[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Exactly

Or what if some brit went over there to live, and named their teddy bear mohammed Such a terrible crime, probably death penalty for it

Such tolerance

The main issue is the unfairness of it all, and how they would expect respect to be shown in their countries(which is fair enough) but don't feel they owe other countries the same courtesy.

[Vicky.]

Thats the thing, you move to another country and you adapt to their way of life. Even on holiday you do. I mean, a few years ago I went to tunisia...and obviously in the tourist areas they are used to seeing people in shorts and that, but it IS classed as disrespectful for women to 'flaunt themselves' by daring to expose legs or cleavage. When we went to the markets and that, I would make sure I was dressed respectfully, regardless of the weather, I nearly passed out at one point, but its what you do...why upset people just for the sake of it...

I realize a lot of these people are born here, but surely those would have adapted already, being brought up here :/

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Thats the thing, you move to another country and you adapt to their way of life. Even on holiday you do. I mean, a few years ago I went to tunisia...and obviously in the tourist areas they are used to seeing people in shorts and that, but it IS classed as disrespectful for women to 'flaunt themselves' by daring to expose legs or cleavage. When we went to the markets and that, I would make sure I was dressed respectfully, regardless of the weather, I nearly passed out at one point, but its what you do...why upset people just for the sake of it...

I realize a lot of these people are born here, but surely those would have adapted already, being brought up here :/

Yes exactly, when in Rome and all that. If you don't like the countries ways then it's pretty simple really...............go home! Funny though these people I'm sure adapted quickly enough to all the good things that benefited them!!

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

Yes exactly, when in Rome and all that. If you don't like the countries ways then it's pretty simple really...............go home! Funny though these people I'm sure adapted quickly enough to all the good things that benefited them!!

Nice choice of words there

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Nice choice of words there

Unintentional I promise!!

[parmnion]

Sooooooooo...silly wee disrespectful laddies who urinate on war memorials are jailed for 6 months, which they should be.

Yet muslim fanatics are allowed to burn giant poppy's on remembrance day as they shout British troop burn in hell while the cops look on.

PRETTY SCARY TO THINK WHAT BRITAIN'S GOING TO BE LIKE IN 15 YRS TIME.

[Shasown]

Ah well

Two Islamic protesters, aged 30 and 25, were arrested for public order offences after the poppies were set alight and protesters chanted "British soldiers burn in hell" during the two-minute silence.......

The spokesman added that the two members of Muslims Against Crusades had been bailed until mid-December pending further inquiries.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20101112...t-6323e80.html

No further action there then, charges discretely dropped in a couple of weeks.

[Niall]

Originally Posted by angus58

That's a rather naive response to a clearly documented, factual event, yet you choose to diminish its impact and importance - no wonder this country is in the ****! Give these fanatics an inch, and they take a mile. We are always hearing about how muslims are "offended" by our culture, our way of life, our traditions etc, and we bend over backwards to avoid offence. Yet these disrespectful, ignorant people think its fine to disrupt remembrance day to make political brownie points. So your argument that "the media is just blowing everything out of proportion" doesn't fly - it happened, it was obscene, obnoxious and inflammatory - there was no excuse for it and no place in our society for hate filled mobs, of any religion, political persuasion or ethnicity, inciting violence against anyone.

If Muslims don't want to all be tarred with the same brush, it's about time that they were more proactive and vocal about condemning these people, otherwise the rest of the population are entitled to draw their own conclusions about a section of society that appears to think it is above the law, abusing our tolerance and exploiting freedom of speech to cause offence, and incite VIOLENCE against our troops, and in a broader context, our very way of life. If these Muslims are British born, there is even more concern for alarm, since they have grown up here, been educated here and lived amongst us, yet are demonstrating their HATRED about our way of life, culture and traditions without one ounce of consideration or respect for our sensibilities and beliefs.

Respect, tolerance and consideration is a TWO WAY STREET, it's about time Muslims in this country accepted that. They are quick to DEMAND respect for their religion and culture, but they do very little to EARN it.

Just stop for a second.

First of all, you are grouping together a massive section of people. I don't think you are realizing it isn't all Muslims who feel this way. Go out to a Mosque and ask a Muslim there and I'm pretty damn sure they will condemn this lot who burnt the poppy too.

Secondly, like Christianity, there are several different denominations of Islam. You can't just say that because a governing body or Islam didn't come out and speak out against this, they are condoning what has happened. Its like if for example, the Church of England did something wrong and you're waiting for the Pope to apologise.

Thirdly, ignorance and disrespect is also a two way street which I'm afraid YOU are walking on. Why don't you take some time to research something before you label it all sorts of horrible names.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by happyland

I actually feel something close to hatred for these crazy, disrepectful tossers!

They shouldn't be allowed to get away with it! Round them all up and throw them on a plane back to Allah land.. (fling a rucksack or two in after them too!)

I lol'd

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by angus58

Throw the bastards out of the country - it is quite terrifying to think we have so many enemies in our midst who hate our guts yet are happy to exploit the freedom of speech they are denied in their own, oh so wonderful, countries. Why do we have to tolerate these treacherous, poisonous arseholes in this country? British soldiers died and are still dying to preserve the freedoms we ALL enjoy.
Let's see what would happen if we burned the Qu'ran, or stormed one of their mosques and disrupted their prayers? WW3 would break out, but we are expected to meekly accept this despicable and outrageous behaviour from people who hate our way of life yet insist on living here nonetheless.

This is the part that really irks be beyond belief. Our own Government allows protesters to act in this way the way the Poppy burners did....where the British are being targetted, the country in which has provided them with free medical care since birth, free (and high standard) education, and where needed, housing/benefits to live on should they be out of work etc. Never mind freedom of speech, freedom of movment etc.

What is worse however, is that some these people were actually born in Britain, raised here. The important part they seem to have missed altogether is that if it weren't for our troops, for our Government - they would not be allowed to publically protest, they would have no right to Free Speech, they would have no free high standard health care, no free education for 14/15 years.

If they dislike what our country is all about and wish to publically demonise - why do they stay? Because we are one of the pathetic countries so wrapped up in political correctness, who allow this type of thing to go unpunished, that nothing is done as long as it is not the 'white man' who is doing it.. If anything, if it were to be the opposite way around and the BNP (who btw I am against as much as these Muslim Extremists), you can be sure the police would be right in there with their tacky boots.

Extremists like these are not in the majority - they come in all shapes, sizes, creed, colour, background, religion regardless of country of birth. the very unfortunate part is that their actions impact on innocents who happen to share the same skin colour / race and or religion - that's the very sad part - so many others are viewed in the same way - and wrongly.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

Yes exactly, when in Rome and all that. If you don't like the countries ways then it's pretty simple really...............go home! Funny though these people I'm sure adapted quickly enough to all the good things that benefited them!!

Oh I agree, totally with the 'When in Rome' (I lived in the M.E. for years, behaved the way the Laws of the Country dictated, and I loved it).

That's fine and well for those who have exiled themselves from their 'homeland', but some (a lot) of these Muslim Extremists were actaully born and bred in Britain. Never having set foot outside of the country that they protest about. That's what pissed me off.... these are people who's own homelands don't allow such freedom of act/speech without being chucked in a hell hole called a jail - ie: a jail that is as it shoudl be, a place that people do not want to ever have to be sent to - unlike namby pamby British jails.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Sooooooooo...silly wee disrespectful laddies who urinate on war memorials are jailed for 6 months, which they should be.

Yet muslim fanatics are allowed to burn giant poppy's on remembrance day as they shout British troop burn in hell while the cops look on.

PRETTY SCARY TO THINK WHAT BRITAIN'S GOING TO BE LIKE IN 15 YRS TIME.

Excellent comparision to show how precisely the cowardy and hypocritical people of our own Country have no consistentany when it comes to following the Laws of the Country.

Government pussies. That's all they are.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Me!

Just stop for a second.

First of all, you are grouping together a massive section of people. I don't think you are realizing it isn't all Muslims who feel this way. Go out to a Mosque and ask a Muslim there and I'm pretty damn sure they will condemn this lot who burnt the poppy too.

Secondly, like Christianity, there are several different denominations of Islam. You can't just say that because a governing body or Islam didn't come out and speak out against this, they are condoning what has happened. Its like if for example, the Church of England did something wrong and you're waiting for the Pope to apologise.

Thirdly, ignorance and disrespect is also a two way street which I'm afraid YOU are walking on. Why don't you take some time to research something before you label it all sorts of horrible names.

Try reading my post more carefully before accusing others of ignorance. I am fully aware that there are thousands upon thousands of peaceful lawabiding muslims in this country, but unfortunately, there are thousands upon thousands of ignoramuses who don't know that and will just lump ALL muslims together. Therefore it is incumbent on the law abiding muslims amongst us to take some responsibility for this misapprehension and distance themselves from extremists by condemning them publicly.

Secondly, don't even bother attempting to lecture me about christianiity - go patronise someone else who gives a damn about your ridiculous analogies.

Thirdly, ignorance and disrespect might well be a two way street, but until you see me doing anything remotely disrespectful against Islam I suggest you keep your ridiculous assumptions to yourself. You are the very sort of politically correct idiot who has allowed this kind of inflammatory behaviour to flourish in this country unchallenged. As to calling the muslim extremists "horrible names", I thought they were more than apposite in view of the nature of their offensive behaviour.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Me!

Just stop for a second.

First of all, you are grouping together a massive section of people. I don't think you are realizing it isn't all Muslims who feel this way. Go out to a Mosque and ask a Muslim there and I'm pretty damn sure they will condemn this lot who burnt the poppy too.

Secondly, like Christianity, there are several different denominations of Islam. You can't just say that because a governing body or Islam didn't come out and speak out against this, they are condoning what has happened. Its like if for example, the Church of England did something wrong and you're waiting for the Pope to apologise.

Thirdly, ignorance and disrespect is also a two way street which I'm afraid YOU are walking on. Why don't you take some time to research something before you label it all sorts of horrible names.

What sorts of names do you suggest are given to Muslim Extremists, who chose to remain living in the very country that they are protesting about, who have so little respect for the men and women who are out risking their lives so that people in Britain can have rights of freedom? That they act in such a manner, publically and in the most disrespectful manner to the people that they in fact, owe their right to even appearing in public in this way - far less their despicable actions?

What label would you suggest we give, to the people spotlighted in this story (I'm not speaking of Muslims, I'm speaking of the Extremists - and people such as these mentally deranged asswipes - which are apparent in all race/creed/religion/). shall we refer to them as 'poor misguided little wee souls'???

Puhhllllleaase.

[Wildcat!]

I am muslim. I have read a lot of the comments here, and frankly, I am not surprised by them. I am not surprised at some of the hate being shown. To me, I think its understandable. Its misguided, but its understandable, if you see it from the POV, of a non muslim. And I really believe, they should be arrested for such demonstrations. And prosecuted, like anybody who commits a hate act. But ask yourself, why is it allowed? I would go as far as to say that allowing it, is not doing muslims any favors. Even if its only a few people doing it, letting it happen, make it stick out like a sore thumb, in a period of remembrance for the dead. People have a hard time differenciating between muslims, and extremists for that reason. BEcause, all they hear, is muslims, and thats it. I dont know, what the law is on this, but why dont you arrest these people. I am even suspicious, that they dont just to make the hate for Islam in general, even that much stronger. Like I said, I dont know the law, and I dont get why these people are allowed to demonstrate, this level of disrespect, for a sovereign nation, which they belong to.

That was my first point, but secondly, these so called muslims, dont even now what they are talking about. Most of the time, they are just a bunch of Hooligans. Their labels are incorrect, they dont even know what their all religion really preaches. They are brandishing sayings like "we go to hell, and you go to heaven". ONly an idiot, who knows nothing about Islam would claim such a thing. Frst of all, you are not guaranteed a place in heaven as a muslim, in the islamic beliefs. Second of all, Islam, acknowledges all the biblical religions. As a muslim, I can marry in to christianity, or judaism, and she doesnt have to change her religion.

IN the Quran, Christians are often referred to as among the "People of the Book," i.e. people who have received and believed in previous revelation from God's prophets.

Here are a few mention of them : "Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians -- whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve" (2:62, 5:69, and many other verses).

"...and nearest among them in love to the believers will you find those who say, 'We are Christians,' because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant" (5:82).

"O you who believe! Be helpers of God -- as Jesus the son of Mary said to the Disciples, 'Who will be my helpers in (the work of) God?' Said the disciples, 'We are God's helpers!' Then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved. But We gave power to those who believed, against their enemies, and they became the ones that prevailed" (61:14).

So this goes to show you, that these people, and most extremists, use Islam, as a platform for their own agenda. It is just who they are, they are beligerent people, who dont like peace, and what they do, have nothing whatsoever to do with Islam. Anyone can just say, in the name of whatever, I am gonna do this. It doesnt mean that its true, AND I believe people should be more educated about that.
I also believe, Islamic leaders have the responsibility to stand up and condemn these acts. They should ban them from their mosque, so they can go and have their own sect, and can easily be located.
In this instance, they did condemn it, I even heard it from the Imam sermon, where I went on Friday, but obviously, that didnt make the news.

Bottom line is, Islam gets a bad rap because of these Criminals, thats really all I can call them. What religion would endorse such acts. The war was a world war, and muslims fought in it. SO not nly are these people ignorant about their religion, they are also ignorant about history in the first place. ANd thats why it pains me, that they are given importance, and I see from people's posts, that they simply class them as "those muslims".

This is why, I am a little perplexed, of the fact that they gave them an escort, basically showing them acting like animals, while normal people reflected.
Thats why, they should just be arrested, not given any press (at least the BBC didnt, they had the right idea), and treated, like any people who try to disturbe a religious event. Again, I dont understand why they are allowed!


As for the people asking them to be deported, dont be ridiculous, you are being just as ignorant as they are. These people arent from another country. Their parents maybe originated from somewhere else, just like a lot of British nowadays. They arent going anywhere, they are British, no matter how you put it. They dont belong to another country. BUt they should be held accountable, and prosecuted. I just dont get it!

[Wildcat!]

Dang!! I didnt realise my post was so big!

[Wildcat!]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Thats the thing, you move to another country and you adapt to their way of life. Even on holiday you do. I mean, a few years ago I went to tunisia...and obviously in the tourist areas they are used to seeing people in shorts and that, but it IS classed as disrespectful for women to 'flaunt themselves' by daring to expose legs or cleavage. When we went to the markets and that, I would make sure I was dressed respectfully, regardless of the weather, I nearly passed out at one point, but its what you do...why upset people just for the sake of it...

I realize a lot of these people are born here, but surely those would have adapted already, being brought up here :/

Which Tunisia is this? From a parallel universe? Tunsia, is not a prudish country, or a fundamental muslim country. You will stick out more if you did dress conservatively! Women there dress the exact same way, as people do in the UK, probably wear even less, because its not cold over there. A few wear Hijab and stuff, but they are the exceptions. MOst of them dont.
Another big misconception, there are only a few opredominantly muslim countries, where you see all women covered up from head to toe. Obviously, those are the ones people like to identify muslims with. This fable, proves it even more.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

Dang!! I didnt realise my post was so big!

TBH, your post is fair. The thing that all people need to understand is that these people are EXTREMISTS. And extremists exist everywhere, in every colour, in every religon,in every creed ('White Christian man' included). You are correct when you say they should be punished - in the same manner in which the 'disrespectful twats who urintated on the War Memorial' were punished.

The unfair meting out (or not as the case) of punishment is as much of a problem as the Extremists.

In defence of the point being made by some about 'deporting'... I (in my view) think that comes more from the understandable reaction that if these type of Extremists loathe Britain and it's ways so much: they should be asked to leave British shores.

We have a government that don't have the guts to do this - so in the meantime, Extremists like this, will continue.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

Which Tunisia is this? From a parallel universe? Tunsia, is not a prudish country, or a fundamental muslim country. You will stick out more if you did dress conservatively! Women there dress the exact same way, as people do in the UK, probably wear even less, because its not cold over there. A few wear Hijab and stuff, but they are the exceptions. MOst of them dont.
Another big misconception, there are only a few opredominantly muslim countries, where you see all women covered up from head to toe. Obviously, those are the ones people like to identify muslims with. This fable, proves it even more.

There is no need for you to be so bloody patronising.

Tunisia may be a very liberal country, however the fact remains that 98% of the 10million population of Tunisia follow the Islamic faith(Sunni) and to that end, Westerners will afford a high level of respect, for which you appear to be ridiculing somewhat in your post (as well as trying belitte another fm). You post here suggests that it would be more than acceptable to wander around Tunisian souks wearing a bikini top - when this is not the case.

I visited Tunisa about 15 years ago, and let me tell you right now, outside of the 'more Cosmopolitan areas', I can assure you, I felt as restricted there as I did when I lived in Saudi Arabia So please.... your own opinoin doesn't speak for the experience others may have had.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

And I really believe, they should be arrested for such demonstrations. And prosecuted, like anybody who commits a hate act. But ask yourself, why is it allowed? ....

I am even suspicious, that they dont just to make the hate for Islam in general, even that much stronger. Like I said, I dont know the law, and I dont get why these people are allowed to demonstrate, this level of disrespect, for a sovereign nation, which they belong to......

Its called freedom of speech/expression. People can voice their opinions regardless of how unsavoury it is until they break the law. One of the joys of living in a reasonable democracy, I suppose.

If the police decided to arrest in order to prevent trouble they would be accused of being oppresive, wouldnt they? Not only that but the human/civil rights brigade would soon have the lawyers on the case. Public Order, demonstrations etc are a no win situation for them in most cases. (Except for the overtime pay)

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

That was my first point, but secondly, these so called muslims, dont even now what they are talking about. Most of the time, they are just a bunch of Hooligans. Their labels are incorrect, they dont even know what their all religion really preaches.......

As a muslim, I can marry in to christianity, or judaism, and she doesnt have to change her religion.

Doesnt that depend on the School of Islam you follow?

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

I also believe, Islamic leaders have the responsibility to stand up and condemn these acts. They should ban them from their mosque, so they can go and have their own sect, and can easily be located.
In this instance, they did condemn it, I even heard it from the Imam sermon, where I went on Friday, but obviously, that didnt make the news.

Very true but it doesnt carry the same interest for news editors and the like. One or two newspapers and news programs did convey moderate mainstream muslim community leaders condemning the demonstration and actions.

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

This is why, I am a little perplexed, of the fact that they gave them an escort, basically showing them acting like animals, while normal people reflected.
Thats why, they should just be arrested, not given any press (at least the BBC didnt, they had the right idea), and treated, like any people who try to disturbe a religious event. Again, I dont understand why they are allowed!

They are escorted for two reasons to reduce/deter any trouble rowdier elements within their members may wish to start. But also to protect them in the event people they do upset with their views decide to take the law into their own hands.

Its a bad idea when the state interferes with what the press can and cant show, it leads to a lot of criticism both here and abroad. It also undermines foreign policy etc.

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

BUt they should be held accountable, and prosecuted. I just dont get it!

Two of them were arrested and bailed. Whether any prosecution ensues will be down to the Police and the CPS.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Wildcat!

Dang!! I didnt realise my post was so big!

It was a good post Wildcat, I particularly agreed with the last bit about the protestors being British; All over Facebook rcently I've seen people saying "why dont they go back where they came from" and "they should be deported" etc. when they were born here, raised here and are British citizens. We might hate what they were doing but they are still British whether people like it or not.

Just on the issue of why it was allowed to happen, the difficulty is that there is a very fine line between free speech and hate speech. Everyone should have a right to protest but it's quite hard to determine when that protest becomes a hate crime. It's never an easy decision to make, and it's not just been an issue with Islamic extremists, the same problem has existed with the EDL, BNP etc. I really dont think it was allowed just so Islamophobia would increase.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Thats the thing, you move to another country and you adapt to their way of life. Even on holiday you do. I mean, a few years ago I went to tunisia...and obviously in the tourist areas they are used to seeing people in shorts and that, but it IS classed as disrespectful for women to 'flaunt themselves' by daring to expose legs or cleavage. When we went to the markets and that, I would make sure I was dressed respectfully, regardless of the weather, I nearly passed out at one point, but its what you do...why upset people just for the sake of it...

I realize a lot of these people are born here, but surely those would have adapted already, being brought up here :/

This.

[Angus]

[QUOTE=Shasown;3909658]Its called freedom of speech/expression. People can voice their opinions regardless of how unsavoury it is until they break the law. One of the joys of living in a reasonable democracy, I suppose

So now its called freedom of speech instead of incitement to violence and hatred, when they call for the killing of British troops? How low has this country sunk?

[Shasown]

[QUOTE=angus58;3909826]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Its called freedom of speech/expression. People can voice their opinions regardless of how unsavoury it is until they break the law. One of the joys of living in a reasonable democracy, I suppose

So now its called freedom of speech instead of incitement to violence and hatred, when they call for the killing of British troops? How low has this country sunk?

I may be missing something here but where in the original article do they call for the killing of British Troops?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ning-hate.html

Their comments were unpalatable, offensive and given the time and place designed to create as much publicity and offense as possible, but going by the article in this case they werent inciting violence and hatred. Unless of course you know better.

[Niall]

Originally Posted by angus58

Try reading my post more carefully before accusing others of ignorance. I am fully aware that there are thousands upon thousands of peaceful lawabiding muslims in this country, but unfortunately, there are thousands upon thousands of ignoramuses who don't know that and will just lump ALL muslims together. Therefore it is incumbent on the law abiding muslims amongst us to take some responsibility for this misapprehension and distance themselves from extremists by condemning them publicly.

Secondly, don't even bother attempting to lecture me about christianiity - go patronise someone else who gives a damn about your ridiculous analogies.

Thirdly, ignorance and disrespect might well be a two way street, but until you see me doing anything remotely disrespectful against Islam I suggest you keep your ridiculous assumptions to yourself. You are the very sort of politically correct idiot who has allowed this kind of inflammatory behaviour to flourish in this country unchallenged. As to calling the muslim extremists "horrible names", I thought they were more than apposite in view of the nature of their offensive behaviour.

Okay so I'm gonna go ahead and assume your a Christian (please correct me if I'm wrong). I'm Catholic, do you expect me to go and give the Pope or any of those child-molesting Priests a piece of my mind about what has been going on behind closed doors? I hope not, because its a ridiculous thing to expect.

I actually know plenty of Muslims to know that the majority of them are decent, hard working people like anyone else. I just can't stand it when people start having kittens because an extremely small group like this who claim to be Muslim go and do something extremely controversial. In fact the majority of Muslim's wouldn't even consider this lot Muslim for the simple fact their views do not match those upheld in the Qur'an. I think its extremely unfair for a minority of people to get the blame for something like this.

And don't you dare call me politically correct. Just because I think its derogatory for someone to call a person from Pakistan for example a 'pak!' doesn't make me politically correct. I only am this way because of the way my father and brother refer to Islam - I've grown up in a very politically incorrect family, hell my brother even votes BNP. I can't stand it when anybody dislikes a certain group of people because of their religion etc, and I've had plenty of arguments about this stuff before.

And by horrible names I meant you saying (or what it looked like to me what you were saying) is saying that they incite violence and hatred.

Also I do believe they should be punished. I'm just trying to defend something because the way people have been talking about this as of late makes me think people really are a lot more ignorant then I thought.

Lastly, no hard feelings right?