FAQ |
Members List |
Calendar |
Search |
Today's Posts |
![]() |
|
General Chat General discussion. Want to chat about anything not covered in another forum - This is the place! |
Reply |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
![]() |
#1 | ||
|
|||
Senior Member
|
i found it so hypercritical that martin is condeming the current troubles as of his past and the party he was representing. how dare he < what a cheek ? i just think they are out of the picture now a days as they can not compete with the moslims as not only do they plant bombs but they send themself up with it lol
the joe is hopeing i dont get knee capped on way to work now lol martin mcguinness we are nearly in april, step forward the fool, martin mcguinness you are discredited, over my eyes you wont pull the wool. how dare you criticize, its so hypercritical, today's troubles are minor, i remember the i-r-a before you went all political. you may say you are not connected, just a representative carrying and reading there script, for years i watched you justify the terror, and that is now what's causing my conflict. it don't wash with me, peace and the i-r-a i don't trust, but in no way can you compete with al-qaeda, that's why your story has started to rust. |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 | ||
|
|||
User banned
|
Quote:
Good poem Joe! ![]() |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 | ||
|
|||
Banned
|
Nelson Mandela is now proclaimed the hero of his nation - a great pacifist and negotiator - but you should check up on his activities prior to his arrest and incarceration.
|
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 | |||
|
||||
Drink the Kool Aid
|
|
|||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 | |||
|
||||
Account Vacant
|
Interesting idea. Would you be putting Martin on a pedestal up there with Nelson?
|
|||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 | ||
|
|||
Banned
|
Because prior to his arrest Mandela was the leader of the ANC's armed wing , who went on a bombing campaign. They were also considering guerilla warfare if the sabotage didn't have the effect that they desired. He's indirectly responsible for the deaths of many individuals. Just think it's interesting to compare events in different areas sometimes. And it has absolutely nothing to with pedestals of any kind (oh, and it's fairly transparent what you're trying to insinuate there): just curious the way history is viewed or obscured at times.
Last edited by setanta; 08-03-2010 at 07:53 PM. |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 | |||
|
||||
I Love my brick
|
Quote:
__________________
![]() Spoiler: |
|||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 | |||
|
||||
Account Vacant
|
Quote:
Whilst in prison he often called for the ANC leadership to plan and execute operations which would result in minimal casualties. And condemned certain operations as being overly violent. Since the end of apartheid in South Africa and during the Truth and Reconciliation Commision. Mandela was never implicated in any actions which breached human rights, in fact he cristicised others for withholding information etc, including his own wife. Thats a lot different than Martin's history, with the Hegarty case, Enniskillen and a host of other operations he was linked with. Interesting to note he refused to accept the authority of the court that sentenced him in the 70's in the Republic of Ireland. Saying that Martin McGuinness has done a lot to bring peace to Northern Ireland negotiating on behalf of both the IRA and Sinn Fein since the 1980's in fact even before that. Without his efforts and risks I dare say there wouldnt be the situation there is there today. A young Martin McGuinness: http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/new...t=true&bbcws=2 Last edited by Shasown; 08-03-2010 at 08:11 PM. |
|||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#9 | ||
|
|||
Banned
|
Quote:
Last edited by setanta; 08-03-2010 at 09:35 PM. |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#10 | |||
|
||||
Account Vacant
|
Quote:
"What freedom am I being offered while the organisation of the people remains banned? Only free men can negotiate. A prisoner cannot enter into contracts" This was because at the time the ANC was outlawed, even if Mandela was free he was then subject to re arrest at any time for being the negotiator or representative of a banned organisation. So logically he couldnt represent anything. In other words the outlawing of the ANC had to be reversed before any member of the ANC could or would sit and negotiate. Incidentally referring back to the offer it was if they gave up the armed struggle, as I said Mandela didnt mind destroying parts of government, buildings etc, they were legitimate targets, but denounced the taking of life. Though this position was only taken up after the Sharpsville Massacre. Besides how many people did Mandela shoot?(his early life as Derry's top shot) Or authorise to be "interrogated" then topped?(Hegarty) Or authorise blown up (Enniskillen) Last edited by Shasown; 08-03-2010 at 10:08 PM. |
|||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#11 | ||
|
|||
Banned
|
Quote:
You really don't think Mandela has blood on his hands too? Of course he does. |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 | |||
|
||||
Senior Member
|
Hello Joe
Whenever I hear about IRA, I am still scared. They may act like peaceful politicians now but,,,,. Yes I still remember one of bomb was at Liverpool Street Staion. I was in City for 11 years during IRA was very active. Yesterday's Terrorist, todays heroes? |
|||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#13 | |||
|
||||
Account Vacant
|
Quote:
I would say that Mandela has next to no blood on his hands compared to McGuinness. |
|||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#14 | ||
|
|||
Banned
|
Quote:
Mandela has blood on his hands. He created, financed and directed that organization and it's silly to assume that he had no role to play in it's functioning while he was in prison. |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#15 | |||
|
||||
Account Vacant
|
Quote:
His mail inbound and outbound was not only censored, sometimes to the point of making it illegible, it was often held back from him or not posted for several weeks. Oh he could have also passed messages via his visitors? Yeah that would be right, visitors and mail were the same rate. One letter and one visitor every six months. He obviously couldnt run the organisation that way. He did however send messages to not only the ANC but the wider black and even white South African Community calling for a democratic society in which black and white would be equal with neither side ruling the other. Incidentally it wasnt until 2008 Mandela could legally go to Disneyland or Disneyworld on holiday. The US still had him as a listed terrorist until then and as such he had to be escorted from the airport to the UN and back, if he stayed in a hotel he had to be guarded and not allowed out without an escort. But that was because the ANC had been declared a terrorist organisation by the South African Government and the US State Department hadnt updated their status. Last edited by Shasown; 08-03-2010 at 11:47 PM. |
|||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#16 | ||
|
|||
Banned
|
Quote:
|
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#17 | |||
|
||||
Account Vacant
|
Quote:
He insisted during the Truth and Reconciliation Commision that people be open and honest and admonished several of his colleaugues for lying, making false statements about crimes, altering statements or withholding evidence. He divorced Winnie because of her militancy, shortly after he was released he separated fom her, divorcing her the legally required 4 years later. |
|||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#18 | ||
|
|||
Banned
|
Quote:
|
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#19 | |||
|
||||
Account Vacant
|
Quote:
McGuinness on the other hand was found guilty of being in possession of a very large amount of explosives and a few thousand rounds of ammunition in the Irish Republic. If Mandela had of been caught with that lot back in South Africa when he was arrested he would have been hung, no ifs or buts. And PIRA sent people to Libya and the Lebanon, they even trained alongside Hezbollah. The stickies sent people to Russia as well. At the time the USSR financed lots of organisations and offered lots of training to them too, in the hope they would spread the good word of communism. McGuinness was responsible for a lot of deaths, believe me. He is no folk hero. Now it is politically expedient to deal with him in the political arena. Although being a murderous Ba**ard, like Adams he had the sense to realise the way to acheive their aims either partially or in full was not through bomb and bullet but through the ballet box. Last edited by Shasown; 09-03-2010 at 01:12 AM. |
|||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#20 | ||
|
|||
Banned
|
Quote:
|
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#21 | |||
|
||||
Account Vacant
|
Quote:
If they had wanted to charge him with murder they would have, if he had been found guilty, which if they had anything at all on him he would have been, he would have been executed. End of a pain in the butt for the South African government. As for sanctioning the Church Street bombing, if thats what you were referring to, well we only have his word he did, plus if you accept his word on that you should by default also accept him saying it was this act that steered him away from violence. You cant have it both ways. |
|||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#22 | ||
|
|||
Banned
|
Quote:
Last edited by setanta; 09-03-2010 at 02:01 AM. |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#23 | |||
|
||||
Account Vacant
|
Quote:
Why weren't charges brought? Because they were both willing to reign in the more militant of their associates, if need be fatally, in order to get closer to their long term aims. |
|||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#24 | ||
|
|||
Banned
|
Quote:
Oh, and one more thing: Mandela openly admitted to signing off on the Church Street bombing in his autobiography. |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#25 | |||
|
||||
Account Vacant
|
Quote:
![]() |
|||
![]() |
![]() |
Reply |
|
|