[user104658]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

No issue.

Trans men pose no realistic risk to biological males. Trying to equate the two is nonsense. If I walk into the men’s toilets and a woman is stood there … what is the implication? What’s the threat? Nothing, If just assume they walked into the wrong room.

If a woman walks into a womens toilets and there’s a 6’ 200lb bloke stood there the threat is very real and immediate. Is that because all men are dangerous? Obviously not - he might just have gone in the wrong door too - that’s not the point.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

your disdain for what amounts to 50% of the worlds population is pretty abhorrent from my perspective. So by your same logic, lets not raise our voices about gays being thrown off of rooftops in muslim countries, lets not speak out and try and protect them. Does that sound ok to you?

I've just put my point across from what I feel would be the perspective of someone who has gone through that transition. Of course there are risks.

How can you compare someone who has transitioned and whether they can or cannot use a slmale and female bathroom to Muslims, Sharia law and being chucked off buildings. Ridiculous

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

I don't give a **** whether a female who use to be a male wants to use a bathroom labelled male or visa versa.

There's no such thing as a "female who used to be male", you can't change being male or female.

Originally Posted by ThomasC

I'm more bothered about people being happy rather than getting my knickers in a twist over something that doesn't affect me.

Well, as long as You're All Right Jack.

Originally Posted by ThomasC

If they have transitioned I don't see an issue with.

There's no such thing as someone having transitioned, there's just male and female people who try to appear as the opposite, maybe with the aid of cross-sex hormones and/or surgery.

Originally Posted by Alf

What do men think about trans-men sharing their spaces? I only ever see the argument about trans-women and women's spaces.

It's not as much of a talking point because of male socialisation, men are more likely to demand what they want, and in this case it's case to women's spaces.

Originally Posted by Cherie

its not just about bathrooms I don't know why people get hung up on bathrooms, for example Thomas do you think a transwoman with a penis who has been assaulted by her partner have access to a woman's refuge?

Bathrooms may be over-represented in the discussion, but it's quite simple - as soon as a transwoman enters a woman's bathroom, it ceases to be a woman-only space. Bathrooms are more accessible and universal than sports or refuges.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Cherie

its not just about bathrooms I don't know why people get hung up on bathrooms, for example Thomas do you think a transwoman with a penis who has been assaulted by her partner should have access to a woman only refuge?

I'm not sure as they haven't gone through the full transition. They need support regardless. My view is that if that was how they identified them would it be fair for me to judge?

[Nicky91]

let's not just in eurovision create a better world of love and peace, but let's also do that in the real world


and i myself respect all activists but it would be better if we wouldn't need them anymore if the world only had good people


one of our tv preachers ''Dominee Gremdaat'' said it in a speech like that last night on one of my nation's talkshows Half8

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

I'm not sure as they haven't gone through the full transition. They need support regardless. My view is that if that was how they identified them would it be fair for me to judge?

As a man it's nice and comfortable to be that kind and charitable but there's no real threat to men by being nice and accommodating to any one who says they're the opposite sex, is there?

[Alf]

The logical solution would be for Trans-women to have their own spaces, but even that creates a problem because that costs money and it would be wasted money for a very small percentage of society. For example you wouldn't want to waste money on a prison for a very small amount of criminals.

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

What's the alternative solution? That we victimise a whole group of people? Make them feel more isolated?

That’s exactly what the anti-trans movement want to do, they’d quite happily take away the already existing rights of trans people to share spaces, all on the chance that a tiny minority of people would be willing to abuse it, all while shouting that it’s their rights that are being taken away, it’s actually pretty laughable, even more so considering these people are actually in the minority themselves considering polling that’s been done, the majority of women have no issue with transwomen using the same bathrooms as them.

But take note of the type of person they use to whip up fear though, they’re constantly talking about the ‘big, buff, bearded men’ that want to use their toilets, it’s purposeful, it’s tactless and quite frankly it’s bigoted at its core, but hey, we’re not allowed to have opinions on it because we’re gay men, so I’d stop now if I were you.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Alf

The logical solution would be for Trans-women to have their own spaces, but even that creates a problem because that costs money and it would be wasted money for a very small percentage of society. For example you wouldn't want to waste money on a prison for a very small amount of criminals.

They don't need a separate space, male spaces already exist
If they don't want to use those, there are always disabled toilets etc

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Liam-

That’s exactly what the anti-trans movement want to do, they’d quite happily take away the already existing rights of trans people to share spaces, all on the chance that a tiny minority of people would be willing to abuse it, all while shouting that it’s their rights that are being taken away, it’s actually pretty laughable, even more so considering these people are actually in the minority themselves considering polling that’s been done, the majority of women have no issue with transwomen using the same bathrooms as them.

But take note of the type of person they use to whip up fear though, they’re constantly talking about the ‘big, buff, bearded men’ that want to use their toilets, it’s purposeful, it’s tactless and quite frankly it’s bigoted at its core, but hey, we’re not allowed to have opinions on it because we’re gay men, so I’d stop now if I were you.

I mean you post that on this thread with the video that's attached.....

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

They don't need a separate space, male spaces already exist
If they don't want to use those, there are always disabled toilets etc

But they don't want to use male spaces so then they become victims and start sueing people.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

I'm not sure as they haven't gone through the full transition. They need support regardless. My view is that if that was how they identified them would it be fair for me to judge?

The bit in bold is considered transphobic according to current TRA doctrine, just FYI; you are now a transphobe. Welcome! It's a very non-exclusive club with ridiculously low entry requirements (any dissent from the dogma will do the trick).

For the second part... it's not about "judging" it's about safeguarding, and I'm now genuinely concerned that you actually DON'T understand what safeguarding is. It's not about judgement. It's not about thinking people are definitely a risk. It's about understanding and accepting that a tiny proportion of people ARE a risk, and taking appropriate measures to reduce that risk.

Imagine someone going for a job working with vulnerable kids and declaring "How dare you accuse me of being a risk to kids???" when asked for their disclosure documentation.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

As a man it's nice and comfortable to be that kind and charitable but there's no real threat to men by being nice and accommodating to any one who says they're the opposite sex, is there?

Yes there is threat, but I would say more likely less of a threat.

Under equality law and protected characteristic, gender reassignment being one of them a decision made to deny someone, for example, to use a female bathroom would have to be proportionate.

I found this article very balanced and fair

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/t...s-b992398.html

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Liam-

That’s exactly what the anti-trans movement want to do, they’d quite happily take away the already existing rights of trans people to share spaces, all on the chance that a tiny minority of people would be willing to abuse it, all while shouting that it’s their rights that are being taken away, it’s actually pretty laughable, even more so considering these people are actually in the minority themselves considering polling that’s been done, the majority of women have no issue with transwomen using the same bathrooms as them.

But take note of the type of person they use to whip up fear though, they’re constantly talking about the ‘big, buff, bearded men’ that want to use their toilets, it’s purposeful, it’s tactless and quite frankly it’s bigoted at its core, but hey, we’re not allowed to have opinions on it because we’re gay men, so I’d stop now if I were you.

Nice to read I'm not going 100% mad in my thought process.

Like you say, a minority of people would abuse it just like anything in life, hey?

Nice to hear about the polling.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Liam-

That’s exactly what the anti-trans movement want to do, they’d quite happily take away the already existing rights of trans people to share spaces, all on the chance that a tiny minority of people would be willing to abuse it, all while shouting that it’s their rights that are being taken away, it’s actually pretty laughable, even more so considering these people are actually in the minority themselves considering polling that’s been done, the majority of women have no issue with transwomen using the same bathrooms as them.

But take note of the type of person they use to whip up fear though, they’re constantly talking about the ‘big, buff, bearded men’ that want to use their toilets, it’s purposeful, it’s tactless and quite frankly it’s bigoted at its core, but hey, we’re not allowed to have opinions on it because we’re gay men, so I’d stop now if I were you.

The majority of people don't know about the push for self-ID changes to the law (including people on this thread; or at least they pretend not to) so that part's pretty meaningless. Self-IS opens up a massive loophole that allows men (not trans women) access to women-only spaces. That can and will be exploited (and already has been; assaults and rapes have already occurred). That's going to continue to be the case no matter how hard you try to pretend it isn't, or that the "real issue" is "transphobes having a problem with genuine trans people". You simply don't want to discuss the actual issue so you repeatedly make it about something else, and insist that the issue people are concerned about doesn't exist.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

Yes there is threat, but I would say more likely less of a threat.

Under equality law and protected characteristic, gender reassignment being one of them a decision made to deny someone, for example, to use a female bathroom would have to be proportionate.

I found this article very balanced and fair

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/t...s-b992398.html

Key word here being Gender reassignment Thomas not Gender Identity. You keep avoiding this part of the discussion

[user104658]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

Yes there is threat, but I would say more likely less of a threat.

Under equality law and protected characteristic, gender reassignment being one of them a decision made to deny someone, for example, to use a female bathroom would have to be proportionate.

I found this article very balanced and fair

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/t...s-b992398.html

Gender reassignment and gender identity are not the same thing. There's no point discussing this issue at all with someone who doesn't (or refuses to) understand that.

[Oliver_W]

When talking about things in the abstract, I'm sure a lot of women wouldn't have a problem with transwomen in their spaces and sports. But when confronted with realities (Lia Thomas) it puts things in a different light.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Key word here being Gender reassignment Thomas not Gender Identity. You keep avoiding this part of the discussion

I'm not avoiding anything.

Sorry to make myself clear, I am on about those who have undergone gender reassignment.

Anyone can claim to be a different sex, but having gone through a long and hard procedure is completely different imo.

Although I like to take people on face value and think that if someone says they are in the process of transition, but haven't yet then they are being genuine. There will be those who have alteria motives unfortunately and then those who have gender disphoria

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

I'm not avoiding anything.

Sorry to make myself clear, I am on about those who have undergone gender reassignment.

Anyone can claim to be a different sex, but having gone through a long and hard procedure is completely different imo.

Although I like to take people on face value and think that if someone says they are in the process of transition, but haven't yet then they are being genuine.

Well OK, gender reassignment is a different thing altogether. I had absolutely no issue with this whole topic until the push for Self ID and this whole religion of Gender Identity took over the movement. I mean have you watched the video in the OP? You can't actually look at those men in Balaclavas threatening and attacking women and tell me you think they're genuine trans women? I mean come oooon

[Beso]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

Nonsense. You're part of the problem with an attitude like that

Are you a trans woman?

Because if not, you should take your own advice you give out to others when they dare to talk about gay issues.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

Sex and gender.

Sex is determined at birth with genitalia which can later be changed in life. Gender is how you identify yourself.

They are males with an inverted penis that looks like a vagina, and steroid fattened man boobs.

They are still male.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Well OK, gender reassignment is a different thing altogether. I had absolutely no issue with this whole topic until the push for Self ID and this whole religion of Gender Identity took over the movement. I mean have you watched the video in the OP? You can't actually look at those men in Balaclavas threatening and attacking women and tell me you think they're genuine trans women? I mean come oooon

Nah I don't think they are genuine. Yeah I watched it

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

Nah I don't think they are genuine. Yeah I watched it

I do feel bad for genuine transsexuals and I genuinely believe that the way this movement has been hijacked is going to end up effecting actual transsexuals in a negative way.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I do feel bad for genuine transsexuals and I genuinely believe that the way this movement has been hijacked is going to end up effecting actual transsexuals in a negative way.

I got the idea from the video that it was just people who wanted to feel a sense of purpose for the wrong reasons, but still to make themselves feel important about something and were just doing it for attention