[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

No. Disgusting self-serving Jeremy Hunt. He could easily raise the top rate of tax by say, 2%, to pay for many aspects that are being cut under current plans.. but he knows that his party is funded by very rich individuals and he doesn't want to upset them so he continues his austerity programme even though it is proven to have a negative impact on working people while also raising unemployment and thus hindering growth.

We have a right to strike when an employer treats us unfairly in this country, and the junior doctors are exercising that right. We must support them.

Well said again and in my opinion 100% correct as well.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

Seek alternative employment such as what, private company-owned hospitals? Can you imagine the atrocity if every junior doctor did that.. the NHS would be driven to destruction. We cannot ignore them, for the sake of future generations' health especially those on lower incomes.

Their demands are not unreasonable. Jeremy Hunt is doing another magic trick by raising their pay by 11% while at the same time, docking pay for overtime and non-social hours, as well as night shifts. Their conditions are essentially the same thing rebranded. The whole purpose of this is so the right-wing press can portray the trade unions in a negative light yet again because of strikes, and the reason for these strikes is the government. So if you're going to blame anyone for inconveniences and disruption, it's Hunt who the anger should be aimed at.

Everyone has a choice. They can go into other work that pays more money if that is what floats their boat. The point is there are choices, and the government are entitled to set out the terms under which employment is offered to those they are paying for.

The doctors won't win this one, and I am fully backing the government in bringing this mess under control.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Everyone has a choice. They can go into other work that pays more money if that is what floats their boat. The point is there are choices, and the government are entitled to set out the terms under which employment is offered to those they are paying for.

The doctors won't win this one, and I am fully backing the government in bringing this mess under control.

me too...under this plan 1) junior doctors and doctors work LESS hours a week 2) get paid more and 3) 10,000s more lives will be saved

end of

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

me too...under this plan 1) junior doctors and doctors work LESS hours a week 2) get paid more and 3) 10,000s more lives will be saved

end of

How... without recruitment of more doctors how is this possible, where in the 22 non negotiable conditions did it say they would work less and be paid more?

It's people with no working rights who suggest nobody else have them, why should they have what I don't...it's not fair, take them away immediately!
Or those who feel they are untouchable, which of course nobody is with this govt, as soon as their professions are affected we'll see a sharp change.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

How... without recruitment of more doctors how is this possible, where in the 22 non negotiable conditions did it say they would work less and be paid more?

It's people with no working rights who suggest nobody else have them, why should they have what I don't...it's not fair, take them away immediately!
Or those who feel they are untouchable, which of course nobody is with this govt, as soon as their professions are affected we'll see a sharp change.

How? its simple maths, they work less hours as the shift patterns are staggered across 7 days.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

How? its simple maths, they work less hours as the shift patterns are staggered across 7 days.

they are stretched as it is... how can they be stretched any further, by expecting them to work 15hrs on basic pay instead of 12 and weekends too?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

No. Disgusting self-serving Jeremy Hunt. He could easily raise the top rate of tax by say, 2%, to pay for many aspects that are being cut under current plans.. but he knows that his party is funded by very rich individuals and he doesn't want to upset them so he continues his austerity programme even though it is proven to have a negative impact on working people while also raising unemployment and thus hindering growth.

We have a right to strike when an employer treats us unfairly in this country, and the junior doctors are exercising that right. We must support them.

An excellent post. I think that raising the top rate of tax is THE most sensible solution to this country's problems. I do not believe in 'soaking the rich' because it does NOT work, but there is a 'tipping point' at which it becomes an obscenity for the really high income earners to enjoy lenient taxation when two thirds of the population have now NO disposable income left from their hard-earned pay after paying living expenses for living frugally.

A lot of the top earners not only have massive incomes in their own right but enjoy huge fortunes in Inherited Wealth on top of which they add to by being able to save because there are only so many houses, luxury goods, and other trappings even the most extravagant of wealthy people can own, then that high income is virtually all 'disposable' after living expenses.

The super rich, benefit also because they can afford to pay highly skilled accountants to handle their income, saved wealth, and investments to keep as much of it out of the taxman's hands as possible.

I remember one year when I was young and working 60 hours + per work (saving for a deposit for a house purchase) I paid MORE income tax, than HM The Queen (Ł4 Billion net worth) and her pal Lord Vestey who had a million plus income and over Ł700 million net worth at the time.

ALL governments in the UK have always paid 'Lip Service' to true equity when it comes to its citizens - usually doing enough to satisfy the 'working classes' whilst still favouring the 'elite' - but there comes a point where pandering to GREED by increasing NEED is what the abhorrent Edward Heath in one of his more 'decent' moments, called 'The Unacceptable Face of Capitalism'.

I see no reason why Junior Doctors, Nurses, Surgeons, Policemen or the Military - among others - should not be fairly renumerated for their jobs and overtime worked and no reason why they should be emotionally blackmailed and have their conscience pricked just because they are in 'Public Service' professions.

Vocation or no Vocation - they all still have to eat and live.

[Niamh.]

Well said Kirk

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Well said Kirk

Thanks Niamh.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Everyone has a choice. They can go into other work that pays more money if that is what floats their boat. The point is there are choices, and the government are entitled to set out the terms under which employment is offered to those they are paying for.

The doctors won't win this one, and I am fully backing the government in bringing this mess under control.

They will…The GMC are presently receiving around 700 new applications a day from student doctors wishing to transfer overseas. They normally get around 20 a day. This means our best A level student who graduate from 5-6 years of gruelling study to get their medical degrees and who now face a further four years of being a junior doctor whilst paying back their tuition and indemnity fees, will likely choose a better alternative.

[AProducer'sWetDream]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I see no reason why Junior Doctors, Nurses, Surgeons, Policemen or the Military - among others - should not be fairly renumerated for their jobs and overtime worked and no reason why they should be emotionally blackmailed and have their conscience pricked just because they are in 'Public Service' professions.

Vocation or no Vocation - they all still have to eat and live.

I couldn't agree more Kirk- people expect public sector workers just to lay down and take whatever is thrown at them. I expect people will complain about the lives that are lost due to overworked and tired doctors making mistakes- "the negligent, incompetent b*st*rds!".

[Denver]

It does make me sick how Footballers get up to 300k a week and people that deserve the money get pretty much Feck all

[Gusto Brunt]

Who else thinks that Jeremy Hunt looks like Norman Bates?

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Gusto Brunt

Who else thinks that Jeremy Hunt looks like Norman Bates?

Who is Norman Bates anyway?

[AnnieK]

I very rarely agree with strike action but on this occasion it does seem to be the only option to make Hunt sit and think. If the terms of employment set out mean more junior doctors leave the profession, what then? Also I would much prefer a well rested doc tending to me and mine rather than one who may resort to self medicating to make it through a shift or has worked to the point of exhaustion. No one functions well under those circumstances and should a doctor be treating a patient mistakes can and will cost lives

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I very rarely agree with strike action but on this occasion it does seem to be the only option to make Hunt sit and think. If the terms of employment set out mean more junior doctors leave the profession, what then? Also I would much prefer a well rested doc tending to me and mine rather than one who may resort to self medicating to make it through a shift or has worked to the point of exhaustion. No one functions well under those circumstances and should a doctor be treating a patient mistakes can and will cost lives

Exactly^
If my dad was rushed to the emergency room with a ruptured bowl, I'd want an alert doctor to deal with him, not an exhausted one.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Exactly^
If my dad was rushed to the emergency room with a ruptured bowel, I'd want an alert doctor to deal with him, not an exhausted one.

Edited because my grammar and spelling is always a mess!

[the truth]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

They will…The GMC are presently receiving around 700 new applications a day from student doctors wishing to transfer overseas. They normally get around 20 a day. This means our best A level student who graduate from 5-6 years of gruelling study to get their medical degrees and who now face a further four years of being a junior doctor whilst paying back their tuition and indemnity fees, will likely choose a better alternative.

good. if that's where the heartless mercenaries want to go....thankfully they have to pay back their tuition fees

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Adam.

Who is Norman Bates anyway?

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

they are stretched as it is... how can they be stretched any further, by expecting them to work 15hrs on basic pay instead of 12 and weekends too?

thy are now working less hours an the weekends are shared. 10000s more lives will now be saved and over time will not be paid. that's what I call a moral result.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Exactly^
If my dad was rushed to the emergency room with a ruptured bowl, I'd want an alert doctor to deal with him, not an exhausted one.

on weekends under labour, you get no doctor in many parts

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

I very rarely agree with strike action but on this occasion it does seem to be the only option to make Hunt sit and think. If the terms of employment set out mean more junior doctors leave the profession, what then? Also I would much prefer a well rested doc tending to me and mine rather than one who may resort to self medicating to make it through a shift or has worked to the point of exhaustion. No one functions well under those circumstances and should a doctor be treating a patient mistakes can and will cost lives

Hi AnnieK, great post, so good to see so many realising the govt is trying to pull a fast one here and that the junior Doctors have a real case.
Even the Consultants are backing them and that does not come easily believe me.
Hunt has made a massive mess of the whole thing and all he can do is threaten to impose the deal if they don't accept it voluntarily.
What arrogance and stupidity too.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Hi AnnieK, great post, so good to see so many realising the govt is trying to pull a fast one here and that the junior Doctors have a real case.
Even the Consultants are backing them and that does not come easily believe me.
Hunt has made a massive mess of the whole thing and all he can do is threaten to impose the deal if they don't accept it voluntarily.
What arrogance and stupidity too.

he is pretty charmless but morally he is in the right. the junior doctors must work compulsory some weekends to save 100000s of lives. most posts are motivated by tory hate here and do not talk about the FACT tens of thousands die at weekends because doctors wont work weekends and demand over time for doing so, something the nhs cannot afford. I love my fellow man more than I hate tories.

[Vicky.]

I cannot blame them tbh. I'm usually completely against strikes and such, but it really is needed this time.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Edited because my grammar and spelling is always a mess!