[Mokka]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

re Sansa - Book Spoiler

Spoiler:

Yeah, that's a good question, you could definitely see her personality changing in the books but they've now massively changed her storyline in the TV Series by making her the one married to and abused by Ramsay. It'll be hard to see how Book Sansa and TV Series Sansa end up in the same place with the same personality when they've now had completely different experiences to eachother

Exactly... there are so many things where you wonder if Martin would do this or that.

I am such a book nerd,,, I wouldn't let my kids watch any of the Harry Potter movies or Lord of the Rings movies until they had read the books first... and I for the most part do the same, unless it is some cheesy book I would never read anyways

It was quite a crisis of character for me to depart from this to watch this season
I couldn't hold myself back once Smithy and Rose started making comments on this season in the lounge... lol... I have gone against my very nature to watch this season

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Mokkajava

Exactly... there are so many things where you wonder if Martin would do this or that.

I am such a book nerd,,, I wouldn't let my kids watch any of the Harry Potter movies or Lord of the Rings movies until they had read the books first... and I for the most part do the same, unless it is some cheesy book I would never read anyways

It was quite a crisis of character for me to depart from this to watch this season
I couldn't hold myself back once Smithy and Rose started making comments on this season in the lounge... lol... I have gone against my very nature to watch this season

I know it's too hard to resist and you just know you're going to get spoilers anyway so you may as well just watch them on TV as they're happening

[Locke.]

Also, on Bronn (ep6 spoiler)

Spoiler:

Looks like he's dead. We all know that Oberyn liked to put poison on his blades (see Gregor) and Bronn was cut in that fight near the end. I think most of us called him dying when we found out he was going to Dorne and with all the foreshadowing they gave it in Episode.... 3(?), but it's still a shame a great character has to go out in such a **** storyline

[Locke.]

This huge online breakdown over that final scene is a joke as well. Rape has been happening in the show since the very first episode, if people couldn't look past it then they should have turned off right there.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Locke.

This huge online breakdown over that final scene is a joke as well. Rape has been happening in the show since the very first episode, if people couldn't look past it then they should have turned off right there.

Yeah I thought the scene was gonna be worse going by some FB statuses I'd seen beforehand saying stuff like 'GoT will have lost a lot of viewers after tonight'. Was an ending that was fairly in keeping with Ramsey's character and a lot of the show so far

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by Mokkajava

I think the implication in that scene was that she ended up liking him in the end despite her longing to keep hating him. I don't think it was hinting anything else tbh.

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah that's what i thought too

But surely because she said hated (past tense) then at some point it was true, because there was a point where she did hate him so he shouldn't have hit her for lying because it was true, whereas if she'd have said I hate him it would be a lie bc she doesn't now

I think they're bringing him back idc, he's probs still alive in the books too so I think they'll do it here

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Smithy

But surely because she said hated (past tense) then at some point it was true, because there was a point where she did hate him so he shouldn't have hit her for lying because it was true, whereas if she'd have said I hate him it would be a lie bc she doesn't now

I think they're bringing him back idc, he's probs still alive in the books too so I think they'll do it here

No i do think he's still alive but she doesn't know that so she wouldn't have been lying. I think it was because she grew to like him and that was the lie

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Locke.

This huge online breakdown over that final scene is a joke as well. Rape has been happening in the show since the very first episode, if people couldn't look past it then they should have turned off right there.

The rape scenes have always served a purpose though, I think this one was unneeded and badly handled, it was just there to be a talking point and nothing more. We didn't learn anything new from the scene and it did nothing but potentially take Sansa's character to square one. Also why was Theon the focus in the scene? Why was he made out to be the victim in this scenario? The whole thing was just really badly done and redundant.

The episode would have been better without it.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The rape scenes have always served a purpose though, I think this one was unneeded and badly handled, it was just there to be a talking point and nothing more. We didn't learn anything new from the scene and it did nothing but potentially take Sansa's character to square one. Also why was Theon the focus in the scene? Why was he made out to be the victim in this scenario? The whole thing was just really badly done and redundant.

The episode would have been better without it.

It does serve a purpose though, especially for Theon

[MTVN]

Yeah I was gonna say that maybe Theon's presence there is why it served a purpose, I don't know really of course but it could prove a turning point in his relationship with both Ramsey and Sansa

[Mokka]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The rape scenes have always served a purpose though, I think this one was unneeded and badly handled, it was just there to be a talking point and nothing more. We didn't learn anything new from the scene and it did nothing but potentially take Sansa's character to square one. Also why was Theon the focus in the scene? Why was he made out to be the victim in this scenario? The whole thing was just really badly done and redundant.

The episode would have been better without it.

Not here to advocate for a rape scene, but it does show how her marriage started, how their marriage will be defined despite Ramsey saying he wouldn't hurt her, how she will view any further relationships after this, how she will become more subject to Littlefingers advances when he comes back... Because he will seem like evenore of a Savior next to this guy...

We all know that Sansa's marriage won't last so I would say it is going to be a defining piece of her choices going forward..,

But I do agree about Reek being made the victim... Not here for that

[Niamh.]

Also, Ramsay is a really nasty character, they need to show that, they toned it waaaaay down for the show

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It does serve a purpose though, especially for Theon

I disagree, we already knew he was broken and that they've been building up to a potential redemption arc for him. We didn't need a scene like that to solidify things that we already know.

The rape scene was only created because, so far, this series has been pedestrian and they wanted to create a big shocking moment.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Mokkajava

Not here to advocate for a rape scene, but it does show how her marriage started, how their marriage will be defined despite Ramsey saying he wouldn't hurt her, how she will view any further relationships after this, how she will become more subject to Littlefingers advances when he comes back... Because he will seem like evenore of a Savior next to this guy...

We all know that Sansa's marriage won't last so I would say it is going to be a defining piece of her choices going forward..,

But I do agree about Reek being made the victim... Not here for that

Book Spoiler :

Spoiler:

It was important for his choice to help Fake Arya escape though in the book and to actually go against Ramsay and break away from being Reek. Not to make him a victim but to show that he was that effected and horrified by what Ramsay had done to her that he'd face his biggest fear to try and save her (assuming they go a similar way in the TV series that they've done in the book with Fake Arya

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I disagree, we already knew he was broken and that they've been building up to a potential redemption arc for him. We didn't need a scene like that to solidify things that we already know.

The rape scene was only created because, so far, this series has been pedestrian and they wanted to create a big shocking moment.

It wasn't created though, it was in the book as well but in the book it was much much worse

[MTVN]

What happens in the book? (if it won't ruin any of the show that is)

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by MTVN

What happens in the book? (if it won't ruin any of the show that is)

Spoiler:

Well on the night of Ramsays wedding, he gets Theon to strip Fake Ayra (who has been replaced by Sansa in the TV show) and he gets him to give her oral sex before Ramsay then rapes her. It's pretty bad

[Niamh.]

These are some snippets from the book of the scene :

Spoiler:

Obviously it was Fake Arya in place of Sansa :

Ramsay smiled his wet smile. “Does she make your cock hard, Reek? Is it straining against your laces? Would you like to **** her first?” He laughed. “The Prince of Winterfell should have that right, as all lords did in days of old. The first night. But you’re no lord, are you? Only Reek. Not even a man, truth be told.”
—
Ramsay rose, the firelight shining on his face. “Reek, get over here. Get her ready for me.”
For a moment he did not understand. “I … do you mean … m’lord, I have no … I …”
“With your mouth,” Lord Ramsay said. “And be quick about it. If she’s not wet by the time I’m done disrobing, I will cut off that tongue of yours and nail it to the wall.”
—
Lord Ramsay wanted his wife clean. “She has no handmaids, poor thing,” he had said to Theon. “That leaves you, Reek. Should I put you in a dress?” He laughed. “Perhaps if you beg it of me.”

[Locke.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The rape scenes have always served a purpose though, I think this one was unneeded and badly handled, it was just there to be a talking point and nothing more. We didn't learn anything new from the scene and it did nothing but potentially take Sansa's character to square one. Also why was Theon the focus in the scene? Why was he made out to be the victim in this scenario? The whole thing was just really badly done and redundant.

The episode would have been better without it.

It does serve a purpose. It will be a huge development for both Theon and Sansa's characters. And regardless of that, all weddings in Westeros are followed by a bedding. Marriages can easily be annuled without them (which is why Sansa is able to go through with this wedding in the first place, because Tyrion was nice and didn't bed her at their own ceremony). The bedding had to happen, and does Ramsay really seem like the type that would be gentle? We've seen him flaying people alive for 3 years, chopping peoples dicks off, and generally being a detestable human.

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The rape scenes have always served a purpose though, I think this one was unneeded and badly handled, it was just there to be a talking point and nothing more. We didn't learn anything new from the scene and it did nothing but potentially take Sansa's character to square one. Also why was Theon the focus in the scene? Why was he made out to be the victim in this scenario? The whole thing was just really badly done and redundant.

The episode would have been better without it.

I disagree tbh, last season between Jamie and Cersei, they'd built Jamie up during season 3 and redeemed his character in a way after you find out the real reason he killed Aegon then he goes and does that, it served no purpose

I agree that it wasn't necessary though, we know the sort of person Ramsay is and what would have happened. I don't think we needed to be shown it, maybe just have had her covered in marks or something next episode

[Smithy]

Also will we ever see Gendry again? when did we last see him S3? or Yara when she was setting sail to save theon was that S3 or S4?

[Locke.]

It was towards the end of Season 3 I think, Stannis was going to execute Davos for it in the Season 3 finale until he brought up the idea of the Wall. They made him seem too important in the show I think, I didn't really get the vibe that he'd serve a big purpose in the books at all

Book spoiler

Spoiler:

Last time we saw him in the books he was with the Brotherhood wasn't he? So I guess if we ever see those in the show again he'll be with them

[Smithy]

Idr the books, I'm rereading atm

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Smithy

I disagree tbh, last season between Jamie and Cersei, they'd built Jamie up during season 3 and redeemed his character in a way after you find out the real reason he killed Aegon then he goes and does that, it served no purpose

I agree that it wasn't necessary though, we know the sort of person Ramsay is and what would have happened. I don't think we needed to be shown it, maybe just have had her covered in marks or something next episode

Apparently that scene wasn't actually meant to be a rape though, it was just badly shot and directed.

[Smithy]

it wasn't in the books, but i don't see how it can be interpreted as anything else from what they showed