[bots]

A boy aged 16 has been arrested over a homophobic attack which left two women covered in blood after refusing to kiss on a bus.

Melania Geymonat, 28, said the attack on her and partner Chris happened on the top deck of a London night bus.

A group of young men began harassing them when they discovered the women were a couple, asking them to kiss while making sexual gestures.

Four other males aged between 15 and 18 remain in custody, the Met said.

They are being questioned on suspicion of robbery and aggravated grievous bodily harm.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-48566800

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I just can't see that the element motivated by their sexuality is hatred or fear or disgust which to me are essential components of homophobia.

I get where you are coming from but..I know dislike/hatred it technically the definition of homophobia, but I would also probably say the likes of fetishisation are on very dodgy ground. I don't really mean like, men who like lesbian porn as that would mean half the male population was homophobic, but when they transfer that to real life..I don't know how to explain what I mean here to be honest. Mind, I also guess that part could be pure old male entitlement also, thinking that basically, people just exist to get them off.

I still think this is a mix of homophobia, miosgyny and male entitlement, all in one lovely ****ing mix. I do think theres a chance these lads would have done it to any female couple sat there, be they partners or friends, but, even that has an element of homophobia to it in my eyes because they are..well basically assuming that women who might/do have attaraction to other women are there for their enjoyment, nothing else, and are willing to physically attack them when the women say no. If gay men had been attacked for being presumed to be gay, even if they were straight, the intent was to beat a couple of gay people so while the attack would not be homophobc due to, well the victims not being gay, the thought behind the attack was homophobic. If that make sense. I wonder if in that case..the prosecution would actually have the hate crime element, as the intent was there, just they were mistaken in their victim choice? Not something I have thought about before.

[user104658]

I guess I might be being pedantic in saying that not all prejudice is phobia and I personally think it confuses a very delicate issue to, I guess, lump things in as "all the same". The issue I guess is that I can't think of an - ism for LGBT issues like this to illustrate. It's definitely "Homosexualityism" but that word doesn't exist?

I guess to use race as a comparison... ALL xenophobia is racism. Not every incidence of racism is rooted in xenophobia. And the meanings of the two words are not identical. This is definitely the equivalent of racism, but not necessarily the equivalent of xenophobia.

[Ammi]

...institutionalised homophobia, internalised homophobia and etc...’homophobia’ is all encompassing of many prejudices, intolerances and ‘hates’ which are obviously related in sexualities...but to use the word in this case I think is accurate in the weight it carries and is in no way a misuse...


....anyways it’s not something I want to get involved in ‘pedantic’ about just because I personally think that does devalue in its distraction...

[Ammi]

...it’s really hard to think how such young people in 2019...can have so much intolerance of sexuality instilled in their mindsets ..?...as is the same when we hear of racism in the same way...terrifying....

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...it’s really hard to think how such young people in 2019...can have so much intolerance of sexuality instilled in their mindsets ..?...as is the same when we hear of racism in the same way...terrifying....

yes it is, I thought we were moving forward but it like we are stuck or even going into reverse

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

yes it is, I thought we were moving forward but it like we are stuck or even going into reverse

It's been ingrained for so long that I think it just plateau'd decades ago. We reached the point where everyone who really believes in equality openly wants it, and then for a while we pushed past into an era where the ones who deep down never wanted it still "went along with it" and were (quite rightly) embarrassed by their opinions but now that thread has broken and the types of people who never really wanted it will just happily and openly declare it.

Social media has played a huge part - showing people that they're not alone in their toxic views so they feel supported in sharing them - but crap like Trump winning the presidency and the popularity of the likes of Tommy Robinson have really finished it off. "PC" is officially dead, just as some people wanted, and these are the effects.

The truth is that people are VULNERABLE out in the world. Especially women, and gay couples, and other minorities. The only thing protecting anyone when it comes right down to it, is social etiquette, and that's being eroded by the day. What's left when people don't feel ashamed to do and say whatever the hell they want? The thin illusion that the authorities or the government can actually protect anyone meaningfully slips away like it never existed. The worst kind of anarchy.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...it’s really hard to think how such young people in 2019...can have so much intolerance of sexuality instilled in their mindsets ..?...as is the same when we hear of racism in the same way...terrifying....

Yes its very depressing.

[arista]

5 young punks arrested

[Tom4784]

I think it's splitting hairs debating if this was homophobia or not, these women were attacked because of their sexuality, that's all that matters. If you chose to attack someone because of their sexuality then that makes you a homophobe in my eyes.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I think it's splitting hairs debating if this was homophobia or not, these women were attacked because of their sexuality, that's all that matters. If you chose to attack someone because of their sexuality then that makes you a homophobe in my eyes.

I don't think it's splitting hairs when there are a hell of a lot of men out there who will happily put this down to being "a terrible LGBT issue" and happily brush aside the threatening atmosphere that women face when confronted by groups of men every single day, just because they're female.

[Parmy]

Did they go out looking to attack a lesbian couple....I doubt it..


They attacked though, i think this is more a psychological issue more than a direct and targeted attack on the gay community.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Did they go out looking to attack a lesbian couple....I doubt it..


They attacked though, i think this is more a psychological issue more than a direct and targeted attack on the gay community.

Is there a difference?

No, they didn't go out on the hunt for a gay couple to attack. But, they still attacked a gay couple... for being gay. The difference doesn't change anything.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Is there a difference?

No, they didn't go out on the hunt for a gay couple to attack. But, they still attacked a gay couple... for being gay. The difference doesn't change anything.

Could easily have been an old man that had told them to show some respect.

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Could easily have been an old man that had told them to show some respect.

Did you miss the part where they demanded the lesbian couple kiss for their amusement?

No it couldn’t have easily been an old man

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Smithy

Did you miss the part where they demanded the lesbian couple kiss for their amusement?

No it couldn’t have easily been an old man

It could have been, if he was sat where they were and turned and told them to shut up...

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Could easily have been an old man that had told them to show some respect.

Their hostility towards gays was pre existing. Opportunity to act on it presented itself and they took it.

But also what kind of a man beats up women?

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Their hostility towards gays was pre existing. Opportunity to act on it presented itself and they took it.

But also what kind of a man beats up women?

The same kind that would be at up and old man that told them to shut up in front of thier mates.

[armand.kay]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Could easily have been an old man that had told them to show some respect.

Well it wasn't was it? It was a lesbian couple minding their business before being subjected to misogynist and homophobic harassment. ****ing hell why are you trying to derail from this??

[reece(:]

Originally Posted by parmnion

They attacked though, i think this is more a psychological issue more than a direct and targeted attack on the gay community.

I'd say the only vulnerable ones were the ones left blooded and scarred. Ridiculous to suggest this was not homophobic attack!

[sleleen]

Originally Posted by reece(:

I'd say the only vulnerable ones were the ones left blooded and scarred. Ridiculous to suggest this was not homophobic attack!

[user104658]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Did they go out looking to attack a lesbian couple....I doubt it..


They attacked though, i think this is more a psychological issue more than a direct and targeted attack on the gay community.

Psychological in a sense but we're in the realms of social psychology here not individual psychology. Gang mentality, bystander apathy, boasting and displays of "power". These individuals are not mentally ill.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Psychological in a sense but we're in the realms of social psychology here not individual psychology. Gang mentality, bystander apathy, boasting and displays of "power". These individuals are not mentally ill.

But they are immature enough to react violently if they are somehow belittled in front of thier mates...like when they refused to kiss...


Same would have happened if an old bloke had pulled them up for swearing or something..

Imo..there wasn't an attack until the couple started standing thier ground, making the mockers turn volent to save face.

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by parmnion

But they are immature enough to react violently if they are somehow belittled in front of thier mates...like when they refused to kiss...


Same would have happened if an old bloke had pulled them up for swearing or something..

Imo..there wasn't an attack until the couple started standing thier ground, making the mockers turn volent to save face.

Its almost like the women made the men attack them. We see this attitude in other areas of life so its not so shocking here.

[Parmy]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Its almost like the women made the men attack them. We see this attitude in other areas of life so its not so shocking here.

It's not like that though...

And neither is a women wearing a short skirt an excuse....


I bet one of these kids faces was turning red in front of his mates..and I would happily back myself in thinking that's when it turned violent