[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by arista

Well Done Jess.

Thank you, young man.

[y.winter]

If people would've given up on many ideas just because "one person can't make a change", we wouldn't have progressed as a society like we do...

Human rights, general elections, revolutions, recycling - it comes in any aspect of life you could thing of. It doesn't do any wrong supporting good causes, so why look for excuses...

[AnnieK]

I was vegetarian as a kid....because my mum was. She actually got really poorly (she was badly anaemic due to another medical issue) and so after 10 years started eating meat again. I only really eat chicken and fish...no red meat but because I don't like the taste. I would love to give it a go again but working full time and having a 7 year old that has a million evening activities means that I cant be arsed cooking different things at dinner time and I really do believe kids need to eat meat to get a full balanced diet

[y.winter]

For the record, plant based diet is a balanced diet (from birth) and has been confirmed as such by the World Health Organization.
It's a mix of rooted misconception, poor nutrition education and old cultural conventions that keeps people clueless about handling a planet based diet.
I'm not sure why the "unbalanced diet" argument is always brought up, but people wouldn't even tackle this subject and won't even consider it as a concern, even in the slightest, when looking on the animal-based diet. Hospitals, obesity, diabetes, atherosclerosis - it's filled with people living on a so-called "balanced" diet that consists animal-based products.

[caprimint]

I don't like the "we were made to eat meat!" argument, I mean who says? And so what if that's true anyway? I'm sure there are many things that we should do but we don't because it's a personal preference, like who actually gives a ****

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by caprimint

I don't like the "we were made to eat meat!" argument, I mean who says? And so what if that's true anyway? I'm sure there are many things that we should do but we don't because it's a personal preference, like who actually gives a ****

Personal preference is fine.

Using that personal preference to say "I'm doing what's right!" is something else.

[caprimint]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Personal preference is fine.

Using that personal preference to say "I'm doing what's right!" is something else.

Tbh from my experience I've heard more non-vegetarians/vegans say that

[Jessica.]

Marsh, why are you so passionate about this? Nobody told you to stop eating meat. Also, watch a documentary, maybe. You could watch Rotten on Netflix or Earthlings.

[Jessica.]

I feel worse for animals every day.

[Marsh.]

A lot of people who work in lots of places are psychologically damaged.

Usually it's to do with people doing jobs they're no good at. But you get that in most industries.

[armand.kay]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

A lot of people who work in lots of places are psychologically damaged.

Usually it's to do with people doing jobs they're no good at. But you get that in most industries.

Ah yes the disproportionate cases of PTSD in the office place!

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by armand.kay

Ah yes the disproportionate cases of PTSD in the office place!

Who mentioned offices?

There are all kinds of unpleasant jobs that take a big toll on people. Some are suited and some aren't.

I just think your idealised vegetarian world is just that, idealised.

[armand.kay]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Who mentioned offices?

There are all kinds of unpleasant jobs that take a big toll on people. Some are suited and some aren't.

I just think your idealised vegetarian world is just that, idealised.

I've never once said the whole world should be vegetarian, I've just criticised the meat industry and suggested that more people should consider going vegetarian/vegan and even meat eaters should eat less meat. If not for the animals then for the planet we all live on. Also like I said yesterday meat and dairy sails are declining and demand more vegan options is going up so maybe it's not so idealised

[Marsh.]

Yeah let's prevent climate change... By simply using the resources and energy elsewhere.

[Jessica.]

You might think it's natural to eat meat because you were raised on that idea, but not everything that's natural is the right way. Also, we are able to rationalise doing less harm and being less cruel. None can be 100% cruelty free in this day and age, but at least we can make a little bit of effort to do what we're able to. Right now, it's not convenient for me to stop eating animals, but I'm able to and that makes a difference to me and my conscience, as well as all of the animals I'm not going to eat. Am I wrong for this?

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

You might think it's natural to eat meat because you were raised on that idea, but not everything that's natural is the right way. Also, we are able to rationalise doing less harm and being less cruel. None can be 100% cruelty free in this day and age, but at least we can make a little bit of effort to do what we're able to. Right now, it's not convenient for me to stop eating animals, but I'm able to and that makes a difference to me and my conscience, as well as all of the animals I'm not going to eat. Am I wrong for this?

Of course you're not wrong....it is your personal preference. Just as eating meat is other people's. As long as you are doing what is right for you, its not up to others to argue or criticise

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

You might think it's natural to eat meat because you were raised on that idea, but not everything that's natural is the right way.

Yeh, me, my parents, and their ancestors for the last 2 and a half million years before that were brought up on this idea.

(you are completely entitled to be veggie, obviously. It just wouldnt benefit the world if everybody was, actually it would be a complete hinderance to Earth imo)

[armand.kay]

Originally Posted by Withano

Yeh, me, my parents, and their ancestors for the last 2 and a half million years before that were brought up on this idea.

(you are completely entitled to be veggie, obviously. It just wouldnt benefit the world if everybody was, actually it would be a complete hinderance to Earth imo)

(I don't think the whole world should be vegetarian but we need to cut down on meat consumption and do something about the unethical practices of the meat industry thats all I've been trying to say in this thread.)

[Withano]

Originally Posted by armand.kay

(I don't think the whole world should be vegetarian but we need to cut down on meat consumption and do something about the unethical practices of the meat industry thats all I've been trying to say in this thread.)

Meh, if we ate 100 million less cows a year, 100 million less cows would be bred, and the majority would wanna replace those meals with a quorn burger. I cant see it being too helpful if I'm completely honest.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

You might think it's natural to eat meat because you were raised on that idea, but not everything that's natural is the right way. Also, we are able to rationalise doing less harm and being less cruel. None can be 100% cruelty free in this day and age, but at least we can make a little bit of effort to do what we're able to. Right now, it's not convenient for me to stop eating animals, but I'm able to and that makes a difference to me and my conscience, as well as all of the animals I'm not going to eat. Am I wrong for this?

It's an interesting point, something being the normal way of doing things doesn't mean it's natural, if you think about wearing clothes for example I think most people would agree it's not because it's natural... I mean we call people who don't 'naturists' yet how long have humans worn clothes for?
I think social norms probably play a big part in all of this actually, because where comparisons between us and other animals and the food chain etc (when it comes to whether or not meat eating is natural/instinctive) are concerned, it's ignoring that we're very different to most other animals in the extent to which we're effected by social conditioning, and I can only speak for myself but I'm pretty sure I don't feel instinctive urges to eat animals. If you think about the meat we eat and our urges towards it and how much we enjoy it etc we think of how it looks and tastes after cooking... not many of us would be happy eating raw animal flesh and it can also be dangerous for us to do so... we literally have to turn it into something unrecognisable for it to be appealing to us and for it to be safe, and that doesn't seem 'natural' to me? I think it's very possible that similar to the clothes example we may have started eating meat through necessity, and it developed into a social norm from there.
The more I think about it the more I think there's definitely an argument for vegetarianism as being more natural.

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

It's an interesting point, something being the normal way of doing things doesn't mean it's natural, if you think about wearing clothes for example I think most people would agree it's not because it's natural... I mean we call people who don't 'naturists' yet how long have humans worn clothes for?
I think social norms probably play a big part in all of this actually, because where comparisons between us and other animals and the food chain etc (when it comes to whether or not meat eating is natural/instinctive) are concerned, it's ignoring that we're very different to most other animals in the extent to which we're effected by social conditioning, and I can only speak for myself but I'm pretty sure I don't feel instinctive urges to eat animals. If you think about the meat we eat and our urges towards it and how much we enjoy it etc we think of how it looks and tastes after cooking... not many of us would be happy eating raw animal flesh and it can also be dangerous for us to do so... we literally have to turn it into something unrecognisable for it to be appealing to us and for it to be safe, and that doesn't seem 'natural' to me? I think it's very possible that similar to the clothes example we may have started eating meat through necessity, and it developed into a social norm from there.
The more I think about it the more I think there's definitely an argument for vegetarianism as being more natural.

Excellent points there! That's what I was trying to say.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

It's an interesting point, something being the normal way of doing things doesn't mean it's natural, if you think about wearing clothes for example I think most people would agree it's not because it's natural... I mean we call people who don't 'naturists' yet how long have humans worn clothes for?
I think social norms probably play a big part in all of this actually, because where comparisons between us and other animals and the food chain etc (when it comes to whether or not meat eating is natural/instinctive) are concerned, it's ignoring that we're very different to most other animals in the extent to which we're effected by social conditioning, and I can only speak for myself but I'm pretty sure I don't feel instinctive urges to eat animals. If you think about the meat we eat and our urges towards it and how much we enjoy it etc we think of how it looks and tastes after cooking... not many of us would be happy eating raw animal flesh and it can also be dangerous for us to do so... we literally have to turn it into something unrecognisable for it to be appealing to us and for it to be safe, and that doesn't seem 'natural' to me? I think it's very possible that similar to the clothes example we may have started eating meat through necessity, and it developed into a social norm from there.
The more I think about it the more I think there's definitely an argument for vegetarianism as being more natural.

Nobody said natural because it's the "normal" way. But because that's how nature works.

Man didn't start cooking meat so it no longer resembled a living animal. It serves many purposes including preventing disease.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Nobody said natural because it's the "normal" way. But because that's how nature works.

Man didn't start cooking meat so it no longer resembled a living animal. It serves many purposes including preventing disease.

That's what I meant about it being 'unsafe' My point was that having to alter it from it's natural state for whatever reason seems... unnatural, that we're not naturally inclined to eat it.

Although I'm sort of back on the fence now about the whole nature thing anyway after reading this https://veganbiologist.com/2016/01/0...ot-herbivores/

(there's an alien analogy so you might want to avoid it Marsh )

It's not that relevant anyway really as most people will decide based on morals/preferences etc but it's interesting to think about the whole nature thing, it's not something I've ever really thought about before.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

That's what I meant about it being 'unsafe' My point was that having to alter it from it's natural state for whatever reason seems... unnatural, that we're not naturally inclined to eat it.

Although I'm sort of back on the fence now about the whole nature thing anyway after reading this https://veganbiologist.com/2016/01/0...ot-herbivores/

(there's an alien analogy so you might want to avoid it Marsh )

It's not that relevant anyway really as most people will decide based on morals/preferences etc but it's interesting to think about the whole nature thing, it's not something I've ever really thought about before.

So explain the many cooked vegetarian meals which alter the ingredients from their original state.

That reasoning is ridiculous.

[ginkgo]

Imo pigs and cows are on par with small children, not a fan of speciesist killing of them. And about the natural cycle thing i think we have gone past it as a species and I wouldnt think its fair enough if another 'more advanced' alien species would come here and force us to cages to feed and breed because that's just natural domination cycle