[AProducer'sWetDream]

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2015-...-17-year-olds/



"In the latest of a string of defeats for the government, peers voted by 293 to 211 to approve the reform by a majority of 82 during a debate on the report stage of the European Union Referendum Bill.

If the Government allows the move to stand it would see some 1.5m 16 and 17 year olds eligible to take part in the referendum."



Not sure what to think of this- on the one hand, sixteen and seventeen year olds are eligible to pay taxes, so should have a say on how it is spent, but on the other hand, how many sixteen and seventeen year olds work and earn money?

[MB.]

Good

[Kizzy]

A democratic right to vote is nothing to do with earnings.

[AProducer'sWetDream]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

A democratic right to vote is nothing to do with earnings.

It was just an example, obviously there are many who do not work or pay taxes and still have a right to vote. Just as there are many sixteen and seventeen year olds currently working and paying taxes.

I guess the point I was trying to make was: if we deem people of this age responsible enough to do things like get married and join the army, they should also have the right to vote. But we also have laws that prevent under-18s from doing a lot of other things, so do we consider them responsible enough or not?

[LeatherTrumpet]

let me give it to you straight

at 16 you know fck all about fck all

BUT this makes you learn

I applaud it

[Denver]

But are they going to vote sensibly? Because the voters didn't in the last election.

[joeysteele]

They absolutely should be able to vote, for me they should now have the vote generally anyway.

Certainly however in this EU referendum for the simple reason this is a decision not likely to have to be made again or not for a very long time.
These groups will be able to vote in the next general election and therefore should be given the vote in this EU referendum.
It is their futures too after all,in fact even moreso.

It is a total disgrace to the Conservative party that they ever tried to refuse the vote to them too.

[Johnnyuk123]

They can vote but only after they have cleaned their room.

[JoshBB]

Good!

This will mean that I am able to vote in the EU referendum, right now I am currently more swayed by the 'Stay' arguments but I look forward to the debates.

[Jake.]

Originally Posted by Adam.

But are they going to vote sensibly? Because the voters did in the last election.

Well some grown adults don't vote sensibly so it's not going to make a difference

[empire]

no, schools brainwash the young, and teachers put their own political ideology into their minds, and because these teachers come out of oxford, and other places, that is rife with marxism. they would just tell their students to vote to stay in the eu, rather than making their own minds up,

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

They absolutely should be able to vote, for me they should now have the vote generally anyway.

Certainly however in this EU referendum for the simple reason this is a decision not likely to have to be made again or not for a very long time.
These groups will be able to vote in the next general election and therefore should be given the vote in this EU referendum.
It is their futures too after all,in fact even moreso.

It is a total disgrace to the Conservative party that they ever tried to refuse the vote to them too.

It'll come back to bite them, don't worry.

Originally Posted by empire

no, schools brainwash the young, and teachers put their own political ideology into their minds, and because these teachers come out of oxford, and other places, that is rife with marxism. they would just tell their students to vote to stay in the eu, rather than making their own minds up,

How many schools have you gone to recently, empire? Because in my school, politics is a subject not really visited ever except for in RE when we discuss abortion/euthanasia laws, and in English when we are studying a book with political themes to theme. We've read Animal Farm, and let me tell you that there weren't any teachers promoting marxism whatsoever.

I also don't know where this "people on the left like the eu" thing came about either, because there is quite a lot of euroscepticism among socialists and especially communists actually.

[Ashley.]

16-17 year olds I imagine would be likely to either copy others or let insignificant factors affect their vote (such as the legalisation of certain drugs ) but as LT said, it could go the other way and could teach them to make mature decisions whilst learning a thing or two about politics.

A completely different way of looking at it is that parties may alter their target audience and make promises that they believe will get the younger generation on their side. But I don't know how probable that is.

In regards to the referendum, meh, I'm not sure how educated 16-17 year olds are in that area nowadays.

[MB.]

Those who are passionate about politics will vote and those who aren't interested won't vote, simple - it's not just a case of 'they're going to copy their parents/vote for who wants to legalise certain drugs/vote for who wants to give everyone free skateboards and backwards baseball caps and rock and roll CDS!!!'

[Ashley.]

Originally Posted by MB.

Those who are passionate about politics will vote and those who aren't interested won't vote, simple - it's not just a case of 'they're going to copy their parents/vote for who wants to legalise certain drugs/vote for who wants to give everyone free skateboards and backwards baseball caps and rock and roll CDS!!!'

There's no definite "will" or "won't", we'll find out what happens when it happens.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Jake.

Well some grown adults don't vote sensibly so it's not going to make a difference

Looking at the results of the last 3 elections you are truly spot on.

[zakman440]

Good, now they need to extend this to General Elections.

[bitontheslide]

i hope the government reverse the lords amendment. 16 year old's shouldn't be voting on anything important to the country.

Why people don't see this for what it is, I will never know - all this is doing is delaying the vote.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

let me give it to you straight

at 16 you know fck all about fck all

BUT this makes you learn

I applaud it

Oh sooooo TRUE. But at 16 we all THOUGHT we KNEW it ALL. That's plain dangerous today.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Looking at the results of the last 3 elections you are truly spot on.

Go Joey mate.

[MTVN]

No they shouldn't vote. Truth is the Lords don't care too much either way, it's just a petty point scoring exercise against the government. This article puts it well:

The peers seeking to give youngsters the vote do not really care about the young. They want to cause trouble for the Government. A new franchise would require a new electoral roll. The time taken to compile that roll might preclude a referendum next year. Overturning a Lords vote to amend the Bill – as the Commons is entitled to do – would also cost time and potentially limit David Cameron’s options.

Some Tory opponents of EU membership are quietly egging the peers on. They calculate that the later the referendum, the more likely Brexit becomes. Peers would be wrong to pass their disruptive and cynical amendment. Whatever the arguments over EU membership, Mr Cameron and his Government were elected on a clear promise to pass this Bill, which was first published in the same form in the last Parliament. The House of Lords is entitled to scrutinise and revise government plans, not wreck them. Peers should think again.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/t...d-to-vote.html

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by MTVN

No they shouldn't vote. Truth is the Lords don't care too much either way, it's just a petty point scoring exercise against the government. This article puts it well:

That's exactly correct. Its all a ploy

[joeysteele]

In the Scottish referendum,I heard far more sense and constructive debate from the 16/17 year olds than was even coming from the Politicians.
When I was 16, I was strongly interested in politics.
This however is an important decision that will affect all in the UK and I say again, anyone who would be entitled to vote in the 2020 general election should have as a right, a vote in this referendum.

So I hope the Lords succeed but it is a real disgrace that the Conservative party are in fact not the ones leading the battle to give 16/17 year olds a vote here,absolutely disgraceful in my view.

[the truth]

16 year olds are mostly clueless

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

In the Scottish referendum,I heard far more sense and constructive debate from the 16/17 year olds than was even coming from the Politicians.
When I was 16, I was strongly interested in politics.
This however is an important decision that will affect all in the UK and I say again, anyone who would be entitled to vote in the 2020 general election should have as a right, a vote in this referendum.

So I hope the Lords succeed but it is a real disgrace that the Conservative party are in fact not the ones leading the battle to give 16/17 year olds a vote here,absolutely disgraceful in my view.

Its not a disgrace. The minimum voting age is 18. If they want that to change then there should be a proper bill put through parliament changing the standard voting age. Attempting to introduce it by the back door by amending a promised action is the disgrace.