[arista]

[Energy firm bosses are being asked to justify their recent price rises by MPs questioning them in the House of Commons.]

http://news.sky.com/story/1161158/en...ght-on-big-six


Live on SkyNewsHD and BBC


A Labour MP just had a go at the Energy Bosses
saying Profits are High.
They said check a Supermarket or Phone Company
they have the same profits.

And the Profits are needed to carry on Trading.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by arista

And the Profits are needed to carry on Trading.

profits are by definition NOT needed to carry on trading... the definition of net profit is income minus expenses. If they are making a net profit, then their expenses are less than their income, and therefore, they do not "need" it to carry on trading.

[MTVN]

They are needed if they want to maintain their positions as the biggest energy companies

[fingers]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

profits are by definition NOT needed to carry on trading... the definition of net profit is income minus expenses. If they are making a net profit, then their expenses are less than their income, and therefore, they do not "need" it to carry on trading.

Well put!

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by arista

[Energy firm bosses are being asked to justify their recent price rises by MPs questioning them in the House of Commons.]

http://news.sky.com/story/1161158/en...ght-on-big-six


Live on SkyNewsHD and BBC


A Labour MP just had a go at the Energy Bosses
saying Profits are High.
They said check a Supermarket or Phone Company
they have the same profits.

And the Profits are needed to carry on Trading.

That was a point someone raised on QT a couple of weeks ago as well, apparently the energy companies typically run profit margins of about 5-6% which is the same as most of the major supermarkets

[fingers]

Originally Posted by MTVN

They are needed if they want to maintain their positions as the biggest energy companies

...and to continue to pay their "Fat Cats" obscene bonuses for making bigger profits regardless!

[fingers]

One might also ask, naively, if these bonuses are paid BEFORE the net profit is calculated or do they reduce the profit earned?

[Kizzy]

However supermarkets make a profit on things people want not need in the main... we need energy, imo it is not a luxury and should be VAT exempt. that would save 5-6% right off.
That is before you tackle the issue of profit.

[fingers]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

However supermarkets make a profit on things people want not need in the main... we need energy, imo it is not a luxury and should be VAT exempt. that would save 5-6% right off.
That is before you tackle the issue of profit.

Don't forget Britain's "Save the World" "GREEN TAX"!

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by MTVN

They are needed if they want to maintain their positions as the biggest energy companies

This is essentially admitting that they are a cartel... they should be in competition with each other to be the biggest / best. But they're not, they're in cahoots, because they can each make more by agreeing to not compete against each other and being the "biggest companies" with customers bouncing around between them annually via price comparison sites. There is literally no other way to explain them all hiking prices by roughly the same percentage at exactly the same time.

Also, comparing themselves to phone companies and even moreso supermarkets, is a bit of a joke.

In the case of phone companies, it's plain to see that competition has worked extremely well for the consumer, with phone contracts either remaining static in price or falling dramatically... it used to cost a fortune to run a mobile phone, but the effect of competition with contracts means that you can now get a brand new high end smartphone with generous allowances for £15 - £20 a month. 5 years ago it was more like £30 - £35 a month. 5 years before that most people were paying "per text" - a bill of £60+ wasn't unusual for me.

As for supermarkets, you can't compare them at all to energy companies. It's a 2 minute transaction, you can shop around. Tesco cheaper than Asda for apples? Go to Tesco. But Asda's got a deal on washing powder? You can go there too, on the same day. Again, the effect of competition between supermarkets is very obvious.

Energy providers, on the other hand? You can't look at who is offering the best deal on a day to day basis and say "Oh, I'll get my gas from them today then". If you could, maybe they would actually try to compete with each other.

[Kizzy]

What about it... do you not think there will be a nuclear tax?
There will and it will be huge, renewable energy is necessary for decarbonisation targets.
What is that to do with the profits which is the topic of the discussion.
Redirection and deflection of the facts by the government is filtering through to the electorate nicely.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

This is essentially admitting that they are a cartel... they should be in competition with each other to be the biggest / best. But they're not, they're in cahoots, because they can each make more by agreeing to not compete against each other and being the "biggest companies" with customers bouncing around between them annually via price comparison sites. There is literally no other way to explain them all hiking prices by roughly the same percentage at exactly the same time.

Also, comparing themselves to phone companies and even moreso supermarkets, is a bit of a joke.

In the case of phone companies, it's plain to see that competition has worked extremely well for the consumer, with phone contracts either remaining static in price or falling dramatically... it used to cost a fortune to run a mobile phone, but the effect of competition with contracts means that you can now get a brand new high end smartphone with generous allowances for £15 - £20 a month. 5 years ago it was more like £30 - £35 a month. 5 years before that most people were paying "per text" - a bill of £60+ wasn't unusual for me.

As for supermarkets, you can't compare them at all to energy companies. It's a 2 minute transaction, you can shop around. Tesco cheaper than Asda for apples? Go to Tesco. But Asda's got a deal on washing powder? You can go there too, on the same day. Again, the effect of competition between supermarkets is very obvious.

Energy providers, on the other hand? You can't look at who is offering the best deal on a day to day basis and say "Oh, I'll get my gas from them today then". If you could, maybe they would actually try to compete with each other.

They are purely being compared in terms of profit margins, it might be easier to find cheaper deals with phones, supermarkets etc. these days but they are still running profit margins roughly equivalent to energy firms. Yes there are obvious differences, and one of them being that energy companies don't actually have as much control over their prices, seeing as they are a lot more controlled by international market prices and have things like green taxes imposed on top of them

I don't see how saying they need to make a profit is admitting they are a cartel either, show me a company that is one of the biggest in its field that is only breaking even, it's not possible

[joeysteele]

I found little of their reasoning convincing. I am firmly in the complete re-organisation of energy and those who supply it camp.

All I feel comes across is sheer greed.

[the truth]

these idiot politicians set up this cartel system
where there is a totally monopoly and price fixing
these parliamentary commitees and hearings also costs millions to run, but if they get prices don it may just be worth it
the whole utilities industry should be nationalised.
the tax payer pays for all the infrastructure yet the private 5 companies cream off all the profits, its obscene, its a global scam

[fingers]

In all other types of business consumers can make their displeasure felt by hurting their profits (which is the only thing that businesses fear). How do you send a message to these energy suppliers? by not using electricity or burning gas? They have a Monopoly and they know it.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by fingers

In all other types of business consumers can make their displeasure felt by hurting their profits (which is the only thing that businesses fear). How do you send a message to these energy suppliers? by not using electricity or burning gas? They have a Monopoly and they know it.

exactly this is not a marketplace at all....anyone with a brain can see that....except bbc so called reporters who never even make this obvious point

[arista]

Ch4 8PM tonight

Dispatches 30mins Docu
Energy Prices


[Energy Bills Exposed
60% of us have never
switched energy provider.
In this clip, we meet Elaine
who's been with hers for 38 years...]
Video preview
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches

[arista]

On Ch4HD and Ch4 Now

[Kizzy]

Watching now...

[Josy]

I got a letter today actually from Scottish Power telling me the prices were going up on the 6th of December then at the bottom were it shows you the price differences the price per kw usage is slighter higher but the price in pence is lower.

It's confused me tbh so I'm going to have to phone them up..

[fingers]

Originally Posted by Josy

I got a letter today actually from Scottish Power telling me the prices were going up on the 6th of December then at the bottom were it shows you the price differences the price per kw usage is slighter higher but the price in pence is lower.

It's confused me tbh so I'm going to have to phone them up..

ANY communication from ANY of the Energy suppliers is designed to be as obscure , confusing and misleading as the English language can make it.

[smeagol]

we need to pay to heat their second homes even though we cant afford to heat our own
no need to watch. they do what they like. there is no resolution at the end. just hot air pardon the pun lol

[fingers]

Originally Posted by smeagol

we need to pay to heat their second homes even though we cant afford to heat our own
no need to watch. they do what they like. there is no resolution at the end. just hot air pardon the pun lol

Typical answer from an Energy supplier: We know price increases hurt. We feel your pain!

[smeagol]

Originally Posted by fingers

Typical answer from an Energy supplier: We know price increases hurt. We feel your pain!

shocking. they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it, older people are the ones who really suffer and profit shouldn't be a factor.

[arista]

Tonight 7:30PM ITV1 and ITV1HD
have a Special Tonight Edition.

Showing How to Save on Energy bills

Record it - if you can not watch it etc.