's usually a ****ing nutter.

Good ideas tend to have traction and gain popularity quickly if they make sense. Anyone with a "lone voice" is probably insane. (and possibly dangerous)

He's not usually a lone voice in a crowd Lostalex, often he is shouting off to people passing with very few listening.

I was referring to when you have a group of people with a majority in favour of something,often it is the lone voice/s of the minority among them who actually get proven right in the end.

[Kizzy]

That's right joey, and it seems the onus is not on right or wrong but who can convince the largest amount of people by careful subterfuge.