[Shasown]

A drugs expert who quit the Government's advisory panel has told Sky News he is worried about the way mephedrone is being criminalised.

Eric Carlin said the decision to make mephedrone a class B drug went ahead before the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs (ACMD) had properly discussed the impact it would have on young people.

He said the way in which the Home Secretary told the media too soon was "entirely wrong" and "morally corrupt".


Read more http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20100402/...r-45dbed5.html

Another take on the story

New resignation over mephedrone ruling

Another member of the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs (ACMD) has resigned, adding another chapter to the beleaguered group's problematic relationship with government.

Eric Carlin, former chairman of the English Drug Education Forum, said he was disillusioned with the way the decision to ban mephedrone was taken due to media and political pressure.

In his resignation letter to home secretary Alan Johnson, Mr Carlin wrote: "We had little or no discussion about how our recommendation to classify this drug would be likely to impact on young people's behaviour.

Read More http://uk.news.yahoo.com/14/20100402...i-81c5b50.html

Isnt it great that scientists feel they cant sit on a scientific advisory committee because the current administration cant or wont let them do their jobs properly?

[Shaun]

It was treated with a ridiculous amount of hysteria.

[Ramsay]

yea people are going on as if its the new heroin

[Z]

I thought I'd bump this... I have three friends who are addicted to mephedrone, which from now on I'll refer to as MCAT because that's what everyone calls it around here. One of these friends is the first and only girl I've ever loved. Words can't describe how awful it is to see someone you once cared about, and I suppose I still do care for, change from a funny, beautiful girl into a gaunt looking addict. A drug addiction is so much more than just regularly getting buzzed out of your mind; it changes a person beyond recognition. Last weekend we had a reunion of most of our school friends. The girl couldn't even spend a night with her school friends without sneaking off to the toilet to do several lines of MCAT. I know she was doing it because we don't have a mirror in our bathroom yet, and she came through after doing it to speak to me and I noticed some of it on her nostril. I'd been suspicious of her for ages, but that pretty much confirmed it to me, and then I spoke to her best friend and she had been with her when she did it; confirming what I thought. How do you know you're an addict unless you try to stop? Well, a wake up call like that is one way, I suppose.

That brings me onto my second point. Nobody takes this stuff seriously. I mean, Karl's comment above mine is an example of it: it's just as addictive as heroin; and because it's been mainstream for so long and only become illegal recently, it's only now that we're seeing the bad side of MCAT. I know of kids as young as 14 who are dealing this drug. Fourteen years old!! Maybe I'm naive, but is fourteen years old and a drug dealer not just the saddest thing you've ever heard? I think there needs to be some serious attitude changes towards MCAT; it's not just some fun party drug that people do for fun - it's addictive and it's spread, innocently, far and wide. The second of these three people has lost all of her school friends bar me. That's because 1) I'm hoping that she's going to wise up soon, and 2) I live in another city for University, so I haven't seen the gradual change, I just see her at a new phase every couple of months. I haven't hung out with her once this year without her doing MCAT. All of her friends, and now her new boyfriend, are relationships built on MCAT. She's not even the same person anymore. She's lost weight, a lot of weight, and she was already thin to begin with. Her personality is different. She's driven me places whilst on MCAT, and I was stupid enough to let her. Would you let someone drink drive you across town? No, you wouldn't, because of the scare-mongering that the government has forced upon us: but it works. This was back when I saw MCAT as a light hearted, trivial thing; but my attitude has changed so much. I know of a guy who lost the ability to walk one night because he'd taken so much MCAT. And he still does it.

The third friend is a dealer. He has a reputation that has spread so rapidly that when people find out what school I went to, they ask if I know him and the conversation inevitably leads to talking about MCAT. He's still my friend, he's one of the nicest guys I know and I'd never turn my back on him - but I no longer trust him, and I'm scared to be around him; because he's a dangerous person to know. He uses his own merchandise. His skin is terrible now because he's taken so much MCAT; he looks gaunt and really ill all the time, but he can't stop taking it and he won't stop dealing it so long as people are treating it as a trivial thing. It actually upsets me that I'm in a minority of people who are against MCAT. I know people who have had to ditch their friends from Uni entirely because they didn't do MCAT and were constantly being pressurised to do it, or were told to get lost because they refused to do it. Since when was not doing drugs a valid reason to cut someone loose as a friend?

There is no argument for the drug that I can think of, just arguments about whether or not it should be illegal/be a class B drug. Sure, you can argue that it in itself is (so far, at least) harmless; but I hope that, maybe even by reading my experiences with it, attitudes towards it will change in time. I think I'll always remember 2010 as the year of MCAT.

[Jessica.]

I know some people who have ruined their own and their families lives because of taking/dealing drugs, it isn't good at all. I definitely think mephedrone should be made illegal in Ireland before it starts becoming popular, it is just another drug to add to the many that are ruining lives.

[arista]

"It was treated with a ridiculous amount of hysteria. "


Yes it was
and now that Illegal Drug costs so much more.



Get Down and Get Funky
Watch Out for Them Junkies.

[Stu]

Zee, to say Mephedrone is as addictive as Heroin is utterly slanderous and without base. It's not. It's the governments telling of white lies, just as you have done, that makes people so wary of substance legislation.

I know six alcoholics. That's twice the amount of Mephedrone addicts you know. So under the logic of 'my best mates brothers dog', should we ban alcohol? No, because that would be silly.

What people don't realise about Meph is that while it is a dangerous drug, it's danger increases vastly with illegality. There is no room for debate on that issue. It's very black and white.

The government missed the one chance they had to stick a finger in the recreational drugs mark it and regulate it to make it safer. Now do you know what will happen? None of your drug addict buddies will be buying pure, clean Mephedrone from stores. They will buy it at twice the price mixed with rat poison, funding someones burgeoning new Uzi collection.

Originally Posted by Zee

It actually upsets me that I'm in a minority of people who are against MCAT. I know people who have had to ditch their friends from Uni entirely because they didn't do MCAT and were constantly being pressurised to do it, or were told to get lost because they refused to do it. Since when was not doing drugs a valid reason to cut someone loose as a friend?

That's not Mephedrone, that's you happening to know a lot of idiots. One thing I have learned is that people generally tend to be reactionary, emotional idiots who jump into situations without knowing what they are doing. Look at the government.

And what else happens when you ban Mephedrone? We are already starting to see replacement research chemicals like naphyrone and MDAI. More untested, more dangerous drugs! Wahey! Aint we the smart race?

We have yet to have a confirmed UK or Ireland death as a direct result of Mephedrone intoxication and we are banning it. Is there not something that strikes you as completely over the hills insane about that? That we are turning down the chance to make something safer in favour of making more people criminals?

That's what we want, isin't it? An oversurplus of criminals? Screw responsible drug use.

Fuck this planet.

[arista]

"**** this planet. "


Yes Get it Outta your System
Spunky Stu.


Life In The Fast Lane.

[setanta]

It's like an episode of The Wire at this stage for feck sake. But Stu it's more f£ck the machine rather than the planet.

[BB_Eye]

Originally Posted by Shaun

It was treated with a ridiculous amount of hysteria.

I agree... another case of our pathetic invertibrate government caving in to media pressure.

[Z]

Originally Posted by Stu

Zee, to say Mephedrone is as addictive as Heroin is utterly slanderous and without base. It's not. It's the governments telling of white lies, just as you have done, that makes people so wary of substance legislation.

I know six alcoholics. That's twice the amount of Mephedrone addicts you know. So under the logic of 'my best mates brothers dog', should we ban alcohol? No, because that would be silly.

What people don't realise about Meph is that while it is a dangerous drug, it's danger increases vastly with illegality. There is no room for debate on that issue. It's very black and white.

The government missed the one chance they had to stick a finger in the recreational drugs mark it and regulate it to make it safer. Now do you know what will happen? None of your drug addict buddies will be buying pure, clean Mephedrone from stores. They will buy it at twice the price mixed with rat poison, funding someones burgeoning new Uzi collection.


That's not Mephedrone, that's you happening to know a lot of idiots. One thing I have learned is that people generally tend to be reactionary, emotional idiots who jump into situations without knowing what they are doing. Look at the government.

And what else happens when you ban Mephedrone? We are already starting to see replacement research chemicals like naphyrone and MDAI. More untested, more dangerous drugs! Wahey! Aint we the smart race?

We have yet to have a confirmed UK or Ireland death as a direct result of Mephedrone intoxication and we are banning it. Is there not something that strikes you as completely over the hills insane about that? That we are turning down the chance to make something safer in favour of making more people criminals?

That's what we want, isin't it? An oversurplus of criminals? Screw responsible drug use.

Fuck this planet.

I'm gonna have to shoot you down on your first point Stu; how is me saying that slanderous or without base? I just gave you plenty of examples of people I know well; I'm certainly not making it up. It's hard to really pass qualified judgement on the long lasting side effects, IMO, because it's not been around in the mainstream long enough yet; whereas with the likes of heroin, cocaine and the gang, the effects are well documented and it's therefore easier or more difficult, depending on the drug, to argue the case for/against it being illegal. I've paid no attention to what the government has to say about mephedrone, I'm giving my honest opinions through personal experience.

I'm not going to address your second point, because I think it's redundant to argue it; my beef isn't with the legality/illegality of mephedrone, it's with the attitudes of people towards it. I absolutely agree with your third point, and you're right, there is nothing to argue there - but I also feel that, because of the validity of that point, it could lend support to my point about MCAT being highly addictive - time will tell, I suppose, we just don't know yet. I'm fully aware of what will happen now that it's illegal; hence my apprehension and worry for my friends. I'm worried that those two girls are going to end up selling themselves or stealing to get a hit of something lethal.

People being forced out of groups of friends because they don't take drugs, to me, is a big deal. If I was in that situation, I think I'd jump before I was pushed, but that's just an example of how far this stuff has spread. I didn't even know any weed users last year in my day to day life; but I know plenty of MCAT users. I'm not too sure what to make of that, but I think it's a sign that something is seriously wrong with the assumption that it's 'not that bad' as far as drugs go.

Does it really take something as drastic as a death to warrant outlawing something? I'm not sure if it's double standards on my behalf because I feel the effects of MCAT in my life more than most other "jumping the gun" kind of issues; but I really do feel it was for the best to ban MCAT. On the other hand, I would have said banning something else without a proper reason was a step too far. Is that double standards? Maybe it is, but then I suppose it's true that something's never quite so serious until it affects you.

That's the thing though Stu - if they regulated it, it would have been smart, it would have made it safe and educated for people who chose to do it - but the people I know that do it aren't sensible people, they're doing this stuff for fun and are, only now, beginning to realise that the party ended a long time ago. People my age from my home city and the one I'm living in just now are doing this stuff so regularly that it's the norm to admit you do it - I'd be stunned to hear of someone admitting they regularly do cocaine in normal conversation with people they barely know.

In a sort of conclusion, I think we can all agree that now that it's been made illegal, it's going to get worse. At least when it was still legal, regular users weren't snorting things that have been "scientifically proven" (the Government seem to love that, don't they? ) to be harmful. The whole MCAT debacle truly depresses me, I just wish it would disappear.

[Z]

I think that article is referring to the two guys that died somewhere in Hull I think it was; after they'd been on a massive bender of booze and I think methadone, as well as mephedrone - it in itself hasn't killed anyone so far, I don't think.

[Z]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Fair enough!

Stupidity killed them. However, I still think it was the right decision to ban it, it's spread far and wide across Scotland and apparently England too; there definitely needs to be some education given to people about what exactly they're buying into!

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Zee

I'm gonna have to shoot you down on your first point Stu; how is me saying that slanderous or without base? I just gave you plenty of examples of people I know well; I'm certainly not making it up. It's hard to really pass qualified judgement on the long lasting side effects, IMO, because it's not been around in the mainstream long enough yet; whereas with the likes of heroin, cocaine and the gang, the effects are well documented and it's therefore easier or more difficult, depending on the drug, to argue the case for/against it being illegal. I've paid no attention to what the government has to say about mephedrone, I'm giving my honest opinions through personal experience.

I'm not going to address your second point, because I think it's redundant to argue it; my beef isn't with the legality/illegality of mephedrone, it's with the attitudes of people towards it. I absolutely agree with your third point, and you're right, there is nothing to argue there - but I also feel that, because of the validity of that point, it could lend support to my point about MCAT being highly addictive - time will tell, I suppose, we just don't know yet. I'm fully aware of what will happen now that it's illegal; hence my apprehension and worry for my friends. I'm worried that those two girls are going to end up selling themselves or stealing to get a hit of something lethal.

People being forced out of groups of friends because they don't take drugs, to me, is a big deal. If I was in that situation, I think I'd jump before I was pushed, but that's just an example of how far this stuff has spread. I didn't even know any weed users last year in my day to day life; but I know plenty of MCAT users. I'm not too sure what to make of that, but I think it's a sign that something is seriously wrong with the assumption that it's 'not that bad' as far as drugs go.

Does it really take something as drastic as a death to warrant outlawing something? I'm not sure if it's double standards on my behalf because I feel the effects of MCAT in my life more than most other "jumping the gun" kind of issues; but I really do feel it was for the best to ban MCAT. On the other hand, I would have said banning something else without a proper reason was a step too far. Is that double standards? Maybe it is, but then I suppose it's true that something's never quite so serious until it affects you.

That's the thing though Stu - if they regulated it, it would have been smart, it would have made it safe and educated for people who chose to do it - but the people I know that do it aren't sensible people, they're doing this stuff for fun and are, only now, beginning to realise that the party ended a long time ago. People my age from my home city and the one I'm living in just now are doing this stuff so regularly that it's the norm to admit you do it - I'd be stunned to hear of someone admitting they regularly do cocaine in normal conversation with people they barely know.

In a sort of conclusion, I think we can all agree that now that it's been made illegal, it's going to get worse. At least when it was still legal, regular users weren't snorting things that have been "scientifically proven" (the Government seem to love that, don't they? ) to be harmful. The whole MCAT debacle truly depresses me, I just wish it would disappear.

Mephedrone is not as addictive as Heroin. It's a fact, Zee. Personal experience counts for nothing. Does the fact that I know more Alcoholics than junkies make Alcohol a more addictive substance?

I agree a lot of stupid people do drugs. It's a shame the government feels the need to criminalize the smart people as a result of this. A lot of cunts drink, too.

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

I was interested to read your honest account of your own personal experiences! It must be devastating seeing that happen to your friends. I don't know a great deal about recreational drugs - but I do know something about drugs and their effects in general - and am of the opinion there is no such thing as a safe drug - and it is sad that so many youngsters don't seem to understand how dangerous such drugs are!

I don't see the relevance of whether or not it is as dangerous or addictive as Heroin - it is still a very dangerous drug - and for people to see taking it as no big deal is just pure stupidity! As far as I am concerned - there is no fool like a YOUNG, NAIVE fool - and as such the young only hear what they want to hear!

I agree it is sad that some feel it should take a death for a drug to be made illegal - I believe in preventative measures! I don't think comparing such drugs with alcohol is very productive either - just because alcohol is legal - doesn't mean drugs should be too - especially drugs such as this!

I dare say many on this site will disagree - it just seems such a shame to me that for some - learning lessons the hard way - is the only way! Madness!!

Comparisons are entirely valid, WOMBAI, as Alcohol is a drug and the illegal effects of certain drugs have far more lethal concequences than the substances themselves. This has been proven time and time and time again and it is something most of the governments scientific experts are in agreement with. prohibition does not work. The war on drugs has been a massive faliure. Mephedrone is safer legal.

I hate how you are trying to vilify it without a scrap of knowledge on your side. You insist people are stupid for seeing it as no big deal but if someone is capable of taking is responsibly like millions do with Alcohol then why should it be a big deal?

[nkane25]

knee jerk reaction as usual!













www.wonderlandroad.co.uk

[Stu]

Originally Posted by nkane25

knee jerk reaction as usual!













www.wonderlandroad.co.uk

Pish off, spammer. Does it fill some hole in your heart to advertise sites that sell research chemicals to a forum filled mostly with young teens?

[Tom]

I think they should have left it legal for now. They need to come up with some form of blanket ban- until then its just going to happen time and time again.

[arista]

Originally Posted by nkane25

knee jerk reaction as usual!

Maybe,
but it's Law.



Sign Of The Times.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Zee

I think that article is referring to the two guys that died somewhere in Hull I think it was; after they'd been on a massive bender of booze and I think methadone, as well as mephedrone - it in itself hasn't killed anyone so far, I don't think.

I was in the same club as them when that happened. Was not good :X

[cupid stunt]

the government banned it because then the M15 AND CID CAN SELL IT , THEY DO THE SAME IN AMERICA, NOW ITS GONA COST TWICE AS MUCH AND BE CUT WITH ALL KINDS OF DANGEROUS ****. WELL DONE GORDON BROWN YOU ****ING PRICK. VOTE LIB DEM AND WE CAN HAVE WEED CAFES LIKE AMSTERDAM