[user104658]

Originally Posted by Redway

I wasn’t talking about you though was I. I’m talking about other people on this thread so you can see that particular LGBT comment in the context of other people being minimalistic about other forms of discrimination in the first place.

I’ve stayed calm for the most part where other people would’ve flipped when it comes to discussing black issues with people who aren’t willing to understand. Like I say those people are the same ones who wouldn’t see an issue touching a black girl’s hair. These are the same people who actually respond with joker smilies when someone’s talking about serious issues which still affect people of colour to this day.

Like I say I’m open to discussing these things with people who are willing to understand but the people those posts were directed at aren’t. And they’re happy to minimalise someone else’s experience to bolster some weird kind of pseudo-racist agenda. But it’s cool. Those particular people obviously don’t know any better so I’ve stayed cool for the most part.

You haven't stayed cool at all. Honestly, I get that this is a deeply affecting issue for you and that you have a lot of anger surrounding it, but frankly, the hostility forcefulness in the way you talk about it makes people less likely to listen to you... not more likely. Which will likely be met with a "you can't understand" type comment, and no I can't understand how it affects you personally, but I do know that there are many, many black people who debate / discuss / examine race issues respectfully and academically without resorting to aggressive language and (to be blunt) thinly veiled keyboard-threats.

[Niamh.]

Closing this, I will reopen it in a while after I clean it up a bit.

[Niamh.]

OK, I'm going to re open this, just deleted 146 posts though so if it starts going off topic or if people start getting insulting with eachother again then I'm just going to close it for good

[Oliver_W]

Like the white farmers in South Africa, they're facing vile racist attacks at the moment. But the "Rainbow Nation" is a long way away from the West, even if apartheid is (apparently) over.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Cherie

What are you saying, that as a white woman if I am discriminated against, I should be thankful I haven't got it worse

Originally Posted by Brillopad

We likely would if we lived in many countries where whites weren't the norm. Just as blacks have it harder in many countries where non-whites aren't the norm.

I don't know the statistics worldwide but I wouldn't mind betting worldwide whites are in the minority.

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Like the white farmers in South Africa, they're facing vile racist attacks at the moment. But the "Rainbow Nation" is a long way away from the West, even if apartheid is (apparently) over.

You're all just fighting for the sake of fighting now literally nobody has said that -blank- type of discrimination doesnt exist. It all exists, and its all tragic.

Some types of discrimination tends to be more common than others, and some types of discrimination tends to be more harsh than others... and fighting that back with what ifs and buts isnt helpful to anybody.

It just looks like your trying to minimise the types of discrimination that you cant personally relate to.. it looks really sad.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

You're all just fighting for the sake of fighting now literally nobody has said that -blank- type of discrimination doesnt exist. It all exists, and its all tragic.

Some types of discrimination tends to be more common than others, and some types of discrimination tends to be more harsh than others... and fighting that back with what ifs and buts isnt helpful to anybody.

It just looks like your trying to minimise the types of discrimination that you cant personally relate to.. it looks really sad.

I could just as easily turn that around on you - as it has often seemed to me that is exactly what you are doing - simply focusing on discrimination closer to home. I really think you could say that of most people.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I could just as easily turn that around on you - as it has often seemed to me that is exactly what you are doing - simply focusing on discrimination closer to home. I really think you could say that of most people.

Please quote me where youve think ive done anything remotely similar to the disrespect youve shown in here

Everyones history with discrimination are valid. You are literally trying to invalidate them for some reason. It looks sad.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Withano

You're all just fighting for the sake of fighting now literally nobody has said that -blank- type of discrimination doesnt exist. It all exists, and its all tragic.

Some types of discrimination tends to be more common than others, and some types of discrimination tends to be more harsh than others... and fighting that back with what ifs and buts isnt helpful to anybody.

It just looks like your trying to minimise the types of discrimination that you cant personally relate to.. it looks really sad.

Not saying that, so no its not sad at all, and who is fighting? all I see are responses on a thread

[Niamh.]

Guys I will close this thread permanently if you all start attacking eachother.............just a warning before it gets worse

[Vicky.]

I am sure white people do suffer racism in places where white people are a minority. Not in the UK though.

I answered sex, sexuality and disability. Sexuality should maybe go, I have had 'looks' and such when out with my ex girlfriend but not been discriminated against as such. Sex for sure, went for a job interview where the (male) interviewer specifically asked me if I plan to have children, as I was maybe 24 or so. I was perfect for that job too, but he gave it to a guy who was useless (and actually got sacked a few months later)..I suspect as he did not believe me when I said I wasn't wanting kids just yet Its terrible really, they aren't meant to ask stuff like that but they do.

As for disability, yes but it was maybe justified. Again for a job. I wouldn't employ me in the state I am in but I had an ESA medical where I was cured in 20 mins, which was amazing given the hospital have been trying to fix me for 5 years now! So had to go on jobseekers for a few weeks(they didn't want to sign me on JSA as they said I was clearly not fit for work) so I applied for a job I was probably overqualified for, but had one of my bad pain attacks while I was there. I guess they saw me as someone who would be off sick most of the time, which is about right. So yeah. I think that was pretty justified and I don't blame them at all for that.

[Vicky.]

Yup, travellers face discrimination for being travellers, not because they are white, so I don't think its racism. Travellers are assumed to be dickheads who fight all the time and steal and stuff. From my experience, that seems pretty accurate however I really doubt that they are all liken that and I do think I have just been unlucky with the ones I have met, and would not assume that every traveler is like that at all. But yeah, its xenophobia really. Its not racism, unless people are discriminating against them for the colour of their skin

[Vicky.]

The guardian is full of **** though. used to be my news source of choice, now I see it as a bit of a joke

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

The guardian is full of **** though. used to be my news source of choice, now I see it as a bit of a joke

oh right I see, I hope we can be as open and honest about other communities when talking about them on the forum.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

oh right I see, I hope we can be as open and honest about other communities when talking about them on the forum.

Not sure what this comment means actually? Or what it has to do with my dislike of the guardian

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Not sure what this comment means actually? Or what it has to do with my dislike of the guardian

You made some very robust stereotypical comments about travellers which is your experience, I am sure a lot of people have had experience of many people in many communities who uphold stereotypes as well but if we were to mention that we would be called racist, or xenophobic or bigot or similar, the comment in the Guardian hit the nail on the head in that Irish travellers and gypsy's in general are still not protected like other groups are in relation to being stereotyped and abused.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Cherie

You made some very robust stereotypical comments about travellers which is your experience, I am sure a lot of people have had experience of many people in many communities who uphold stereotypes as well but if we were to mention that we would be called racist, or xenophobic or bigot or similar, the comment in the Guardian hit the nail on the head in that Irish travellers and gypsy's in general are still not protected like other groups are in relation to being stereotyped and abused.

It demonstrates the hypocricy. Irish travellers it seems are not ‘current’ or ‘PC’ enough. Not a high enough moral high ground to jump upon.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Cherie

, the comment in the Guardian hit the nail on the head in that Irish travellers and gypsy's in general are still not protected like other groups are in relation to being stereotyped and abused.

Why do you think this is? Genuine question.

I suppose my theory would be that they’re seen as more of a community than anything else? and anti-community is less of a talking point.

It is sad though. People should really start focussing on individuals to criticise instead of any group that they belong to.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Cherie

You made some very robust stereotypical comments about travellers which is your experience, I am sure a lot of people have had experience of many people in many communities who uphold stereotypes as well but if we were to mention that we would be called racist, or xenophobic or bigot or similar, the comment in the Guardian hit the nail on the head in that Irish travellers and gypsy's in general are still not protected like other groups are in relation to being stereotyped and abused.

I suppose the problem is how do you define Travellers? They aren't a race so they can't be protected as such, xenophobia only comes into play if their irish/romanian roots are brought into it in a negative way and there's not enough pressure on the government to protect travellers, especially considering that most people will define a community by the worst of it while disregarding the rest.

People are simply too happy to see the worst in all of them.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

You made some very robust stereotypical comments about travellers which is your experience, I am sure a lot of people have had experience of many people in many communities who uphold stereotypes as well but if we were to mention that we would be called racist, or xenophobic or bigot or similar, the comment in the Guardian hit the nail on the head in that Irish travellers and gypsy's in general are still not protected like other groups are in relation to being stereotyped and abused.

Fair enough, so I shouldn't talk about my experience of travellers, because its stereotypical? Hell, I even said I am sure thats not what they are all like, but the ones I have met HAVE been like that, ffs one of the guys even punched his 10 year old son in the head for beating him at pool...while I was on bloody shift, then threatened to shoot me as 'its **** all to do with you you slut, I'll do the same to you in a second' when I told him to get the hell out as we don't tolerate behaviour like that! There seemed to be one of them who was 'the boss' so to speak, an older guy who told him to calm down and get out, which did chill it all down immediately. But yeah, not allowed to talk about it apparently

[Tom4784]

You can quote all the opinion pieces in the world you like, it doesn't change the fact that xenophobia and racism are two different things and no amount of twisty turny 'logic' can override facts.

Eastern European is not a race, travellers are not a race, that doesn't minimise the xenophobia and the bigotry they face but it doesn't make it racism either. People don't hate eastern europeans or travellers because they are white, that's simply not true and nothing is going to change that.

You can't argue against facts, this isn't a 'let's agree to disagree situation. There is a right and a wrong and oversimplifying the differences between xenophobia and racism to justify an incorrect point does not make it any less factually incorrect.

Racism is not the same as xenophobia, as I've said multiple times (and have been ignored each time) white people can face discrimination based on other factors but in the west, we do not suffer racism on anywhere near the same level as other races and it's just disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

[UserSince2005]

i get discriminated against every day. im too beautiful for this world.

[Crimson Dynamo]

travellers in my opinion get the rep they make for themselves

just like say the Chinese community get a rep for being quite, hardworking and beneficial

[user104658]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

just like say the Chinese community get a rep for being quite, hardworking and beneficial

And seriously heavy gamblers. It's true tho

[Oliver_W]

I'm sure there are some travelers out there who are respectful to the natives of the areas they park at, never cause fights, and tidy up after themselves when they leave.

I've never actually heard of a single instance of this, but there probably is somewhere.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I'm sure there are some travelers out there who are respectful to the natives of the areas they park at, never cause fights, and tidy up after themselves when they leave.

I've never actually heard of a single instance of this, but there probably is somewhere.

Tbf you wouldn't hear of it as such, as...like the papers aren't going to print stuff like 'travellers stayed here and did not cause any problems'

And even among people you knw who have experienced stuff, if there were no issues they won't say anything or...they wouldn't even know the people were travellers. I mean I only knew because they made a huge song and dance about how they were travellers and 'hard as nails' to try and intimidate me into doing what they wanted me to do...which everytime was give them free alcohol, which was always a no, regardless of what threats they gave me