[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kyle

The problem I see with life being a test is that none of us are under the same set of circumstances.

Some of us are born in the life of Riley where they don't have to do anything all their lives. Some of us are born severely handicapped either physically or mentally or without any chance to get anywhere in life. Some of us die in infancy or even earlier before they get any chance to be tested.

Have you ever known a test like that where everyone gets a diferent exam paper for no reason whatsoever?

My Grandmother always used to tell me the sick were here as a test as to the healthy, the poor were here as a test to the rich, the weakest were here as a test to the strong.

How each deal with that and act on that is the universal test.

That doesn't in any way address your infancy argument above however.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I would have asked your granny

1. How much physics she had studied?

2. what evidence did she have for such a statement?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I would have asked your granny

1. How much physics she had studied?

2. what evidence did she have for such a statement?

Her own and don't be disrespectful as she is not here anymore now.

She never claimed to be intelligent or all knowing, she had a strong religious belief that she never pushed down anyones throats but tried to make some sense of why we are here and what life may be about.

No need at all for your inappropriate sarcasm as to her studying physics.

You equally have nothing but your view that there is nothing, you have not a scrap evidence for that just as those who do and choose to believe in something haven't either.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

My Grandmother always used to tell me the sick were here as a test as to the healthy, the poor were here as a test to the rich, the weakest were here as a test to the strong.

How each deal with that and act on that is the universal test.

That doesn't in any way address your infancy argument above however.

Joey you are a good three times over smarter than me so when I see you say something I take good notice of it.

I understand what you've said above but to me that addresses things from the point of view of the people in the position of power I.e the rich and healthy. It's their responsibility to look after them or see to them.

How would you personally reconcile that view to those who are poor and of ill health? Do you think it make them feel better about their lot if they were to know their poor circumstances were to test those who were their betters?

[Kyle]

And just to add that is nevertheless an admirable philosophy from your grandmother Joey. It reminds me very much of a chivalric code where the strong are dutybound to become the protectorate of those who are unable to defend themselves.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kyle

Joey you are a good three times over smarter than me so when I see you say something I take good notice of it.

I understand what you've said above but to me that addresses things from the point of view of the people in the position of power I.e the rich and healthy. It's their responsibility to look after them or see to them.

How would you personally reconcile that view to those who are poor and of ill health? Do you think it make them feel better about their lot if they were to know their poor circumstances were to test those who were their betters?

I am not saying the descriptive terms used were right Kyle, they were things that were said from her thinking as to making sense of life and the way life is as to human beings.
They were things that I can take on board from someone I adored, who I saw as a mentor really.

Your points are equally valid and the simple answer to the question really is no one can say 100% for sure as to anything as to life after death and it is something we will never really know or learn about until we die.

If there is more afterwards than we will know that when we die, it there isn't then there it is, nothing to know further.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Her own and don't be disrespectful as she is not here anymore now.

She never claimed to be intelligent or all knowing, she had a strong religious belief that she never pushed down anyones throats but tried to make some sense of why we are here and what life may be about.

No need at all for your inappropriate sarcasm as to her studying physics.

You equally have nothing but your view that there is nothing, you have not a scrap evidence for that just as those who do and choose to believe in something haven't either.

I wasnt being sarcastic i was just responding. being dead does not magically make you somehow right or wise

It just sounds like normal anecdotal stuff old people used to say in a vacuum of actual scientific evidence and knowledge

as for your last paragraph may i point you to the best scientific knowledge we have over the last 1000 odd years

its kind of persuasive

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Kyle

The problem I see with life being a test is that none of us are under the same set of circumstances.

Some of us are born in the life of Riley where they don't have to do anything all their lives. Some of us are born severely handicapped either physically or mentally or without any chance to get anywhere in life. Some of us die in infancy or even earlier before they get any chance to be tested.

Have you ever known a test like that where everyone gets a diferent exam paper for no reason whatsoever?

Not at the same time,no,but I think we do experience them all
I think we all get different tests Kyle at different times so we ALL experience all those things, for example we all get a life of Riley etc ,at some point,it's how we deal with them that's the test ,we will get good and bad lives on our journey.
Not at the same time,no,but I think we do experience them all on our way .

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I am not saying the descriptive terms used were right Kyle, they were things that were said from her thinking as to making sense of life and the way life is as to human beings.
They were things that I can take on board from someone I adored, who I saw as a mentor really.

Your points are equally valid and the simple answer to the question really is no one can say 100% for sure as to anything as to life after death and it is something we will never really know or learn about until we die.

If there is more afterwards than we will know that when we die, it there isn't then there it is, nothing to know further.

Agree completely. I would not be satisfied with anybody telling me they knew definitively what happens on either side of the debate.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

My Grandmother always used to tell me the sick were here as a test as to the healthy, the poor were here as a test to the rich, the weakest were here as a test to the strong.

How each deal with that and act on that is the universal test.

That doesn't in any way address your infancy argument above however.

Wow Joey,so close to my thinking.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Kyle

Agree completely. I would not be satisfied with anybody telling me they knew definitively what happens on either side of the debate.

The way to look at it kyle is this. we know how humans are born, live and die from a biological point of view. how the brain works, how we learn, see, think, talk, etc and we know that when we die our blood stops flowing, our brain stops working, electrically and biologically and we know we promptly decay.

The evidence is overwhelming and comprehensive to state that nothing happens but oblivion, like before we wee conceived

there is no evidence whatsoever to state anything else

its not a 50/50 thing

its more like a 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999999999 to
0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000001

thing


yes every scientist is open to new evidence when it arrives but as i said this debate is not a 50/50 debate in any way, shape or form

unless any new evidence comes to light and lets just say none is forthcoming and no one is working on any at the mo

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

The way to look at it kyle is this. we know how humans are born, live and die from a biological point of view. how the brain works, how we learn, see, think, talk, etc and we know that when we die our blood stops flowing, our brain stops working, electrically and biologically and we know we promptly decay.

The evidence is overwhelming and comprehensive to state that nothing happens but oblivion, like before we wee conceived

there is no evidence whatsoever to state anything else

its not a 50/50 thing

its more like a 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999999999 to
0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000001

thing


yes every scientist is open to new evidence when it arrives but as i said this debate is not a 50/50 debate in any way, shape or form

unless any new evidence comes to light and lets just say none is forthcoming and no one is working on any at the mo

I'd be more likely to err on the side of nothing happening simply because I look at life from a naturalistic viewpoint and don't see any form of afterlife as necessary but until someone can somehow categorically tell us what happens I don't see the need to clam up and claim definitely nothing happens.

Even if the statistical probability is close to the one you put.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Kyle

Going off on a little tangent but if ghosts were categorically proven to be real would anyone masturbate/have sex again knowing your old Uncle Tony could be at the end of your bed watching?

As long as he was'nt bashing one out.Don't wanna be cleaning up ectoplasm aswell as spunk

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

As long as he was'nt bashing one out.Don't wanna be cleaning up ectoplasm aswell as spunk

aye no bother, you can always call the ghostbusters

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Kyle

I'd be more likely to err on the side of nothing happening simply because I look at life from a naturalistic viewpoint and don't see any form of afterlife as necessary but until someone can somehow categorically tell us what happens I don't see the need to clam up and claim definitely nothing happens.

Even if the statistical probability is close to the one you put.

I think we can safely say that it is highly unlikely based on what we know, hence the reason no one is wasting any time researching it.

also the fact that it arose from religion tells us all we need now anyroad

[the truth]

[QUOTE=Niamh.;8191673]what I do think though is that it's a shame that so many extreme religious people waste their lives hating people for ridiculous reasons and following rules that will make their lives more restricted and less fun when in reality, this is most likely it, our one shot at consciousness and if there was a God who created all this life and our consciousness wouldn't he/she want us to make the most of it anyway?[/QUOTE)

generalized irrelevant nonsense theres loads of different religions and belief systems and youre lumping them all as identicial , stick to the topic

[DemolitionRed]

I believe that because energy can neither be created or destroyed and because our 'live' human body is made up of energy, when our body dies, that energy has to go somewhere and organise itself.

I don't believe we move on in the sense of a whole spirit, but as many billion invisible particles of electrical and metabolic energy. We are are therefore part of the future and our energy is infinite.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

The way to look at it kyle is this. we know how humans are born, live and die from a biological point of view. how the brain works, how we learn, see, think, talk, etc and we know that when we die our blood stops flowing, our brain stops working, electrically and biologically and we know we promptly decay.

The evidence is overwhelming and comprehensive to state that nothing happens but oblivion, like before we wee conceived

there is no evidence whatsoever to state anything else

its not a 50/50 thing

its more like a 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999999999 to
0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000001

thing


yes every scientist is open to new evidence when it arrives but as i said this debate is not a 50/50 debate in any way, shape or form

unless any new evidence comes to light and lets just say none is forthcoming and no one is working on any at the mo

our bodies feed the earth so in that sense we are reborn

our spirit also lives on in the people we leave behind

our little progress has made us arrogant and complacent , religion and Christinaity especially is about moral dilemnas and belief systems as much as anything else....as we lose those we lose our planet as we lose our values....despite claims we understand everything we cannot create life and we still cannot comprehend many things including infinity

[the truth]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I believe that because energy can neither be created or destroyed and because our 'live' human body is made up of energy, when our body dies, that energy has to go somewhere and organise itself.

I don't believe we move on in the sense of a whole spirit, but as many billion invisible particles of electrical and metabolic energy. We are are therefore part of the future and our energy is infinite.

energy in space is seen for millions of years so maybe youre right

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I believe that because energy can neither be created or destroyed and because our 'live' human body is made up of energy, when our body dies, that energy has to go somewhere and organise itself.

I don't believe we move on in the sense of a whole spirit, but as many billion invisible particles of electrical and metabolic energy. We are are therefore part of the future and our energy is infinite.

If our energy was infinite we wouldn't need to eat. We get our energy from food and energy is dispersed via metabolism, when we die we don't eat, we don't have a metabolism, we have nothing, we are dead. Fact.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

If our energy was infinite we wouldn't need to eat. We get our energy from food and energy is dispersed via metabolism, when we die we don't eat, we don't have a metabolism, we have nothing, we are dead. Fact.

[JoshBB]

I don't think you can 100% prove what happens... but I think there's like a 95% chance that what it's like for us when dead is what it's like for before we were born.. nothing. But not 'nothing' in a scary/boring way.. I don't think we'll even know we're dead. Or be able to form thoughts.

[AnnieK]

I have no idea but in the hours before my mum died she sat up lifted her arms as if to hug someone and smiled the most beautiful peaceful smile. She had been unable to communicate or even open her eyes for days and she hadn't been able to sit up for around 2 weeks. I would love to think someone had come to take her spirit to a better place....although my head tells me different, that's what my heart believes. I see no benefit in ridiculing or belittling people's belief. Death is the final separation from loved ones so if people want to believe they will meet again, where's the harm in that. I don't care what can be proven, disproven or anything else....if people take comfort in something in this hell hole of a life, what's the problem?.

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I have no idea but in the hours before my mum died she sat up lifted her arms as if to hug someone and smiled the most beautiful peaceful smile. She had been unable to communicate or even open her eyes for days and she hadn't been able to sit up for around 2 weeks. I would love to think someone had come to take her spirit to a better place....although my head tells me different, that's what my heart believes. I see no benefit in ridiculing or belittling people's belief. Death is the final separation from loved ones so if people want to believe they will meet again, where's the harm in that. I don't care what can be proven, disproven or anything else....if people take comfort in something in this hell hole of a life, what's the problem?.

My sentiments exactly Annie.
Both my mil and my dad were talking to people for a day or two before they died, both intelligent and lucid people as well

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by the truth

generalized irrelevant nonsense theres loads of different religions and belief systems and youre lumping them all as identicial , stick to the topic

Not generalizing at all darling, I did say Extreme religious people, read my posts properly