[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

Even if you want to say I contradicted myself... like... do you understand it now then after I explain what I actually mean by what I said?

There was never a point when I didn't understand. Hence me pointing out your wild contradictions.

Like I'm exaggerating? I haven't suggested kids are psychologically affected by not being able to wear trainers at all.

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Jersey: It's not serious...

Also Jersey:

Originally Posted by Marsh.

There was never a point when I didn't understand. Hence me pointing out your wild contradictions.

Like I'm exaggerating? I haven't suggested kids are psychologically affected by not being able to wear trainers at all.

You're being smug, condescending, and a sarcastic smartass in every post. It's a serious debate now from my perspective. I'm just trying to debate against school uniforms while you're simply zoning in on specific delusional contradictions even after I draw it out how they're not contradictions at all. It's just something you haven't wrapped around being more than a black and white concept lol.

The debate seems to be over for you at this point though... now I don't even know your counter-argument yet when it's ended after countless back and forth posts

Just curious, have you learned psychology? Many kids do and will get psychologically affected if they don't feel comfortable in their own clothes btw. It's actually a common argument FOR school uniforms as well (ie within the bullying argument) but it depends which way you look at it and which psychological side you agree with, for schools to have it or not. But that's already obvious and not an exaggeration unless you make it out to be something bigger than it is. My point with this in particular: I disagree that sheltering kids from wearing their own clothes is going to be a fix for bullying. It's putting a bandaid on a broken finger and not taking the right actions whatsoever.

[Jessica.]

I liked wearing uniform because I didn't have proper clothes to wear day to day. I think they're good and there wasn't really an option to wear cheaper or more expensive versions of our specific uniform, it all had to be the same one from the same shop. The most popular shoes were actually some plain black ones from a very cheap shoe shop.

Times have changed a lot in the past ten years since I was in school and I think most young people don't care about labels and prefer to express their own style.

So I think my answer is both.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

You're being smug, condescending, and a sarcastic smartass in every post.

And you're being contradictory, silly and a bit thick.

(See, we can both make personal remarks).

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

The debate seems to be over for you at this point though... now I don't even know your counter-argument yet when it's ended after countless back and forth posts

Just curious, have you learned psychology? Many kids do and will get psychologically affected if they don't feel comfortable in their own clothes btw. It's actually a common argument FOR school uniforms as well (ie within the bullying argument) but it depends which way you look at it and which psychological side you agree with, for schools to have it or not. But that's already obvious and not an exaggeration unless you make it out to be something bigger than it is. My point with this in particular: I disagree that sheltering kids from wearing their own clothes is going to be a fix for bullying. It's putting a bandaid on a broken finger and not taking the right actions whatsoever.

Many kids learning about psychology is not evidence that school uniforms affect kids psychologically. Hilarious that you think it is tbh.

Still confused why you keep bringing the bullying argument up, I haven't mentioned bullying. Read my posts properly.

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Many kids learning about psychology is not evidence that school uniforms affect kids psychologically. Hilarious that you think it is tbh.

Still confused why you keep bringing the bullying argument up, I haven't mentioned bullying. Read my posts properly.

"Many kids do and will get psychologically affected if they don't feel comfortable in their own clothes btw." Erm that was supposed to be one sentence that wasn't connected to the sentence before. Had nothing to do with psychology classes. I hope I haven't contradicted myself again now.

That's yet another time you just have responded to one little part of my argument, and it just so happens I meant something else again.

Idk if you're trying to do this as a troll at this point. But I do legitimately think I worded that pretty poorly so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt this time lol.

School uniforms will have some psychological effect on some kids. There's literally no way around that statement... like it might not be a common thing to you but it still happens and it should not be this hard to believe.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

"Many kids do and will get psychologically affected if they don't feel comfortable in their own clothes btw." Erm that was supposed to be one sentence that wasn't connected to the sentence before. Had nothing to do with psychology classes. I hope I haven't contradicted myself again now.

That's yet another time you just have responded to one little part of my argument, and it just so happens I meant something else again.

Idk if you're trying to do this as a troll at this point. But I do legitimately think I worded that pretty poorly so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt this time lol.

School uniforms will have some psychological effect on some kids. There's literally no way around that statement... like it might not be a common thing to you but it still happens and it should not be this hard to believe.

Yep, every post has been worded pretty poor tbh.

Stating "Some school uniforms will have some psychological effect" doesn't make it fact. Any evidence to back up this claim?

(Hmm, now I'm a troll. Yeah, keep digging).

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Marsh

And you're being contradictory, silly and a bit thick.

(See, we can both make personal remarks).

You already said all of this a ton of times in your previous posts btw. Just because you keep stating it doesn't make it fact You can't just misquote part of my sentence out of context and call it contradictory.

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Yep, every post has been worded pretty poor tbh.

Stating "Some school uniforms will have some psychological effect" doesn't make it fact. Any evidence to back up this claim?

(Hmm, now I'm a troll. Yeah, keep digging).

I've already spent much more than the amount of time I'd like on this to be mostly ignored for false accusations of contradictions... I'm not going to look for article proof of this or quotes from kids to prove a point


Is anyone providing any evidence for their arguments that school uniforms: prevent bullying, saves time, creates a better learning environment, etc. etc. etc.

I can explain to you many examples again, just off the top of my head?

You need an article for facts that are already obvious? I don't see how you can't fathom that a kid could feel: uncomfortable with the type of uniform they're given (particularly something like a skirt for a girl if it's not a choice), restricted in their own creative style, being forced into constant repetition every morning, etc. all of which are psychological distractions in a young kid's mind. (some people like change, some people like expressing their own style in a wardrobe, etc. and it's their bodies not the school's) Some people start going crazy just from wearing the same color every day and things like that. There are weird little psychological things so many people have in the world... being forced to wear school uniforms can easily trigger one of these. And it's only little kids we're talking about here. It's also an easy reason for a troubled kid to become rebellious from it and then they're only worsening their education for something that is far from helping their education. A kid like that should be helped, not punished further for a policy that is quite pointless when it comes down to it.

Side note: You're telling me if a kid doesn't have the correct uniform they're going to be denied an education that day or punished in some way? That's ridiculous imho Discipline them in ways that matter for learning.

Again, I think that you still think just because I say psychological, it has to be this big proposition that means the child is going to have to get some therapy sessions as a result of the uniforms. It's how you're acting when I say the word psychological. Whatever psychological impact it might have on a kid is not as big of a deal as YOU'RE thinking. But it could be any or all of these minor psychological effects that a kid can have and it's not as non-existent in kids as you're pretending it to be.

If the uniforms aren't helping their education then I don't think they should have to wear them. Feel free to argue why they should have to wear them whenever you'd like..... ?

[JerseyWins]

Just because you don't think that way doesn't mean nobody does.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

Just because you don't think that way doesn't mean nobody does.

It's not about thinking a certain way. You can't state your opinion is fact and not back it up.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

Side note: You're telling me if a kid doesn't have the correct uniform they're going to be denied an education that day or punished in some way? That's ridiculous imho Discipline them in ways that matter for learning.

Erm, what?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

I don't see how you can't fathom that a kid could feel: uncomfortable with the type of uniform they're given (particularly something like a skirt for a girl if it's not a choice), restricted in their own creative style, being forced into constant repetition every morning, etc. all of which are psychological distractions in a young kid's mind. (some people like change, some people like expressing their own style in a wardrobe, etc. and it's their bodies not the school's) Some people start going crazy just from wearing the same color every day and things like that. There are weird little psychological things so many people have in the world... being forced to wear school uniforms can easily trigger one of these.

Pretty big stretch to go from a girl feeling uncomfortable in a skirt to psychological distractions caused by "constant repetition every morning" it's a wonder these delicate flowers don't have psychotic breaks from sleeping in the same bed and brushing their teeth everyday.

The kind of person you describe needs medication, not new clothes.

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

It's not about thinking a certain way. You can't state your opinion is fact and not back it up.

My opinions for anti-uniforms are opinions

The fact uniforms can affect a child psychologically is a fact, and then I give examples how constantly throughout this thread

Psychological:
of, affecting, or arising in the mind; related to the mental and emotional state of a person

Whether it's positive or negative, psychology is the whole basis of this

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

My opinions for anti-uniforms are opinions

The fact uniforms can affect a child psychologically is a fact, and then I give examples how constantly throughout this thread

Actual examples of things that have actually happened? If not, you can't state it proves your opinion to be fact.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

Psychological:
of, affecting, or arising in the mind; related to the mental and emotional state of a person

Whether it's positive or negative, psychology is the whole basis of this

Dictionary definitions don't change anything.

We all know what psychology is.

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Pretty big stretch to go from a girl feeling uncomfortable in a skirt to psychological distractions caused by "constant repetition every morning" it's a wonder these delicate flowers don't have psychotic breaks from sleeping in the same bed and brushing their teeth everyday.

The kind of person you describe needs medication, not new clothes.

(that's a legitimate props to you laugh)

But I can't use contrasting bigger and smaller examples just to show how there's psychological effects involved in this? There are so many different psychological states in the world. You seem to be of the imagination that there's only one, the types that would never be affected psychologically by a school uniform, as if that's everyone in the world.

And these are kids we're talking about, not an adult.

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Actual examples of things that have actually happened? If not, you can't state it proves your opinion to be fact.

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Dictionary definitions don't change anything.

We all know what psychology is.

Refer to: Example A (girl wearing a skirt every day)
Refer to: Example B (kid being restricted creatively)
Refer to: Posts in this thread that have already been made by people saying they weren't/aren't comfortable with these things but may have accepted them with no choice.

And the fact that everyone is in a different psychological state. Some people have anxiety, other conditions, and so on. People CAN get psychologically affected by something as simple as a uniform. It's simple knowledge but whatevs

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

(that's a legitimate props to you laugh)

But I can't use contrasting bigger and smaller examples just to show how there's psychological effects involved in this? There are so many different psychological states in the world. You seem to be of the imagination that there's only one, the types that would never be affected psychologically by a school uniform, as if that's everyone in the world.

And these are kids we're talking about, not an adult.

How so?

You are the one talking about kids being "negatively psychologically affected by wearing a school uniform" then claim it is fact but offer no evidence to support it other than a dictionary definition.

Maybe look up the dictionary definition of the word "fact".

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

Refer to: Example A (girl wearing a skirt every day)
Refer to: Example B (kid being restricted creatively)
Refer to: Posts in this thread that have already been made by people saying they weren't/aren't comfortable with these things but may have accepted them with no choice.

And the fact that everyone is in a different psychological state. Some people have anxiety, other conditions, and so on. People CAN get psychologically affected by something as simple as a uniform. It's simple knowledge but whatevs

An actual real-life example, you know to prove it. Not a hypothetical. I could give you an example of a uniform causing a kid to sprout wings and fly, that doesn't make it real nor factual.

Sorry, but backtracking and talking about "OOOH WELL, someone may suffer with anxiety and, ooh, maybe they're forced to wear a skirt that makes that anxiety worse" really doesn't help that argument. Anxiety can be affected by literally anything and everything in life. Does that mean "anxiety" is a reason to ban and change anything and everything? Does that mean anything that triggers that anxiety is actually to blame for the anxiety? No. That would be, hmmm, ridiculous.

You suggested a uniform can affect someone psychologically in a negative way, not that a uniform can be the trigger (of which ANYTHING can be the trigger) of an already existing psychological disorder. That's a completely different point.

[JerseyWins]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

How so?

You are the one talking about kids being "negatively psychologically affected by wearing a school uniform" then claim it is fact but offer no evidence to support it other than a dictionary definition.

Maybe look up the dictionary definition of the word "fact".

I was honestly just thinking this. I truly feel (know) it's a fact from what I've learned and heard about but since I don't have hard proof evidence with me you're kinda right in that regard that I shouldn't call it a fact anyway. I could say it's my opinion if that would go back to debating the actual points at hand?

What are you looking for? An example of a kid doing something drastic as a result of uniforms? Because in most cases it doesn't get that extreme over a uniform so it's kinda hard to find documented proof of examples. I always said this is not something likely to become extreme... I just don't think it's worth it to have uniforms for the potential downside there and the fact it doesn't actually help students learn.

Finally, anxiety is an example to show you that people react psychologically different to different things. Anxiety and further conditions are higher up the scale from a psychological standpoint. I feel like you didn't understand that not everyone is at an apex psychological state and I'm still not sure

Therefore, if not everyone is at an apex psychological state, there can be psychological triggers (I wasn't saying just people with anxiety/depression or conditions like that when I say triggers) from being forced into the same uniform every day that they may REALLY not like or REALLY be uncomfortable with. That's my OPINION

Like is it that complex? I don't think so.

"An actual real-life example, you know to prove it. Not a hypothetical. I could give you an example of a uniform causing a kid to sprout wings and fly, that doesn't make it real nor factual."
People in this thread have confirmed the basis of my examples/hypotheticals THEMSELVES and I have provided the psychological theory for the rest... I'm not making examples and hypotheticals out of thin air.

And way to go with yet another major exaggeration with the last part.

[JerseyWins]

Also, I know your focus is debating against my own points rather than making your own for the opposing side, which is a fair way to debate don't get me wrong... but it's a bit easy to demand evidence for one side of the argument while not even adding your own points, let alone proof of your own for the other side?

How do I even know that with your points here, you're not "digging" a hole for the opposite side of why we SHOULD have uniforms --- if apparently it's ludicrous that we shouldn't for these reasons.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

What are you looking for? An example of a kid doing something drastic as a result of uniforms? Because in most cases it doesn't get that extreme over a uniform so it's kinda hard to find documented proof of examples. I always said this is not something likely to become extreme... I just don't think it's worth it to have uniforms for the potential downside there and the fact it doesn't actually help students learn.

Finally, anxiety is an example to show you that people react psychologically different to different things. Anxiety and further conditions are higher up the scale from a psychological standpoint. I feel like you didn't understand that not everyone is at an apex psychological state and I'm still not sure

Therefore, if not everyone is at an apex psychological state, there can be psychological triggers (I wasn't saying just people with anxiety/depression or conditions like that when I say triggers) from being forced into the same uniform every day that they may REALLY not like or REALLY be uncomfortable with. That's my OPINION

Like is it that complex? I don't think so.

"An actual real-life example, you know to prove it. Not a hypothetical. I could give you an example of a uniform causing a kid to sprout wings and fly, that doesn't make it real nor factual."
People in this thread have confirmed the basis of my examples/hypotheticals THEMSELVES and I have provided the psychological theory for the rest... I'm not making examples and hypotheticals out of thin air.

And way to go with yet another major exaggeration with the last part.

First of all, I'M not looking for anything. You are the one making the claims and it's down to you to back them up.

Yes, people react differently to anything in life. Just as ANYTHING can be a trigger to someone suffering with anxiety or any other mental illness.

That doesn't support your stance that is against uniforms as they "could form part of a trigger for an already ill person" as ANYTHING can form a trigger for them, and not all of them will be at all bothered by a uniform. There is no DIRECT correlation for it to be used as a reason to not have school uniforms.

Is it that complex? Well actually yes, which is why your argument doesn't work.

But, again, uniforms are the norm over here. You're from America aren't you? I imagine the norm is the opposite.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

Also, I know your focus is debating against my own points rather than making your own for the opposing side, which is a fair way to debate don't get me wrong... but it's a bit easy to demand evidence for one side of the argument while not even adding your own points, let alone proof of your own for the other side?

How do I even know that with your points here, you're not "digging" a hole for the opposite side of why we SHOULD have uniforms --- if apparently it's ludicrous that we shouldn't for these reasons.

I've already given my own comment on what I think of uniforms. It's your opinion that we are discussing and you have struggled to expand on.

What's a bit easy? That you have made some statements that don't add up? I'm not using this as an argument FOR uniforms, just pointing out that it doesn't work as an argument not to have them.

You could call for anything to be banned on the "it might trigger someones anxieties".

You want proof of something? Ask me! All you've done is ask me about bullying... a point I haven't made.

But then maybe you'd feel more comfortable wall messaging another forum member about it?

Have a good day.

[AnnieK]

I can't believe this has got so deep.

Uniforms do as the name suggests, provide uniformity to kids at school. It also provides them with a "school identity". Jersey - I'm not sure what its like where you are in the States but where I am right now within a 3 mile radius we have 3 high schools, the uniform also helps to distinguish which school they are from for a variety of reasons including identifying truancy (although they are more likely not to be in uniform), being able to identify any safeguarding issues (if they are out of school when they should be in etc), any kids causing trouble can be reported to schools etc etc.

Kids here are used to wearing uniforms - until I read this thread, I didn't think anyone thought it was a big issue. Kids in the UK, when they get to High School pretty much accept there is a uniform, I can't see it changing and the nightmare that "non-uniform" days used to cause when I was at school made me dread them

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I think its a good thing, particularly for parents, getting kids out to school in the morning can be hard enough, add into the mix ' what am I wearing' and it becomes more of a drudge

It prepares students for life outside school, as in most work places there is a uniform of some description

Also saves money as wearing the same clothes to school each day would not be acceptable to some kids

very sensible post Cherie,go to the top of the class.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I can't believe this has got so deep.

Uniforms do as the name suggests, provide uniformity to kids at school. It also provides them with a "school identity". Jersey - I'm not sure what its like where you are in the States but where I am right now within a 3 mile radius we have 3 high schools, the uniform also helps to distinguish which school they are from for a variety of reasons including identifying truancy (although they are more likely not to be in uniform), being able to identify any safeguarding issues (if they are out of school when they should be in etc), any kids causing trouble can be reported to schools etc etc.

Kids here are used to wearing uniforms - until I read this thread, I didn't think anyone thought it was a big issue. Kids in the UK, when they get to High School pretty much accept there is a uniform, I can't see it changing and the nightmare that "non-uniform" days used to cause when I was at school made me dread them

Completely agree.