[Jords]

Originally Posted by Niall

But that's simply not what it is. Dictionary definitions do not define the true nature of homophobia. Like I previously stated, the true natrue of homophobia is a deeply ingrained and systematic style of oppression directed at all people who aren't heterosexual. That, my friend, is the definition of homophobia. What you've got there is something that references only part of a deeply ingrained societal issue. No such issues exist for heterosexual individuals.

And if you do believe that 'heterophobia' exists, then you believe that people of colour can be racist to white individuals? Because the logic around heterophobia uses precisely the same logic as that.

I absolutely do at an individual level.

My flatmate in first year when he first referred to me as a "white boy" I asked him what he meant by that and he explained it was just his terminology and I accepted it and went on to use it myself in banter - although I never dared say the n-word.

If we had ever argued and he called me a "white boy %#!#!' I would have taken it as a racist comment yes.

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Niall

But that's simply not what it is. Dictionary definitions do not define the true nature of homophobia. Like I previously stated, the true natrue of homophobia is a deeply ingrained and systematic style of oppression directed at all people who aren't heterosexual. That, my friend, is the definition of homophobia. What you've got there is something that references only part of a deeply ingrained societal issue. No such issues exist for heterosexual individuals.

And if you do believe that 'heterophobia' exists, then you believe that people of colour can be racist to white individuals? Because the logic around heterophobia uses precisely the same logic as that.

Absolutely, but not just white people.

[Firewire]

Originally Posted by Jords

I absolutely do at an individual level.

My flatmate in first year when he first referred to me as a "white boy" I asked him what he meant by that and he explained it was just his terminology and I accepted it and went on to use it myself in banter - although I never dared say the n-word.

If we had ever argued and he called me a "white boy %#!#!' I would have taken it as a racist comment yes.

Well by that logic he's a black boy and if you called him that it wouldn't be offensive because that's what he is...

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Liam-

It seems to me that gay people have taken the history surrounding our sexuality and have taken it to mean that we deserve a higher podium to stand on because gay people in the past were treated awfully and some still are today, basically 'gays have had it worse so I can say and do whatever I want about straight people, it's not offensive because gays were treated worse' I don't buy into that mantra, nor do I think anyone should, hate is hate, discrimination against someone's sexuality -whether the sexuality is the most common one in the world or not - is discrimination.

'That guy can't come in this shop he's a ******' = discrimination
'That guy can't come in this shop he's a fleshy cave dweller' = discrimination

History is history, let it be history and accept that everyone can be hated on for anything these days and rather than try to disprove it because of some historical vendetta that is essentially blocking people's logical views of the world, accept it, not just gays are hated in this world, gays happen to be some of the most judgmental people in the entire world, we're not perfect.

Power to the straights.

****ing. PREACH. my god if we were both straight i'd totally marry you. its so nice to have another gay who shares this opinion with me. I feel like this whole putting the most underprivileged people on a podium thing does so much more damage than good. People preach and whine about wanting equality, so why is it different when people who are 'less-privileged' get hatred for being who they are? Now Im not the best with words, so I do apologize if this doesn't make sense, but surely, if people want equality so much, isnt the whole point that we treat everyone equally? So why is it not as big of a deal, or as serious, when someone who is straight, or white or even male receives hatred. Should we care less because 'LOL white people?' or 'LOL heterophobia'

At the end of the day, if someone is made to feel **** for who they are as a person, isn't that all that matters? why does a persons history have to come into with what they are being made to feel at that moment

[Jords]

Originally Posted by Chaos

Beautifully well said. I find it upsetting that people think it's not as big a deal when a white person/straight person/man etc etc receives hatred for who they are. Which is something they cannot help...

Im with you here. It seems that if youre in the minority group you are excluded from the label. It kind of reminds me of domesitc abuse - awareness, help and support is largely for when the female is abused compared to the male - but it exists.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Firewire

Well by that logic he's a black boy and if you called him that it wouldn't be offensive because that's what he is...

You can't risk saying something like that though, because so many people could take offence. Even though it's true, like you said, it wouldnt be okay for Jords to say it back and there is another double standard.

[Jords]

Originally Posted by Firewire

Well by that logic he's a black boy and if you called him that it wouldn't be offensive because that's what he is...

this is a deliberate awkward comment

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Jords

Im with you here. It seems that if youre in the minority group you are excluded from the label. It kind of reminds me of domesitc abuse - awareness, help and support is largely for when the female is abused compared to the male - but it exists.

Exactly. I'm glad you also agree. I cant tell you how relieving it is to see that Liam and I aren't the only ones with this opinion, lol.

[Firewire]

Originally Posted by Chaos

You can't risk saying something like that though, because so many people could take offence. Even though it's true, like you said, it wouldnt be okay for Jords to say it back and there is another double standard.

There's a double standard because white people have used it in the past to demean black people. If someone called me a white boy I would not be offended – how is that offensive?

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Firewire

There's a double standard because white people have used it in the past to demean black people. If someone called me a white boy I would not be offended – how is that offensive?

The double standard is that it's okay Jords' friend to call him whatever he wants, but not okay for Jords' to do the same. What has Jords' ever done to demean black people?

[Firewire]

Originally Posted by Chaos

The double standard is that it's okay Jords' friend to call him whatever he wants, but not okay for Jords' to do the same. What has Jords' ever done to demean black people?

It's not okay to be called names at all. But being called "white boy" is not offensive. He can make it offensive if he wants to, that's up to him.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Firewire

It's not okay to be called names at all. But being called "white boy" is not offensive. He can make it offensive if he wants to, that's up to him.

Yeah I agree with the beginning part completely. And the point isnt that the name isn't offensive, but more so the fact that it's not okay for a white person to say something a black person could say. Its double standards.

[Jords]

Originally Posted by Firewire

There's a double standard because white people have used it in the past to demean black people. If someone called me a white boy I would not be offended – how is that offensive?

You would not address it? Why? Because you think its purely descriptive? Or out of fear?

You could argue that being addressed as "White Boy" demeans you as they only recognise you for the colour of your skin.

[Jords]

Anyway I wasnt offended nor thought it was aimed to be offensive - but this is not the point - anyway we talk about getting white boy wasted now

[Firewire]

Originally Posted by Jords

You would not address it? Why? Because you think its purely descriptive? Or out of fear?

You could argue that being addressed as "White Boy" demeans you as they only recognise you for the colour of your skin.

I've never been faced with it so I don't know how I would react to it.

If I was in a room full of black people then I would be the "white boy" because that's what I am. I'm not defensive of my skin colour. If they called me "gay boy" it would be different.

[Jords]

Originally Posted by Firewire

I've never been faced with it so I don't know how I would react to it.

If I was in a room full of black people then I would be the "white boy" because that's what I am. I'm not defensive of my skin colour. If they called me "gay boy" it would be different.

but you are gay?

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Jords

but you are gay?

[Jords]

...

Originally Posted by Firewire

Well by that logic he's a black boy and if you called him that it wouldn't be offensive because that's what he is...

...

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Chaos

****ing. PREACH. my god if we were both straight i'd totally marry you. its so nice to have another gay who shares this opinion with me. I feel like this whole putting the most underprivileged people on a podium thing does so much more damage than good. People preach and whine about wanting equality, so why is it different when people who are 'less-privileged' get hatred for being who they are? Now Im not the best with words, so I do apologize if this doesn't make sense, but surely, if people want equality so much, isnt the whole point that we treat everyone equally? So why is it not as big of a deal, or as serious, when someone who is straight, or white or even male receives hatred. Should we care less because 'LOL white people?' or 'LOL heterophobia'

At the end of the day, if someone is made to feel **** for who they are as a person, isn't that all that matters? why does a persons history have to come into with what they are being made to feel at that moment

I'm sick of people using the 'minority card' to get away with doing and saying whatever they want about the majority, it makes a mockery of wanting true equality.

[Firewire]

Not the point and I can smell my dinner being made

[Jords]

kind of is though

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jords

Anyway I wasnt offended nor thought it was aimed to be offensive - but this is not the point - anyway we talk about getting white boy wasted now

see you've pretty much answered the question there, you weren't offended......where as that guy probably would have been if it were the other way round becuase referring to him as black boy has certain connotations that "white boy" does not.

[Firewire]

I was called it in school as an attempt to shame me before I even knew my own sexuality. People would laugh about it and that's why I would have a problem with it even though it's who I am. I've never had an issue with being white.

[Jords]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

see you've pretty much answered the question there, you weren't offended......where as that guy probably would have been if it were the other way round becuase referring to him as black boy has certain connotations that "white boy" does not.

Are you seriously telling me that if you argued with a black woman, lets say you took the last bag of frozen peas at Morrisons, and she called you a "****ing selfish White bitch" you would not consider that as a racist remark? :/

[Firewire]

Originally Posted by Jords

Are you seriously telling me that if you argued with a black woman, lets say you took the last bag of frozen peas at Morrisons, and she called you a "****ing selfish White bitch" you would not consider that as a racist remark? :/

I'm sure Niamh would just be happy that she has the last bag of peas.