[arista]

Sure England will not want it

But in 3 years time the Scotts could back it
as the bonus behind the deal is the Key.

It was reported today David would allow
them to Vote up there.

Its for the Scottish People Alone to Pick
what they want.


And it is Bliss
that if we get the Republic Of Scotland
Labour with Die.


I will Jump with Pure Joy.


Times Are Changing.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

Sure England will not want it

But in 3 years time the Scotts could back it
as the bonus behind the deal is the Key.

It was reported today David would allow
them to Vote up there.

Its for the Scottish People Alone to Pick
what they want.


And it is Bliss
that if we get the Republic Of Scotland
Labour with Die.


I will Jump with Pure Joy.


Times Are Changing.

I feel you are missing the point I am trying to make,it is not for the Scottish people alone to decide to have independence,yes in a referendum they can vote for it as they voted for devolution in 1979 but Margaret Thatcher refused to grant it,however,that referendum vote would not in any way be binding to the govt in Westminster who have to take the whole UK picture.Only the Westminster UK parliament can grant independence to one of its Nations and there is not a single main UK party who would support that.

An Alex Salmond/SNP referendum can be taken as a barometer but it cannot be made binding to a UK Westminster govt.

Actually it's also a poor argument to say that without Scotland Labour would be finished, in both 1997 and 2001 and to a degree in 2005 even without the Scottish seats won by Labour there would have still been Labour Govts,albeit in 2005 a likely minority Labour govt.
Without the 41 seats won in Scotland by Lab 2005, they would have still had 314 seats.

[arista]

No its is the Scottish Vote Only.

Watch the News

[joeysteele]

For the referendum only.Yes.
I have watched the news, it is the 'law', the SNP cannot get a yes in a referendum and automatically get independence, it has to be granted by the UK parliament,read the law on constitutional matters, this is a constitutional matter, the Scots parliament has no power over matters of the constitution.

[joeysteele]

Either way it would not finish the Labour party as you say it will, as there are only 60 seats in Scotland, take those 60 seats away,that leaves 590 English/Welsh and Irish seats, needing 296 for an overall majority then without any Scottish seats.

Labour won 41 Scottish seats in 2005,they got 355 seats in the 2005 election, so without the Scottish seats that leaves 314, they would have still had an overall majority of 30+.

[arista]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Either way it would not finish the Labour party as you say it will, as there are only 60 seats in Scotland, take those 60 seats away,that leaves 590 English/Welsh and Irish seats, needing 296 for an overall majority then without any Scottish seats.

Labour won 41 Scottish seats in 2005,they got 355 seats in the 2005 election, so without the Scottish seats that leaves 314, they would have still had an overall majority of 30+.

It Bloody Could


And it would be Bliss.

Labour want UnElected Former Nutter Brown to
take him on so it can Backfire
He will be on Mic telling he own Nasty thoughts , again.

[BB_Eye]

If they become a sovereign state, then I am defecting to Scotland, no questions asked. Meanwhile England can enjoy decades of economic mismanagement and continued decimation of our schools, universities, and NHS. Before you know it every penny, of your taxes will be lining the pockets of PPP contractors, (privately owned and run) public transport parasites and military parades, not that any of you will mind I'm sure. It is obvious that you have learned nothing from the mistakes of every government for the past 30 years what you want and who am I to stop you going about your merry way?

Actually, I would be delighted if they go through with this. The English public will learn from their mistakes the hard way, just don't take me with you thank you very much.

[arista]

Originally Posted by BB_Eye

If they become a sovereign state, then I am defecting to Scotland, no questions asked. Meanwhile England can enjoy decades of economic mismanagement and continued decimation of our schools, universities, and NHS. Before you know it every penny, of your taxes will be lining the pockets of PPP contractors, (privately owned and run) public transport parasites and military parades, not that any of you will mind I'm sure. It is obvious that you have learned nothing from the mistakes of every government for the past 30 years what you want and who am I to stop you going about your merry way?

Actually, I would be delighted if they go through with this. The English public will learn from their mistakes the hard way, just don't take me with you thank you very much.

Good For You


Feel The Force.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

It Bloody Could


And it would be Bliss.

Labour want UnElected Former Nutter Brown to
take him on so it can Backfire
He will be on Mic telling he own Nasty thoughts , again.

Well I would bet Alex Salmond would grin from ear to ear if they unleashed Gordon Brown on them again. That would be a very unwise decision.
Having said that most Scots would rather Brown still as PM than Cameron.

How could it finish Labour though,I have just listed clear facts of the last 3 elections won by Labour where in no way were the Scottish seats even needed to win them a comfortable overall majority.

In truth, especially with the defeat of the AV vote,with PR now off the agenda for decades at least,we are back to the 2 party system and really neither the Conservatives or Labour are anywhere near being finished,the same cannot be said for the Lib Dems though.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by BB_Eye

If they become a sovereign state, then I am defecting to Scotland, no questions asked. Meanwhile England can enjoy decades of economic mismanagement and continued decimation of our schools, universities, and NHS. Before you know it every penny, of your taxes will be lining the pockets of PPP contractors, (privately owned and run) public transport parasites and military parades, not that any of you will mind I'm sure. It is obvious that you have learned nothing from the mistakes of every government for the past 30 years what you want and who am I to stop you going about your merry way?

Actually, I would be delighted if they go through with this. The English public will learn from their mistakes the hard way, just don't take me with you thank you very much.

I too would love one day to join members of my Father's family who are Scots and live in Scotland.Independent or not.
I love the place and the people.

[arista]

Yes Scotland is great

I may even buy a castle up there
so I can export more

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by arista

Sure England will not want it

But in 3 years time the Scotts could back it
as the bonus behind the deal is the Key.

I don't think English people care too much either way.

and I really don't know why you think the Scots would vote to be a republic in a referendum. There's just no strong indication to back that up. In fact, all indications suggest otherwise.

The SNP have only increased their votes since they are restricted to power WITHIN THE UK fold. Votes for the SNP are not votes for independance like it used to be before Scots had their own parliament. And as Ive said, they don't even get anywhere near a majority. So in a referendum I really don't see where 50% plus of the votes would even come from.

and you can go on about feelings being different in a few years but thats just wishful thinking. It takes a damn sight longer than that for a population to suddenly switch to wanting to be a republic. It takes generations.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Zippy

I don't think English people care too much either way.

and I really don't know why you think the Scots would vote to be a republic in a referendum. There's just no strong indication to back that up. In fact, all indications suggest otherwise.

The SNP have only increased their votes since they are restricted to power WITHIN THE UK fold. Votes for the SNP are not votes for independance like it used to be before Scots had their own parliament. And as Ive said, they don't even get anywhere near a majority. So in a referendum I really don't see where 50% plus of the votes would even come from.

and you can go on about feelings being different in a few years but thats just wishful thinking. It takes a damn sight longer than that for a population to suddenly switch to wanting to be a republic. It takes generations.

I totally agree,as you point out the SNP did not even get over 50% of the votes and many of the increased votes to the 45% they did get were protest votes from Lib Dems.

The last part of your post sums the realities of the situation up perfectly too.

[arista]

"I don't think English people care too much either way."


True.


I look Forwards

The Republic of Scotland
CDX Castle Party

[BB_Eye]

Originally Posted by Zippy

I don't think English people care too much either way.

and I really don't know why you think the Scots would vote to be a republic in a referendum. There's just no strong indication to back that up. In fact, all indications suggest otherwise.

The SNP have only increased their votes since they are restricted to power WITHIN THE UK fold. Votes for the SNP are not votes for independance like it used to be before Scots had their own parliament. And as Ive said, they don't even get anywhere near a majority. So in a referendum I really don't see where 50% plus of the votes would even come from.

and you can go on about feelings being different in a few years but thats just wishful thinking. It takes a damn sight longer than that for a population to suddenly switch to wanting to be a republic. It takes generations.

The SNP won 69 out of 129 seats. It was a landslide victory.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by BB_Eye

The SNP won 69 out of 129 seats. It was a landslide victory.

Im talking about actual percentage of the population. And those votes were not for independance but for what the SNP do within the UK. It makes sense that they would vote for the party who will fight more for the benefit of Scots within the UK system. But that doesnt mean they want to be a republic.

[joeysteele]

It's a single figure overall majority of 9. A great win, no doubt but with 45% of voters backing them which means 55% of voters voted for UK Unionist parties and part of that 45% vote the SNP got were disenchanted Lib Dems votes, this time round anyway.

[BB_Eye]

Originally Posted by Zippy

Im talking about actual percentage of the population. And those votes were not for independance but for what the SNP do within the UK. It makes sense that they would vote for the party who will fight more for the benefit of Scots within the UK system. But that doesnt mean they want to be a republic.

Perhaps, but consider also that the only major Scottish city not secured by the SNP was the post-industrial Glasgow.

Edinburgh, Dundee, Aberdeen, Fife, you name it, all SNP territory now. Scotland is quite serious about this.

Sauce: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...sults-map.html

[joeysteele]

Dundee,Aberdeen and Fife have always had a strong SNP contingent there, Edinburgh used to have a strong Conservative element there but that's all gone.

Glasgow and Edinburgh are the 2 largest populated Cities in Scotland and despite some successes for the SNP there this time those 2 major cities will never overall support full independence.

Alex Salmond got his success this time because he underplayed the independence issue,he is only raising it now since this overall win but the people who voted SNP do not I believe have much desire for it and even the majority of people who voted SNP especially with confused Lib Dem former voters in the ranks are not likely to vote for independence or even want a referendum on it for that matter.

[Livia]

The SNP will now be in a position to have a referendum on their withdrawal from the UK. However, such a massive question cannot be answered by the Scots alone. If a referendum is held on the future of the United Kingdom, English people must be able to vote in it.

Most English people will vote to give Scotland independence, I think. English people are tired of paying through the nose for Scots to have free prescriptions, free tuition fees, free elderly care when the English don't get the same services themselves. Why would anyone want to do that? England would be much better off financially without having to subsidise a country that contributes little and costs a lot.

I'm not so sure that Wales will vote for independence. Plaid Cymru came third in last weeks election behind Labour and the Conservatives, so although the Welsh speak of independence, they like the money.

[arista]

"Most English people will vote to give Scotland independence, I think."

Bang On Right.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes Scotland is great

if its so great why is there about 3 million of them down here?

so many Scots boast about being Scottish(usually based on some ancient Braveheart notion of Scotland) but don't want to actually live there. Pardon me if I spot a contradiction.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Zippy

if its so great why is there about 3 million of them down here?

so many Scots boast about being Scottish(usually based on some ancient Braveheart notion of Scotland) but don't want to actually live there. Pardon me if I spot a contradiction.

Haha yeah very true, most of Braveheart was bull as well, a good film but completely innaccurate

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Zippy

if its so great why is there about 3 million of them down here?

so many Scots boast about being Scottish(usually based on some ancient Braveheart notion of Scotland) but don't want to actually live there. Pardon me if I spot a contradiction.

You thinks Scottish pride comes from a film? Wrong. The Scots boast about being Scottish because we are proud of our culture, our history and our country.

[Novo]