[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah and a person who is such a danger to children "getting off" on a technicality would be despicable

Yeah, when it's poorly done, a predator can get a mistrial. It's a complex issue, I don't think it should be as widespread a practice as it is but I can't fault the ones that are basically professionals at it. I think it's an issue I'm very much a hypocrite in since I oppose vigilantism but I can't bring myself to condemn hunters completely. It's a difficult one.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I get so conflicted over this subject in particular, vigilantism should be left to films and comic books and I do think that most groups probably do more harm then good but I can't really oppose people who expose this sort of thing. I know there's some organisations that do things the right way but I do think that, before long, there'll be incidents of stings gone wrong and I think people could get hurt.



I think the practice of basically anyone becoming a hunter should be discouraged but I can't oppose the more organised groups that do things by the book and get results.

I know of a group that was shut down (well, shut themselves down) because it did indeed go wrong. They posed as a 15 year old girl online, met up with what they believed to be an adult posing as a 16 year old boy, cornered and confronted him, live-streamed the whole thing to face book...

... Problem was, it actually was a 16 year old boy who happened to be tall and have a lot of facial hair for his age.

And who came from a rather ... Erm... Lively? family. Who tracked down the paedophile hunters and smashed in all of their windows and threatened to kill them.

I understand the motivations of these groups but I think it serves as an example of why these things should be left to professionals. At absolute most, they should just gather information online and hand it over to the police. The physical (and especially the live-streamed) confrontations are just too prone to errors being made.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I know of a group that was shut down (well, shut themselves down) because it did indeed go wrong. They posed as a 15 year old girl online, met up with what they believed to be an adult posing as a 16 year old boy, cornered and confronted him, live-streamed the whole thing to face book...

... Problem was, it actually was a 16 year old boy who happened to be tall and have a lot of facial hair for his age.

And who came from a rather ... Erm... Lively? family. Who tracked down the paedophile hunters and smashed in all of their windows and threatened to kill them.

I understand the motivations of these groups but I think it serves as an example of why these things should be left to professionals. At absolute most, they should just gather information online and hand it over to the police. The physical (and especially the live-streamed) confrontations are just too prone to errors being made.

Yeah, I despise the live streaming aspect since it becomes more about the clout rather than doing good. It basically becomes no different to Tommy Robinson trying to livestream those child abuse trials, it becomes about self promotion rather than bringing predators to justice.

I'm sure I've read about a few groups who don't do that sort of thing though, they gather evidence and turn it in and that's it and I admire those people since they are doing good for the sake of doing good. If it weren't for people like that, I'd oppose hunter groups but while you've got groups that handle things right and never make it about themselves, it's not a practice I can oppose although it often leaves me in a quandary about vigilantism since I oppose it otherwise.

[Oliver_W]

I will admit the predator catching streams can be addictive viewing the American ones anyroad.

But even then it feels like they're making it for the spectacle rather than justice. otherwise it'd just show the chat logs along with evidence as to who the person is.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I will admit the predator catching streams can be addictive viewing the American ones anyroad.



But even then it feels like they're making it for the spectacle rather than justice. otherwise it'd just show the chat logs along with evidence as to who the person is.

In America there's the added complication of aspects of their legal system, a good lawyer in most states will crumble the case because of the public streaming, entrapment issues, etc.

Even worse is when someone was already being investigated but the whole thing falls apart because of public involvement.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I will admit the predator catching streams can be addictive viewing the American ones anyroad.

But even then it feels like they're making it for the spectacle rather than justice. otherwise it'd just show the chat logs along with evidence as to who the person is.

Don't get me started , notice how everyone on YouTube now thinks they're a trained predator catcher vigilante hunter . Everyone wants to be Chris Hanson now .

This is dangerous and not to be made a spectacle of , and some of the videos are fake 100% with actors which I find distasteful and pointless.

But the ones that are real just make for uncomfortable viewing either way with the risks clearly showing.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I think the self-control aspect and people actually acting on it is probably a separate thing. In people with totally normal sexual urges it's not inevitable that someone who is sexually repressed will act on it, but a small number do. The vast majority of adult men who can't find another adult to have consensual sex with don't automatically decide to rape someone instead... They have the desire to have a sexual relationship with a woman but they're not going to harm someone to get it. But then there are those who do. It definitely must be partly an empathy issue, but I doubt rapists are generally sociopaths, which is uncomfortable in itself. When it comes to active child molesters it can be even more messed up because with "grooming" they can even convince themself that the child was a willing/consenting participant, which is really what a lot of these groups are about - trying to convince people that the kids are OK with it, because they actually believe it. Grim. It's compounded by the fact that a "groomed" child often seems totally fine while the abuse is going on and really doesn't understand what it is. Then they hit their teens and early adulthood when they can understand that they were abused, they realise what happened to them, and their mental health collapses. Like an abuse time-bomb. So if the child doesn't seem traumatised, or even upset, at the time... The child molester can convince himself that what he's doing isn't so bad.

I didn't suggest it was inevitable the repressed would act on urges. Rapists are very different, they are all about hate, power and control the very epitome of sociopathy. But that's not the same as imagining a child reciprocates feelings for you, that is a dangerous delusion no matter which way you look at it

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Smithy

Oh god I bet £1000 I know where this thread is gonna go

What was it you were expecting, and did it happen?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

What was it you were expecting, and did it happen?

I think the most important question is, who was the bet with, and will it be honoured?