[bots]

Apart from the disfunction itself within the labour party, they come across like they are preaching to the public and thats never going to get any votes. Part of that comes from the fact that often the things they want to enact are not clear and concise, they require several minutes of explanation and that just causes eyes to glaze over

The conservatives have been very successful with their 3 word slogans, people remember them. Ask a labour mp for a slogan and it will be 20 pages long

[user104658]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

The conservatives have been very successful with their 3 word slogans, people remember them. Ask a labour mp for a slogan and it will be 20 pages long

That is true but also so, so depressing.

[bots]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That is true but also so, so depressing.

i think a lot of labours problem is that their policy comes from lots of diverse and inclusive committees, so the end product is just mush when it finally appears. Tony Blair was successful in labour because he didn't let a key message get diluted

[Livia]

I agree about the three word slogans, although "Strong and Stable" took a bit of a battering as I recall.

[Livia]

I agree about the three word slogans, they have been successful, although as I recall, "Strong & Stable" took a bit of a battering, and deservedly so.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That is true but also so, so depressing.

…it is as you say, really quite saddening to see …

…’getting it done’…regardless of the impact on the Good Friday Agreement…(…for instance…)…because our Boris would be ‘dead in a ditch’…although that is four words, I have to say…)…than think of a delay on Brexit…not good for his career, that delay…anyways, we won’t even touch on the Covid ones ….

[Crimson Dynamo]

i dont see anyone complaining when twitter said only 140 characters please

hopefully its not popular anymore.....

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

I agree about the three word slogans, they have been successful, although as I recall, "Strong & Stable" took a bit of a battering, and deservedly so.

It was quite amusing that they ran a campaign on "stable" and then immediately afterwards all the cards got thrown up in the air

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Apart from the disfunction itself within the labour party, they come across like they are preaching to the public and thats never going to get any votes. Part of that comes from the fact that often the things they want to enact are not clear and concise, they require several minutes of explanation and that just causes eyes to glaze over

The conservatives have been very successful with their 3 word slogans, people remember them. Ask a labour mp for a slogan and it will be 20 pages long

Surprisingly I agree, particularly with the last paragraph.

Blair with his and that song playing, '' Things can only get Better''.
Actually had people singing along at his rallies.

I agree too, the policy has to be clear as to be identified.
Then the further analysis able to be more concisely expressed.

Mind you , I can't talk with how long it takes me to make a point.

[Crimson Dynamo]

clunk, click, every trip

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jet

That's all very fascinating and riveting stuff right there I'm sure but the question wasn't about me and how I choose to respond to your diversions. Can you now answer the question which you have avoided thus far. It was a genuine question asked because your usual 'tory voters are thick and will continue to vote for them even when they s*** on them yadda yadda' doesn't really explain why previous dedicated Labour supporters are now voting for the Cons - from a Tory detractors point of view. If you don't know, just say so, maybe someone else will oblige.

What question are you bleating on about? I either missed it or I've answered it and you're doing that thing you do where you don't like an answer so you ask again and again in hopes of getting an answer you like.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

What question are you bleating on about? I either missed it or I've answered it and you're doing that thing you do where you don't like an answer so you ask again and again in hopes of getting an answer you like.

This is the one, I suspect. I mean I think it's been answered dozens of times already but... here it is nonetheless.

do you have an actual answer as to why so many working class are deserting Labour more than ever and voting Tory other than the usual childish insults which just smack of ‘they are a thick and spineless cult because they don’t think like me’.

[Tom4784]

Well, I've answered that a bunch already. Murdoch and right wing media have made constant fools of the public and the public are too glad to go along with it. We live in an era of post truth, we live in a time where one chief brexiter famously said 'We had enough of experts' when all the major financial experts in the world were united in saying that brexit would be a disaster. We live in an age where voters favour fairy tales over reality, where they'll gladly listen to a narrative that paints Tories as victims while ignoring their evidence of wrongdoing.

The answer to your question, Jet, is the same as always. We are a spineless country that accepts incompetence and ignores the facts when it suits us.

[user104658]

Personally I've become convinced that a HUGE part of it is as simple as ... people like to be "on the winning team". Tories are seen as unbeatable, people want their "team" to win, thus they will vote Tory every time, thus making the Tories unbeatable. A closed loop.

You see similar with big sports teams. People want to be supporting the teams that win most often, so they support the teams that are winning, so those teams have more cash, buy the best players, and continue to win.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Personally I've become convinced that a HUGE part of it is as simple as ... people like to be "on the winning team". Tories are seen as unbeatable, people want their "team" to win, thus they will vote Tory every time, thus making the Tories unbeatable. A closed loop.

You see similar with big sports teams. People want to be supporting the teams that win most often, so they support the teams that are winning, so those teams have more cash, buy the best players, and continue to win.

Wouldn't surprise me, after all, Jet did say something to that effect about the tories.

It paints a very grim image of the average Tory voter if that's the case.

[Ammi]

….this is an interesting article…I won’t post the whole article, it’s just there if anyone would care to read…(…yes I know it’s a link to an article, not my own thoughts…)…but it feels quite directly relevant to what Dezzy is saying…


https://newrepublic.com/article/1613...-boris-johnson

…this particularly will give the vibe of the piece…which yeah, fits with what Dezzy is saying…


Even now, after a brutal plague year in which Johnson has led Britain to one of the highest death rates per capita in the world, the Conservatives are still comfortable favorites to win the next election. Britain has lost nearly 120,000 lives to the virus so far, is currently eight weeks into a national lockdown that will last until at least April, and faces the worst economic forecasts of any country in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development bar Argentina. The government’s blunders have been blatant, repetitive, and devastating. And yet, mirroring government messaging, a majority of people say that the public, rather than politicians, are to blame. The Conservative Party marches on.

[jet]

Playing the blame game….and nobody is to blame but the virus itself. I’ll always say that any UK Gov would have tried its best, got things wrong, got things right...leaders are human beings, imagine a human being making blunders! ....who here would have wanted to be in Boris Johnsons or any leaders shoes? He isn’t a pandemic expert, he could only take advice and direction from this expert and that expert and hope he had got it as right as he could. Maybe posters here could have done it all better if he had only asked for their advice?

Boris had presided over the probably the most successful vaccination programme in the world, if we had had Labour and were still in the EU, thousands upon thousands more would have died, we would still be in the doldrums, doesn't that count at all?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Ammi

….this is an interesting article…I won’t post the whole article, it’s just there if anyone would care to read…(…yes I know it’s a link to an article, not my own thoughts…)…but it feels quite directly relevant to what Dezzy is saying…


https://newrepublic.com/article/1613...-boris-johnson

…this particularly will give the vibe of the piece…which yeah, fits with what Dezzy is saying…


Even now, after a brutal plague year in which Johnson has led Britain to one of the highest death rates per capita in the world, the Conservatives are still comfortable favorites to win the next election. Britain has lost nearly 120,000 lives to the virus so far, is currently eight weeks into a national lockdown that will last until at least April, and faces the worst economic forecasts of any country in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development bar Argentina. The government’s blunders have been blatant, repetitive, and devastating. And yet, mirroring government messaging, a majority of people say that the public, rather than politicians, are to blame. The Conservative Party marches on.

WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT THE HARD LEFT NEW REPUBLIC WOULD HAVE THAT OPINION?

[jet]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Well, I've answered that a bunch already. Murdoch and right wing media have made constant fools of the public and the public are too glad to go along with it. We live in an era of post truth, we live in a time where one chief brexiter famously said 'We had enough of experts' when all the major financial experts in the world were united in saying that brexit would be a disaster. We live in an age where voters favour fairy tales over reality, where they'll gladly listen to a narrative that paints Tories as victims while ignoring their evidence of wrongdoing.

The answer to your question, Jet, is the same as always. We are a spineless country that accepts incompetence and ignores the facts when it suits us.

But isn’t it capitalism that has made the western world so prosperous?
That prosperity came from hard work and ambition, which a Conservative Gov rewards. People aren’t spineless, they want to feel they can aspire to better things, and a Con gov goes hand in hand with aspirations, the rising above your circumstances and bettering yourselves.
People don’t want a party that see themselves and their supporters as victims, they want a can - do attitude and Boris for his part does that very well.

People trust the Cons, they know what to expect….and Labour haven’t had a leader in years that they can say ‘He/she is the one I’d trust to take me over to Labour’.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT THE HARD LEFT NEW REPUBLIC WOULD HAVE THAT OPINION?

Which bit is wrong?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Which bit is wrong?

The government’s blunders have been blatant, repetitive, and devastating.

That is an opinion and its a fairly standard hard-left one

and its one the GBP have no time for as witness the recent elections

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by jet

But isn’t it capitalism that has made the western world so prosperous?
That prosperity came from hard work and ambition, which a Conservative Gov rewards. People aren’t spineless, they want to feel they can aspire to better things, and a Con gov goes hand in hand with aspirations, the rising above your circumstances and bettering yourselves.
People don’t want a party that see themselves and their supporters as victims, they want a can - do attitude and Boris for his part does that very well.

People trust the Cons, they know what to expect….and Labour haven’t had a leader in years that they can say ‘He/she is the one I’d trust to take me over to Labour’.

It's a lot more complicated than that. As an example, capitalism as a concept did and would have no problem with child labour, it was progressive taxation that helped create the benefits that used to exist for yours and post war generations. Reaganomics and the rw orthodoxy that tax cuts for the wealthy equals everyone does better (despite there oly being contrary evidence), that wealth inequality is now on the way back to the era of barons and poor houses.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

The government’s blunders have been blatant, repetitive, and devastating.

That is an opinion and its a fairly standard hard-left one

and its one the GBP have no time for as witness the recent elections

Well we know as a fact that Boris was too busy decorating to attend his meetings, we know for a fact he wanted and tried to let covid run rampant, and unchecked. It's not opinion when it's backed up by the data. You saying they're only opinions is an opinion.

The rest is just meaningless to the discussion.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Well we know as a fact that Boris was too busy decorating to attend his meetings, we know for a fact he wanted and tried to let covid run rampant, and unchecked. It's not opinion when it's backed up by the data. You saying they're only opinions is an opinion.

The rest is just meaningless to the discussion.

…as has been said many times as well…governments/government leaders stand up to accountability …but that never will be the case in a ‘one government country’ …thats never going to give us a good quality leadership at all, as it hasn’t…and that would be the same if we’d had all of those years with any other government ….but Boris is a particularly self serving leader…

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…as has been said many times as well…governments/government leaders stand up to accountability …but that never will be the case in a ‘one government country’ …thats never going to give us a good quality leadership at all, as it hasn’t…and that would be the same if we’d had all of those years with any other government ….but Boris is a particularly self serving leader…

We see everyone rightfully mocking Starmers non-attempt at taking responsibility, whereas the man bragging about shaking hands as the pandemic hit here, hasn't attended one funeral, or phoned one family of the covid dead.