[arista]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

IDS is a reptile but I'm here for him doing as much damage to the tories as possible.

His job is taken


Do you not Watch Todays updated news
with Interviews.

Move on Dezzy
The Damage is Hype


Fecking Labour
who say no to Nuke Protection
will Never get in Power.
Corbyn - is not valid due to - No Nuke policy


I am Conservative - Liberal

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

IDS is a reptile but I'm here for him doing as much damage to the tories as possible.

I'll go with that!

[user104658]

Originally Posted by arista

His job is taken


Do you not Watch Todays updated news
with Interviews.

Move on Dezzy
The Damage is Hype


Fecking Labour
who say no to Nuke Protection
will Never get in Power.
Corbyn - is not valid due to - No Nuke policy


I am Conservative - Liberal

Whether labour can get into power or not, there's a chance (small as it may be) that enough damage to the Tories will at LEAST make them realise that people are eventually going to wake up to their worst policies, and their under-the-table deals with their rich buddies, so that the party might make a few fundamental changes. That would be better than nothing.

[user104658]

I also don't think the issue of nukes will be entirely relevant for all that much longer, as the generations roll along and people stop trying to apply cold war logic to 21st century defense policies.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Whether labour can get into power or not, there's a chance (small as it may be) that enough damage to the Tories will at LEAST make them realise that people are eventually going to wake up to their worst policies, and their under-the-table deals with their rich buddies, so that the party might make a few fundamental changes. That would be better than nothing.

Sure.

Osborne has Massive Damage.

Should be good on PMQ's on Weds
this week

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Whether labour can get into power or not, there's a chance (small as it may be) that enough damage to the Tories will at LEAST make them realise that people are eventually going to wake up to their worst policies, and their under-the-table deals with their rich buddies, so that the party might make a few fundamental changes. That would be better than nothing.

I really cannot see this going away.
IDS is right until June at least going to be making open and disguised 'digs' at the current Conservative leadership.
The EU referendum, no matter the result, will still be a massive headache for the Conservative party.

I would say arista is right that Labour could not win the next election, not outright anyway,they could get the gains needed to vastly reduce the Conservative seats even with the new boundary changes if they go ahead.

If things carry on as they are,it may even be that Osborne if he remains Chancellor may also be looking at at more austerity for a year or so after 2020.
So obsessed is he with creating an unnecessary surplus.
Which may seem even more unnecessary and misguided by then too.

Also as to Nuclear and Trident, by 2020,the decisions will have been taken and events in place that even Corbyn will have to accept.
I accept your point that the nuclear issue may not be in any as relevant then as it seems to be now.

[user104658]

I actually mean that they're not actually all that relevant now, Joey. They have absolutely no logical place in modern defensive strategy given the way that warfare is going (strategic strikes vs guerilla groups without real nations, rather than nation-on-nation), however they are still largely seen as essential by the older generations who actively remember the peak of, or at least the tail end of, nuclear tensions during the cold war. In a few decades time I think you'll see a much higher proportion of the adult population who feel that billions on nukes is money down the drain.

[DemolitionRed]

Ever since he was elected, Jeremy Corbyn has been saying that a) David Cameron and George Osborne should stop prioritising deficit clearance above all else, no matter the human cost; b) they should stop cutting benefits for working-age claimants while protecting the better off; and c) they show little interest in the lives of people who don’t vote Conservative. Day after day, week after week, Mr Corbyn has made all those points – and yet hardly anyone listened.

Now that Mr Duncan Smith has made the exact same points, however, everyone is listening. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1219...-a-lesson.html

[waterhog]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Ever since he was elected, Jeremy Corbyn has been saying that a) David Cameron and George Osborne should stop prioritising deficit clearance above all else, no matter the human cost; b) they should stop cutting benefits for working-age claimants while protecting the better off; and c) they show little interest in the lives of people who don’t vote Conservative. Day after day, week after week, Mr Corbyn has made all those points – and yet hardly anyone listened.

Now that Mr Duncan Smith has made the exact same points, however, everyone is listening. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1219...-a-lesson.html

I think we are all listening because the point you are missing is that the con partys fundamental rule is to look after and help the rich get richer and not in anyway help the poor.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by waterhog

I think we are all listening because the point you are missing is that the con partys fundamental rule is to look after and help the rich get richer and not in anyway help the poor.

Some of us were listening and now more of us are listening but not everyone will listen. There are still people, even on here who can see no wrong in the conservative party.

[joeysteele]

I think to be fair, this is the truly worst Conservative govt aided fully by the Lib Dems in the years between 2010 and 2015,as to really shocking and in my view unjust policies directed constantly at the mos vulnerable.

I do think,to be fair to them,Conservative govts from 1951 onwards did largely accept the welfare system,worked with it and and at times enhanced it.
Even Margaret Thatchers extreme looking govts still never treated the sick and disabled like this PM and his govt have done.

David Cameron once indicated the old nasty Tory party was gone, well clearly not so and what there is now is a nastier and also greatly more heartless bunch running the current one.
I still say too, it was IDS discriminatory and cruel plans that were adopted by the current leadership from 2010 onwards.

There are many decent MPs in the Conservative party, just when they are going to wake up and take over the party is another matter.

It does have to be added too however, that Tony Blair and his Labour govts failed the most vulnerable too,and when in far better times too.
He and his govts should have ensured that the most vulnerable had protection as to their incomes and other entitlements that were made really secure and near untouchable.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I think to be fair, this is the truly worst Conservative govt aided fully by the Lib Dems in the years between 2010 and 2015,as to really shocking and in my view unjust policies directed constantly at the mos vulnerable.

I do think,to be fair to them,Conservative govts from 1951 onwards did largely accept the welfare system,worked with it and and at times enhanced it.
Even Margaret Thatchers extreme looking govts still never treated the sick and disabled like this PM and his govt have done.

David Cameron once indicated the old nasty Tory party was gone, well clearly not so and what there is now is a nastier and also greatly more heartless bunch running the current one.
I still say too, it was IDS discriminatory and cruel plans that were adopted by the current leadership from 2010 onwards.

There are many decent MPs in the Conservative party, just when they are going to wake up and take over the party is another matter.

It does have to be added too however, that Tony Blair and his Labour govts failed the most vulnerable too,and when in far better times too.
He and his govts should have ensured that the most vulnerable had protection as to their incomes and other entitlements that were made really secure and near untouchable.

I agree

[user104658]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I think to be fair, this is the truly worst Conservative govt aided fully by the Lib Dems in the years between 2010 and 2015,as to really shocking and in my view unjust policies directed constantly at the mos vulnerable.

I do think,to be fair to them,Conservative govts from 1951 onwards did largely accept the welfare system,worked with it and and at times enhanced it.
Even Margaret Thatchers extreme looking govts still never treated the sick and disabled like this PM and his govt have done.

David Cameron once indicated the old nasty Tory party was gone, well clearly not so and what there is now is a nastier and also greatly more heartless bunch running the current one.
I still say too, it was IDS discriminatory and cruel plans that were adopted by the current leadership from 2010 onwards.

There are many decent MPs in the Conservative party, just when they are going to wake up and take over the party is another matter.

It does have to be added too however, that Tony Blair and his Labour govts failed the most vulnerable too,and when in far better times too.
He and his govts should have ensured that the most vulnerable had protection as to their incomes and other entitlements that were made really secure and near untouchable.

Yeah, they've achieved what a few years so was unthinkable; the history books will look back on Thatcher as merely a precursor to something worse.

[MTVN]

Except inequality actually narrowed under the coalition and that government had a pretty good record on child poverty. I find it strange to talk about the welfare state being stronger under Thatcher when the state had changed so much by 2010 that the available welfare provisions were far greater in the last government than they ever were pre-Blair.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Except inequality actually narrowed under the coalition and that government had a pretty good record on child poverty. I find it strange to talk about the welfare state being stronger under Thatcher when the state had changed so much by 2010 that the available welfare provisions were far greater in the last government than they ever were pre-Blair.

It's not really about what's available so much as what they are attempting to do / what their desires are. Which is to dismantle the state to the extent that the only people who are protected from a potentially massive decline in living standards are the rich. It's not just about welfare, it's the entire philosophy of privitisation, and the removal / destruction of public services of all kinds.

[waterhog]

we all got crabs now omg

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's not really about what's available so much as what they are attempting to do / what their desires are. Which is to dismantle the state to the extent that the only people who are protected from a potentially massive decline in living standards are the rich. It's not just about welfare, it's the entire philosophy of privitisation, and the removal / destruction of public services of all kinds.

Absolutely agree. Its about the neo-liberal ideal. Thatcher fired the starting pistol and every government since her, including Labour (especially Blair) have built up from her foundations. What we are seeing here is a government on a race to the finishing line.

The trouble is, Cameron misread his own party! One of the first principles of a neoliberal state is: We must all be in this together (apart from the poor and destitute but then who cares about them).

Which just proves that Cameron is rather stupid. That's good, I like my enemies stupid.

[Kizzy]

I was really happy initially and then I was annoyed, he's just the first to admit he's made his contribution to the destruction of the welfare system as well as sh*tloads of money and is now heading for the hills pointing fingers at everyone else but himself for every unpopular decision made. He's never going to be leader again so he is effectively just freed himself up to concentrate on the next destructive venture, Europe.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I was really happy initially and then I was annoyed, he's just the first to admit he's made his contribution to the destruction of the welfare system as well as sh*tloads of money and is now heading for the hills pointing fingers at everyone else but himself for every unpopular decision made. He's never going to be leader again so he is effectively just freed himself up to concentrate on the next destructive venture, Europe.

I don't know, I think he's sort of shot himself in the foot a bit. I think he was maybe trying to say "Hey look everyone, I'm a nice, honest, caring guy after all!" but, if we are to believe that's true, we must also believe something else. That he has been weak, ineffective, and easily lead and controlled and scapegoated by the people he's now pointing the finger at. He's utterly sabotaged any image of himself as a strong, capable politician who won't simply be lead by the next "bigger boy" who tells him what to do.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I don't know, I think he's sort of shot himself in the foot a bit. I think he was maybe trying to say "Hey look everyone, I'm a nice, honest, caring guy after all!" but, if we are to believe that's true, we must also believe something else. That he has been weak, ineffective, and easily lead and controlled and scapegoated by the people he's now pointing the finger at. He's utterly sabotaged any image of himself as a strong, capable politician who won't simply be lead by the next "bigger boy" who tells him what to do.

In this game of imperialistic sims he has played a blinder, the wealth is safely funneled to the top and he will be congratulated on that by those whose opinion he respects. The rest of us? Inconsequential.

[DemolitionRed]

I agree with the both of you. I'm another one who went through a curb of emotions about this guy but all I'm left with is anger. Too many people have already suffered in this mans hands; too many people have become homeless or destitute and too many people have died as a result of his policies.

[DemolitionRed]

This is a hilarious article!

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/mar/20/pri…

[michael21]

what will he do now I wonder

[bots]

Originally Posted by michael21

what will he do now I wonder

Back Boris for leader at a guess

[michael21]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Back Boris for leader at a guess

bloody hell