[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

No sorry, don't agree.... Islam by its very nature has violence enshrined at its core. It promote murder for a wide variety of issues including homosexuality and adultery plus if you try to leave this faith one that your parents signed you up for , again the sentence is death.

These rules won't change in 50,100 or 500 years.

Islam in its very nature is not a peace loving religion by any means .





.

I disagree and 500 hundred years ago it would be absolutely unthinkable that people would be free to be publicly blasphemous, utterly reject Christianity, be openly gay, be in adulterous relationships etc. I disagree with the whole concept of 'modernising' because it implies we were always consciously treading the path that took us to where we are today - we weren't. Remember that in Islam's early years it was responsible for some of the greatest scientific, economic and cultural advancements in history, the way the Islamic world is today is not how it's always been and it's now how it always will be.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Islam is just christianity more suited to the middle east and christianity is islam more suited to the west

both a patently ridiculous and just another way of humans seeking to feel important

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Islam is just christianity more suited to the middle east and christianity is islam more suited to the west

both a patently ridiculous and just another way of humans seeking to feel important

100% agree. I have to shake my head when anyone implies Christianity is good and Islam is evil. People have killed in the name of both religions they are as bad as each other IMO.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I disagree and 500 hundred years ago it would be absolutely unthinkable that people would be free to be publicly blasphemous, utterly reject Christianity, be openly gay, be in adulterous relationships etc. I disagree with the whole concept of 'modernising' because it implies we were always consciously treading the path that took us to where we are today - we weren't. Remember that in Islam's early years it was responsible for some of the greatest scientific, economic and cultural advancements in history, the way the Islamic world is today is not how it's always been and it's now how it always will be.

No............I don't think so, Christianity at it's core is peaceful, loving, tolerant, forgiving religion.

It may be that 500 years ago it was hijacked for political ends to steal lands and plunder vast riches from backward native peoples.

It may also have been hijacked by a small minority who warped it to suit their own evil agenda's ie the purge against "witches" and other acts of puritannical savagery.

But at it's heart the Gospels tell a story of love and forgiveness that is the whole point of Christianity it is the only way humans can live and evolve together. Gay and Lesbian acceptance together with divorce and abortion are still big issues with the Roman Catholic/Catholic Churches but you are not condemned to death as you would be as a muslim.

Islam is very much a dark, intolerant, do as I say or face the consequences type of religion, very old testament and more suited to controlling people and forcing them to comply or else.

There is no compassion just the end of a sword and this is the mainstream Saudi Arabian or Iranian versions of the faith. Even leaving the radical extremist elements out of the argument it is still a very unpleasant cult to be forced upon children who have the unfortunate luck to be born into a Muslim family.

They are effectively trapped upon pain of death should they seek to exercise free will and decide their own fate.

It is without doubt the most ghastly organised Cult masquerading as a religion and it needs to undergo serious change if it wants to change the views of myself and Billions of people like me worldwide.

It is simply unacceptable in its present form and has no place in the civilised modern world.






.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Have you ever been to Ireland?

yes a nation torn apart by the monarchy and a potato famine and the religion was used as a weapon to destroy them and have them warring amongst themselves...divide and conquer is the oldest trick in the monarchy play book.......forget ye not its the fat greedy king of England who burn down all the catholic churches in the first place and burned anyone who stood in his way because he wanted a to shag more women

[the truth]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Islam is just christianity more suited to the middle east and christianity is islam more suited to the west

both a patently ridiculous and just another way of humans seeking to feel important

complete and utter drivel im embarrassed for you

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

No............I don't think so, Christianity at it's core is peaceful, loving, tolerant, forgiving religion.

It may be that 500 years ago it was hijacked for political ends to steal lands and plunder vast riches from backward native peoples.

It may also have been hijacked by a small minority who warped it to suit their own evil agenda's ie the purge against "witches" and other acts of puritannical savagery.

But at it's heart the Gospels tell a story of love and forgiveness that is the whole point of Christianity it is the only way humans can live and evolve together. Gay and Lesbian acceptance together with divorce and abortion are still big issues with the Roman Catholic/Catholic Churches but you are not condemned to death as you would be as a muslim.

Islam is very much a dark, intolerant, do as I say or face the consequences type of religion, very old testament and more suited to controlling people and forcing them to comply or else.

There is no compassion just the end of a sword and this is the mainstream Saudi Arabian or Iranian versions of the faith. Even leaving the radical extremist elements out of the argument it is still a very unpleasant cult to be forced upon children who have the unfortunate luck to be born into a Muslim family.

They are effectively trapped upon pain of death should they seek to exercise free will and decide their own fate.

It is without doubt the most ghastly organised Cult masquerading as a religion and it needs to undergo serious change if it wants to change the views of myself and Billions of people like me worldwide.

It is simply unacceptable in its present form and has no place in the civilised modern world.






.

Christinaity and islam are totally opposite ends of the spectrum I agree...Judaism is also a harsh unforgiving religion

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

No............I don't think so, Christianity at it's core is peaceful, loving, tolerant, forgiving religion.

It may be that 500 years ago it was hijacked for political ends to steal lands and plunder vast riches from backward native peoples.

It may also have been hijacked by a small minority who warped it to suit their own evil agenda's ie the purge against "witches" and other acts of puritannical savagery.

But at it's heart the Gospels tell a story of love and forgiveness that is the whole point of Christianity it is the only way humans can live and evolve together. Gay and Lesbian acceptance together with divorce and abortion are still big issues with the Roman Catholic/Catholic Churches but you are not condemned to death as you would be as a muslim.

Islam is very much a dark, intolerant, do as I say or face the consequences type of religion, very old testament and more suited to controlling people and forcing them to comply or else.

There is no compassion just the end of a sword and this is the mainstream Saudi Arabian or Iranian versions of the faith. Even leaving the radical extremist elements out of the argument it is still a very unpleasant cult to be forced upon children who have the unfortunate luck to be born into a Muslim family.

They are effectively trapped upon pain of death should they seek to exercise free will and decide their own fate.

It is without doubt the most ghastly organised Cult masquerading as a religion and it needs to undergo serious change if it wants to change the views of myself and Billions of people like me worldwide.

It is simply unacceptable in its present form and has no place in the civilised modern world.






.

Honestly I don't feel that Christianity was ever hijacked. We like to think these days that religion was just used as an excuse for bad people to do bad things - it wasn't. Their actions were directly linked to their beliefs, they were motivated just as much by genuine religious zeal as they were for any money or land. It's hard for us to appreciate today in a time where we are pretty indifferent to religion, where for most of us it doesn't impact our lives or our decisions, but it did used to. Most of those who fought Europe's wars of religion were completely confident that God was on their side, that they were justified in massacring the other side because they had forsaken true religion. I'm not talking about oppressing backwards people or targeting a few witches, the whole of Europe tore itself apart over their differing interpretations of Christianity. Sorry if that doesn't fit the happy clappy, love thy neighbour aspect of Christianity but it's true, and where they needed biblical justification for their violence they found it, and were better acquainted with the Bible and the history of Christianity than you or I.

[InOne]

I wonder how big the End Timers in America are these days.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Honestly I don't feel that Christianity was ever hijacked. We like to think these days that religion was just used as an excuse for bad people to do bad things - it wasn't. Their actions were directly linked to their beliefs, they were motivated just as much by genuine religious zeal as they were for any money or land. It's hard for us to appreciate today in a time where we are pretty indifferent to religion, where for most of us it doesn't impact our lives or our decisions, but it did used to. Most of those who fought Europe's wars of religion were completely confident that God was on their side, that they were justified in massacring the other side because they had forsaken true religion. I'm not talking about oppressing backwards people or targeting a few witches, the whole of Europe tore itself apart over their differing interpretations of Christianity. Sorry if that doesn't fit the happy clappy, love thy neighbour aspect of Christianity but it's true, and where they needed biblical justification for their violence they found it, and were better acquainted with the Bible and the history of Christianity than you or I.

the monarchy are greedy mass murderers and would always find justification for their lust for more power and greed...perverting Christs wonderful words are just one of the weapons they pervert, ultimately though its about greed and power for land control wealth resources knowledge...blaming the magnificent teachings of Christ for the mass murderers in the palace is as absurd as blaming you and me for the black death in 1666....these are greedy evil people. irrelevant to the words of Christ

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Honestly I don't feel that Christianity was ever hijacked. We like to think these days that religion was just used as an excuse for bad people to do bad things - it wasn't. Their actions were directly linked to their beliefs, they were motivated just as much by genuine religious zeal as they were for any money or land. It's hard for us to appreciate today in a time where we are pretty indifferent to religion, where for most of us it doesn't impact our lives or our decisions, but it did used to. Most of those who fought Europe's wars of religion were completely confident that God was on their side, that they were justified in massacring the other side because they had forsaken true religion. I'm not talking about oppressing backwards people or targeting a few witches, the whole of Europe tore itself apart over their differing interpretations of Christianity. Sorry if that doesn't fit the happy clappy, love thy neighbour aspect of Christianity but it's true, and where they needed biblical justification for their violence they found it, and were better acquainted with the Bible and the history of Christianity than you or I.

Christian logic

Muslims kill - well they're savages aren't they, killing is all right there in the their holy books. What do you expect?

Christians kill - not true Christians. Obviously didn't interpret the bible properly like my true sect does. Influenced by Satan or probably secularists.

[Headie]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Poor Obama his gonna get massacred for this.

I do agree with him that Christianity aren't saints either, but Islam is becoming a worldwide problem, they don't accept other peoples way of life, and to convert them some of them think it's okay to bomb people, torture people, and other violent acts, then some of the less extreme ones try to force anybody outside of the Religion to convert into being a Muslim if you want to be with the parents child.

Then of course you've got your moderate and sane Muslims, and they're the ones that can try and change this from within as they won't listen to the UK, USA, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, most of India, China, Mayanmar/Burma, Japan, and a lot of other countries, but if anyone is gonna change that nutball of a Religion it is the moderates.

There is so much wrong with this post I'm not even gonna waste my time on it

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Hayden

There is so much wrong with this post I'm not even gonna waste my time on it

Go on.....give it your best shot , After all no point just posting to say you are not going to post.








.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kyle

Christian logic

Muslims kill - well they're savages aren't they, killing is all right there in the their holy books. What do you expect?

Christians kill - not true Christians. Obviously didn't interpret the bible properly like my true sect does. Influenced by Satan or probably secularists.

utter lies and drivel........have Christians called a fatwa on every infidel who doesn't believe in Christ? Did Jesus teach that kind of hate? im ashamed for you

[the truth]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

100% agree. I have to shake my head when anyone implies Christianity is good and Islam is evil. People have killed in the name of both religions they are as bad as each other IMO.

people have killed in the name of anything ...science power science war famine hunger greed wealth oil land....you don't blame the oil or the land for war just as you shouldn't blame Jesus wonderful teachings....its evil people doing evil things...if there was no religion these people would still do evil things ...they did before religion and they will after it....to blame the best religion of all Christianity is frankly insane

[Ninastar]

Kind of stupid the place and time he said it, but I guess if he's saying that all religions have had their issued, it's a fair enough comment.

However, acting like these issues going on right now with Islam right now is no big deal lols, and that it will sort itself out is just as bad as not doing anything at all.

Yes, there have been issues with other religions in the past, but right NOW the main issue is the islamic terrorists. People like to act like they aren't so much a threat, but do you not think that over the last few years, there's been a massive increase in terrorism worldwide? How many places are on red alert right now? Just because we don't see it everyday, doesn't mean that there is nothing going on right this minute.

People saying that 'all religions have had their problems!!11111' makes sense, but that's irrelevant, considering what's going on right now. Yes, most muslims are nice and won't blow you up, blah blah blah, but there is still a portion who would.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Chaos

Kind of stupid the place and time he said it, but I guess if he's saying that all religions have had their issued, it's a fair enough comment.

However, acting like these issues going on right now with Islam right now is no big deal lols, and that it will sort itself out is just as bad as not doing anything at all.

Yes, there have been issues with other religions in the past, but right NOW the main issue is the islamic terrorists. People like to act like they aren't so much a threat, but do you not think that over the last few years, there's been a massive increase in terrorism worldwide? How many places are on red alert right now? Just because we don't see it everyday, doesn't mean that there is nothing going on right this minute.

People saying that 'all religions have had their problems!!11111' makes sense, but that's irrelevant, considering what's going on right now. Yes, most muslims are nice and won't blow you up, blah blah blah, but there is still a portion who would.

IMO the fact that it is happening now with Islam makes the history of Christianity more relevant, it allows us to better understand Islamic extremism instead of treating it as something completely different and alien to our own past. I'm not even saying that to try and hate on Christianity or to try and defend Islam either, I just think it's all worth bearing in mind. It's not even all necessarily about the bad things that have been done in Christianity's name, it's more about the mindset of having such a strong religious zeal that it guides - and is used to justify - everything you do. I know a lot of people like to say that IS/Al Qaeda etc. aren't real Muslims, don't really care about Islam, just use it as an excuse etc. but I don't really agree with that. It might be the case for a lot of them that they are just on a power trip, but we shouldn't separate their religion from their cause any more than we should separate Christianity from the Inquisition, the wars of religion etc.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by MTVN

IMO the fact that it is happening now with Islam makes the history of Christianity more relevant, it allows us to better understand Islamic extremism instead of treating it as something completely different and alien to our own past. I'm not even saying that to try and hate on Christianity or to try and defend Islam either, I just think it's all worth bearing in mind. It's not even all necessarily about the bad things that have been done in Christianity's name, it's more about the mindset of having such a strong religious zeal that it guides - and is used to justify - everything you do. I know a lot of people like to say that IS/Al Qaeda etc. aren't real Muslims, don't really care about Islam, just use it as an excuse etc. but I don't really agree with that. It might be the case for a lot of them that they are just on a power trip, but we shouldn't separate their religion from their cause any more than we should separate Christianity from the Inquisition, the wars of religion etc.

this is all done in the name of islam. its a massive problem now worldwide...obamas intentions are generally good , hes trying to take the sting out of it all but but his speech and timing was awful here....he might as well talk about the queen of England being responsible for the endless wars...its ancient history. this radical islam is here and now and its worldwide

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Chaos

Kind of stupid the place and time he said it, but I guess if he's saying that all religions have had their issued, it's a fair enough comment.

However, acting like these issues going on right now with Islam right now is no big deal lols, and that it will sort itself out is just as bad as not doing anything at all.

Yes, there have been issues with other religions in the past, but right NOW the main issue is the islamic terrorists. People like to act like they aren't so much a threat, but do you not think that over the last few years, there's been a massive increase in terrorism worldwide? How many places are on red alert right now? Just because we don't see it everyday, doesn't mean that there is nothing going on right this minute.

People saying that 'all religions have had their problems!!11111' makes sense, but that's irrelevant, considering what's going on right now. Yes, most muslims are nice and won't blow you up, blah blah blah, but there is still a portion who would.

spot on , glad you saw past the apologists

[VanessaFeltz.]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Turkey does seem like it's the head country for moderate Muslims though, hopefully other Muslim countries will follow their lead someday.

Turkey can do amazing things to lead other muslim countries however Turkey has lots of problems inside because of this goverment. Between 1. world and 2. world war turkey proved they could do amazing things and i hope it will fix itself and do good things again.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Chaos

Kind of stupid the place and time he said it, but I guess if he's saying that all religions have had their issued, it's a fair enough comment.

However, acting like these issues going on right now with Islam right now is no big deal lols, and that it will sort itself out is just as bad as not doing anything at all.

Yes, there have been issues with other religions in the past, but right NOW the main issue is the islamic terrorists. People like to act like they aren't so much a threat, but do you not think that over the last few years, there's been a massive increase in terrorism worldwide? How many places are on red alert right now? Just because we don't see it everyday, doesn't mean that there is nothing going on right this minute.

People saying that 'all religions have had their problems!!11111' makes sense, but that's irrelevant, considering what's going on right now. Yes, most muslims are nice and won't blow you up, blah blah blah, but there is still a portion who would.

That's only the case if you're saying "Christians and Muslims are the same in many ways" as a way of lessening the blame on Islam / making it seem like it's OK because "one day they'll be fine". That's not my stance at all though. Rather, I think that religion itself is to blame. I lump all of them together and am perfectly comfortable doing so... And pointing out how similar other religions have been in the past is more of a justification for this action of combining, and condemning, all religion.

Do you really, honestly think that it's impossible that Christianity will ever cycle back around to violent action? What if rather than having moved past it, Christianity is simply not in a "violent phase" right now? It might well be again in a few hundred years after the inevitable downfall of Western capitalism. Christian terrorist organisations are by no means outside of the realms of realistic possibility. There are a few, albeit small, examples of such in the world already. In recent history there have been obvious examples :what were the KKK, if not white Christian terrorists?

To state that all of Christianity has now moved beyond that, and will never go back there, is nonsense.

Why is it nonsense? Because people with irrational beliefs are prone to doing irrational things. Anyone who can take a step back from religious belief and take a good look at it can appreciate that every last one of them is a "loopy cult", and that the malleable nature of religious dogma means that anyone devoutly religious - in any religion - is inherently unpredictable and dangerous.

6 million (!!!) people turned up in a park to see the Pope recently. A huge percentage of those will have been very passionate Christians. Are we expected to believe that, if the Vatican and the Pope were to suddenly demand that they take up arms against (whoever), huge numbers of those people wouldn't willingly, even happily, do so in the name of their religion (Christianity)? Of course they would. Many of those people would blindly follow the Pope into whatever jihad he could dream up. Just as dangerous as any Muslim following any mad cleric.

He hasn't done so but it's just an example of how any religion can be used for violent means. IF he wanted to, IF he suddenly snapped or IF other political forces somehow took covert control of the Vatican, that one man could turn millions of those "peaceful christians" into remorseless killers over night. I guarantee it.

[sassysocks]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That's only the case if you're saying "Christians and Muslims are the same in many ways" as a way of lessening the blame on Islam / making it seem like it's OK because "one day they'll be fine". That's not my stance at all though. Rather, I think that religion itself is to blame. I lump all of them together and am perfectly comfortable doing so... And pointing out how similar other religions have been in the past is more of a justification for this action of combining, and condemning, all religion.

Do you really, honestly think that it's impossible that Christianity will ever cycle back around to violent action? What if rather than having moved past it, Christianity is simply not in a "violent phase" right now? It might well be again in a few hundred years after the inevitable downfall of Western capitalism. Christian terrorist organisations are by no means outside of the realms of realistic possibility. There are a few, albeit small, examples of such in the world already. In recent history there have been obvious examples :what were the KKK, if not white Christian terrorists?

To state that all of Christianity has now moved beyond that, and will never go back there, is nonsense.

Why is it nonsense? Because people with irrational beliefs are prone to doing irrational things. Anyone who can take a step back from religious belief and take a good look at it can appreciate that every last one of them is a "loopy cult", and that the malleable nature of religious dogma means that anyone devoutly religious - in any religion - is inherently unpredictable and dangerous.

6 million (!!!) people turned up in a park to see the Pope recently. A huge percentage of those will have been very passionate Christians. Are we expected to believe that, if the Vatican and the Pope were to suddenly demand that they take up arms against (whoever), huge numbers of those people wouldn't willingly, even happily, do so in the name of their religion (Christianity)? Of course they would. Many of those people would blindly follow the Pope into whatever jihad he could dream up. Just as dangerous as any Muslim following any mad cleric.

He hasn't done so but it's just an example of how any religion can be used for violent means. IF he wanted to, IF he suddenly snapped or IF other political forces somehow took covert control of the Vatican, that one man could turn millions of those "peaceful christians" into remorseless killers over night. I guarantee it.

Pure conjecture full of what, ifs and buts. Islam is a problem now which is what we need to focus on, not what others might do one day.

[DemolitionRed]

I wish we had a like button on here. I would be clicking on it for both MTVN & Dezzy.

[Kyle]

Originally Posted by the truth

utter lies and drivel........have Christians called a fatwa on every infidel who doesn't believe in Christ? Did Jesus teach that kind of hate? im ashamed for you

Coming from a religion that has as chequered a past as Christianity does I'm rather surprised you have the cheek to point the finger at another, regardless of how hard it tries to rack up a higher kill count than yours did.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

I wish we had a like button on here. I would be clicking on it for both MTVN & Dezzy.

Same.