[Zippy]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

Just had a nosey around and it appears Bulger is an English variant of the Irish name Bolger. You learn something new every day.

You still spelt it wrong. Continually.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Zippy

You still spelt it wrong. Continually.

because she thought it was the same as the Irish name Bolger, she just said

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

because she thought it was the same as the Irish name Bolger, she just said

but its never been spelt like that and its just not his correct name. He wasn't even Irish.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Zippy

but its never been spelt like that and its just not his correct name. He wasn't even Irish.

That name is spelled Bolger in Ireland, she didn't say that she thought he was Irish, she just said she assumed the spelling would be the same!

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Zippy

You still spelt it wrong. Continually.

*spelled

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by lostalex

*spelled

actually I meant spealt.

and a typo is not the same as spelling somebodies name wrong constantly.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Zippy

this

I know from personal experience how you can become a totally different person as an adult from when you were a child. It's called growing up and seeing things on a deeper level...with consequences.

I was a criminal not much older than this kid. Spent time in homes and detention centres. Missed years of school.

But now I look back and can't even remember what the hell I was thinking..how I even had the balls to do the stuff I did. Could never do it now and it wouldn't even enter my head to do so. Because Ive grown and Ive learned from my mistakes. My mindset has vastly changed and I care more about how my actions affects others. Young children are often not capable of that...especially if theyre damaged and unloved.

So I say BS to anybody who thinks this boys behaviour is somehow set in stone. NO IT IS NOT. He can still go on to be a good productive member of society. Indeed, many people working in victim support and rehabilitation were once criminals who served time. Now they are giving back in a way thats truly beneficial to society.

Not saying this kid will become an angel. But I think a civilised society should keep all options open and at least give him a chance to redeem himself at some point. His victim aint coming back whatever happens so unless youre all about revenge there's no need to destroy another life here.

But as Ive said, he should still serve a lengthy sentence. I think the killers of Jamie Bulger should have served a much longer sentence too. At that age they can afford to lose at least 15 years of freedom and still have a chance to build a life.

I actuallly agree with this, I think some members are grasping at straws and taking things too literally. The whole point of that sentence was to say that he COULD change with time. Picking at Zippy's grammar won't discredit his argument.

I agree with the red point fully, it's hardly civilised to damn the kid forever. IF he shows the potential to do good after a few years inside then why let your bloodlust take over and waste that? Better to have him serve his time and then become a contributing member of society then a wasted drain of funds in Prison. That's only IF he eventually shows the capacity for change though, otherwise he should serve a full sentence although I don't agree with a life sentence at his age. Perhaps a long sentence followed by limited freedom? Like House Arrest or something. I'm not sure but a Life sentence just doesn't feel right.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I actuallly agree with this, I think some members are grasping at straws and taking things too literally. The whole point of that sentence was to say that he COULD change with time. Picking at Zippy's grammar won't discredit his argument.

I agree with the red point fully, it's hardly civilised to damn the kid forever. IF he shows the potential to do good after a few years inside then why let your bloodlust take over and waste that? Better to have him serve his time and then become a contributing member of society then a wasted drain of funds in Prison. That's only IF he eventually shows the capacity for change though, otherwise he should serve a full sentence although I don't agree with a life sentence at his age. Perhaps a long sentence followed by limited freedom? Like House Arrest or something. I'm not sure but a Life sentence just doesn't feel right.

I agree completely with this, in fact. The reason I picked up the word 'can' - and believe me, I'm regretting it - is because the difference between he can and he could is central to my argument. For the 17th time, not everyone, in my opinion can be rehabilitated. There are dangerous psychopaths who should never, ever re-enter society. Sadly. It's a dangerous fallacy that we can fix everyone. That's all I'm saying.

[Tom4784]

I don't believe everyone can be fixed, I just don't think we should let that salt the effort to do so for the sake of public safety since not all crimes are punishable by life sentence. It's better to try and get through to a few then to throw them all away and take away any chance of them lving a lawful life because that will just lead to more crime.

I think psychopaths are a different and rare kettle of fish, obviously they should never re-enter society but true psychopaths are to rare to have an impact on rehibilation for everyone else I think.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I don't believe everyone can be fixed, I just don't think we should let that salt the effort to do so for the sake of public safety since not all crimes are punishable by life sentence. It's better to try and get through to a few then to throw them all away and take away any chance of them lving a lawful life because that will just lead to more crime.

I think psychopaths are a different and rare kettle of fish, obviously they should never re-enter society but true psychopaths are to rare to have an impact on rehibilation for everyone else I think.

yeah but the problem I have with rehabilitation is that the only way to know for sure if it works is sending the person back into society and that's risking innocent people, I don't think that's right

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

yeah but the problem I have with rehabilitation is that the only way to know for sure if it works is sending the person back into society and that's risking innocent people, I don't think that's right

but what are the chances of him killing again? Like I said, serial killers are rare for a reason.

Personally, I'd prefer to live next door to him than some serial burglar. Everytime I left the house I'd be concerned he was round there raiding the place.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Zippy

but what are the chances of him killing again? Like I said, serial killers are rare for a reason.

Personally, I'd prefer to live next door to him than some serial burglar. Everytime I left the house I'd be concerned he was round there raiding the place.

I actually meant more in general not specifically this case, this one is quite unusual cos he's young. You know, speaking about this case though, what I'm wondering is about the gun and how did he get his hands on it? I think the gun laws must be quite lax in the states, I hate the thought of having guns anywhere around children.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

You know, speaking about this case though, what I'm wondering is about the gun and how did he get his hands on it? I think the gun laws must be quite lax in the states, I hate the thought of having guns anywhere around children.

Its also very easy to pull a trigger. It's a split second decision with huge consequences. Which is another reason why he should be given a second chance at some point.

The Bulger case was a sustained, drawn out physical attack. He was tortured to death basically. But they get released after several years and this kid may die in prison.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah, it is and paedophiles regularly re offend, can paedophilia actually "be cured"? Would I like to keep all paedophiles locked away from children forever, absolutely. I realise that all of the list above can't be locked away forever, the jails would be bursting at the seams but I do think the more serious/severe cases and those who get life should be in for life.

Yeah lots of paedophiles do re-offend, in my opinion chemical castration would remove sexual urges and still allow the person to be rehabilitated back into society, same for repeat or serial rapists. Dont think Europe would like it though.

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I actually meant more in general not specifically this case, this one is quite unusual cos he's young. You know, speaking about this case though, what I'm wondering is about the gun and how did he get his hands on it? I think the gun laws must be quite lax in the states, I hate the thought of having guns anywhere around children.

Yeah the US Gun laws are quite liberal compared to those over here, its a right enshrined in their constitution.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

yeah but the problem I have with rehabilitation is that the only way to know for sure if it works is sending the person back into society and that's risking innocent people, I don't think that's right

It's better then not bothering and pretty much have most of them definiteley re-offend though.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

yeah but the problem I have with rehabilitation is that the only way to know for sure if it works is sending the person back into society and that's risking innocent people, I don't think that's right

Isnt that the case with anyone who commits any offence and is caught and punished for it though.

We release paedophiles, rapists, murderers, domestic abusers etc all the time, and lots do go on not to commit offences again.

Should we keep all criminals in jail for life and where do you draw the line between those who get a free life in prison and those who get released back into society?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Isnt that the case with anyone who commits any offence and is caught and punished for it though.

We release paedophiles, rapists, murderers, domestic abusers etc all the time, and lots do go on not to commit offences again.

Should we keep all criminals in jail for life and where do you draw the line between those who get a free life in prison and those who get released back into society?

Yeah, it is and paedophiles regularly re offend, can paedophilia actually "be cured"? Would I like to keep all paedophiles locked away from children forever, absolutely. I realise that all of the list above can't be locked away forever, the jails would be bursting at the seams but I do think the more serious/severe cases and those who get life should be in for life.

[Angus]

Just try putting forward the solution of chemical castration for paedophiles (which should also be applied to all rapists IMO) and see the liberal minority come howling out of their ivory towers screeching about the human rights of the perpetrators to enjoy a sex life No doubt Cherie Blair and her ilk will be first in line to milk the system dry defending this scum - after all she's already made a small fortune off the back of The Human Rights Act. Good old hubby, responsible for introducing this iniquitous and unjust legislation which has subsequently lined the pockets of many lawyers, whilst depriving many victims of THEIR human rights as those of the criminal have been upheld