[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Stu

I care. Seriously. Post stupid stuff, get a slagging for being stupid. If you take that to heart it's your problem, not mine. You insult too, as you did in that post, merely in a more subliminal manner. And your really in no position to point out anything to anyone as you appear to have no point whatsover yourself!

i will take that as "taken on board"

ta

[Stu]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

i will take that as "taken on board"

ta

LeatherTrumpet making abstract, false patronization in lieu of making any rational point? Well drug me up and call me Nancy, I am just shocked to the core.

I really, really hope your a young'un. Otherwise this is quiet worrying.

[Beastie]

Homophobia still exists but not as much as it used to.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by thebeast

Homophobia still exists but not as much as it used to.

Yep, but as you said it still exists.

The point of the thread is why did/does it exist in the first place?

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Stu

Yes it is. We are not talking about attraction here. We are talking about the fact that they see nothing wrong with two females doing it but do with two males. Take attraction out of it.

Also, to Fom's point, yes, being gay was romanticized in plenty of ancient cultures.

I think you're generalising straight males slightly... Not all males think of men together as morally wrong, but because they are straight, the though of men together is not appealing.

[30stone]

Its exists because people dont agree with man on man and woman on woman love making, for various reasons.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by happyland

I think you're generalising straight males slightly... Not all males think of men together as morally wrong, but because they are straight, the though of men together is not appealing.

Yes, in the attraction sense. Obviously a straight male is not going to be sexually attracted to a male on male scene in a seedy DVD. I don't think that needed to be pointed out to anybody, somehow.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Stu

Yes, in the attraction sense. Obviously a straight male is not going to be sexually attracted to a male on male scene in a seedy DVD. I don't think that needed to be pointed out to anybody, somehow.

What other sense are you talking about?? Attraction is the basis of all relationships/sex whethe in a gay or straight relationship! I really don't get the point you're trying to make.

"Obviously a straight male is not going to be sexually attracted to a male on male scene in a seedy DVD"?? I didn't point this out, you did, and no you're right it didn't need pointed out.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by happyland

What other sense are you talking about??

The moral sense. I was mentioning that some straight men see nothing wrong or don't judge lesbians because they find it attractive, but do judge and do hold prejudice towards males for doing the exact same thing.

It's simple, really.

[setanta]

Originally Posted by Stu

The moral sense. I was mentioning that some straight men see nothing wrong or don't judge lesbians because they find it attractive, but do judge and do hold prejudice towards males for doing the exact same thing.

It's simple, really.

Yep, I was with you all the way there buddy. People generally respond in disgust more often to the idea of two men showing affection than they do at the thought of two women getting it on.

[Wildcat!]

Originally Posted by Stu

The moral sense. I was mentioning that some straight men see nothing wrong or don't judge lesbians because they find it attractive, but do judge and do hold prejudice towards males for doing the exact same thing.

It's simple, really.

As far as judging, I dont agree! I think male that judge lesbians, for their sexuality, judge Homosexuals, the same. Of course they are still more enclined to the gay female, visually! But like someone else said, thats just because they see the really attractive female lesbians on videos. If they were judging by whats real (me included), they would definitely feel diferently.

but they would still look down on both, in everyday life situations. Without them doing it!

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

As far as judging, I dont agree! I think male that judge lesbians, for their sexuality, judge Homosexuals, the same. Of course they are still more enlined to the gay female, visually! But like someone else said, thats just because they see the really attractive female lesbians on videos. If they were judging by whats real (me included), they would definitely feel diferrently.

That's a sweeping statement. You cant just speak for everyone like that. Certain males bear no grudges against lesbians but do with gay males.

[setanta]

Nah wildcat, I know even some girls who have a kinda kneejerk reaction to seeing any boys kissing whereas with lesbians they don't get the same kinda icky feeling. Obviously generalizing here but yeah, I usually see different attitudes involved.

[Wildcat!]

Originally Posted by Stu

That's a sweeping statement. You cant just speak for everyone like that. Certain males bear no grudges against lesbians but do with gay males.

Originally Posted by setanta

Nah wildcat, I know even some girls who have a kinda kneejerk reaction to seeing any boys kissing whereas with lesbians they don't get the same kinda icky feeling. Obviously generalizing here but yeah, I usually see different attitudes involved.

Alright, fair enough. If yall have experienced it, then maybe there is a truth to it. 2 experiences, bets my one.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Stu

The moral sense. I was mentioning that some straight men see nothing wrong or don't judge lesbians because they find it attractive, but do judge and do hold prejudice towards males for doing the exact same thing.

It's simple, really.

Yes, I'll agree with that.. Some straight men probably do, however not all of them. You seem to think that every straight man has a problem with gay men, but that's just not the case. Yes, some men hate/fear/are disgusted by gay men, others understand, but don't want it rubbed in their face and others are completely comfortable with the whole thing. What do you want? Do you want every straight male to announce their love for gay men? I can tell you that will never happen. In an ideal world everybody would live in peace in harmony and everybody would love everybody, but this isn't an ideal world I'm afraid and there are always going to be people with silly prejudicies! Some people will always have something against gays, blacks, muslims, fat people, Scottish people, English people, Germans, old people, ginger people... the list is endless. As I said before, people just need to get on with things, enjoy life and not give a toss what other people think of them!

[Wildcat!]

Originally Posted by happyland

Yes, I'll agree with that.. Some straight men probably do, however not all of them. You seem to think that every straight man has a problem with gay men, but that's just not the case. Yes, some men hate/fear/are disgusted by gay men, others understand, but don't want it rubbed in their face and others are completely comfortable with the whole thing. What do you want? Do you want every straight male to announce their love for gay men? I can tell you that will never happen. In an ideal world everybody would live in peace in harmony and everybody would love everybody, but this isn't an ideal world I'm afraid and there are always going to be people with silly prejudicies! Some people will always have something against gays, blacks, muslims, fat people, Scottish people, English people, Germans, old people, ginger people... the list is endless. As I said before, people just need to get on with things, enjoy life and not give a toss what other people think of them!

I really agree with this whole post!

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by setanta

Yep, I was with you all the way there buddy. People generally respond in disgust more often to the idea of two men showing affection than they do at the thought of two women getting it on.

I'm going to have to put this quite bluntly; For a straight man, watching two women together = hard dick. Watching two men together = soft!

[Stu]

Originally Posted by happyland

You seem to think that every straight man has a problem with gay men

Sorry dear but ... what exactly are you arguing? Quote me where I said that, please. And don't give me some poor ''that's the impression I get'' reply because that's certainly not the impression I am giving if you learn to read my posts properly. I always say some men. Some. Some. Some. Some. Hammer it in there.

Originally Posted by happyland

I'm going to have to put this quite bluntly; For a straight man, watching two women together = hard dick. Watching two men together = soft!

I am sure Setanta is aware of that, somehow. Again like me he is talking about moral acceptability, not attractiveness. Learn to read.

As I said before, people just need to get on with things, enjoy life and not give a toss what other people think of them!

They can still be proud of it and fight for there cause. Whats your problem with that? People fight for causes to make things better. It happens. Do you think blacks, gay's and women would have the rights they do now if nobody questioned anything and nobody fighted?

Christ almighty.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Stu

Sorry dear but ... what exactly are you arguing? Quote me where I said that, please. And don't give me some poor ''that's the impression I get'' reply because that's certainly not the impression I am giving if you learn to read my posts properly. I always say some men. Some. Some. Some. Some. Hammer it in there.


I am sure Setanta is aware of that, somehow. Again like me he is talking about moral acceptability, not attractiveness. Learn to read.


They can still be proud of it and fight for there cause. Whats your problem with that? People fight for causes to make things better. It happens. Do you think blacks, gay's and women would have the rights they do now if nobody questioned anything and nobody fighted?

Christ almighty.

I'm sorry too "dear".. I didn't realise I was arguing with a teenager. I can assure you I can read very well, and what I read from your posts is that you have a bigger problem than most of the straight men I know. I'll maybe continue this argument with you in a few years when you have managed to get over yourself and experienced life a bit.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by happyland

I didn't realise I was arguing with a teenager.

So you offer up no counter argument merely judge me by age? Nice save. Pick that egg off your face. Still cant find that quote where I said ALL straight males have a problem? Still cant understand why gay people are still fighting for acceptance? Still don't understand the difference between sexual attraction and moral approval? Pity.

Originally Posted by happyland

Iyou have a bigger problem than most of the straight men I know..

Which is?

I also like how you assume I am gay...

[setanta]

Do you know what suddenly occured to me too in regard to how people have different attitudes towards lesbians and gays? Have you ever heard some girls saying they've turned gay because they just can't deal with guys anymore whereas with gay men I've never heard the same reasoning behind it - for them it's usually something that they can't deny. It's almost as if lesbianism is more acceptable in today's age, but with men the same kind of joking attitude can't be attached to their sexuality. Just a thought and kinda plays into what we're discussing about how they're viewed differently.

[zotler.]

Maybe I didn't make myself clear in the post, but on more than one occasion different men (Not all! I have spoken to men who are comfortable with the whole thing) have said to me how they think it is disgusting for men to be homosexual because they think it is wrong but they think it's okay for women simply because it turns them on. Happyland, you can't say it's okay because it's not all about sexual attraction, they just generally think that homosexual men are disgusting. Although I have yet to meet a woman who finds homosexual women 'wrong' and homosexual men 'right'

[Stu]

Originally Posted by zotler.

they think it is disgusting for men to be homosexual because they think it is wrong but they think it's okay for women simply because it turns them on.

This is exactly the point I have been trying to make.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Stu

So you offer up no counter argument merely judge me by age? Nice save. Pick that egg off your face. Still cant find that quote where I said ALL straight males have a problem? Still cant understand why gay people are still fighting for acceptance? Still don't understand the difference between sexual attraction and moral approval? Pity.


Which is?

I also like how you assume I am gay...

There is no counter argument really.. I'm a bit bored to be honest.
I'll quickly summarise my points and then I am going to say no more on the subject as this could go on for a very long time..

My original point was that some straight men do not have a problem with gays as such, but do feel uncomfortable seeing men together and in my opinion, this is NOT homophobia. You think it IS homophobia so we'll agree to disagree on that one...
Gay rights etc have come a long long way over the past few decades and yes, I agree that there is still an element of homophobia within society but that is never going to be completely eradicated, no matter how much you fight. I do realise that blacks and women have fought for theit rights but on the same note, there is still racism/sexism in the world and again, there alweays will be!
My main point is that life is short and people whether gay or straight or whatever should get on with enjoying life and forget about what other people may (or may not) be saying about them.

I appreciate your pity but honestly I don't need it.. I am confident and secure in myself so there is no need for your patronising pity...

[Stu]

Of course there is still racism and sexism in the world, just like homophobia, but look how far we have come so far with the fighting. And naturally, given the past, we can safely say that with continued fighting, acceptance of minorities will grow. Not sure about you but for me, it's worth the fight.

''Life is short, enjoy it'' is not really an argument so much as it is a last ditch attempt to salvage something that may have once resembled an argument. I am sure gay people don't spend there entire lives fighting. There are twenty four hours in a day. They don't spend it all marching. Just like you don't spend it all on an internet forum talking to strangers.