[lime]

Originally Posted by wannashag

they would have been a nazi german had people not have volunteered to fight in the war and defend whats their's.

or even more likely, you wouldn't even exist.

What ????
Time to go back to the history books mate.The Nazis were never going to illegally occupy Ireland.The Brits were doing a good job of that.In fact if you do some research you will find that the some Irish helped the germans as they seen WW1 as their only chance of freedoom.
I'm not even european and I know this

[Wildcat!]

good subjet Steph!
Anyways, for those talking about heave doesnt exist, there is no god, etc.... I think it goes without saying, that this subject would apply to those who do believe in god, and heaven and hell. Obvious right? ITs like If you were filling out a questionnare, this is where you would pick N/A (not applicable, since I dont believe in heaven and hell). But we get it, you want to reiterate, how, you dont believe in god, good for you.

Anyways, as for the question, Imo, it depends on your cause. I think most people who believe in a religion, know whats right and whats wrong. If you believe in the cause youre fighting for, and that you are doing some good, I think its perfectly fine to go to war.

As for the people calling them stupid, another thing I dont agree with. There are a lot of dangerous professions, where you can get killed, Policemen, Fire fighters, even certain factory workers. Does that make them stupid too? I dont agree at all with that.
And by the way, do you know what the odds are of a british soldier, to die, before they retire? Very, very slim, so its not as risky for them, as it is for say the iraqi soldier. Of all the 100's of 1000s of troups sent in war in the middle east, you hear mumbers like 100's who are dead. Its not even 1%, so, not that deadly really, and they make a damn good amount of money.

[M X]

My cousin who I think of as a brother, is going to Afghan soon. And besides, I don't believe in heaven or hell tbh.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by Stu

Don't call her stupid. I believe she is dead right. At the end of the day if they did not join the army, they would not be face down in the fucking sand. Rough truth, but a truth nonetheless. Unless you want to dispute that very simple fact.

If she is old enough to make such a thread and make the comments that she made - then she is old enough to take the heat! She can't have it both ways!

[InOne]

Well first off with the Heaven and Hell bit. Hell does not exist, thinking a Solider is either going to Heaven or Hell is not really a good way of looking at it.

Second of all, it was Stupid of Steph to say those things. I really would not say that in kinda stuff in Public, alot of people woyld not be very happy!!! And even if the soilders and being mislead and stuff, they are still out their fighting!! If you can't even support your own countries soliders it's not good is it!! My friend writes to Soliders and stuff, it would be alot worse being out there thinking your country is not behind you when you're deep in the Middle East. Yes people have their opinions, but calling Soliders 'stupid' is pretty ridiculous, yes they might be naive and that, but if they don't fight for the country, who will?

[Stu]

The naive people will. I'm sorry, but I'm not changing my views. Any job you volunteer for that carries the risk of possible death is a stupid job to volunteer for. Simple as, IMO.

That's not a reflection on soldiers being bad people. I don't know them all personally thus such judgments would be misguided, but do I consider it stupid to join the army? You bet.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Stu

The stupid people will. I'm sorry, but I'm not changing my views. Any job you volunteer for that carries the risk of possible death is a stupid job to volunteer for. Simple as, IMO.

I still would support them. An army is needed.

[setanta]

Originally Posted by Stu

The naive people will. I'm sorry, but I'm not changing my views. Any job you volunteer for that carries the risk of possible death is a stupid job to volunteer for. Simple as, IMO.

That's not a reflection on soldiers being bad people. I don't know them all personally thus such judgments would be misguided, but do I consider it stupid to join the army? You bet.

Ah Stu now come on, you can't be saying that about people. Some people are not in the same position financially, politically or intellectually to have the same thoughts concerning the army that you maintain so it's a little harsh to be calling them stupid because they risk getting killed. In any case, some would argue that there's an honour in risking your life for your country.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by setanta

Ah Stu now come on, you can't be saying that about people. Some people are not in the same position financially, politically or intellectually to have the same thoughts concerning the army that you maintain so it's a little harsh to be calling them stupid because they risk getting killed. In any case, some would argue that there's an honour in risking your life for your country.

They are naive. Little less harsh maybe. The situation is certainly stupid. The job is certainly stupid. I can respect the fact that some don't have much choice. That's the tragedy of the army, really. Look at the American army, and certainly some of the British. It's a lot of the poorest of society, who have been treated the worst by the government, being brainwashed by these pathetic ads to take up arms and fight for the rich in a cause they don't understand. Still, how much intellect does it take to realize that war = possible death?

As for honor in risking your life for your country, that's a matter of personal opinion I suppose but hardcore patriotism always baffled me. Put your family first. Not the country you were born in.

[setanta]

Originally Posted by Stu

They are naive. Little less harsh maybe. The situation is certainly stupid. The job is certainly stupid. I can respect the fact that some don't have much choice. That's the tragedy of the army, really. Look at the American army, and certainly some of the British. It's a lot of the poorest of society, who have been treated the worst by the government, being brainwashed by these pathetic ads to take up arms and fight for the rich in a cause they don't understand. Still, how much intellect does it take to realize that war = possible death?

As for honor in risking your life for your country, that's a matter of personal opinion I suppose but hardcore patriotism always baffled me. Put your family first. Not the country you were born in.

But in the case of nations with a long history of conflict you're putting your family first by enlisting as it maintains the honour of your clan, with grandparents or fathers having fought the good fight already, you know? It's a tribal duty really as well as a patriotic one.

Ireland has never had that kinda tradition so we naturally look very cautiously and possibly cynically on any conflicts that arise in world affairs. Some people just don't have that luxury.

But yeah, it's sad to see how people are exploited in this day and age but sure that's the way of the world unfortunately.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by setanta

But in the case of nations with a long history of conflict you're putting your family first by enlisting as it maintains the honour of your clan, with grandparents or fathers having fought the good fight already, you know? It's a tribal duty really as well as a patriotic one.

Ireland has never had that kinda tradition so we naturally look very cautiously and possibly cynically on any conflicts that arise in world affairs. Some people just don't have that luxury.

But yeah, it's sad to see how people are exploited in this day and age but sure that's the way of the world unfortunately.

Good point, but I think we should be past the tribal stages of humanity by now, and more concerned about honoring our families by keeping ourselves alive for them.

And yeah, we have an odd ol' way of looking at world conflicts. Like an old man in a rocking chair watching a horse race, sometimes!

[Captain.Remy]

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

good subjet Steph!
Anyways, for those talking about heave doesnt exist, there is no god, etc.... I think it goes without saying, that this subject would apply to those who do believe in god, and heaven and hell. Obvious right? ITs like If you were filling out a questionnare, this is where you would pick N/A (not applicable, since I dont believe in heaven and hell). But we get it, you want to reiterate, how, you dont believe in god, good for you.

Anyways, as for the question, Imo, it depends on your cause. I think most people who believe in a religion, know whats right and whats wrong. If you believe in the cause youre fighting for, and that you are doing some good, I think its perfectly fine to go to war.

As for the people calling them stupid, another thing I dont agree with. There are a lot of dangerous professions, where you can get killed, Policemen, Fire fighters, even certain factory workers. Does that make them stupid too? I dont agree at all with that.
And by the way, do you know what the odds are of a british soldier, to die, before they retire? Very, very slim, so its not as risky for them, as it is for say the iraqi soldier. Of all the 100's of 1000s of troups sent in war in the middle east, you hear mumbers like 100's who are dead. Its not even 1%, so, not that deadly really, and they make a damn good amount of money.

Perfect speech, I don't need to add anything, I couldn't agree more.

It's funny we don't practice the same religion yet we have the same view on this topic, whoever God is to the both of us.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

good subjet Steph!
Anyways, for those talking about heave doesnt exist, there is no god, etc.... I think it goes without saying, that this subject would apply to those who do believe in god, and heaven and hell. Obvious right? ITs like If you were filling out a questionnare, this is where you would pick N/A (not applicable, since I dont believe in heaven and hell). But we get it, you want to reiterate, how, you dont believe in god, good for you.

Anyways, as for the question, Imo, it depends on your cause. I think most people who believe in a religion, know whats right and whats wrong. If you believe in the cause youre fighting for, and that you are doing some good, I think its perfectly fine to go to war.

As for the people calling them stupid, another thing I dont agree with. There are a lot of dangerous professions, where you can get killed, Policemen, Fire fighters, even certain factory workers. Does that make them stupid too? I dont agree at all with that.
And by the way, do you know what the odds are of a british soldier, to die, before they retire? Very, very slim, so its not as risky for them, as it is for say the iraqi soldier. Of all the 100's of 1000s of troups sent in war in the middle east, you hear mumbers like 100's who are dead. Its not even 1%, so, not that deadly really, and they make a damn good amount of money.

The 100th soldier to die since the war began back in 2003 only happened a few weeks ago. Obviously its 100 too many but in the grand scheme of things its a tiny percentage as you say.

[InOne]

Always make the news when a Solider dies, I think it can get abit soppy sometimes really.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by InOne

Always make the news when a Solider dies, I think it can get abit soppy sometimes really.

It should make the news though, every single time - sign of respect for their sacrifice!

[InOne]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

It should make the news though, every single time - sign of respect for their sacrifice!

I suppose, I think it is more the way they report it on the news. Plus that Obama sending in more troops and stuff has been dominating the Headlines. The Taliban said they are going to up their game too, it's not going to end.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by InOne

I suppose, I think it is more the way they report it on the news. Plus that Obama sending in more troops and stuff has been dominating the Headlines. The Taliban said they are going to up their game too, it's not going to end.

I know - scary stuff! Makes you wonder if a solution can ever be found. Too many people will die - on both sides - for what! Personally - I would rather see the politicians get tooled-up and be forced to fight that fight themselves. How just would that be!

[InOne]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

I know - scary stuff! Makes you wonder if a solution can ever be found. Too many people will die - on both sides - for what! Personally - I would rather see the politicians get tooled-up and be forced to fight that fight themselves. How just would that be!

Yeah the war on 'Terror' is ridiculous really. I don't think we're as brutal as the Taliban really.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

I know - scary stuff! Makes you wonder if a solution can ever be found. Too many people will die - on both sides - for what! Personally - I would rather see the politicians get tooled-up and be forced to fight that fight themselves. How just would that be!

True.

People are comparing it now to Vietnam. Scary comparison.

[setanta]

Somebody once wrote: 'Hell is the impossibility of reason.' That's what this place feels like. Hell.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by wannashag

they would have been a nazi german had people not have volunteered to fight in the war and defend whats their's.

or even more likely, you wouldn't even exist.

????????????????????????

why are you saying this to me???????????????

[Niamh.]

are you saying my kids would have been German if it wasn't for the British army is it??????? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, If it wasn't for the british army who tried to take over Ireland is it????? and split the country in two is it???? Is that the British army you're talking about???????????

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

are you saying my kids would have been German if it wasn't for the British army is it??????? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, If it wasn't for the british army who tried to take over Ireland is it????? and split the country in two is it???? Is that the British army you're talking about???????????

Well the Irish supported the Nazi's, as they hated the English.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

are you saying my kids would have been German if it wasn't for the British army is it??????? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, If it wasn't for the british army who tried to take over Ireland is it????? and split the country in two is it???? Is that the British army you're talking about???????????

I think it is, my dear .

He may have a point with the spread of Nazism even if Hitler abandoned all Irish invasion plans but it's a pretty douche argument when you consider what the British did to this country for generations.

Originally Posted by InOne

Well the Irish supported the Nazi's, as they hated the English.

Get your facts right. Small paramilitary groups tried, and failed, to work with the Nazi's. On the other hand, thousands of Irishmen fought alongside the British.

Christ, I can't believe what I am hearing.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Stu

I think it is, my dear .

He may have a point with the spread of Nazism even if Hitler abandoned all Irish invasion plans but it's a pretty douche argument when you consider what the British did to this country for generations.


Get your facts right. Small paramilitary groups tried, and failed, to work with the Nazi's. On the other hand, thousands of Irishmen fought alongside the British.

Christ, I can't believe what I am hearing.

I know not all. But I think that is the point he was trying to make.