[newspresenter]

Or did channel 4 edit that talk out because channel 4 no nowt about football.

Had the officials given the obvious goal, it would've been 2-2, Germany then wouldn't have broke away catching us off-guard, thus we wouldn't have looked crap, thicko HM's.

[starry]

They did alot of sound dips at that point, probably alot of swearing.

[Maia]

I saw them mentioning it on LF yesterday saying it was "blatantly in" and stuff. They haven't actually shown much today.

[pixee]

So if it was 2-2 you are sure, SURE mind you, that Germany wouldn't have scored?

Because we had the imperious Upson at the back? lol

I don't think they had sound and probably realised, unlike you, that we played **** and deserved to go out.

[Alpertinator]

Yeah that was terrible. It's not just that England were ruined because of awful work by the officials. It's very much about the principle. The world cup is the biggest football tournament in the world and that should not happen at the world cup. Absolutely dreadful, terrible, the linesman was not in line with the goal either, what did he find a shiny coin on the ground by the side of the pitch or somethin'? Honestly it's like somethin' distracted him (Peter Griffin-esque) and he just screwed up his job. He ought be dissallowed to be a linesman in major games anymore to be honest, that should just no be allowed to happen and it's a complete disgrace.

But even so I'm with Pixee, England (like two other supposedly titanic sides Italy and France) played terrible in the world cup. England are top 10 ranked, but they shouldn't be. It's a squad made up of fantastic club players but they don't bond like other international sides do (Brasilia). England are very over-rated and they played terrible in this tournament.

[pixee]

Originally Posted by Alpertinator

Yeah that was terrible. It's not just that England were ruined because of awful work by the officials. It's very much about the principle. The world cup is the biggest football tournament in the world and that should not happen at the world cup. Absolutely dreadful, terrible, the linesman was not in line with the goal either, what did he find a shiny coin on the ground by the side of the pitch or somethin'? Honestly it's like somethin' distracted him (Peter Griffin-esque) and he just screwed up his job. He ought be dissallowed to be a linesman in major games anymore to be honest, that should just no be allowed to happen and it's a complete disgrace.

But even so I'm with Pixee, England (like two other supposedly titanic sides Italy and France) played terrible in the world cup. England are top 10 ranked, but they shouldn't be. It's a squad made up of fantastic club players but they don't bond like other international sides do (Brasilia). England are very over-rated and they played terrible in this tournament.

2nd part agreed. Not every league has sky advertising money and hype behind it, hence 100 grand a week no shows who can't pass and move as well has algerian players.

And Italy and France had same problem as us, instead of clearing out elderly players and moving on, rebuilding they stick with them and they think they're un dropable.

[newspresenter]

Originally Posted by pixee

So if it was 2-2 you are sure, SURE mind you, that Germany wouldn't have scored?

Because we had the imperious Upson at the back? lol

I don't think they had sound and probably realised, unlike you, that we played **** and deserved to go out.

If you knew anything about the game, you'd know that when you're 2-0 up as germany were, and then you lose that lead, England then in this case would've been on the front foot (favourites, as they were before the game), germany would've been in shock mode. Football isn't just about ability.

Upson scored, and did you notice their young keeper, absolutely flapping. We were crap up until we scored, but you miss the point, had it gone 2-2, England would've been in pole-position. We didn't deserve to go out because the officials cost us a 2-2 score-line, England were wrong-done.

Man for man, England are more superior, we have several world class players, more than germany.

[newspresenter]

Originally Posted by Alpertinator

But even so I'm with Pixee, England (like two other supposedly titanic sides Italy and France) played terrible in the world cup. England are top 10 ranked, but they shouldn't be. It's a squad made up of fantastic club players but they don't bond like other international sides do (Brasilia). England are very over-rated and they played terrible in this tournament.

Its Fabio's fault, he played Gerrard on the left wing, its an absolute nonsense to do that.
He also didn't give the squad a good enough rest pre-tournament like the other countries had.
He also played heskey above Defoe originally and Crouch, absolute nonsense.
His formation tactics were shocking.

What we do need however, is more English people playing in the premiership.

[bbfan1991]

I'm gutted C4 stopped their footie shows a while back.

[newspresenter]

Originally Posted by pixee

2nd part agreed. Not every league has sky advertising money and hype behind it, hence 100 grand a week no shows who can't pass and move as well has algerian players.

And Italy and France had same problem as us, instead of clearing out elderly players and moving on, rebuilding they stick with them and they think they're un dropable.

Neither the French nor the Italian leagues are particuly rich financially, twas only pre-last world cup Juventus went into financial meltdown.

[pixee]

Originally Posted by newspresenter

If you knew anything about the game, you'd know that when you're 2-0 up as germany were, and then you lose that lead, England then in this case would've been on the front foot (favourites, as they were before the game), germany would've been in shock mode. Football isn't just about ability.

Upson scored, and did you notice their young keeper, absolutely flapping. We were crap up until we scored, but you miss the point, had it gone 2-2, England would've been in pole-position. We didn't deserve to go out because the officials cost us a 2-2 score-line, England were wrong-done.

Man for man, England are more superior, we have several world class players, more than germany.

I know plenty about football thank you and enough to know that there are two teams that play a football match and you seem to think Germany would just give in, concede, not attack and we win. Simple isn't it.

Germany also have world class players. And if you are going to assume that we would have strolled through had we got that goal then i'm going to assume Argentina would have pasted us to the ****ing wall on Saturday had we gone through.

[pixee]

Originally Posted by newspresenter

Neither the French nor the Italian leagues are particuly rich financially, twas only pre-last world cup Juventus went into financial meltdown.

I didn't say they were... i said they had same problems as us with a team that needed rebuilding.

My point about financial clout of premier league was in reference to the assumpetion that our players/team is better than everyone elses.

[newspresenter]

Originally Posted by pixee

I know plenty about football thank you and enough to know that there are two teams that play a football match and you seem to think Germany would just give in, concede, not attack and we win. Simple isn't it.

Germany also have world class players.

I don't think that atall, i think England would've been favourites to win at 2-2.

They don't have the same amount of world class players as England have.
Terry, A Cole, Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney, also, Johnson is very good, Crouch, Lennon just qualified for Champions league. Barry plays for Man City, they finished 5th. Carragher has won the European cup. James won fa cup.

We have ample ability in the squad, it was simply about organising them enough.

Germany have, Klose, Podolski, Mertersacker, Ozeil, Sweinsteiger, Lahm, all decent, all world class? Lahm definately, Oezil looks it, Sweinsteiger, thats it.

[newspresenter]

Originally Posted by pixee

I didn't say they were... i said they had same problems as us with a team that needed rebuilding.

My point about financial clout of premier league was in reference to the assumpetion that our players/team is better than everyone elses.

Who made the assumption that our players are better than everyone else?

[Alpertinator]

I'm with you on Capello news. Yeah like Jamie Carragher says he does have a great resume, but at the same time his resume consists of work with practically exclusively Italian clubs (AC Milan, Inter, Roma), and I think he managed Real Madrid as well.

England was his first international job. He can barely speak English. I think Capello has the potential to be a great coach of the Italian side, I don't understand why he's managing England. He could be a great manager for Italy. Look at how good a job Diego Maradona has done with Argentina. It's great for an international side to be managed by one of their own basically.

Anyway yeah Capello had a tendency to be too rigid I'll say. He seemed stuck to 4 4 2. Here's my preferred lineup for the world cup:-

GK - D. James

RB - G. Johnson
CB - J. Carragher
CB - J. Terry
LB - A. Cole

CDM - G. Barry

RW - J. Milner
CM - F. Lampard
CM - S. Gerrard
LW - J. Cole

CF - W. Rooney

Alternatively you could make Lampard sort of a Right attacking midfielder, but not far on the right, allow Glen Johnson to come forward more, put Milner on the left wing and take Joe Cole off and bring on Defoe in a right forward position.

Complex formations can be very effective. Formations should be more flexible than 442.

Either way, England is not one of the greatest of the great international football sides. I even think maybe the likes of Uruguay and USA may be better than England at the moment, Netherlands as well.

Oh and sorry for all the football talk by the way I know it's not a football forum haha

[rusticgal]

They did on LF... they were as gutted as the rest of the country.That goal could have changed the game....it was a crucial goal.If they had been 3-1 down at the time then thats a different story...but that goal could have changed the result because the attitude and self esteem would have been different.
All said and done England were rubbish throughout this tournament and the Germans deserved to win.... but I love Football and I love the hype and excitement the world cup brings.... and now its gone!! I am gutted.

[pixee]

Originally Posted by newspresenter

I don't think that atall, i think England would've been favourites to win at 2-2.

They don't have the same amount of world class players as England have.
Terry, A Cole, Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney, also, Johnson is very good, Crouch, Lennon just qualified for Champions league. Barry plays for Man City, they finished 5th. Carragher has won the European cup. James won fa cup.

We have ample ability in the squad, it was simply about organising them enough.

Germany have, Klose, Podolski, Mertersacker, Ozeil, Sweinsteiger, Lahm, all decent, all world class? Lahm definately, Oezil looks it, Sweinsteiger, thats it.

Johnson can't defend. Barry is not a holding midfielder and quite frankly not a good footballer. Carragher is slow and out of form, along with Terry.

I think you are forgetting who these players play with. i.e very good foreign players and in some cases real world class players. Depends how far you want to go with the term world class, if Rooney doesn't perform at world cup is he world class? or does world class mean impressing in the premier league (incidently i do think he is one of the few we have).

I would just say, just because you haven't seen a player doesn't mean he isn't as good as a player you have. Yes lennon and crouch got into champions league, crouch has struggled to get in tottenham team and lennon was injured for half of the season.

And my apoligies i thought you were saying England were a great team.

[newspresenter]

With not have 2 proper wingers, i'd have plumped for wing backs, johnson and cole could play that role very well.

-------carragher--terry--upson
johnson------------------------cole
-------milner--lampard--barry
------------gerrard
----------------------rooney

[pixee]

Originally Posted by Alpertinator

I'm with you on Capello news. Yeah like Jamie Carragher says he does have a great resume, but at the same time his resume consists of work with practically exclusively Italian clubs (AC Milan, Inter, Roma), and I think he managed Real Madrid as well.

England was his first international job. He can barely speak English. I think Capello has the potential to be a great coach of the Italian side, I don't understand why he's managing England. He could be a great manager for Italy. Look at how good a job Diego Maradona has done with Argentina. It's great for an international side to be managed by one of their own basically.

Anyway yeah Capello had a tendency to be too rigid I'll say. He seemed stuck to 4 4 2. Here's my preferred lineup for the world cup:-

GK - D. James

RB - G. Johnson
CB - J. Carragher
CB - J. Terry
LB - A. Cole

CDM - G. Barry

RW - J. Milner
CM - F. Lampard
CM - S. Gerrard
LW - J. Cole

CF - W. Rooney

Alternatively you could make Lampard sort of a Right attacking midfielder, but not far on the right, allow Glen Johnson to come forward more, put Milner on the left wing and take Joe Cole off and bring on Defoe in a right forward position.

Complex formations can be very effective. Formations should be more flexible than 442.

Either way, England is not one of the greatest of the great international football sides. I even think maybe the likes of Uruguay and USA may be better than England at the moment, Netherlands as well.

Oh and sorry for all the football talk by the way I know it's not a football forum haha

He isn't made for international management or certainly england team management.

His second spell at real madrid was essentially a hold the fort and clear out job. He is a cautious coach hence why madrid got him in, do some dirty work stabalise then move him on. So he isn't really built for tournament football and as we are seeing on this thread with the dellusions england fans have about our players he would get slated if he attempted any major surgery on the england team.

Great club manager, not an international manager although i do like him and formations are overrated it is mentality and freedom or restriction of that creates good football. You think those players get played in a 4-4-2 and go "oh god my touch i can't run where is the ball oh god" they didn't perform, although performance could be limited by playing out of position but not to that extent.

[Alpertinator]

I think Germany are definatlely a better side than England. I'm sure the bloody media scandals rife in the England squad didn't help a bit. England as a country, in terms of football, doesn't seem to be one of the countries that just gets on with it. Just play the damn game, with heart and soul (like the Brazilians who I respect a lot).

Oh yeah I agree with what you said in the last paragraph there Pixee yeah. Obviously it's about how the players play on the day, and yeah a lot of it comes down to mentality very mush so and yeah freedom to play how they feel best and to move how they feel best is important. There are many factors to consider with something like this, people could write a huge report on the damn thing.

[pixee]

Originally Posted by Alpertinator

I think Germany are definatlely a better side than England. I'm sure the bloody media scandals rife in the England squad didn't help a bit. England as a country, in terms of football, doesn't seem to be one of the countries that just gets on with it. Just play the damn game, with heart and soul (like the Brazilians who I respect a lot).

Oh yeah I agree with what you said in the last paragraph there Pixee yeah. Obviously it's about how the players play on the day, and yeah a lot of it comes down to mentality very mush so and yeah freedom to play how they feel best and to move how they feel best is important. There are many factors to consider with something like this, people could write a huge report on the damn thing.

Lol i practically have wrote a report.

Yeah your first para i agree totally. But that is partly my point about the goal, it's happened move on what do we do now how do we fix it (should have been attitude on the day from staff and post world cup by media et al)

[LiquidGold]

Originally Posted by newspresenter

Or did channel 4 edit that talk out because channel 4 no nowt about football.

Had the officials given the obvious goal, it would've been 2-2, Germany then wouldn't have broke away catching us off-guard, thus we wouldn't have looked crap, thicko HM's.

we hardly saw anything plus it was done weird cause we didnt even hear the tv or see the tv screen i bet that'll be called "copyright " crap . it was soo edited clearly

[headaball]

Because it wasn't a goal.

[Alpertinator]

Haha that image is really funny.

[supergirthuk]

We were so second best, disallowed goal and all. Get over it and forget about it and move on. The manager needs binning and they need to accept that the current crop of players have blown it. New manager needs to concentrate on youth and try and build up a team and ignore the likes of Terry who never go over losing the captaincy and has been nothing but a spoiler since that point. All four goals came about cos he was out of position and didnt get back, or couldnt be bothered getting back.