[lostalex]

I think it's interesting that everyone in this thread is assuming that this kid will end up being bullied, and never for one second thinks that this kid might BE a bully to other kids....

Isn't that interesting?

What does that mean that no one here is worried about this kid becoming a bully, they just assume he will be a victim. and why aren't you more worried about the Bullies, and stopping them, instead of worrying about who will be the victim of bullying?

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Teaching a child that they should repress themselves just so they don't get bullied is horrible though.

We should be trying to alter the behavior of the bullies, not the behavior of the kids that are being bullied.

Don't you agree?

..yeah I do totally Alex, but his gender is male so I don't see that it's repressing him for him to be dressed as male...that's not enforcing anything aggressive or 'macho' on him...

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by lostalex

but boys and girls, especially at the ages BEFORE puberty, have no differences. it is all influence. And don't you think it can be damaging to teach boys that they SHOULD be aggressive and violent. Telling boys that being aggressive is part of being a boy, and if you are not aggressive you aren't a "real man".... You don't see how that can be damaging? really?

Who is teaching their male children to be aggressive and violent? Were you raised in a gladiator arena or something?

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..yeah I do totally Alex, but his gender is male so I don't see that it's repressing him for him to be dressed as male...that's not enforcing anything aggressive or 'macho' on him...

but there is no such thing as "dressing as a male"...

no one complains when a girl wears jeans or boots.

Youtube video

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Kyle

Who is teaching their male children to be aggressive and violent? Were you raised in a gladiator arena or something?

i don't have the time to explain that if you don't understand, you obviously have no cultural awareness of the pressure placed on boys.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by lostalex

but there is no such thing as "dressing as a male"...

no one complains when a girl wears jeans or boots.

Youtube video

..but at that young age, there is what your peers are wearing as a boy or a girl..that doesn't determine anything else about your character or sexuality etc but it does help children to 'fit in' and when I say fit in, I mean in a sense that their parents aren't trying to encourage something that would make them vulnerable to being bullied and being terribly unhappy...because surely that would be selfish..

[Kate!]

Originally Posted by lostalex

i don't have the time to explain that if you don't understand, you obviously have no cultural awareness of the pressure placed on boys.

Bit patronising?

My view, these parents are actively fostering confusion in this child. It'd be all well and good that if your child showed signs of WANTING to dress in clothes usually worn by the other sex/play with toys that differed from gender stereotypes etc THEN you let them exercise that right. But not actively introduce it and promote it. I find it quite odd.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by lostalex

i don't have the time to explain that if you don't understand, you obviously have no cultural awareness of the pressure placed on boys.

Because there wasn't one. Since birth till this very day I have not had one item of clothing, toy or piece of advice from my father that suggested to me I should disrespect women, rape them and beat them and assault people for no other reason than to assert some sort of primal superiority.

If a boy is brought up with any of those impressions in his mind it's most likely down to negligible parenting.

Good parents are good parents, and bad parents are bad parents. I applaud the attitude of the parents, because they are obviously looking at this as a way to teach tolerance and understanding to their infant. However, raising your child as gender neutral will probably have no impact on this, but the love, teaching and boundaries they set up for him will.

They could dress him in nothing but military fatigues up until his teenage years, but teach him the right from wrong, and he'll be equally well rounded.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by *Kate*

Bit patronising?

My view, these parents are actively fostering confusion in this child. It'd be all well and good that if your child showed signs of WANTING to dress in clothes usually worn by the other sex/play with toys that differed from gender stereotypes etc THEN you let them exercise that right. But not actively introduce it and promote it. I find it quite odd.

This tbh.

I made a long winded post about this earlier but abandoned it because I wasn't a parent so I had no authority on how to bring up a child.

[Kazanne]

He surely will be confused,also teased as he gets older,while it may be an 'interesting' experiment we are not the one being used for it,why cant kids just be boys and girls without interference,if they are parented in a good and fair way,they will hopefully grow up to be decent human beings,let them play with whatever toys they want to,but dressing him as a girl is too far imo.

[Ammi]

..I do think that Alex makes some good points and I can totally see where he is coming from...but I also think that in trying to encourage a more 'open-minded/tolerant' etc child...they've got it a bit wrong in terms of it being about clothes and are not thinking enough about other areas of his young life and school life that this could have a very serious and unhappy effect on...they're just kind of focusing on it all in the wrong way imo...

[T*]

Originally Posted by Benjamin

I don't see the big issue here. Everybody has different ways of parenting, and that is their choice; whether people believe it to be incorrect or not their opinion really doesn't mean too much, especially considering how often the "best" ways to raise your children change all the time (half the time contradicting the "best" ways in time gone by).

Totally agree with Ben here, it's not a big issue at all.

[Kyle]

It's almost as if these parents seem to think that the only reason boys don't play with girls toys and wear girls clothes is because of a fear of being mocked. I'm sure there are a small minority of boys who would get pleasure out of playing with Barbie or my little pony and wearing a pink tutu but I don't think the vast majority would be interested and that's why I don't think everybody should be subjected to it so early.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Jesus.

Good parents are good parents, and bad parents are bad parents. I applaud the attitude of the parents, because they are obviously looking at this as a way to teach tolerance and understanding to their infant. However, raising your child as gender neutral will probably have no impact on this, but the love, teaching and boundaries they set up for him will.

They could dress him in nothing but military fatigues up until his teenage years, but teach him the right from wrong, and he'll be equally well rounded.

perfect post. 5 stars.

I can't explain it any better so i'll stop trying.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by *Kate*

Bit patronising?

My view, these parents are actively fostering confusion in this child. It'd be all well and good that if your child showed signs of WANTING to dress in clothes usually worn by the other sex/play with toys that differed from gender stereotypes etc THEN you let them exercise that right. But not actively introduce it and promote it. I find it quite odd.

i reject the idea that giving a child more freedom = confusion. what if you just let him/her decide for themselves. I think all children are confused all the time, that is part of childhood. You don't understand because you don't know, therefore you are confused.

Believe it or not, i was a child once too.

[AnnieK]

The only thing that confuses me is that they are actively creating a divide between the sexes. If in the morning he is a boy and plays with boys toys and wears boys clothes and then in the afternoon he is dressed as a girl and plays with girls toys they are highlighting the difference between the sexes. Surely to promote gender neutral behaviour he should be dressed in gender neutral clothes with access to both boys and girls clothes at all times?

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

The only thing that confuses me is that they are actively creating a divide between the sexes. If in the morning he is a boy and plays with boys toys and wears boys clothes and then in the afternoon he is dressed as a girl and plays with girls toys they are highlighting the difference between the sexes. Surely to promote gender neutral behaviour he should be dressed in gender neutral clothes with access to both boys and girls clothes at all times?

I agree, I noticed that too. The idea that there are certain times to be a "boy" and certain time to be a "girl"... i didn't understand that either. It's totally contradictory to the idea of gender neutrality that they claim to be embracing.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Ammi

Youtube video

Why are they doing it



It Stinks

I think Arista was raised under gender neutral parenting. That's why he's so effeminate.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

The only thing that confuses me is that they are actively creating a divide between the sexes. If in the morning he is a boy and plays with boys toys and wears boys clothes and then in the afternoon he is dressed as a girl and plays with girls toys they are highlighting the difference between the sexes. Surely to promote gender neutral behaviour he should be dressed in gender neutral clothes with access to both boys and girls clothes at all times?

Yeah, I agree with that

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by arista

Why are they doing it



It Stinks

..I think somehow they have good intentions but I personally think that their focus is all wrong...

[Kate!]

Originally Posted by lostalex

i reject the idea that giving a child more freedom = confusion. what if you just let him/her decide for themselves. I think all children are confused all the time, that is part of childhood. You don't understand because you don't know, therefore you are confused.

Believe it or not, i was a child once too.

But my post IS advocating letting them have freedom to decide for themselves and support whatever inclinations a child may naturally have? What these parents are doing is imposing set times for their child to be encouraged to be masculine and set times to be feminine. I find it very odd.

[Nedusa]

I can kinda see the point Alex is making...he is saying aggressive gender sterotyping of youngsters into adopting the roles society has established on them can be damaging to them as for the male stereotype this would involve encouragement of negative qualities such as aggression and machoness.

But nature will assert these roles to these children anyway by virtue of the amounts of testosterone and oestrogen they have. We as parents have to be able to allow their gender development within acceptable limits, allow them to dress as their gender dictates but I agree we should not try and encourage the worst excesses of gender behaviour in them.

As parents we want the very best for our children male or female and as long as we teach them properly and give them plenty of love they should be well adjusted enough to embrace their gender but not develop the more extreme traits like misogyny and misandry eg....

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by *Kate*

But my post IS advocating letting them have freedom to decide for themselves and support whatever inclinations a child may naturally have? What these parents are doing is imposing set times for their child to be encouraged to be masculine and set times to be feminine. I find it very odd.

oh well i agree, what these parents are doing, with the set times for being a "male" and then being a "female" i agree that's just bizarre. They seem to be reinforcing gender stereotypes just as much as any other parents by doing that.

I was just speaking generally, and making a broader point.