[Braden]

I really don't mean to be rude Jack, honestly.

[reece(:]

I judged Winston McKenzie on his outside antics, it's the whole reason he was put in in the first place

You can't leave preconceptions at the door with some!

[Braden]

Originally Posted by reece(:

I judged Winston McKenzie on his outside antics, it's the whole reason he was put in in the first place

You can't leave preconceptions at the door with some!

Yeah, this brings up another good point.

There's normally a task at the beginning of the series where everyone has to correlate the fact to the housemate? That also goes against the main objective of only judging people from what goes on inside the house because some of them influence the dynamics of the house. As proven with Winston last year.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Braden

I'm stopping here because I'm tired of walking around the circle I'm currently at with you. The main point of what I was saying is that people are allowed to react to this news without you criticising their opinion because that's clearly the problem. The majority of people on here dislike him. You don't. If a hate figure (and Frankie was a hate figure as far as BBUS goes) is said to be going on CBB, people are allowed to react to that news negatively. I think that's what's annoyed people with your reaction because it's almost like you're denying them the right to their opinion at this current moment.

Charlotte and Scotty T are the examples I can think of off the top of my head when it comes to my second point. I could make a good argument that they both won based on their fanbases from Geordie Shore, which completely goes against the point your trying to make about people judging them solely on what happens in the house. Ricci was different because he wasn't actually liked by the majority of Geordie Shore viewers to begin with, so him not doing well also makes sense.

Please refer me to the point where I criticised anyone for disliking Frankie? In fact my first post in this thread was a response to someone criticising people for liking him (all before the show has even begun!) and that's what started this whole debate. All throughout this thread I have said over and over that I understand people criticising him and him being casted, and not once have I said they aren't allowed to do so - in fact I've made a point of saying the opposite. Claiming I've done so would be a lie.

I now understand what you're saying regarding your other point, but that still doesn't negate what I'm saying - in fact it gives weight to it. I constantly complain about the influence the Geordie Shore fanbase has on reality show results and I've been saying so all this series about Alex (and thankfully I was wrong), I completely disagree with people succeeding or failing based on things that have happened outside of the confines of the house and show and this is case in point. I know full well the voting public are guilty of this and that's why I complain about some of their idiotic voting patterns. This is the argument I'm making - it shouldn't be this way. And just because it is it doesn't mean I'm going to suck it up, hop on the bandwagon and start using my preconceptions of celebrities to judge what they're actually like as housemates too, because then I would also be part of the problem.

Is it going to change? Probably not, certainly not on the wider scale of public votes, but I'm still entitled to say that I think it's stupid to judge housemates on things that have happened outside of the house when that goes against the point of the show - because it is.

Originally Posted by reece(:

I judged Winston McKenzie on his outside antics, it's the whole reason he was put in in the first place

You can't leave preconceptions at the door with some!

I agree that some if not most celebrities are casted for reasons pertaining to their life outside of the house, how else would you decide who to cast for a CBB? But that doesn't mean the same things need to be used to judge them as housemates on the actual show.

Even in the minds of the casting directors I'm sure they are aware there's a good chance some of them may not live up to their persona, such is the downfall of preconceptions - and that some may exceed expectations. That's the beauty of Celebrity Big Brother especially, to see how different people are to what you'd expect them to be. But to continue judging them on their life outside of the house instead of the one ongoing on the television show you're watching just makes the whole exercise pointless. We may as well look at the cast list, decide who has the cleanest background and then crown them the winner and not bother doing the series - in fact if that spares us yet another CBB series maybe that's for the best?

[Braden]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Please refer me to the point where I criticised anyone for disliking Frankie? In fact my first post in this thread was a response to someone criticising people for liking him (all before the show has even begun!) and that's what started this whole debate. All throughout this thread I have said over and over that I understand people criticising him and him being casted, and not once have I said they aren't allowed to do so - in fact I've made a point of saying the opposite. Claiming I've done so would be a lie.

I now understand what you're saying regarding your other point, but that still doesn't negate what I'm saying - in fact it gives weight to it. I constantly complain about the influence the Geordie Shore fanbase has on reality show results and I've been saying so all this series about Alex (and thankfully I was wrong), I completely disagree with people succeeding or failing based on things that have happened outside of the confines of the house and show and this is case in point. I know full well the voting public are guilty of this and that's why I complain about some of their idiotic voting patterns. This is the argument I'm making - it shouldn't be this way. And just because it is it doesn't mean I'm going to suck it up, hop on the bandwagon and start using my preconceptions of celebrities to judge what they're actually like as housemates too, because then I would also be part of the problem.

Is it going to change? Probably not, certainly not on the wider scale of public votes, but I'm still entitled to say that I think it's stupid to judge housemates on things that have happened outside of the house when that goes against the point of the show - because it is.

By telling people to forget their 'preconceptions', you're ultimately criticising their right to dislike Frankie at this moment in time (imo at least). Just let people think the way they want to think. If people's views change it will because of themselves. Not you. That's the main point of what I'm trying to say. You don't need to teach people how to watch the show.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Braden

By telling people to forget their 'preconceptions', you're ultimately criticising their right to dislike Frankie at this moment in time (imo at least). Just let people think the way they want to think. If people's views change it will because of themselves. Not you. That's the main point of what I'm trying to say. You don't need to teach people how to watch the show.

Perhaps that word doesn't apply to Frankie given the circumstances but that's pointless semantics. I'm telling you - the person who is typing these posts - that my intention is not to criticise people disliking Frankie, or telling them they aren't allowed to object to him being casted. So that's how it stands.

No, if people's views change it will be because Frankie is different on CBB to how he was on BB16 - and that's precisely my point. I'm not teaching anyone how to watch the show, merely pointing out that it is stupid and futile to judge housemates based on things that happened outside the confines of the house, otherwise we may as well not do the show. Nothing more, nothing less. And I'm entitled to do so, people don't have to listen or respond if they don't want.

[Braden]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Perhaps that word doesn't apply to Frankie given the circumstances but that's pointless semantics. I'm telling you - the person who is typing these posts - that my intention is not to criticise people disliking Frankie, or telling them they aren't allowed to object to him being casted. So that's how it stands.

No, if people's views change it will be because Frankie is different on CBB to how he was on BB16 - and that's precisely my point. I'm not teaching anyone how to watch the show, merely pointing out that it is stupid and futile to judge housemates based on things that happened outside the confines of the house, otherwise we may as well not do the show. Nothing more, nothing less. And I'm entitled to do so, people don't have to listen or respond if they don't want.

And I'm telling you (the person who is reading and replying to your posts), that's how it's coming across. If you want to end it here with your intention clear then that would be great.

Your main ideal from this was to tell people to 'leave their preconception at the door', so to now say ' if people's views change it will be because Frankie is different on CBB to how he was on BB16' just makes our whole debate redundant. You shouldn't have told people to not judge him based on BB16. We wouldn't be having this conversation otherwise. It's not stupid to judge people base don their actions outside of the show, because in that case people could potentially be championing racists, homophobics, sexists, etc. You're entitles to say what you like, but don't be surprised if people get annoyed if they feel like you're telling to process something the same way you do. We're all different. Your outlook on the show is different o other people's. There's no right and wrong and many people have repsonded in this htread to say they have every right to judge Frankie beforehand.

[EspeonBB]

People watched Frankie on a 90+ reality show with a 24/7 live feed too. I think it's fair enough people judge him based on that

[Braden]

Originally Posted by EspeonBB

People watched Frankie on a 90+ reality show with a 24/7 live feed too. I think it's fair enough people judge him based on that

That's why I don't really like the word 'preconceived' because by definition '(of an idea or opinion) formed before having the evidence for its truth or usefulness.', but the truth and usefulness was there for 24/7 live feed on BBUS.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by EspeonBB

People watched Frankie on a 90+ reality show with a 24/7 live feed too. I think it's fair enough people judge him based on that

I've never once said people can't judge him, or can't dislike him, or can't say they don't want him to be cast for CBB. I understand why they wouldn't

My point is more that if he does end up on the show, to judge him on his time on BB16 rather than what he's doing in the CBB house right now would be utterly pointless, we may as well not do the series

[Ashsleigh]

Hopefully they made a mistake and it's actually Saira Khan going in

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Ashley.

Hopefully they made a mistake and it's actually Saira Khan going in

[Drew.]

I recognise most of them which is a good start. I really like Marnie, she's one of the only ones on that list who i've seen a lot of. She's far better than any of the other Geordie Shore lot who have appeared on CBB/IAC

[Ashsleigh]

At least it's only thirteen celebrities this time, even if they're all arseholes.

[Liam-]

Biggins and Frankie? I'm going to be homophobic by the end of this series.

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Biggins and Frankie? I'm going to be homophobic by the end of this series.

[Drew.]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Biggins and Frankie? I'm going to be homophobic by the end of this series.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Braden

And I'm telling you (the person who is reading and replying to your posts), that's how it's coming across. If you want to end it here with your intention clear then that would be great.

Your main ideal from this was to tell people to 'leave their preconception at the door', so to now say ' if people's views change it will be because Frankie is different on CBB to how he was on BB16' just makes our whole debate redundant. You shouldn't have told people to not judge him based on BB16. We wouldn't be having this conversation otherwise. It's not stupid to judge people base don their actions outside of the show, because in that case people could potentially be championing racists, homophobics, sexists, etc. You're entitles to say what you like, but don't be surprised if people get annoyed if they feel like you're telling to process something the same way you do. We're all different. Your outlook on the show is different o other people's. There's no right and wrong and many people have repsonded in this htread to say they have every right to judge Frankie beforehand.

Well I've made my intention clear on numerous occasions throughout this thread, constantly making a point of saying I'm not telling people they aren't allowed to criticise Frankie based off what they already know, or even oppose him being casted. If you or anyone else fails to see that, it is because you are not reading the posts properly.

It doesn't make it redundant at all, those two quotes go hand in hand with one another. If people leave their preconceptions of all of the housemates at the door they may indeed find that they like people more or less than they thought they would, and that includes Frankie. In fact, I've said that he may be different from his time on BB16 on several occasions in this thread:

Originally Posted by Jack_

Why don't you wait to judge him on a clean slate, he might be different

Originally Posted by Jack_

There's nothing to suggest he has stayed the same either, nobody knows him or has access to live feeds of his life so it's pointless conjecture.

Originally Posted by Jack_

If he's as 'awful' as before the fine, but in theory there is no reason why he can't act differently this time around

Again, if posts were read properly you'd have seen this.

Unless said housemates are racist, homophobic etc etc on the show then I don't see how it's relevant. Yes I'm sure I'll be greeted with 'welp' and 'OMG' type responses but it's true. Do I oppose these kinds of people being casted? Absolutely, their vetting process as history shows is really quite poor. But once they're on they're on, and if they were aware of said history and still wanted to cast them then that's their choice. To then judge them as housemates based off of things that happened outside of the house takes away from the point of the programme, and as I said we may as well just decide who's got the cleanest record now and crown them the winner. They may be racist or homophobic on the show (i.e. Winston) and by all means criticise them, but they may not (i.e. Andrew) and therefore it's pointless to

I'm aware my outlook on the show is different to other people's - believe me after years of becoming a minority on here I'm well aware of that - but I'm still entitled to say that I think judging housemates for things they've done outside of the house itself is stupid. No one has to agree, no one has to listen, no one has to respond. But this is a forum and if that's my opinion, I will say so.

Finally...

Originally Posted by Braden

many people have repsonded in this htread to say they have every right to judge Frankie beforehand.

See, again! I have no idea how many more times I'm going to have to say that I've never once said people aren't allowed to judge Frankie or oppose him being casted before people start paying attention. This is now twice in one post I've said the same thing ffs

[Braden]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Well I've made my intention clear on numerous occasions throughout this thread, constantly making a point of saying I'm not telling people they aren't allowed to criticise Frankie based off what they already know, or even oppose him being casted. If you or anyone else fails to see that, it is because you are not reading the posts properly.

It doesn't make it redundant at all, those two quotes go hand in hand with one another. If people leave their preconceptions of all of the housemates at the door they may indeed find that they like people more or less than they thought they would, and that includes Frankie. In fact, I've said that he may be different from his time on BB16 on several occasions in this thread:







Again, if posts were read properly you'd have seen this.

Unless said housemates are racist, homophobic etc etc on the show then I don't see how it's relevant. Yes I'm sure I'll be greeted with 'welp' and 'OMG' type responses but it's true. Do I oppose these kinds of people being casted? Absolutely, their vetting process as history shows is really quite poor. But once they're on they're on, and if they were aware of said history and still wanted to cast them then that's their choice. To then judge them as housemates based off of things that happened outside of the house takes away from the point of the programme, and as I said we may as well just decide who's got the cleanest record now and crown them the winner. They may be racist or homophobic on the show (i.e. Winston) and by all means criticise them, but they may not (i.e. Andrew) and therefore it's pointless to

I'm aware my outlook on the show is different to other people's - believe me after years of becoming a minority on here I'm well aware of that - but I'm still entitled to say that I think judging housemates for things they've done outside of the house itself is stupid. No one has to agree, no one has to listen, no one has to respond. But this is a forum and if that's my opinion, I will say so.

Finally...



See, again! I have no idea how many more times I'm going to have to say that I've never once said people aren't allowed to judge Frankie or oppose him being casted before people start paying attention. This is now twice in one post I've said the same thing ffs

There's a lot I could say but I'm just going to tell you that you're right.

There was no offense or rudeness implemented in this by the way. That's all I'm going to say.

[Rob!]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Biggins and Frankie? I'm going to be homophobic by the end of this series.

[Braden]

Frankie is loving all of this ():

[Heaven = Winner]

All of the females (bar like two) could be potentially great

[FaLaLaLand]

Originally Posted by Heaven = Winner

All of the females (bar like two) could be potentially great

Agreed! I can see Helen being quiet and Sam could go either way but the others are bound to cause some sort of stir.

[Marsh.]

Marge Simpson to win!

[Alf]

Jamie Vardy lookalike Lee Chapman to be the 14th

I've seen the name Lee Chapman in the bookies odds, at first I thought it was the former footballer whose married to Lesley Ash. But looking on google, It came up with a Jamie Vardy Lookalike called Lee Chapman.