[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by wannashag

Not that terrible, he took over in 86 they finished 4th in 84/85 and 4th 85/86 won the FA cup in 85, had the England captain and best midfielder in the league in Bryan Robson, Mark Hughes was one of Europe's top strikers at the time, Paul Mcgrath one of the best defenders in the World, Norman Whiteside who was gonna be the next big thing, so they weren't that terrible.

Dont agree. Man U weren't the dominant force they are now. They hadnt won the league for over 20 years, they'd not won the champions league since the 60's, they lived in the shadow of Liverpool and the facilities were terrible for such a big club. Moyes has gone into a club where everything was stacked for him to succeed, which he hasn't.

[King Gizzard]

Originally Posted by wannashag

Paul Mcgrath one of the best defenders in the World

the best

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Nathan

the best

Baresi and Bergomi were better.

EDIT: Maldini was around at that time too.

[Brother Leon]

Sir Alex effectively took over what Liverpool are now. An ok team that hasn't won in a long time. Moyes has inherited the champions and his excuses are running out already. Champions to 7th is just embarrassing

[King Gizzard]

Well, he was never going to win anything this year realistically with the team he has, the championship last year was down to Fergie and RVP. It's just that this scale of bad form/general ****ness has gone way beyond that..they were probably expecting 3rd or 4th but along way off the top but not this....clinging on to 6th or 7th

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

Sir Alex effectively took over what Liverpool are now. An ok team that hasn't won in a long time. Moyes has inherited the champions and his excuses are running out already. Champions to 7th is just embarrassing

true.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

Sir Alex effectively took over what Liverpool are now. An ok team that hasn't won in a long time. Moyes has inherited the champions and his excuses are running out already. Champions to 7th is just embarrassing

I just think the difference is that today it's just media crazy and all about money, so the expectations are sky high and that's why you see ridiculous sackings after only months in a job.

[Ryan57]

Still not sacked.

I love the smell of desperation in the morning. Absolutely hilarious watching all the united fans pretending they knew it was going to be a difficult season, and they'd braced themselves for missing out on the CL, now start panicking when it looks as though they're definitely going to miss out.

All the high and mighty mocking of RAWK over the years, all the air of superiority about "we back the manager" bollocks. It just shows that football fans are all exactly the same - we all lose our ****.

I've had a little read of redcafe over the last 24 hours, and RAWK is looking pretty sane at the moment (and I say that as someone who thinks RAWK should be blown up).

I used to hate the way fergie bullied the FA, and if you look at the content of the "Rafa rant", he was exactly spot on with it, but journalists picked up on the rant, not the "fahcts".

More revelations from Dermot Gallagher over the weekend about how Fergie tried to get him to call a game off solely to make it easier for them to win the league one season.

Well Fergie staying at united now is the one thing keeping Moyes in place, and he's the reason I'm confident Moyes will get the chance to accelerate the decline next season.

Fahct!

[Ryan57]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

I love the smell of desperation in the morning. Absolutely hilarious watching all the united fans pretending they knew it was going to be a difficult season, and they'd braced themselves for missing out on the CL, now start panicking when it looks as though they're definitely going to miss out.

All the high and mighty mocking of RAWK over the years, all the air of superiority about "we back the manager" bollocks. It just shows that football fans are all exactly the same - we all lose our ****.

I've had a little read of redcafe over the last 24 hours, and RAWK is looking pretty sane at the moment (and I say that as someone who thinks RAWK should be blown up).

I used to hate the way fergie bullied the FA, and if you look at the content of the "Rafa rant", he was exactly spot on with it, but journalists picked up on the rant, not the "fahcts".

More revelations from Dermot Gallagher over the weekend about how Fergie tried to get him to call a game off solely to make it easier for them to win the league one season.

Well Fergie staying at united now is the one thing keeping Moyes in place, and he's the reason I'm confident Moyes will get the chance to accelerate the decline next season.

Fahct!

The whole 'we back our manager' is such idiocy. Hate that snobbish line. Times like that when it's no wonder United are hated. It makes no sense whatsoever. We had a one off in Fergie. No manager will ever last 26 years at a club again. He was basically unsackable. Prior to Fergie we did pull the plug on managers.

The only reason Moyes even still has a job is because Fergie is too stubborn and The Glazers appear happy to accept mediocrity.

Also, haven't personally seen the 'they knew it was going to be a difficult season, and they'd braced themselves for missing out on the CL'. Anyone who's said that is just an arse licker that won't say a bad word against anyone at the club. Every team has those fans, unfortunately.

Originally Posted by Ryan57

The whole 'we back our manager' is such idiocy. Hate that snobbish line. Times like that when it's no wonder United are hated. It makes no sense whatsoever. We had a one off in Fergie. No manager will ever last 26 years at a club again. He was basically unsackable. Prior to Fergie we did pull the plug on managers.

The only reason Moyes even still has a job is because Fergie is too stubborn and The Glazers appear happy to accept mediocrity.

Also, haven't personally seen the 'they knew it was going to be a difficult season, and they'd braced themselves for missing out on the CL'. Anyone who's said that is just an arse licker that won't say a bad word against anyone at the club. Every team has those fans, unfortunately.

Good to see you around again.

You may not have seen it personally, but most of the fans have been spewing out that line. It's even more absurd when you consider how spoilt you have to be to have success like that for 20 years, then start throwing the toys out of the pram after 7 months.

Arsenal fans have all stood by their manager in difficult times, Liverpool fans have stood by a selection of managers since we last won the league, city fans would have stood by Mancini, but united fans start crying.

My only surprise, and perhaps a little disappointment, is that the Norwich scarves haven't made an appearance yet.

United will be back within the next year or 2 (probably at our expense), but you can have a marketing department that generates more revenue than anyone else, but you can't generate class.

[MTVN]

Did Liverpool fans stand by Hodgson?

Originally Posted by MTVN

Did Liverpool fans stand by Hodgson?

No, but that was about politics at the time. Chris Purslow was running the club on behalf of Americans trying to hang on to us even though it would put us into administration.

He was brought in to replace a man that should never have been sacked, but who refused to stand by whilst everyone was trying to get their piece of the club.

The managerial appointment was about getting someone to not rock the boat as opposed to winning. Pellegrini was known to want the job at that time as well as did Dalglish, yet they chose Roy, who in his first press conference said he hoped his good friend Alex would forgive him from taking the job, who criticised supporters for marching to save their club, who played a load of youth team players against Northampton, then hung them out to dry after they lost, who then went on to call a 2-0 lifeless derby defeat "our best performance of the season"

He was a complete disaster from start to finish, and he was there to try and provide cover for a management structure that was at war with itself, banks and supporters.

Aren't Liverpool/Loserpool always classed as deluded for sticking by their managers for too long? Can't have it both ways.

If you want a fair comparison - use Souness, who took the champions of England and decimated them. Sold off the best players in the team and replaced them with dross. He then went on to do an interview with the Sun newspaper on the anniversary of Hillsborough about his new love, and he still got 3 years.

It wasn't Fergie that knocked Liverpool off their ******ing perch - he was there to pick up the pieces after Souness did the hard work.

[Ryan57]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

Good to see you around again.

You may not have seen it personally, but most of the fans have been spewing out that line. It's even more absurd when you consider how spoilt you have to be to have success like that for 20 years, then start throwing the toys out of the pram after 7 months.

Arsenal fans have all stood by their manager in difficult times, Liverpool fans have stood by a selection of managers since we last won the league, city fans would have stood by Mancini, but united fans start crying.

My only surprise, and perhaps a little disappointment, is that the Norwich scarves haven't made an appearance yet.

United will be back within the next year or 2 (probably at our expense), but you can have a marketing department that generates more revenue than anyone else, but you can't generate class.

I think us getting back in the top 4 all comes down to who our manager is. If Moyes remains manager then I expect more crap next season.

I am just desperate to be shot of him. I can take trophyless years, but not this atrocious style of football. With no improvements whatsoever as each week passes. There hasn't been a single positive, barring Januzaj, since he took charge.

What I don't get is how basically every rival fan was laughing at the appointment, and a large majority of United fans weren't looking forward to his tenure, yet Fergie and Charlton just couldn't see it. I wonder what Charlton thinks of Jose now. His reasons for not wanting Jose were awfully ironic.

And seeing Liverpool dismantle Arsenal just showed how far away we really are. That's the type of football we should be playing. Not 83 'effin crosses with no movement.

[GiRTh]

83 crosses? Wow. Every time I see that stat I'm amazed that Moyes thinks this is the style of football that will win trophy's.

As a manager I think he's too pragmatic. He'll make the best of what he's got but he wont ever bring double or trebles to any club. He's far too negative. I think Man UTd should be very worried if he's still there this time next year cuz I dont think things will improve.

[Ryan57]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

83 crosses? Wow. Every time I see that stat I'm amazed that Moyes thinks this is the style of football that will win trophy's.

As a manager I think he's too pragmatic. He'll make the best of what he's got but he wont ever bring double or trebles to any club. He's far too negative. I think Man UTd should be very worried if he's still there this time next year cuz I dont think things will improve.

Way to negative. 4-4-2 is totally outdated especially when you have a poor midfield like we do. His style of play is woeful. Sums it up when we sit bottom of the table in terms of teams that have played through the middle. Even 'effin Stoke go through the middle more.

There were so many, far more worthy, candidates that should of gotten the job ahead of him.

Without wishing to defend Moyes, maybe he looked at what he had (after the club failed to get him the CM he needed in the summer), and thought he needed to keep it away from central midfield as that's the weakest area of the team, and that's how you've ended up firing crosses in all day long.

It is baffling though, how anyone could sign a player like Mata and then stick him out on the wing.

[Ryan57]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

Without wishing to defend Moyes, maybe he looked at what he had (after the club failed to get him the CM he needed in the summer), and thought he needed to keep it away from central midfield as that's the weakest area of the team, and that's how you've ended up firing crosses in all day long.

It is baffling though, how anyone could sign a player like Mata and then stick him out on the wing.

Our wingers are entirely useless, though. They make our central midfield look like Bayern's.

About Mata, this is exactly why I didn't get excited. I saw numerous fans getting excited about the signing, but I just knew with Moyes in charge Mata will never be used properly. Kagawa et al.

On the plus side, playstation have released the new manchester united controller:

[Ryan57]

Saw that. Very good.

[Brother Leon]

When we United fans start blaming the fact we haven't won the league for 20 years due to fa conspiracies and "the man trying to keep our city down" then I will accept the comparison to Liverpool fans. Until then, we still got a lot more to go

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

When we United fans start blaming the fact we haven't won the league for 20 years due to fa conspiracies and "the man trying to keep our city down" then I will accept the comparison to Liverpool fans. Until then, we still got a lot more to go

Agreed. Unfortunately for you, no one has really blamed those things. Ever.

It's a good way to try and divert attention away though.

[GiRTh]

To follow on the subject of Moyes negativity. I doubt he ever goes into any game thinking he's gonna win easily. I criticize Wegner but he is the complete opposite. Wengers strength is getting his team to believe they can beat anyone and building them up to play better. Moyes seem to play everything down.

[Ryan57]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

To follow on the subject of Moyes negativity. I doubt he ever goes into any game thinking he's gonna win easily. I criticize Wegner but he is the complete opposite. Wengers strength is getting his team to believe they can beat anyone and building them up to play better. Moyes seem to play everything down.

Indeed. I've tried to back him, well I did some months ago, but he just makes it incredibly hard to do so. He instils zero confidence in fans so goodness knows what the players must think. Along with blaming everything barring his embarrassing tactics.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Ryan57

I think us getting back in the top 4 all comes down to who our manager is. If Moyes remains manager then I expect more crap next season.

That is just such crap

Your telling me that the likes of Vidic, Evra, Van Persie and others are putting in 100% for the club and are playing to their full potential every week? and the reason has nothing to do with the players, the reason is Moyes tactics?
The only person I saw yesterday that played like he wanted to win was Rooney.

If getting in the top 4 comes down to who the manager is, then Moyes took an Everton team into the top 4, so obviously he's a manager that fits your criteria.

Blaming the manager is the easy way out, taking the shortcut, cutting corners, turning a blind eye to the real problems.

In the words of Sir Alex Ferguson, "These players are cheating their manager"