[Jamie89]

You're all talking as if you KNOW lol. No one knows or understands the complexities of how sexuality is developed, just like there's so many other things about us and our brains for example that noone understands. The only thing we can be sure about is that it isn't a choice

[Daniel.]

It's nature, I don't believe it's nurture for a minute

[Glenn.]

I don't like the idea of being told 'you're gay because of this' or 'oh that's why you're gay' it's a crock of ****. I'm gay because I'm gay, that's the way is. I can't change that.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Quasar

I don't like the idea of being told 'you're gay because of this' or 'oh that's why you're gay' it's a crock of ****. I'm gay because I'm gay, that's the way is. I can't change that.

Nobody's saying you can change it though. :cons:

You're still assuming this is all to do with influencing a person to make a conscious decision. It isn't.

Do you honestly think you'd be the exact same person you are today if you were brought up by another family? In another culture? Another country? etc etc

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Nobody's saying you can change it though. :cons:

You're still assuming this is all to do with influencing a person to make a conscious decision. It isn't.

Do you honestly think you'd be the exact same person you are today if you were brought up by another family? In another culture? Another country? etc etc

Sexuality is nothing to do with culture, what country you're in or what family you're brought up in. It's unique to a equally unique being.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Quasar

Sexuality is nothing to do with culture, what country you're in or what family you're brought up in. It's unique to a equally unique being.

I never said that. I'm suggesting everything about a person is a combination of everything that surrounds a person, who they interact with, the experiences they have, the childhood they had. It all comes together to make a person who they are.

It's not as simple as saying, you have a short temper because your mum does, you're straight because your dad is a religious homophobic etc. Humans are complex with many sides to them, all of which have some root in our experiences and our past.

Hence therapy and counselling helping people get to the root of things about themselves, discover things about themselves by looking back on their lives.

That's why babies are so bloody dull, , they haven't formed anything yet because they're new. As they grow you see their "person" form and change and adapt as they grow up due to a combination of EVERYTHING that makes them who they are.

I meant sexuality is just as much a part of you as everything else that you are, your personality traits and everything. All of which wouldn't be exactly the same if your life to date had been affected by different factors. Is that suggesting you chose to be gay? No. Is it suggesting you chose to be... I don't know... short tempered? Or hate baked beans? Or what sense of humour you have? No it means it's all formed from a bunch of variable factors that are different for everyone.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Quasar

I don't like the idea of being told 'you're gay because of this' or 'oh that's why you're gay' it's a crock of ****. I'm gay because I'm gay, that's the way is. I can't change that.

Why are you being so hostile? I get the feeling it's because you still have the misconception that by arguing that sexuality is socialised you think people believe it's a choice and that it can be changed, and if so I need to categorically repeat it again - that is not the case. The two are not related.

You do not choose your sexuality, and you cannot change it. It is a moronic argument, but one that is totally separate from the idea that much like every other aspect of every human being on the planet, your sexuality is socialised, learned behaviour.

Yes you are gay because you're gay, but there are reasons why people are a lot of things, and they need to be researched and analysed so we can begin to understand the world we live in and why we are the way we are. Whether you wish to listen to that or not is up to you, doesn't mean it shouldn't be theorised about or isn't real though

[Jordan.]

The thought that you're born with all your preferences already determined seems wrong to me

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Jordan.

The thought that you're born with all your preferences already determined seems wrong to me

Because it is wrong, like I said we are all born pretty much as blank slates and the people we become is the product of the environment we are born into

Like, it's actually a hilarious notion to me to think that there's a female foetus floating around in the womb right now that is already wanting a Barbie doll, is looking forward to watching The Apprentice, likes Taylor Swift, has a Scouse accent, eats with their knife and fork the 'wrong way round', gesticulates a lot when speaking and is ravenous for some cock

From the second a child is born they are learning about what this bizarre place is and in the process every inch of their personality and identity is being formed. There is nothing inherent about any of it, it is all a product of socialisation

[Jordan.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Because it is wrong, like I said we are all born pretty much as blank slates and the people we become is the product of the environment we are born into

Like, it's actually a hilarious notion to me to think that there's a female foetus floating around in the womb right now that is already wanting a Barbie doll, is looking forward to watching The Apprentice, likes Taylor Swift, has a Scouse accent, eats with their knife and fork the 'wrong way round', gesticulates a lot when speaking and is ravenous for some cock

From the second a child is born they are learning about what this bizarre place is and in the process every inch of their personality and identity is being formed. There is nothing inherent about any of it, it is all a product of socialisation

Screaming at the middle part. Yeah I agree with you though.

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Like, it's actually a hilarious notion to me to think that there's a female foetus floating around in the womb right now that is already wanting a Barbie doll, is looking forward to watching The Apprentice, likes Taylor Swift, has a Scouse accent, eats with their knife and fork the 'wrong way round', gesticulates a lot when speaking and is ravenous for some cock

oh my god

[JoshBB]

I remember my Psychology teacher mentioning we'll be looking at sexuality in a few months..

so I'll report back to yall and provide you with the deets

[Rob!]

The only form of penetration I can do is to stick it in a hole that **** comes out of. Why would I choose that?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Rob!

The only form of penetration I can do is to stick it in a hole that **** comes out of. Why would I choose that?

Because you like scat?

[Rob!]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Because you like scat?

See you in six months

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Rob!

See you in six months

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Because you like scat?

[Glenn.]

I didn't realise people were being that literal with the thread. Of course I don't think that there are gay babies being born and they are aware of it. But the phrase, 'born gay' is just a phrase.
I don't feel I was nurtured in anyway to be gay. There wasn't anything that helped me sway towards men, nothing that influenced it, which is basically what the nuture argument is about.
When a gay person says I was born gay, they mean that at the time they felt a bit differently or acted a bit differently, looking back when they knew what that meant, it's easy to say, 'I've been gay for a very long time'

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Quasar

I didn't realise people were being that literal with the thread. Of course I don't think that there are gay babies being born and they are aware of it. But the phrase, 'born gay' is just a phrase.
I don't feel I was nurtured in anyway to be gay. There wasn't anything that helped me sway towards men, nothing that influenced it, which is basically what the nuture argument is about.
When a gay person says I was born gay, they mean that at the time they felt a bit differently or acted a bit differently, looking back when they knew what that meant, it's easy to say, 'I've been gay for a very long time'

Nurture doesn't mean there has to be a specific pin point of something that made them gay.

It's saying that, just like everything else about that person, it's a combination of EVERYTHING in their life. Therefore you can't have a formula for what makes anyone anything because no two people have the same experiences/life specifically. There are too many factors involved in life to pinpoint.

It's one huge lottery. Depending on which variables in our lives change, we can be different people in different ways, sexuality included.

Like earlier, I wasn't suggesting a different culture would make you gay or straight, I was suggesting culture is ONE OF MANY ways in which someone's life can be different and therefore have created a different person.

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Nurture doesn't mean there has to be a specific pin point of something that made them gay.

It's saying that, just like everything else about that person, it's a combination of EVERYTHING in their life. Therefore you can't have a formula for what makes anyone anything because no two people have the same experiences/life specifically. There are too many factors involved in life to pinpoint.

It's one huge lottery. Depending on which variables in our lives change, we can be different people in different ways, sexuality included.

So many things influence it then?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Quasar

So many things influence it then?

Yes.

But things influence it all the same. It isn't an inherent part of you that you are born with, like a hereditary condition.

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Yes.

But things influence it all the same. It isn't an inherent part of you that you are born with, like a hereditary condition.

So how does the nuture argument have any basis then?

[Rob!]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Yes.

But things influence it all the same. It isn't an inherent part of you that you are born with, like a hereditary condition.

Is it not a genetic thing though somewhere along the line or is that all just bull****?

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Quasar

I didn't realise people were being that literal with the thread. Of course I don't think that there are gay babies being born and they are aware of it. But the phrase, 'born gay' is just a phrase.
I don't feel I was nurtured in anyway to be gay. There wasn't anything that helped me sway towards men, nothing that influenced it, which is basically what the nuture argument is about.
When a gay person says I was born gay, they mean that at the time they felt a bit differently or acted a bit differently, looking back when they knew what that meant, it's easy to say, 'I've been gay for a very long time'

You won't feel that your sexuality was nurtured though or be able to pin point specific things that helped develop it, of course not. Just as you won't be able to recall specific things that created your mannerisms, your interests, your style choices, your personality, etc etc. It's not something you can really look back on and correlate saying 'yeah that caused that and x caused y', it just happens without you even knowing.

When people realise they are gay, even when they're very young, that is because their sexuality has been formed in the early years of their life. I'm sorry but I really can't buy into the notion that you're sat in the womb, or even as far back as being part sperm part egg, and already you're gagging for the d or v. Or both. Babies are the the furthest thing from sexualised you can get.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Jack_

You won't feel that your sexuality was nurtured though or be able to pin point specific things that helped develop it, of course not. Just as you won't be able to recall specific things that created your mannerisms, your interests, your style choices, your personality, etc etc. It's not something you can really look back on and correlate saying 'yeah that caused that and x caused y', it just happens without you even knowing.

When people realise they are gay, even when they're very young, that is because their sexuality has been formed in the early years of their life. I'm sorry but I really can't buy into the notion that you're sat in the womb, or even as far back as being part sperm part egg, and already you're gagging for the d or v. Or both. Babies are the the furthest thing from sexualised you can get.

Then you are in direct opposition to the latest 'Scientific' views:

http://http://www.pinknews.co.uk/201...nd-the-answer/

There are numerous 'Scientific' 'Papers' and 'Reports' out there which all reach a similar conclusion - Gays are BORN this way.

For me people who practice a certain type of 'homosexuality' because they have been 'conditioned' into such from being children, are not REALLY gay - just 'perverted' straights.

A feral child raised in the wild by dogs/wolves (real cases) howl, walk on all fours and eat raw meat, but they remain HUMAN.