[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by empire

foxy knoxy is a psychopath, she has ice cold shark eyes, and has narcissistic personality,

Really, ... How , based on what ?

This is it really, ignorant comments like this based on salacious gossip and press tittle tattle .

Psychopath ....????

Foxy eyes....???

Comments like these are hard to understand ...tbh

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Foxy eyes....??

Shark eyes apparently. The "foxy knoxy" thing was because she used to be vaguely hot at the start of all of this. She's not aged well though.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I guess that I still see the cases not really comparable because Meredith Kercher is dead, she was brutally murdered..there is no doubt that a crime was committed/it’s a fact...so it’s more having an opinion on who her murderer was...but with the other cases you mentioned/the historic sex cases etc..there’s not sufficient reliable evidence to say that any crime ever took place at all at any point in time/we would only be guessing at that and what foundation could our guessing have with no evidence to ponder over.... so for me they aren’t really similar at all....

Aren't there two people who were found guilty of Meredith Kercher's murder who are currently serving life sentences for the crime.

[Z]

Originally Posted by lostalex

how can you feel sorry for the Kerchers? they have been disgraceful the whole time. Meredith must be ashamed of her family if her soul is watching from somewhere. The Kerchers have taken a case where one young woman was victim and instead of acting with dignity, they have victimized another young girl.

Shame on the Kerchers.

How can I feel sorry for the family whose daughter was violently murdered and who have been led to believe by the Italian police that their daughter was killed by her flatmate in some kind of group orgy-murder, have that information revealed to the public, then be brought into doubt by conflicting evidence, have those people thrown into jail, then have that be overturned, then they're re-charged, before the case is thrown out many years later? They've had absolutely no closure on this, never knowing if their daughter's murderer(s) is/are behind bars or not. How can you say that they haven't acted with dignity? They've rarely given interviews from what I can remember, all they said about the news is they're very surprised and shocked because it's completely unprecedented for a conviction to be annulled like that, nobody was expecting that result, not even Knox and Sollecito's lawyers.

At worst, the Kercher family are victims of the Italian police's determination to secure a conviction; at best, their daughter's murderers have walked free and they've somehow found the strength to not publicly rip into Knox and Sollecito and speak their minds.

Direct quotes from Arline Kercher:-

"Our family has always expressed faith in the Italian justice system," Mrs Kercher said. "Now we feel let down because the crime has not been resolved and it's finished like this with a question mark."

Asked whether she believed Miss Knox was a friend of her daughter's, Mrs Kercher said she did not know and that "she didn't want to talk about that girl".

I think considering the circumstances, her words are more than fair. If you were told by the police that someone was responsible for killing someone in your family for eight years only for the courts to throw it out after convicting them twice, you'd be devastated too. I think that's far safer assumption to make than talking about how Meredith would feel if she was watching over her family.

[Kizzy]

This seems a similar case, I think Knox and her partner were involved, if only due to her 'elation' in the aftermath.


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-li...x-game-5403553

[Vanessa]

She has killer eyes.

[Niamh.]

Back on topic please. Stick to the actual thread and not discussing eachother or I'm going to have to lock this thread permanently

[kirklancaster]

I don't know which sources those supporting Amanda Knox are relying upon, but I do know that I have spent a lot of time researching this case and - as usual - for every internet site which declares one set of facts as the 'truth', there is another which declares a polar opposite set of facts as the 'truth' also.

As with any subject, it is all too easy to alight upon one website which comprehensively persuades that Knox is innocent (and vice versa) with several pages of well written 'facts' and 'data' - all seemingly corroborated with textual and photographic 'evidence', 'quotes' and photographs, then come away satisfied with what we have read and convinced of its truth.

This is a gross mistake. Yet it really takes considerable time and effort to research all the information which is out there and sift through the deliberate lies and distortions by cross referencing multiple sources - the trial transcript alone runs to nearly 500 pages.

After undertaking this task over the past 4 days (and part of the nights) I will say that in my opinion, the pro-Knox sites and articles are nothing more than deliberate attempts to conceal the truth that Knox is a cold, calculating, evil murderer.

I will not summarise because the subjects is exhaustive and the simple truths have been rendered complex by the lies propagated by the pro-Knox campaigners who have uitilised money and influence to do so.

But don't take my word for anything, spend some real time researching for yourself. Look at as many sites you may desire to but be sure to follow the links below, because there - in my opinion - is the truth of the matter.

http://http://www.truejustice.org/ee..._of_your_visi/

http://http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Main_Page

The True Justice website contains other internal links to the Trial Transcripts among other documents for those interested in the truth.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index...._of_your_visi/

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Main_Page

Just fixing your links Kirkanold, you made a right arse of them!

[Sticks]

Some new possible information has come to light, I will say no more while I investigate if it is yet another red herring.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Just fixing your links Kirkanold, you made a right arse of them!

Not used to this new fangled stuff TS - Thanks.

[Sticks]

Elsewhere, the comments section of the Daily Mail, supporters of the Kerchers, if I understand right, there was a throwaway line about Knox and Aspergers, a form of Autism

Now it needs to noted that Aspergers Syndrome and autism manifests slightly differently in females than it does males. When Hans Asperger first described the condition he was only working with boys, so female autism traits are less well known.

The comment in the DM came out of left field but as Warrick Brown once said to Grissom in an early episode of CSI "You have to follow the evidence no matter where it leads", I googled Knox and Aspergers and got this article.

Could Amanda Knox Have an Autism Spectrum Disorder?
By Maia Szalavitz @maiaszJune 30, 2011

Amanda Knox, the 23-year-old American college student who was convicted of sexually assaulting and killing her room mate, Meredith Kercher, in Italy in 2007, allegedly after an orgy gone wrong, got good news this week. Independent experts working on her ongoing appeal said that the traces of DNA used to convict Knox may have been contaminated and are “unreliable.”

With the DNA evidence excluded, the only substantiation of Knox’s guilt includes a possibly coerced confession and her bizarre behaviour after being arrested. But could those two things have the same explanation? Is it possible that Knox has an underlying condition — Asperger’s syndrome, a less severe form of autism — that caused both her unusual social behaviour and a gullibility that triggered a false confession?

Knox’s link to Kercher’s murder was always sketchy: for one thing, there was no physical evidence of the orgy that the prosecutor claimed led to the killing. Knox was said to have helped stab her 21-year-old roommate to death when Kercher refused to participate in sex games with Knox’s boyfriend, Raffaele Sollecito, then 23, and Rudy Guede, 20, an African immigrant. No other motive was ever presented.

But Guede’s bloody footprints and hand-prints were found at the scene, his DNA was found in Kercher’s body — and he was a prior robbery suspect known to carry a knife. The simplest and most logical view of the crime would be that Guede alone killed Kercher. And in fact, he was also convicted of the murder.

However, by the time his involvement was discovered, Knox had already confessed after hours of questioning by police, implicating herself and Sollecito. What’s more, her behaviour after her arrest was bizarre and seemed callous.

In a riveting feature story on the case, Rolling Stone writer Nathaniel Rich describes how Knox’s odd actions may have led to her conviction. He writes that while at the police station with Sollecito, she did not act normally:

“Knox and Sollecito would make faces, kiss each other, while there was the body of a friend in those conditions,” said homicide chief Monica Napoleoni.

“I couldn’t help thinking how cool and calm Amanda was,” said Giacomo Silenzi, a neighbour who had been having a fling with Kercher. “Her eyes didn’t seem to show any sadness, and I remember wondering if she could have been involved.”

Officers would later complain that Knox, after sitting for hours in the stiff waiting-room chairs, had started to do cartwheels and even splits. Convinced that she was psychotic, the guards begged her to stop, explaining that such behavior was “inappropriate.” And a detective complained when he saw Knox sitting on her boyfriend’s lap. “Inappropriate,” he said.

Could this be evidence of Asperger’s? In people with the condition, odd emotional reactions and atypical responses to stress are common. Women with autism spectrum disorders tend to be better at appearing socially skilled than men do, which often leaves them undiagnosed.

Valerie Gaus is a psychologist who has worked with hundreds of autistic people and is the author of Living Well on the Spectrum. “Everything I read would be consistent with it and it could be one alternative theory for the behavior that made her seem suspicious,” says Gaus, while stressing that she has not met Knox and cannot diagnose her. “When people on the spectrum become anxious or nervous, they won’t necessarily show it through facial expressions and they may use odd behaviour to regulate anxiety. You might see that in odd gestures or strange tics or body movements. If she did have it, her cartwheels might have been [her way of] trying to regulate overwhelming anxiety.”

Rudy Simone, author of Aspergirls and herself a woman on the autism spectrum, says, “While I’m not a diagnostician and haven’t seen anything on the tapes we’ve all seen that would indicate she has Asperger’s, if she did, theoretically, the kind of behavior she displayed before, during and after her arrest would be in line with the many psychological or neurological differences [that mark] Aspergian behavior.”

Another example of “self-soothing” behavior common to autism could be Knox’s frequent loud singing, which Kercher’s sister told Rolling Stone had been annoying to the victim.

Knox’s lack of social skills, unusual reactions to emotion and lack of concern about appearance — all common in autism spectrum conditions — were clear to everyone who knew her:

“She’s a little dork who doesn’t wear matched socks,” says her best friend, Madison Paxton. …

[Sollecito said]: “I noticed that her opinions on the music were odd. … She didn’t concentrate on the emotions it provoked but only on the rhythm — slow, fast, slow."

And, like many autistic people, Knox was highly intelligent but also extremely naïve and gullible:

“She’s the smartest person you’d ever know” but “dumb as a rock” when it comes to “street sense,” [her stepfather said]. In conversations with her friends and family, a portrait emerges of a person with a childlike innocence. She was, as her mother, Edda, puts it, “oblivious to the dark side of the world.”

“The common term we use is naïve but from a clinical perspective, what can cause that is that people on the spectrum have difficulty with perspective-taking. They have a difficult time thinking about or understanding what another person might be thinking,” says Gaus.

“We just don’t understand other people,” says Simone. “We don’t read faces. Social language is always a second language to us that we’re never particularly fluent in and alongside that is a childlike naivete.”

That can lead to gullibility because if you can’t understand the world from other people’s perspectives, you can’t recognize when they might be trying to manipulate you, or even that such a thing is possible to do. This makes people with Asperger’s particularly prone to false confessions both because they get easily overwhelmed by stress and because they don’t understand the intentions of the police.

“In my own practice, I’ve seen a fair number of young people get in trouble with the law because of naivete,” says Gaus.

Knox’s apparent penchant for casual sex, which was extensively covered by the British tabloids, can also be seen in some women on the autism spectrum. “With females on the spectrum, sometimes promiscuity is a way that you connect and they learn early on that they can get attention for being sexual. That wouldn’t be surprising,” Gaus says.

Notes Simone, “Because of our open demeanour towards others, what we see as friendly is often consider flirtatious and often misread.”

Also, Knox’s utter lack of awareness of her own beauty — detailed in the Rolling Stone story — could be a symptom. Appreciating your own good looks “involves the ability to imagine how others perceive you and people on the spectrum have problems with that,” Gaus says.

Yet another potentially telling characteristic: Knox’s desire for justice, not only for herself but for others. Rich describes how Knox would try to help strangers on the street and how she insisted on staying in Italy to help the police with the case, even after her other room-mates had gotten attorneys and left the country. “A strong need for justice is common,” Gaus says.

Of course, whether or not a formal diagnosis of Asperger’s would help or hurt Knox’s case is hard to say: the stigma associated with autism spectrum disorders might make her seem more suspicious, rather than less, in the eyes of some legal authorities. But Gaus believes that screening her would be appropriate and that it could help her come to terms with what happened. It could ultimately help her have a better future if she is, as seems likely, exonerate


Maia Szalavitz @maiasz

Maia Szalavitz is a neuroscience journalist for TIME.com and co-author of Born for Love: Why Empathy Is Essential — and Endangered.

There were some comments after the article, some supportive and some not so from someone who is anti-Knox

I tried to run this article I found by some fellow Aspies in a facebook group (Those with Asperger Syndrome or high functioning Autism) but some refused to fully read the link, could they be assuming it is lies from a PR campaign?

However I did manage to get hold of a female blogger , who is both a feminist and on the spectrum to read it.

These are here replies by twitter

FeministAspie ‏@FeministAspie Apr 2

@Stickings90 Thanks for sharing - honestly I don't know a whole lot about the case, and it's always difficult to diagnose just based on...

FeministAspie ‏@FeministAspie Apr 2

@Stickings90 ...hearsay, but it certainly gives an insight into behaviours seen by NTs* as weird or guilt-showing that would be normal for us

Since some of the evidence we have cited for Knox's guilt has been her strange behaviour, if she does have an undiagnosed autism spectrum disorder, should that evidence be discounted as it could seen as that is how autism manifests in females as opposed to males?

Does this require us all to re-evaluate this case, or is it a whopping red herring.


* NTs for reference stands for Neuro Typicals, or normal people, not on the spectrum.

[kirklancaster]

A truly brilliant piece of detective work Sticks, but autism does not explain the 6 conflicting alibis Knox and Sollecito gave to the police, or the dozens of lies she has told. Nor does it account for her trying to steer the police to one innocent man, then when he proved he had a cast iron alibi, she falsely accused Lumumba. She even changed her story yet again when she learnt that Sollecito was no longer 'alibiing' her and tried to 'throw him under the bus' and blame him for the murder.

Her various stories of the her visit to the cottage on the morning of the murder are totally ridiculous and would be laughable if it was not for the fact that a young innocent girl was so cruelly slaughtered.

Knox is one devious, cold, calculating moral-less bitch and she has got clean away with not only murdering a normal, decent young girl who had twice the morals she had, but has also actually tried to assassinate poor Meredith's character into the bargain.

Knox, her family, and her supporters make me puke.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

A truly brilliant piece of detective work Sticks, but autism does not explain the 6 conflicting alibis Knox and Sollecito gave to the police, or the dozens of lies she has told. Nor does it account for her trying to steer the police to one innocent man, then when he proved he had a cast iron alibi, she falsely accused Lumumba. She even changed her story yet again when she learnt that Sollecito was no longer 'alibiing' her and tried to 'throw him under the bus' and blame him for the murder.

Her various stories of the her visit to the cottage on the morning of the murder are totally ridiculous and would be laughable if it was not for the fact that a young innocent girl was so cruelly slaughtered.

Knox is one devious, cold, calculating moral-less bitch and she has got clean away with not only murdering a normal, decent young girl who had twice the morals she had, but has also actually tried to assassinate poor Meredith's character into the bargain.

Knox, her family, and her supporters make me puke.

I hope you puke your guts out. You obviously have no knowledge of th case. If you have some evidence of Amanda's or Rafaelles guilt why didn't you give it to the Italian police because they couldn't find any evidence.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by lostalex

I hope you puke your guts out. You obviously have no knowledge of th case. If you have some evidence of Amanda's or Rafaelles guilt why didn't you give it to the Italian police because they couldn't find any evidence.

This is the most preposterous post yet Alex - why don't you read the links and trial transcripts. Perhaps you'd like to debate this point by point in a civil, temperate manner? I'm up for it.

We will both need GENUINE corroborating evidence though Alex to substantiate our contentions.

[Sticks]

@Lostalex what did you make of this female autism angle? - I did kind of come out of left field.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Sticks

@Lostalex what did you make of this female autism angle? - I did kind of come out of left field.

I think it's pure sexist crap, and lawyers grasping for straws.

The idea that a girl not behaving like an emotional wreck means she must have some sort of intellectual disorder just reeks of sexism to me. It makes it sound like they think all girls should be crying and freaking out, because of course girls are very emotional. for a girl not to be overly emotional means that something must be wrong???

Can we all please remember that Amanda had only known meredith for a short time, she was in a brand new country, she was a very VERY young girl in a very far off foreign country.

I got arrested once, spent the night in jail, and i sang to myself. Yes, i was scared and confused, and i SANG outlaid, to myself. It must have sounded very strange if anyone heard me, but it made me feel better in a stressful situation. when you are in a stress mode, yes you do things to comfort yourself. does that mean i did;'t take my arrest seriously? no, i was just trying to get through a very stressful situation. and if i had had my boyfriend with me, i would have kissed and hugged him too. i guess i must be a sociopath and potential murderer based on some people's views of that behavior.

[Gusto Brunt]

'Found not guilty', but still guilty in my and others eyes.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Gusto Brunt

'Found not guilty', but still guilty in my and others eyes.

i think being falsely accused must be one of the most horrific circumstances anyone could find themselves in. especially when you have the notoriously vicious, corrupt, abhorrent British media supporting the false accusations. combine that with the notoriously corrupt, inept Italian justice system, and I can only imagine the hopelessness and frustration Amanda must have been feeling.

[Nedusa]

People...........stop posting on this now....

It is old news..........move on there are more important things going on in the world.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by lostalex

i think being falsely accused must be one of the most horrific circumstances anyone could find themselves in. especially when you have the notoriously vicious, corrupt, abhorrent British media supporting the false accusations. combine that with the notoriously corrupt, inept Italian justice system, and I can only imagine the hopelessness and frustration Amanda must have been feeling.

You're a little bundle of happiness aren't you ??

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

You're a little bundle of happiness aren't you ??

I'm just saying, being in prison must suck, but being in prison when you know you're innocent, must be 100x worse. then add on the hatred of 2 whole countries (UK and Italy). I'm just in awe of how Amanda was able to endure that. She truly is an inspiration.

her case really demonstrates how flawed our society is. our media, our justice systems, it's all just one big lynch mob that can attack anyone at any time. Thank gawd she had such a loving and supportive family to help her through it. most people don't have that kind of support, so they just get forgotten and rot away forever.

[Sticks]

Originally Posted by lostalex

I think it's pure sexist crap, and lawyers grasping for straws.

The idea that a girl not behaving like an emotional wreck means she must have some sort of intellectual disorder just reeks of sexism to me. It makes it sound like they think all girls should be crying and freaking out, because of course girls are very emotional. for a girl not to be overly emotional means that something must be wrong???

@Lostalex, first of all I need to point out, I am diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome, a form of autism. It is a neurological disorder, if that, not an intellectual disorder or a learning disability. I have managed to achieve one Bsc and two MScs. I never thought I had an intellectual disorder because I was on the spectrum

Second, the analysis suggesting that Amanda may be on the spectrum did not come from anyone of her legal team.

Thirdly, if I read the article correctly, it posited that the behaviour, such as a lack of crying and freaking out, that was being used as an indicator of guilt, was actually a reaction to stress of a female who is on the spectrum and should never have been seen as an indicator of guilt. You need to note that autism affects boys one way and girls slightly differently. Female autism is not that well known because the original work was on boys.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by lostalex

I'm just saying, being in prison must suck, but being in prison when you know you're innocent, must be 100x worse. then add on the hatred of 2 whole countries (UK and Italy). I'm just in awe of how Amanda was able to endure that. She truly is an inspiration.

her case really demonstrates how flawed our society is. our media, our justice systems, it's all just one big lynch mob that can attack anyone at any time. Thank gawd she had such a loving and supportive family to help her through it. most people don't have that kind of support, so they just get forgotten and rot away forever.

Fair point Alex..........I was just a bit taken aback by the ferocity of your post.

[letmein]

Anyone who thinks Amanda Knox killed this woman is an idiot who gets all their info from tabloids. There is no way in hell she did it. Italy still lives in the Stone Age where women are *****s not to be trusted. The British media is disgusting.