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Marsh. · 22-10-2017, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack_

It matters in terms of creating an entertaining and engaging live show format, IMO. There were problems with the lives, absolutely, but the thing that makes X Factor better than The Voice is that you can get to know the acts over ten weeks and become invested in their journeys. 2015 proved that you can't over a shorter length of time, it was rushed, flat, and beyond predictable. This is even worse, how can acts develop when they're culling like four people in one week? It's tragic. Plus, the sing-off is without question the highlight of the weekend, if only for Louis' classic Deadlock dramas (the biggest loss tbh </3)

In terms of what else you said, under this format it is conceivable that one of the favourites could easily be lost in the one-act-from-each-category-leaves week if they have a bad night. Let's say that Grace or Holly has a bad performance and the other girls shine, meanwhile the fodder in the Boys category continue to underperform and would in a regular series be shoe-ins to leave in week 4. The former could end up being eliminated just because of a stupid arbitrary rule about keeping the categories at equal numbers, while the latter get to float on through just because

it's completely unfair.

I was referring more to the second part, about culling the categories equally, as they do at every prior stage of the competition. Culling them quickly so it's over in a shorter time does allow less time for progression and getting familiar with the acts and also for building up fanbases in time for finale week when it's the last head to head.

But, in terms of a girl like Grace getting booted out due to a bad week whilst a mediocre boy floats through happens regardless every single year. Heck, how many times have the judges wilfully made that exact decision during the sing-off/deadlock?

When it comes to that, the problem lies in talentless dreck making it to the live shows at all. The show's standards when it comes to talent needs to improve, no matter the process of eliminating them in the live shows.

However, I still maintain 12th place or 8th place, they're elimination fodder for the only places anyone cares about - 3rd, 2nd and 1st. The rest of them are just "those people eliminated throughout the lives." The order in which that happens is inconsequential IMO.

Jack_ · 22-10-2017, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I was referring more to the second part, about culling the categories equally, as they do at every prior stage of the competition. Culling them quickly so it's over in a shorter time does allow less time for progression and getting familiar with the acts and also for building up fanbases in time for finale week when it's the last head to head.

But, in terms of a girl like Grace getting booted out due to a bad week whilst a mediocre boy floats through happens regardless every single year. Heck, how many times have the judges wilfully made that exact decision during the sing-off/deadlock?

When it comes to that, the problem lies in talentless dreck making it to the live shows at all. The show's standards when it comes to talent needs to improve, no matter the process of eliminating them in the live shows.

However, I still maintain 12th place or 8th place, they're elimination fodder for the only places anyone cares about - 3rd, 2nd and 1st. The rest of them are just "those people eliminated throughout the lives." The order in which that happens is inconsequential IMO.

I see the point you're making (and I definitely agree re. putting fodder through to the lives in the first place, though I think this is the best bunch of finalists for a while) but my use of Grace and Holly as examples was less about them being culled over dull boys a la any other year, and more just because they're the favourites, you could swap them for whoever you like really - the same point would still apply. You could lose the favourites to fodder in any category, just because of a rule whereby someone from each category must leave. What if the three favourites were in one category? It's nonsense.

My main issue with this though lies in not being able to become invested in the acts over a lengthy period of time. The live shows are my absolute favourite part of X Factor and their insistence on reducing them for the second time in three years, and this time axing my actual favourite part (the sing-off), is so frustrating. They got almost everything right last year and this series was going so well, it's such a shame.

Marsh. · 22-10-2017, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack_

I see the point you're making (and I definitely agree re. putting fodder through to the lives in the first place, though I think this is the best bunch of finalists for a while) but my use of Grace and Holly as examples was less about them being culled over dull boys a la any other year, and more just because they're the favourites, you could swap them for whoever you like really - the same point would still apply. You could lose the favourites to fodder in any category, just because of a rule whereby someone from each category must leave. What if the three favourites were in one category? It's nonsense.

Then all three of those aren't going to win anyway. That's my point.

It's all about one winner, so whether Favourite A is knocked out by Favourite B in the final 2 or a few weeks beforehand is neither here nor there.

And, yes, I see the argument that a final with both of those favourites in it would be better than one of them versus a floater who slipped through in a fairly crappy category, that's where my point about the overall lack of quality control across the whole show crops up.

supertv247 · 22-10-2017, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Then all three of those aren't going to win anyway. That's my point.

It's all about one winner, so whether Favourite A is knocked out by Favourite B in the final 2 or a few weeks beforehand is neither here nor there.

And, yes, I see the argument that a final with both of those favourites in it would be better than one of them versus a floater who slipped through in a fairly crappy category, that's where my point about the overall lack of quality control across the whole show crops up.

Think 2011. Janet was the winner, so you could’ve just assumed by week 6 Janet will win - what’s the difference in 6 or 10 shows?
But Little Mix happened. They only happened because of the 10 weeks... nobody saw that happening at the start of the shows. The whole problem with this new format is unfair eliminations with no time for acts to grow. Not about one clear winner, or they may as well just crown the winner on week one going by what you’re saying

LukeB · 22-10-2017, 11:30 PM

Im glad this didnt happen last year because Saara would have not made final </3

lewis111 · 22-10-2017, 11:42 PM

In regards to "what if three favourites were in one Catagory" and the whole one leaves from each Catagory thing

Every single one of the girls is ahead of every single one of the boys in the betting odds (and almost overs too) in the odds
So say week 1 they done 4 eliminations - we could be loosing Rai-Elle who may get like the 5th most votes and keep 2 boys who got like 8/9th most votes and thus isn't a vey unlikely scenario

Regardless of wether you like less weeks or not In live tbis is clearly an unfair format that takes away from what made the X factor more interesting

supertv247 · 22-10-2017, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewis111

In regards to "what if three favourites were in one Catagory" and the whole one leaves from each Catagory thing

Every single one of the girls is ahead of every single one of the boys in the betting odds (and almost overs too) in the odds
So say week 1 they done 4 eliminations - we could be loosing Rai-Elle who may get like the 5th most votes and keep 2 boys who got like 8/9th most votes and thus isn't a vey unlikely scenario

Regardless of wether you like less weeks or not In live tbis is clearly an unfair format that takes away from what made the X factor more interesting

This. It’s going to happen, and it’s going to be horrible. If the 4 girls are best then the 4 girls deserve to stay the longest.

It’s also annoying that they’ll put specific categories together to try and get the acts they want furthest. I’ll put money on the groups & girls being on separate nights

Marsh. · 22-10-2017, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supertv247

This. It’s going to happen, and it’s going to be horrible. If the 4 girls are best then the 4 girls deserve to stay the longest.

It’s also annoying that they’ll put specific categories together to try and get the acts they want furthest. I’ll put money on the groups & girls being on separate nights

Why would they purposely want to push the worst acts furthest?

supertv247 · 23-10-2017, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Why would they purposely want to push the worst acts furthest?

If the producers favourites are a group and a girl, they won’t put them on the same night because that’ll mean one has to go. So they’ll put them separate in the hope that an over and boy will go instead

Marsh. · 23-10-2017, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supertv247

If the producers favourites are a group and a girl, they won’t put them on the same night because that’ll mean one has to go. So they’ll put them separate in the hope that an over and boy will go instead

Why would one HAVE to go? Presumably, the rest of their categories are performing too? And if they would easily survive elimination against the other acts in their category then they're going to fly through the first stages regardless?

Withano · 22-10-2017, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewis111

In regards to "what if three favourites were in one Catagory" and the whole one leaves from each Catagory thing

Every single one of the girls is ahead of every single one of the boys in the betting odds (and almost overs too) in the odds
So say week 1 they done 4 eliminations - we could be loosing Rai-Elle who may get like the 5th most votes and keep 2 boys who got like 8/9th most votes and thus isn't a vey unlikely scenario

Regardless of wether you like less weeks or not In live tbis is clearly an unfair format that takes away from what made the X factor more interesting

Yeah I agree. I hated s1 of the voice for this reason.

Amy Jade · 23-10-2017, 12:03 AM

I hate that there is no sing off, some of my favourite XF moments have been from sing offs

Ruth singing Purple Rain and Knocking on Heavens Door

Marsh. · 23-10-2017, 12:23 AM

But then you could make the argument that even if one act would've survived against another category, the fact they came bottom of the 8 acts that performed that night shows they're far from deserving of remaining really anyway.