[Jason.]

Who is this Frankie Grande guy? If I'm not mistaken, he was a HM on BBUS?

I'm assuming he's also related to Ariana Grande hence the sirname but that's all I know of him.

[EspeonBB]

Originally Posted by Jason.

I want Selina, Lady C, Zara Holland and this Natalie person for CBB19 in January!

They're saving the stars for the winter series when more people watch

[Braden]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I'm not telling people not to have certain thoughts prior to the show, nor am I telling anyone they're not allowed to think negatively about Frankie Grande until that point. You are completely missing what I'm saying. I am saying that not wanting him or other people you have preconceived ideas on to be cast is understandable, I don't like people like Iain Duncan Smith and Kay Burley for example and wouldn't want them to enter. I get that. I get why people don't like him based off his previous appearance on BBUS. I get why people don't want him on CBB.

All I'm saying is that if it does indeed turn out that he goes in, people should leave the preconceptions they have of everyone at the door and judge them as the housemates that they are within the confines of the Big Brother house, as if they're civilians nobody knows (using my example I would judge Iain and Kay as housemates in exactly the same way). I don't understand why you think that lost its meaning a long time ago? The premise is still the same regardless of what changes they've made to production - if that's what you're referring to

I'm stopping here because I'm tired of walking around the circle I'm currently at with you. The main point of what I was saying is that people are allowed to react to this news without you criticising their opinion because that's clearly the problem. The majority of people on here dislike him. You don't. If a hate figure (and Frankie was a hate figure as far as BBUS goes) is said to be going on CBB, people are allowed to react to that news negatively. I think that's what's annoyed people with your reaction because it's almost like you're denying them the right to their opinion at this current moment.

Charlotte and Scotty T are the examples I can think of off the top of my head when it comes to my second point. I could make a good argument that they both won based on their fanbases from Geordie Shore, which completely goes against the point your trying to make about people judging them solely on what happens in the house. Ricci was different because he wasn't actually liked by the majority of Geordie Shore viewers to begin with, so him not doing well also makes sense.

[Jason.]

Originally Posted by EspeonBB

They're saving the stars for the winter series when more people watch

[Braden]

I really don't mean to be rude Jack, honestly.

[VanessaFeltz.]

Originally Posted by Jason.

Who is this Frankie Grande guy? If I'm not mistaken, he was a HM on BBUS?

I'm assuming he's also related to Ariana Grande hence the sirname but that's all I know of him.

He is like Helen&Marc's unborn son

[Headie]

Originally Posted by Jason.

Who is this Frankie Grande guy? If I'm not mistaken, he was a HM on BBUS?

I'm assuming he's also related to Ariana Grande hence the sirname but that's all I know of him.

He's pretty much BBUS's equivalent to Conor McIntyre

[reece(:]

I judged Winston McKenzie on his outside antics, it's the whole reason he was put in in the first place

You can't leave preconceptions at the door with some!

[Jason.]

Originally Posted by MelihV

He is like Helen&Marc's unborn son

Originally Posted by Hayden

He's pretty much BBUS's equivalent to Conor McIntyre

Kill it with fire

Is he worse than the likes of Aaryn Gries and Evel Dick?

Originally Posted by reece(:

I judged Winston McKenzie on his outside antics, it's the whole reason he was put in in the first place

You can't leave preconceptions at the door with some!

That's true. Some housemates are cast just for how they are on the outside. For example, Katie Hopkins. She was cast for controversy so she could be just as controversial inside the house as she is on the outside.

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Jason.

Who is this Frankie Grande guy? If I'm not mistaken, he was a HM on BBUS?

I'm assuming he's also related to Ariana Grande hence the sirname but that's all I know of him.

I think of him as Perez Hilton possessed by a demon. He's that bad.

[Braden]

Originally Posted by reece(:

I judged Winston McKenzie on his outside antics, it's the whole reason he was put in in the first place

You can't leave preconceptions at the door with some!

Yeah, this brings up another good point.

There's normally a task at the beginning of the series where everyone has to correlate the fact to the housemate? That also goes against the main objective of only judging people from what goes on inside the house because some of them influence the dynamics of the house. As proven with Winston last year.

[Jason.]

Originally Posted by Lostie!

I think of him as Perez Hilton possessed by a demon. He's that bad.

[EspeonBB]

People watched Frankie on a 90+ reality show with a 24/7 live feed too. I think it's fair enough people judge him based on that

[Braden]

Originally Posted by EspeonBB

People watched Frankie on a 90+ reality show with a 24/7 live feed too. I think it's fair enough people judge him based on that

That's why I don't really like the word 'preconceived' because by definition '(of an idea or opinion) formed before having the evidence for its truth or usefulness.', but the truth and usefulness was there for 24/7 live feed on BBUS.

[Ashley.]

Hopefully they made a mistake and it's actually Saira Khan going in

[Drew.]

I recognise most of them which is a good start. I really like Marnie, she's one of the only ones on that list who i've seen a lot of. She's far better than any of the other Geordie Shore lot who have appeared on CBB/IAC

[Headie]

Originally Posted by Jason.

Kill it with fire

Is he worse than the likes of Aaryn Gries and Evel Dick?

He's amongst them as the worse, hard to choose the worst of a bad bunch though.

He's effectively a camera***** obsessed with being famous, and made rape jokes whilst he was on BBUS.

[Ashley.]

At least it's only thirteen celebrities this time, even if they're all arseholes.

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Ashley.

Hopefully they made a mistake and it's actually Saira Khan going in

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Braden

I'm stopping here because I'm tired of walking around the circle I'm currently at with you. The main point of what I was saying is that people are allowed to react to this news without you criticising their opinion because that's clearly the problem. The majority of people on here dislike him. You don't. If a hate figure (and Frankie was a hate figure as far as BBUS goes) is said to be going on CBB, people are allowed to react to that news negatively. I think that's what's annoyed people with your reaction because it's almost like you're denying them the right to their opinion at this current moment.

Charlotte and Scotty T are the examples I can think of off the top of my head when it comes to my second point. I could make a good argument that they both won based on their fanbases from Geordie Shore, which completely goes against the point your trying to make about people judging them solely on what happens in the house. Ricci was different because he wasn't actually liked by the majority of Geordie Shore viewers to begin with, so him not doing well also makes sense.

Please refer me to the point where I criticised anyone for disliking Frankie? In fact my first post in this thread was a response to someone criticising people for liking him (all before the show has even begun!) and that's what started this whole debate. All throughout this thread I have said over and over that I understand people criticising him and him being casted, and not once have I said they aren't allowed to do so - in fact I've made a point of saying the opposite. Claiming I've done so would be a lie.

I now understand what you're saying regarding your other point, but that still doesn't negate what I'm saying - in fact it gives weight to it. I constantly complain about the influence the Geordie Shore fanbase has on reality show results and I've been saying so all this series about Alex (and thankfully I was wrong), I completely disagree with people succeeding or failing based on things that have happened outside of the confines of the house and show and this is case in point. I know full well the voting public are guilty of this and that's why I complain about some of their idiotic voting patterns. This is the argument I'm making - it shouldn't be this way. And just because it is it doesn't mean I'm going to suck it up, hop on the bandwagon and start using my preconceptions of celebrities to judge what they're actually like as housemates too, because then I would also be part of the problem.

Is it going to change? Probably not, certainly not on the wider scale of public votes, but I'm still entitled to say that I think it's stupid to judge housemates on things that have happened outside of the house when that goes against the point of the show - because it is.

Originally Posted by reece(:

I judged Winston McKenzie on his outside antics, it's the whole reason he was put in in the first place

You can't leave preconceptions at the door with some!

I agree that some if not most celebrities are casted for reasons pertaining to their life outside of the house, how else would you decide who to cast for a CBB? But that doesn't mean the same things need to be used to judge them as housemates on the actual show.

Even in the minds of the casting directors I'm sure they are aware there's a good chance some of them may not live up to their persona, such is the downfall of preconceptions - and that some may exceed expectations. That's the beauty of Celebrity Big Brother especially, to see how different people are to what you'd expect them to be. But to continue judging them on their life outside of the house instead of the one ongoing on the television show you're watching just makes the whole exercise pointless. We may as well look at the cast list, decide who has the cleanest background and then crown them the winner and not bother doing the series - in fact if that spares us yet another CBB series maybe that's for the best?

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by EspeonBB

People watched Frankie on a 90+ reality show with a 24/7 live feed too. I think it's fair enough people judge him based on that

I've never once said people can't judge him, or can't dislike him, or can't say they don't want him to be cast for CBB. I understand why they wouldn't

My point is more that if he does end up on the show, to judge him on his time on BB16 rather than what he's doing in the CBB house right now would be utterly pointless, we may as well not do the series

[Liam-]

Biggins and Frankie? I'm going to be homophobic by the end of this series.

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Biggins and Frankie? I'm going to be homophobic by the end of this series.

[Braden]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Please refer me to the point where I criticised anyone for disliking Frankie? In fact my first post in this thread was a response to someone criticising people for liking him (all before the show has even begun!) and that's what started this whole debate. All throughout this thread I have said over and over that I understand people criticising him and him being casted, and not once have I said they aren't allowed to do so - in fact I've made a point of saying the opposite. Claiming I've done so would be a lie.

I now understand what you're saying regarding your other point, but that still doesn't negate what I'm saying - in fact it gives weight to it. I constantly complain about the influence the Geordie Shore fanbase has on reality show results and I've been saying so all this series about Alex (and thankfully I was wrong), I completely disagree with people succeeding or failing based on things that have happened outside of the confines of the house and show and this is case in point. I know full well the voting public are guilty of this and that's why I complain about some of their idiotic voting patterns. This is the argument I'm making - it shouldn't be this way. And just because it is it doesn't mean I'm going to suck it up, hop on the bandwagon and start using my preconceptions of celebrities to judge what they're actually like as housemates too, because then I would also be part of the problem.

Is it going to change? Probably not, certainly not on the wider scale of public votes, but I'm still entitled to say that I think it's stupid to judge housemates on things that have happened outside of the house when that goes against the point of the show - because it is.

By telling people to forget their 'preconceptions', you're ultimately criticising their right to dislike Frankie at this moment in time (imo at least). Just let people think the way they want to think. If people's views change it will because of themselves. Not you. That's the main point of what I'm trying to say. You don't need to teach people how to watch the show.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Braden

By telling people to forget their 'preconceptions', you're ultimately criticising their right to dislike Frankie at this moment in time (imo at least). Just let people think the way they want to think. If people's views change it will because of themselves. Not you. That's the main point of what I'm trying to say. You don't need to teach people how to watch the show.

Perhaps that word doesn't apply to Frankie given the circumstances but that's pointless semantics. I'm telling you - the person who is typing these posts - that my intention is not to criticise people disliking Frankie, or telling them they aren't allowed to object to him being casted. So that's how it stands.

No, if people's views change it will be because Frankie is different on CBB to how he was on BB16 - and that's precisely my point. I'm not teaching anyone how to watch the show, merely pointing out that it is stupid and futile to judge housemates based on things that happened outside the confines of the house, otherwise we may as well not do the show. Nothing more, nothing less. And I'm entitled to do so, people don't have to listen or respond if they don't want.