[Twosugars]

It's funny how god used to communicate all the time until he stopped
You'd think there'd be so much more pointless instructions to pass ( you shall not use Microsoft products only Apple) but no, silence....

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

It's funny how god used to communicate all the time until he stopped
You'd think there'd be so much more pointless instructions to pass ( you shall not use Microsoft products only Apple) but no, silence....

There's been countless "prophets" down the centuries. It's just down to which religion believes them or not.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Livia

Just for clarity, God told Abraham to cut his foreskin, and his sons' and his servants' as an everlasting covenant in their flesh.

King of moderation
Could have asked for an eye or a leg

[joeysteele]

There are a number of reasons why it may be done.
Obviously any medical reason is important.

However, it does have a faith element.
It's not for me not being of the Muslim or Jewish faith to condemn the rite.

It is a vital part of those religions and while it may seem bizarre to those of no faith.
To those religions it's very important.

So I'd rather respect those religions rites myself.
They believe it's part of a covenant.
A matter of deep faith.

[Livia]

How many Jewish or Muslim men are complaining about this? I'm pretty sure it should be up to the parents, or where are you going to stop?

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Livia

How many Jewish or Muslim men are complaining about this? I'm pretty sure it should be up to the parents, or where are you going to stop?

Why?

I get that it traditionally has been, but why must it continue?

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Withano

Why?

I get that it traditionally has been, but why must it continue?

Who's going to judge who is a good parent? You?

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Livia

Who's going to judge who is a good parent? You?

This doesn’t even nearly answer the question I asked.

[Kizzy]

Well in fairness should anyone do anything like this to a member of the public how would it be viewed?...It would be quite rightly against the law.

[Livia]

If my Baby is born a boy, I hope you all have the number for my local Children's Services, it's in County Hall Norwich, PM me for more details just so you're equipped with all the info. And it's not like there are any other children in the country suffering abuse, sexual, physical, at the hands of those who are supposed to nurture and protect them; kids plonked in front of a telly all day, yet more kids born into already poverty-stricken families... We'll let that slide though because well... religion... it's like, stupid, innit. Let's obsess about children born to loving parents who have faith. They're the real b*stards.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Livia

If my Baby is born a boy, I hope you all have the number for my local Children's Services, it's in County Hall Norwich, PM me for more details just so you're equipped with all the info. And it's not like there are any other children in the country suffering abuse, sexual, physical, at the hands of those who are supposed to nurture and protect them; kids plonked in front of a telly all day, yet more kids born into already poverty-stricken families... We'll let that slide though because well... religion... it's like, stupid, innit. Let's obsess about children born to loving parents who have faith. They're the real b*stards.

[Oliver_W]

"Mutilation" is a strong word, especially as they're better after

Using mutilation also equates it with FGM, which is disgusting and there's absolutely no justification for.

[Withano]

Imagine spending 100 years of your life dedicated to religion, living without sin and spreading the word of the God that turns out to be real. You die and your soul floats up to heaven and God’s all like “ew no you have foreskin bye”

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Withano

Imagine spending 100 years of your life dedicated to religion, living without sin and spreading the word of the God that turns out to be real. You die and your soul floats up to heaven and God’s all like “ew no you have foreskin bye”

You're hilarious.

FYI, Jews don't believe in heaven and hell. You know nothing of my faith and you're going to judge my parenting skills based on just that.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Livia

You're hilarious.

FYI, Jews don't believe in heaven and hell. You know nothing of my faith and you're going to judge my parenting skills based on just that.

Didnt even know you were a parent

You said you were pretty sure that foreskin should be a parental choice, and I asked why. Do you habe any single reason? I was simply curious

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Withano

Didnt even know you were a parent

You said you were pretty sure that foreskin should be a parental choice, and I asked why. Do you habe any single reason? I was simply curious

I'm pregnant.

It's a parental choice to have your kids ears pierced. Is there any single reason for that?

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Livia

I'm pregnant.

It's a parental choice to have your kids ears pierced. Is there any single reason for that?

Usually just vanity I’d imagine. Seems like a discussion for a different thread, and still 100% does not answer the question I asked 10 minutes ago

I’m going to ask for a third time just incase!

Is there any single reason that foreskin should be a parental choice?

[user104658]

Hmmmm this is a tough one for me to answer I think because I was circumcised at 5 for medical reasons, and also my penis is obviously spectacular and grand so I do have a bias, but I'm going to do my best .

- GENERAL first thoughts; I firmly believe in bodily autonomy so I think in an ideal world, it should always be the choice of the individual unless it's for medical reasons. And yes I would say exactly the same about any body alteration... I flat out think getting children piercings should be illegal. You can't go and get your baby a tattoo so why are you be able to get holes put in them? It just doesn't seem right. So yeah I put it in the same category; like tattoos and piercings, there is nothing WRONG with circumcision, but it is a body modification and I think individual autonomy needs to come into the equation here.

- I think referring to it as genital mutilation presents some huge problems. Female genital mutilation is utterly horrific. It's barbaric. Even suggesting that circumcision is in the same ballpark DOWNPLAYS the seriousness of FGM and we need to be really careful about sending the opposite message to the one that is intended; ie people getting the idea that FGM is "just the same as men being circumcised so can't be that bad". Even just calling it "worse" is a gross understatement. Its a completely different thing.

- regardless of all of the above, in medical terms, I personally don't think it should be done on babies. It's safer and has better results after the foreskin naturally separates from the glans, which happens at around 2/3.

[Kizzy]

Ok let's not say mutilation, let's go with your word TS modification. .. why would anyone want to modify a perfect baby? Why would god want that?
It causes pain, discomfort and there's a risk of infection as there is with any wound. I just can't justify it... blind faith is not enough sorry.
I can accept chatting nonsense into the ether, transubstantiation... but this? Nah.

[Livia]

So non-believers would like to dictate to people of faith. Good luck.

[Kizzy]

I'm a believer too, in God not religion.
Aren't we alk supposed to be created in his image
... Is Gods image wrong?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I'm a believer too, in God not religion.
Aren't we alk supposed to be created in his image
... Is Gods image wrong?

Even if you don't believe the "in his image" part, it's hard to comprehend how people believe that God intended for people to be born with a foreskin only for it to be immediately removed. Like... For what possible reason?

[Kizzy]

I don't know... That's special esoteric knowledge specifically for those who not only believe in God but have 'faith'

[Twosugars]

One of my gripes about major religions is how pernickety their god seems to be. All those detailed and sometimes ridiculous rules about unimportant things.
Surely ten commandments is plenty for a broadly ethical and godly life, the rest is just silly.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

One of my gripes about major religions is how pernickety their god seems to be. All those detailed and sometimes ridiculous rules about unimportant things.
Surely ten commandments is plenty for a broadly ethical and godly life, the rest is just silly.

Tbf that's usually how they're treated, the commandments being the "laws" that must be followed and everything else just being guidance and teaching.