Originally Posted by Lee.

Well first of all, why not try and tell me what my dads name was and how he died

Watch the video above from 36 mins till the end, and you'll see tricks like that.

It's not special ability Lee.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

Watch the video above from 36 mins till the end, and you'll see tricks like that.

It's not special ability Lee.

I cant be bothered right now.. but the woman told my sister all about my dad.. things that obviously weren't guesses

Originally Posted by Lee.

I cant be bothered right now.. but the woman told my sister all about my dad.. things that obviously weren't guesses

But you weren't there, so you're only taking this on second hand information. It's anecdotal evidence, and that's the weakest form of evidence there is, specifically because of the way our memories work.

When you can be bothered, you will see Derren Brown telling an American lady that her mom was known as the hat lady before she passed. How could he possibility know that? It can't be a guess, surely? That's so specific.

There are ways for people to do this, that just doesn't involve any powers. So the first thing I'd ask myself, is if this can be done without a gift, why does it need a gift at all?

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

But you weren't there, so you're only taking this on second hand information. It's anecdotal evidence, and that's the weakest form of evidence there is, specifically because of the way our memories work.

When you can be bothered, you will see Derren Brown telling an American lady that her mom was known as the hat lady before she passed. How could he possibility know that? It can't be a guess, surely? That's so specific.

There are ways for people to do this, that just doesn't involve any powers. So the first thing I'd ask myself, is if this can be done without a gift, why does it need a gift at all?

Does derren brown explain how he did it? Who's to say that he hasnt actually got some psychic powers?

My sister told me exactly what was said about my dad... it was just too weird.

[InOne]

Not something I believe in or have ever been remotely interested in. I really don't know how these types still manage to make money.

Another good Derren Brown one was where he got that guy become a 'healer', sort of works on the same wavelength.

[Redway]

No. Supernatural forces and all are complete hoaxes.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

You can't say how that conversation played out. Was it done in in a Ludo reveal kind of way?

Person x, depression, suicide.

Or was it something like:

You have a friend called Rusty Lee

(Niamh nods, or looks up to recognise the name)

well this is going to happen.

That is completely open, and until Niamhs last breath there is a chance that could be true.

Dates are really easy to get round to cold readers. Firstly you have an instant 1 in 12 chance of being correct to begin with. If you're wrong then they will often change it.

Well that's when they first became ill, someone close to them died in that month - they're with them now everything is great.

It's all linguistics.

It was nothing like your describing Jesus, and tbh I wish I'd never even started talking about it now because it's about something I find quite upsetting still and I don't want to dissect every part of it, there was a bit more to it that I'd rather not go into but I can say that it was pretty believable to me and I'm a fairly sceptical kind of a person.

[bbfan1991]

Has anyone ever had their palms read?

[GypsyGoth]

Originally Posted by bbfan1991

Has anyone ever had their palms read?

Yep and I was really excited to learn that I was gonna have a swimming pool one day. But then I was really grossed out when they spat in the palm of my hand and laughed at me

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

Any believers should watch this whole programme, but at worst from 36mins till the end of the show.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/d...ls/4od#2921957

Great show. Believers will be surprised by it. Its quite uncomfortable to watch when he's telling people about there dead relatives yet we know he's fake.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by GypsyGoth

Yep and I was really excited to learn that I was gonna have a swimming pool one day. But then I was really grossed out when they spat in the palm of my hand and laughed at me

I remember that episode

[the truth]

Some people are way more perceptive than others, they can read your character and personality pretty quickly from all sorts of tell tale signs.....by listening , by observing their body language, tone of voice, eyes, expressions, lines in your hands etc etc those people that tend to be more observant and patient tend to read people better.....if theres no such thing as spirituality or joy then why the heck does the world need music and love? theres way more to life than the limited predictable narrow minded views of some people. but I draw the line at taking fortune tellers too seriously. I treat it as a bit of fun. I believe we choose our own destinies.

[lostalex]

No. They are frauds. Some of them are con artists and know they are faking it, and some of them genuinely believe they are psychic, but they are all frauds one way or the other.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It was nothing like your describing Jesus, and tbh I wish I'd never even started talking about it now because it's about something I find quite upsetting still and I don't want to dissect every part of it, there was a bit more to it that I'd rather not go into but I can say that it was pretty believable to me and I'm a fairly sceptical kind of a person.

..I agree with you and I do resent that anyone who has a genuine personal experience of this type being inferred to as in any way 'gullible' because I'm honestly not and wasn't even at the young age I went to see this lady. I do understand that quite a lot of people do go to see these people at a time in their lives when maybe they are a bit 'lost' and are trying to get some direction...so then there's a 'tick list' of possibilities..?...and a chance of getting some of those correct...

..but that wasn't how it was with me...I only went because someone else dropped out and my life was perfectly happy and ok...I don't want to say everything she told me because it's far too personal...but even if I did, then I'm sure it would just be dismissed anyway, which is actually really disrespectful...and also comparing a genuine experience to someone like Derren Brown, who is a self-confessed showman/entertainer and just because he doubts phychic abilities, doesn't mean that they don't exist...and especially as he's already stated that he knows nothing about them in the first place....

...and I'm not saying that I do believe in them either..all I'm saying is that I had a genuine and actually rather upsetting experience one time and it was enough for me to never do it again and decide that it was something I didn't want to delve into any further...there are some things in life that just can't always be explained by 'logic'....the 'tricks/methods' etc can be explained and that's because they are exactly that and something that entertainers like Derren Brown are skilled at...but the possibility of 'psychic abilities' is unproven, which also means that it's equally not proven to not exist either...and there are a lot of people who don't claim to have any of those abilities, but who have had some small kind of 'psychic' experience..far too many to dismiss it as just nonsense, without even giving it any possibility of being true...and those experiences could be anything..a 'feeling' of a loved one after they pass or a sense of deja vue etc..no one can say for certain that there's absolutley nothing in it at all..because some things just cannot be explained...

[lostalex]

can we please stop pretending that just because someone claims to have a "supernatural" experience that it's real? kthanx.

seek help.

Think about it this way, just like in the criminal justice system we presume someone is innocent before they are found guilty... also remember that these type of supernatural experiences need to be proven TRUE before you call them true. We should always wait for something to be PROVEN true, before we call it true.

[Jords]

Nope Id like to have it done 1 day just as an experience. I think theyre pretty intelligent on picking up things people say and working it.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by lostalex

can we please stop pretending that just because someone claims to have a "supernatural" experience that it's real? kthanx.

seek help.

Think about it this way, just like in the criminal justice system we presume someone is innocent before they are found guilty... also remember that these type of supernatural experiences need to be proven TRUE before you call them true. We should always wait for something to be PROVEN true, before we call it true.

..Alex, I can't generalise about everyone who claims to have psychic abilities and of course I can't prove them to be true...tbh, I don't even know what I believe to be true with regards to it either..but my own personal 'proof' of this one time experience is that the few things she told me did come true and they were very specific and not something that she could generalise about...there is not really anything else which can be 'proven' about that experience other than what she said did come about...

..I have nothing else to say on the subject as really I don't know anything about it, nor do I have any wish to enlighten myself more either....

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..Alex, I can't generalise about everyone who claims to have psychic abilities and of course I can't prove them to be true...tbh, I don't even know what I believe to be true with regards to it either..but my own personal 'proof' of this one time experience is that the few things she told me did come true and they were very specific and not something that she could generalise about...there is not really anything else which can be 'proven' about that experience other than what she said did come about...

..I have nothing else to say on the subject as really I don't know anything about it, nor do I have any wish to enlighten myself more either....

but if you believed it to be true, then maybe you MADE it true. A self fulfilling prophecy.

Like a placebo.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by lostalex

but if you believed it to be true, then maybe you MADE it true. A self fulfilling prophecy.

Like a placebo.

..so I 'willed' that person to die then..in the month that I was told they would, even though I had no knowledge of them being ill at the time...?..

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..so I 'willed' that person to die then..in the month that I was told they would, even though I had no knowledge of them being ill at the time...?..

no, but you associated it with the prophecy to make it fit with the narrative you were given. You willed it to be part of the narrative you were given, I wasn't saying in any way that you MADE someone else die. i don't think think you or the psychic had anything to do with the actual death, you are missing my point.

What if she told 100 other people about a death and she got it wrong, would you know about it? i doubt she advertises her failure rate. but i bet she's very proud of her success rate, right?

If this psychic is actually able to predict when people will die, then why isn't she using her skill with a police force to help the police prevent murders? or hospitals to prevent deaths?

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by lostalex

no, but you associated it with the prophecy to make it fit with the narrative you were given.

If this psychic is actually able to predict when people will die, then why isn't she using her skill with a police force to help the police prevent murders? or hospitals to prevent deaths?

..it wasn't the only thing she told me but I'm not prepared to say anymore because it is extremely personal...and it will only be dismissed, as this part has been anyway..but that is everyone's right to do so, just as it's mine to maintain an 'open mind' and not dismiss what I or anyone else have experienced....

[Jords]

Originally Posted by lostalex

no, but you associated it with the prophecy to make it fit with the narrative you were given. What if she told 100 other people about a death and she got it wrong, would you know about it? i doubt she advertises her failure rate. but i bet she's very proud of her success rate, right?

If this psychic is actually able to predict when people will die, then why isn't she using her skill with a police force to help the police prevent murders? or hospitals to prevent deaths?

failure rate and success rate are the same thing

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Jords

failure rate and success rate are the same thing

No it's not. If you only report your successes, and ignore your failures, that totally manipulates the success/failure rate. That's exactly what i'm saying.

Most of these "psychics" ignore their failure rate by saying "oh well they just weren't OPEN to the process" or some other excuse like that.

"I can ONLY read people who are OPEN MINDED."

Which means when they fail, instead of blaming themselves for failure, they blame their client for not being "open minded" enough.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by lostalex

No it's not. If you only report your successes, and ignore your failures, that totally manipulates the success/failure rate. That's exactly what i'm saying.

Most of these "psychics" ignore their failure rate by saying "oh well they just weren't OPEN to the process" or some other excuse like that.

..but surely unless something is 100% proven, if you don't give possibility and impossibility equal credence, you're also 'manipulating' to your own personal beliefs..

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..but surely unless something is 100% proven, if you don't give possibility and impossibility equal credence, you're also 'manipulating' to your own personal beliefs..

no, because a scientific experiment doesn't require belief. It doesn't matter whether or not you believe in gravity, I can still watch an apple fall from a tree and see gravity. Whether I believe in gravity or not, I can still see it in a scientific experiment over and over and over.

I can believe that the apple will fly up to heaven as hard as I want to believe, but it won't change the fact that apples will fall to the ground. It doesn't matter how much I believe the apple will rise to heaven, or how much I wish it to do something different. It will STILL fall to the ground.

That's how I KNOW that apples fall to the ground.