[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That's where it gets difficult for me thoygh too Ammi and I find this hard to express in a way that doesn't sound like I'm trying to excuse or downplay attacks on LGBT people; like some people might see a gay person being attacked specifically for being gay and say "Forget homophobia assault is never acceptable" but that's not what I'm aiming for here at all.

I look at those pictures and they scream at me the entitlement and aggression of a group of males who wanted to use two women for their own pleasure, and became angry and violent when they weren't able to control them and they didn't comply. I think people might (wrongly) use the fact that they are gay to dismiss that part of this attack entirely. I don't know to what expent homophobic thought motivated these individuals but I am fairly certain that their over-riding mindset in doing any of it is that women are the belongings and playthings of men, and FAR, FAR too many young men are growing up with that idea.

...I agree that there is a good possibility the same wouldn’t have been requested of two males...to ‘perform’, you know...so that obviously is factored in ...that they were exerting a control ...but that still for me doesn’t take away the homophobia...it only adds another level...their action was still homophobic and I use that word with its full weight, TS...but obviously those are just my feelings...

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I agree that there is a good possibility the same wouldn’t have been requested of two males...to ‘perform’, you know...so that obviously is factored in ...that they were exerting a control ...but that still for me doesn’t take away the homophobia...it only adds another level...their action was still homophobic and I use that word with its full weight, TS...but obviously those are just my feelings...

I just can't see that the element motivated by their sexuality is hatred or fear or disgust which to me are essential components of homophobia. I'm not saying those sort of attacks don't happen, especially sexual assaults on gay women ("Women and women together is wrong, women are for men" sort of mindset) and maybe an element of that was going on here? But I honestly get the impression that they found the idea of two girls together appealing and wanted a front row seat, with the anger coming from being denied that and confronted.

[Ammi]

...but if the same requests for those displays would not have been made to a heterosexual couple ...then that is showing prejudice in the first instance and the very definition of homophobia...first there was homophobia and then something else equally unpleasant followed ...

[bots]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I just can't see that the element motivated by their sexuality is hatred or fear or disgust which to me are essential components of homophobia. I'm not saying those sort of attacks don't happen, especially sexual assaults on gay women ("Women and women together is wrong, women are for men" sort of mindset) and maybe an element of that was going on here? But I honestly get the impression that they found the idea of two girls together appealing and wanted a front row seat, with the anger coming from being denied that and confronted.

yeah, i would have thought a homophobic attack would not have been encouraging the activity, but it's only my opinion

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

yeah, i would have thought a homophobic attack would not have been encouraging the activity, but it's only my opinion

Not sure about that
They wanted to humiliate them

[Ammi]

..yeah humiliation, a good word Sugars...the homophobia was in the attempt to humiliate which was because of their sexuality...and the violence followed when the ladies refused to comply...