[jaxie]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

What you're not getting is, this march was an international day of solidarity. It wasn't just about Trump. It was used on the day of his Inauguration because Trump, our new leader of the world, is the new face misogyny. This march was about female repression the world over.

Why do so many threads get turned back towards Muslims? its like an obsession.

I respect you and like you Red but you aren't getting the point of what I said I think. You just cherry picked muslims from the whole.

What I said wasn't about muslims, it was about countries who repress their women on a large scale. It is sadly impossible to speak about this without including muslim countries because that is where it's at and the two countries I mentioned aren't the only ones. That doesn't mean it should be something we don't talk about. Everyone who commented on my post completely missed the mention of China in their rush to defend muslims. This happens every t8ime this subject comes up and frankly it scares me that people are so blind and accepting because it's faith related oppression of women.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I respect you and like you Red but you aren't getting the point of what I said I think. You just cherry picked muslims from the whole.

What I said wasn't about muslims, it was about countries who repress their women on a large scale. It is sadly impossible to speak about this without including muslim countries because that is where it's at and the two countries I mentioned aren't the only ones. That doesn't mean it should be something we don't talk about. Everyone who commented on my post completely missed the mention of China in their rush to defend muslims. This happens every t8ime this subject comes up and frankly it scares me that people are so blind and accepting because it's faith related oppression of women.

My response wasn't actually to you Jaxie. I did read your post but because you wrote about Iranian baby girls being murdered, I felt I couldn't answer you directly.... I was responding to the posts that followed yours.

The Muslim/Chinese/Iranian women is a digression from the topic.
...Its like this... A few years back I was part of a protest to stop farm animals and horses being transported to abattoirs overseas, on the hoof.

You could point a finger at me and say, "If I can protest to stop animals being transported live, why don't I protest to stop cruelty that often goes on in Hahal abattoirs?

The answer is, I've done that too but they were two different protests and so two different discussions.

[arista]

"Straight white males"

How Nice NM
but there is also GAY Truck Women
Voting Trump.

Plus Gay Men voting Trump

Even on Every TV station UK to FAT Black WOMEN
Diamond and Silk LIVE BY SYKPE HD USA
Love Trump and Love Trump 3AM Twitter



Yes NM
Shares got wiped off that USA Plane company
as Trump says they are Over charging
Now I get VERY ANGRY at Over Charging
And will Expose IT.


FEEL THE FORCE NM

[Northern Monkey]

Biology doesn't make men and women unequal,It makes them different and as such they often have to make different choices.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Biology doesn't make men and women unequal,It makes them different and as such they often have to make different choices.

feminists dont accept that. they think the average wage across the entire world should be identical. even though men do jobs for many years that 99.9% of women wouldnt consider

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by the truth

feminists dont accept that. they think the average wage across the entire world should be identical. even though men do jobs for many years that 99.9% of women wouldnt consider

Well one of the issues that feminists generally shy away from is the fact that way more men die at work because they do the horrible jobs that women won't or can't do.Put that fact to a feminist and they'll change the subject or try telling you it's all about the context etc etc blah blah.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Well one of the issues that feminists generally shy away from is the fact that way more men die at work because they do the horrible jobs that women won't or can't do.Put that fact to a feminist and they'll change the subject or try telling you it's all about the context etc etc blah blah.

This should change before long given women have been fighting for the right to fight on the army frontline, same as men..and now have that right just extra training is involved so its not quite happening yet (unless you class men who were already in the army now wearing dresses and deciding that makes them women and such...). The death toll of women at work should rise soon, probably by next year

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Well one of the issues that feminists generally shy away from is the fact that way more men die at work because they do the horrible jobs that women won't or can't do.Put that fact to a feminist and they'll change the subject or try telling you it's all about the context etc etc blah blah.

It's a stupid argument to make. Why should a woman be paid less than a man just because some industries are male dominated? It makes no ****ing sense.

Does this mean that men working in the fashion, childcare or Health & Beauty industries should be paid less than women because they are female dominated industries? It's dumb.

Men and women who perform the same job should be paid an equal wage, the fact that people are arguing against this is just ****ing mind boggling.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's a stupid argument to make. Why should a woman be paid less than a man just because some industries are male dominated? It makes no ****ing sense.

Does this mean that men working in the fashion, childcare or Health & Beauty industries should be paid less than women because they are female dominated industries? It's dumb.

Men and women who perform the same job should be paid an equal wage, the fact that people are arguing against this is just ****ing mind boggling.

Who's arguing against that?Wage should reflect the job role.If one gender happens to go into lesser paid roles more than the other then that's not the fault of the opposite gender.There may be a case for childcare roles to increase wages but that needs to be taken up with that industry.

Women in their twenties are out earning men.When they get into their thirties when many decide to have children then that tends to be where the gap is.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Well one of the issues that feminists generally shy away from is the fact that way more men die at work because they do the horrible jobs that women won't or can't do.Put that fact to a feminist and they'll change the subject or try telling you it's all about the context etc etc blah blah.

You do know a significant amount of women die in childbirth, and many thousands over the years.

And male/female roles came from tradition in a male dominated society. Men made those decisions. Over the years women have challenged these roles with more women than ever doing tradionally male jobs.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by the truth

feminists dont accept that. they think the average wage across the entire world should be identical. even though men do jobs for many years that 99.9% of women wouldnt consider

The fact that you think a gender based wage gap is acceptable says it all and your attempts to justify it are illogical and nonsensical.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The fact that you think a gender based wage gap is acceptable says it all and your attempts to justify it are illogical and nonsensical.

your counter argument is embarrassing and your false outrage and fake taking of offence oh so predictable. If 2 people do the exact same job to the same standard in the same part of the country they should be paid the same. otherwise there will be variation. how many women clean the sewers, work oil rigs, carry out the rubbish, how many do the most dangerous jobs risking life and limb compared to men? until the same number do, then they cannot earn the living for doing these jobs? You cont even understand mean medium mode. Im talking the mean across the whole country. when you factor in the vast number of men who do more risky jobs and get danger money they they overall male mean/average will be boosted above womens.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by the truth

your counter argument is embarrassing and your false outrage and fake taking of offence oh so predictable. If 2 people do the exact same job to the same standard in the same part of the country they should be paid the same. otherwise there will be variation. how many women clean the sewers, work oil rigs, carry out the rubbish, how many do the most dangerous jobs risking life and limb compared to men? until the same number do, then they cannot earn the living for doing these jobs? You cont even understand mean medium mode. Im talking the mean across the whole country. when you factor in the vast number of men who do more risky jobs and get danger money they they overall male mean/average will be boosted above womens.

I really doubt any of those things would affect the wage gap, given they will be fairly low paid? If anything, they would bring down the average earnings of males against females?

[Vicky.]

I am not a feminist by any stretch of the imagination, but find the idea that feminists should centre the struggles of men slightly bizarre. Its kinda akin to asking the black lives matter movement to focus on the struggles of white people.

And I am yet to meet a feminist who hates men, as is often claimed.

I actually agree that in this country men and women are more or less equal. But to claim that men are more oppressed is just silly to me.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I am not a feminist by any stretch of the imagination, but find the idea that feminists should centre the struggles of men slightly bizarre. Its kinda akin to asking the black lives matter movement to focus on the struggles of white people.

And I am yet to meet a feminist who hates men, as is often claimed.

I actually agree that in this country men and women are more or less equal. But to claim that men are more oppressed is just silly to me.

No offence Vicki but I find it very frustrating when women say they are not a feminist. If you believe in female equality then you are a feminist as that is all feminism means - believing in equality. You sound like a woman who believes in equality to me.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

No offence Vicki but I find it very frustrating when women say they are not a feminist. If you believe in female equality then you are a feminist as that is all feminism means - believing in equality. You sound like a woman who believes in equality to me.

I meant more along the lines of...I don't march. I don't fight. I do nothing. I believe in equality yes.

Maybe I am not a feminist activist would have been more appropriate.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

No offence Vicki but I find it very frustrating when women say they are not a feminist. If you believe in female equality then you are a feminist as that is all feminism means - believing in equality. You sound like a woman who believes in equality to me.

I agree but unfortunately feminist has becomes a dirty word and seems to have warped into a different meaning altogether

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I agree but unfortunately feminist has becomes a dirty word and seems to have warped into a different meaning altogether

I know and that is a shame. Women need to be stronger - loud and proud. It doesn't mean they are men haters or lesbians so they should not allow others to make them feel embarrassed to say they are a feminist.

[Vicky.]

Also if anyone thinks its as easy for a female to get a promotion as it is for a male..you are kidding yourself. In my fairly short lifetime I have been passed over for promotions twice based on the fact that I would not suck off/**** the male boss in order to gain said promotion. Both times, the job went to a male who was worse at the job than me.

Of course, you could argue that the male was actually better (even though they clearly weren't, but for the sake of argument) but then you have to ask yourself, why was I offered it above the more capable male, on the condition that I basically prostituted myself?

[Northern Monkey]

If feminism was about equality it wouldn't be called 'feminism'.It would be a broader term to encourage equality for everyone.
Real feminism played an important role back when women were truly oppressed but now both sexes are equally oppressed the term is outdated.
Modern feminists in the main don't want equality.

[Vicky.]

Also in the event of a couple having kids, the man keeping working and the woman staying home...it is extremely unlikely that anyone gets 'a hell of a lot of benefits'. But for the sake of argument...Child benefit is for the family and not everyone gets this. Housing benefit would benefit the man also, but is unlikely in the case of the man working fulltime and getting a half decent wage. Income support...not likely at all if the man is working fulltime.

[Withano]

Christ, good thing the march happened. I had no idea people had the views some members are expressing. Looks like theres still a long way to go. But opening a discussion with some of the deep-rooted mindsets above is progress.

I think discrimination is just difficult to undrstand when you have never experienced it. Straight cisgendered white able-bodied males will be difficult to convince unless they have an enducation or the time to research inequality independently. We just got to wait for that day, theres not much point debating an unchangeable mindset.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Withano

Christ, good thing the march happened. I had no idea people had the views some members are expressing. Looks like theres still a long way to go. But opening a discussion with some of the deep-rooted mindsets above is progress.

I think discrimination is just difficult to undrstand when you have never experienced it. Straight cisgendered white able-bodied males will be difficult to convince unless they have an enducation or the time to research inequality independently. We just got to wait for that day, theres not much point debating an unchangeable mindset.

The most discriminated against group of all..evidently.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

The most discriminated against group of all..evidently.

It seems satire, but I've been on the site long enough to know its not!

[Ronald.]

Some good and interesting points and comments made in this thread. R.