[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Marriage is sacred you see, Two men or women can't get married because it isn't right but Kim Kardashian can marry for money and that's all fine and dandy because she married a man.

Good family values and all that.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

This

Marriage (to me anyway) is more of a religious thing. I dont actually understand why any gay couple would want a part in something that demonises them for their sexual preferance anyway.

I personally agree but that's essentially a massive barrier to homosexuals who do identify themselves as Christian. It'd be like a gym banning fat people - we never use them, but it's nice to know they're there.

Plus there's still inequality about the whole thing. It's all very nice to say that homosexuals have equal rights now but they still have to say "oh we're not married, we're just under a civil union".

There's just no reason for there not to be gay marriage. Anyone who quotes the Bible is effectively drawing argument from the same book that allows you to sell your daughter, kill people for wearing two different fabrics and damn anyone for working on a Sunday.

Can straight people get civil partnerships? I would actually rather have that than marriage

I believe you can

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Shaun

I personally agree but that's essentially a massive barrier to homosexuals who do identify themselves as Christian. It'd be like a gym banning fat people - we never use them, but it's nice to know they're there.

Plus there's still inequality about the whole thing. It's all very nice to say that homosexuals have equal rights now but they still have to say "oh we're not married, we're just under a civil union".

There's just no reason for there not to be gay marriage. Anyone who quotes the Bible is effectively drawing argument from the same book that allows you to sell your daughter, kill people for wearing two different fabrics and damn anyone for working on a Sunday.

I believe you can

Meh not really. That said I know only one gay couple who have a civil partnership...but they class themselves as married, and tell people they are married :S

Its essentially the same thing but with a different name. So while I do think its daft for gay people to 'technically' not be able to be married...I also think its a bit daft to get wound up about not being able to get married in the traditional sense. And I definitely dont agree with some peoples ideas about forcing churches to allow gay marriages to happen. We have to respect their views (however ignorant and bigoted they are) and if their views are that being gay is a sin...then its wrong to force church folk to do something they disagree with.

Is a civil partnership just going to a registry office? Or is that classed as marriage too?

'Anyone who quotes the Bible is effectively drawing argument from the same book that allows you to sell your daughter, kill people for wearing two different fabrics and damn anyone for working on a Sunday.; at this bit though. How true this is

[Jords]

Working backwards!

[Niall]

What disgusting, backward cunts they are

[InOne]

Obama's view has always been a bit shakey on this topic, he used to oppose it but recently said he's "warming" to it. Don't know if he's given a official statement yet.

[Niall]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

This

Marriage (to me anyway) is more of a religious thing. I dont actually understand why any gay couple would want a part in something that demonises them for their sexual preferance anyway.

Can straight people get civil partnerships? I would actually rather have that than marriage

Well I'm a Christian and gay, so having a religious marriage would be more preferable to me than something secular.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Niall

Well I'm a Christian and gay, so having a religious marriage would be more preferable to me than something secular.

See I dont understand this at all.

It would be like me chosing a religion that hates women, thinks its unnatural to be a woman, and looks down on me for having a vagina

Each to their own though.

Do you go to church and that too?

[Niall]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

See I dont understand this at all.

It would be like me chosing a religion that hates women, thinks its unnatural to be a woman, and looks down on me for having a vagina

Each to their own though.

Do you go to church and that too?

Well its not as if I chose to be Christian really I've grown up in a Catholic family so its something that has been drummed into me and I kinda believe in it myself now. I don't identify myself as any type of denomination though now, I rejected all the going to Church crap. I mean if God's everywhere, why should I waste an hour a week at a building to see him? Its silly.

I used to go to Church though. Technically I should've been confirmed at 15, but by then I was fairly sure of sexuality and I wasn't going to enter into a lifelong commitment to a Church that thinks I'm morally wrong.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Meh not really. That said I know only one gay couple who have a civil partnership...but they class themselves as married, and tell people they are married :S

Its essentially the same thing but with a different name. So while I do think its daft for gay people to 'technically' not be able to be married...I also think its a bit daft to get wound up about not being able to get married in the traditional sense.

I suppose I'm more caught up with how other people perceive it. I just don't think we can say gay people have the same rights until gay marriage is legal.

And I definitely dont agree with some peoples ideas about forcing churches to allow gay marriages to happen. We have to respect their views (however ignorant and bigoted they are) and if their views are that being gay is a sin...then its wrong to force church folk to do something they disagree with.

That's the thing, though. The 'church' is so diverse and full of conflicting opinions that it's a bit rich to say they're being laboured with something they totally disagree with: there're many gay priests and bishops (and that's ignoring the obvious choir-boy jibes ) who're in favour of gay marriage. On the other hand there're groups of Christians in favour of picketing soldiers' funerals with "God Hates Fags" placards. It's not entirely representative to worry we're imposing something a whole religion disagrees with on them, when they don't.

Is a civil partnership just going to a registry office? Or is that classed as marriage too?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...l-partnerships

Reading that it would appear the only difference is a religious one.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Niall

Well its not as if I chose to be Christian really I've grown up in a Catholic family so its something that has been drummed into me and I kinda believe in it myself now. I don't identify myself as any type of denomination though now, I rejected all the going to Church crap. I mean if God's everywhere, why should I waste an hour a week at a building to see him? Its silly.

I used to go to Church though. Technically I should've been confirmed at 15, but by then I was fairly sure of sexuality and I wasn't going to enter into a lifelong commitment to a Church that thinks I'm morally wrong.

Bloody spot on. Very rare you hear/see a religious person say that too

I grew up in a christian family, was made to go to sunday school and that...knew from a very young age that it wasnt for me. Sunday school teachers must have hated me because I was a cocky little **** who kept asking questions they couldnt answer infront of everyone (main one being dinosaurs...I think I brought that up like every other week)

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

See I dont understand this at all.

It would be like me chosing a religion that hates women, thinks its unnatural to be a woman, and looks down on me for having a vagina

Each to their own though.

Do you go to church and that too?

....So Christianity?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Shaun

That's the thing, though. The 'church' is so diverse and full of conflicting opinions that it's a bit rich to say they're being laboured with something they totally disagree with: there're many gay priests and bishops (and that's ignoring the obvious choir-boy jibes ) who're in favour of gay marriage. On the other hand there're groups of Christians in favour of picketing soldiers' funerals with "God Hates Fags" placards. It's not entirely representative to worry we're imposing something a whole religion disagrees with on them, when they don't.

Thats a great point actually. I'm pretty damn sure its not ALL churches or ALL christians who oppose gay marriage...I'm sure a lot are openminded enough to realise that what goes on in another persons bedroom is absolutely ******* all to do with anyone else.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

....So Christianity?

Most religions tbh.

Part of the reason I have no religion

[Niall]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Bloody spot on. Very rare you hear/see a religious person say that too

I grew up in a christian family, was made to go to sunday school and that...knew from a very young age that it wasnt for me. Sunday school teachers must have hated me because I was a cocky little **** who kept asking questions they couldnt answer infront of everyone (main one being dinosaurs...I think I brought that up like every other week)

Haha. I just think its so silly to say things like "God is in all of us" but insist that I come to Church every week and all that. I hate the Church as an institution anyway. Its corrupt and unnecessary.

I never went to Sunday school, but I went to a Catholic primary though. My Nan used to look after me when I was little and she'd take me to all these churches and stuff. It was dull. She used to bring me to this prayer group thing sometimes where these people would just sit there praying the rosary over and over for like half an hour. It was boring as ****.

[Vicky.]

The main reason I hate churches (and yes I do hate them) is because of how they treat my grandma.

She used to go every sunday...and always put £50 in the collection. And £50 a week is a hell of a lot for a 70 year old living only on their pension.

Anyway, she got ill and went downhill really quickly so obviously had to stop going to church. I was living with her at the time. About a month after she stopped going, a letter came through the door...was just a plain white envelope and I used to open my grans post to get rid of junk mail and that, and make sure her bills were paid, so I opened it. Was a very short letter from her church. Said something along the lines of 'we have been missing you at church recently, hope everything is alright' and in with it was a collections envelope. I was ****ing fuming that they were still wanting cash off her, I didnt even tell her because I knew she was soft enough to give them it, I just put it in the bin. The week after that another collections envelope came with a note saying 'get well soon'. again, went in the bin.

That was the last of them, I think they got the hint. But for them to do stuff like that...just proves they are only out for money.

[Vicky.]

(And sorry for going a bit offtopic too )

[Niall]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

The main reason I hate churches (and yes I do hate them) is because of how they treat my grandma.

She used to go every sunday...and always put £50 in the collection. And £50 a week is a hell of a lot for a 70 year old living only on their pension.

Anyway, she got ill and went downhill really quickly so obviously had to stop going to church. I was living with her at the time. About a month after she stopped going, a letter came through the door...was just a plain white envelope and I used to open my grans post to get rid of junk mail and that, and make sure her bills were paid, so I opened it. Was a very short letter from her church. Said something along the lines of 'we have been missing you at church recently, hope everything is alright' and in with it was a collections envelope. I was ****ing fuming that they were still wanting cash off her, I didnt even tell her because I knew she was soft enough to give them it, I just put it in the bin. The week after that another collections envelope came with a note saying 'get well soon'. again, went in the bin.

That was the last of them, I think they got the hint. But for them to do stuff like that...just proves they are only out for money.

Yeah exactly. It pisses me of they demand money too. I hate it. You can be religious without having to be part of some institution.

[Ammi]

Imo the church and christians hide behind their arcaic traditions of 'marriage is between a man and a woman for the procreation of children' to try and justify their hypocracy and bigotry. There are many male/female 'christian' marriages which neither procreate any children or they end in divorce..oh and there's many other things some do which go against their religion..but it's not addressed as to whether they should be allowed a christian ceremony..it's ok because they're not gay..
..I was brought up in the Catholic faith too but this just typifies everything I loathe about christianity..I'd have more respect for them if they just turned round and said 'we don't like gay people'...they're just hypocrites who bend the rules to suit themselves..

I saw some of the christians in North Carolina who were supporting the ban..with their banners and sloganed Tshirts..and a lot of them were very young...early twenties maybe...I find it disturbing that these young people are being brought up with this bigotry instilled into them...
...unbelievable that it's 2012

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

I saw some of the christians in North Carolina who were supporting the ban..with their banners and sloganed Tshirts..and a lot of them were very young...early twenties maybe...I find it disturbing that these young people are being brought up with this bigotry instilled into them...
...unbelievable that it's 2012

IMO younger people seem to be a lot more tolerant of things than older people who are already set in their ways.

Its a lot more common to be gay (or be 'out'...I'm sure the amount of homosexuals were alway the same) these days than it was say...30-40 years ago, so younger people are more likely to accept it.

[Niall]

The one thing I find particularly ridiculous about Christian Churches rejecting gay marriage is the shaky ground their supporting evidence for such rejection is based on. Its been proved multiple times that the passages where the Bible declares homosexuality an "abomination" etc aren't to be taken literally. I think the Bible also says that wearing cotton is an "abomination"? Its ridiculous!

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

IMO younger people seem to be a lot more tolerant of things than older people who are already set in their ways.

Its a lot more common to be gay (or be 'out'...I'm sure the amount of homosexuals were alway the same) these days than it was say...30-40 years ago, so younger people are more likely to accept it.

I was referring to the young christians campaigning for the ban..most of them seemed to be in their early twenties..not young people in general..
..I find it disturbing that so many from childhood are still indoctrinated with such bigoted beliefs

[Niall]

Originally Posted by Ammi

I was referring to the young christians campaigning for the ban..most of them seemed to be in their early twenties..not young people in general..
..I find it disturbing that so many from childhood are still indoctrinated with such bigoted beliefs

Well this is Bible Belt America we're talking about. Its to be expected tbh.

[BBfanUSA]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

Oh, I presumed the vote was on those in favour of same-sex marriage and those against. Wow, I'm actually surprised America is so against it tbh.

It's actually a state by state basis.

California
New York
Iowa
And a bunch of NE states are the only ones that allow it. Though not a single one was by a public vote but instead thru each state's own congress or supreme court.

[Ammi]

..yes you're right it is to be expected in Bible Belt America...but I've witnessed it first hand here too..the bigotry instilled from a very young age