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LeatherTrumpet · 08-03-2016, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

... Is this a serious comment? You believe that the German people knew what Hitler's end game was when he was on the rise? Oh yeah. They were just like "yay woohoo let's do it".

Mein Kampf was translated into 24 languages by the mid 30s, the country was awash with anti Semitic posters and media before the war - they took him seriously and liked him and what he had to say. The war gave them the excuse to excuse killings.

lostalex · 08-03-2016, 07:30 AM

It's like comparing me to Martin Luther King just because I've spoken out against racism a few times.

lostalex · 08-03-2016, 07:33 AM

Let's be real, the vast majority of the Trump hate from Europeans is just because they miss having Bush as a poster boy to use to Hate America, and they felt uncomfortable using Obama cause he's black... the Anti-Americans are just desperate for a a new white president so they can criticize the country without being called a racist. It really is just that simple.

Trumps statements about mexican immigration or muslim immigration is no worse than what many European politicians have said about the European migration/refugee situation at the moment.

LeatherTrumpet · 08-03-2016, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostalex

Let's be real, the vast majority of the Trump hate from Europeans is just because they miss having Bush as a poster boy to use to Hate America, and they felt uncomfortable using Obama cause he's black... the Anti-Americans are just desperate for a a new white president so they can criticize the country without being called a racist. It really is just that simple.

Trumps statements about mexican immigration or muslim immigration is no worse than what many European politicians have said about the European migration/refugee situation at the moment.

probably very true

DemolitionRed · 08-03-2016, 08:01 AM

You can only love Reagan if you're a rich conservative American.

That man still has a lot to answer for, especially regarding the funding and training the Islamist mujahidin Freedom Fighters; the same freedom fighters that then went on to fund the 9/11 attack.
To most Americans, Reagan is more famous for the Iran Contra Scandal -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reagan_administration_scandals than for anything good he might of done.

Ammi · 08-03-2016, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostalex

Let's be real, the vast majority of the Trump hate from Europeans is just because they miss having Bush as a poster boy to use to Hate America, and they felt uncomfortable using Obama cause he's black... the Anti-Americans are just desperate for a a new white president so they can criticize the country without being called a racist. It really is just that simple.

Trumps statements about mexican immigration or muslim immigration is no worse than what many European politicians have said about the European migration/refugee situation at the moment.

..as a non-American, I don't feel uncomfortable at all Alex in saying that Obama for me has seemed to be a fairly bland President, he just doesn't seem to have much substance of character at all...

LeatherTrumpet · 08-03-2016, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostalex

It's like comparing me to Martin Luther King just because I've spoken out against racism a few times.

often when you post my mind is cast back to MLK

other times i see only Louie De Palma from the hit show Taxi

DemolitionRed · 08-03-2016, 09:27 AM

@ Originally Posted by lostalex View Post
Let's be real, the vast majority of the Trump hate from Europeans is just because they miss having Bush as a poster boy to use to Hate America, and they felt uncomfortable using Obama cause he's black... the Anti-Americans are just desperate for a a new white president so they can criticize the country without being called a racist. It really is just that simple.

That's just you assuming everyone's simple.

Cherie · 08-03-2016, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

@ Originally Posted by lostalex View Post
Let's be real, the vast majority of the Trump hate from Europeans is just because they miss having Bush as a poster boy to use to Hate America, and they felt uncomfortable using Obama cause he's black... the Anti-Americans are just desperate for a a new white president so they can criticize the country without being called a racist. It really is just that simple.

That's just you assuming everyone's simple.

Toy Soldier · 08-03-2016, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Mein Kampf was translated into 24 languages by the mid 30s, the country was awash with anti Semitic posters and media before the war - they took him seriously and liked him and what he had to say. The war gave them the excuse to excuse killings.

There was a creeping rot in Germany based largely around economic emasculation, kicks-to-the-balls of "National Pride", and a large amount of scape-goating. Developed over several years to the point that the poisoned population would accept the rhetoric of a dangerously xenophobic individual.

It didn't happen over-night, in the early days leading up to it "normal" Germans would have laughed and scoffed at the idea if you'd told them what would have happened by the end of the 40's. They'd have thought it ridiculous.

The entire "Never Again" mantra is based on the idea of not being complacent and not allowing the "little things" to go unchecked for long enough to snowball into potentially serious outcomes.

This is where there are comparisons. Do I think Trump is likely to become a genocidal mass murderer? No. Well, no more than any other world leader. However the mindset that he represents, the rumblings that surround his brand of politics, should not be ignored. These things do not end well. We know this.

LeatherTrumpet · 08-03-2016, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There was a creeping rot in Germany based largely around economic emasculation, kicks-to-the-balls of "National Pride", and a large amount of scape-goating. Developed over several years to the point that the poisoned population would accept the rhetoric of a dangerously xenophobic individual.

It didn't happen over-night, in the early days leading up to it "normal" Germans would have laughed and scoffed at the idea if you'd told them what would have happened by the end of the 40's. They'd have thought it ridiculous.

The entire "Never Again" mantra is based on the idea of not being complacent and not allowing the "little things" to go unchecked for long enough to snowball into potentially serious outcomes.

This is where there are comparisons. Do I think Trump is likely to become a genocidal mass murderer? No. Well, no more than any other world leader. However the mindset that he represents, the rumblings that surround his brand of politics, should not be ignored. These things do not end well. We know this.

and you think america would be any better under clinton?

look at what her husband did

bitontheslide · 08-03-2016, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The entire "Never Again" mantra is based on the idea of not being complacent and not allowing the "little things" to go unchecked for long enough to snowball into potentially serious outcomes.

This is where there are comparisons. Do I think Trump is likely to become a genocidal mass murderer? No. Well, no more than any other world leader. However the mindset that he represents, the rumblings that surround his brand of politics, should not be ignored. These things do not end well. We know this.

People are allowed free speech though, and then the people have the right to vote on it. If sufficient people agree with Trumps policies, then he should and will be president. If we move to stop even mumblings, then we may as well just pack up and go home to our bunkers, because what is the point to life, no progress will ever be made.

Toy Soldier · 08-03-2016, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostalex

Let's be real, the vast majority of the Trump hate from Europeans is just because they miss having Bush as a poster boy to use to Hate America, and they felt uncomfortable using Obama cause he's black... the Anti-Americans are just desperate for a a new white president so they can criticize the country without being called a racist. It really is just that simple.

Trumps statements about mexican immigration or muslim immigration is no worse than what many European politicians have said about the European migration/refugee situation at the moment.

That's not really true Alex. I'm not anti-American at all, in fact at it's core values I very much like and admire America and the history of the United States. Much more than Europe, in many ways. I have issues with some aspects of American foreign and social policy but that's true of any country, nowhere is perfect. I would happily live in the US, I'm definitely not looking for "excuses to criticize" America, in fact I think the US as a concept always had, and probably does still have, great potential to legitimately be exemplary. You know. If it manages to keep people like Trump from getting their claws in...

Toy Soldier · 08-03-2016, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

People are allowed free speech though, and then the people have the right to vote on it. If sufficient people agree with Trumps policies, then he should and will be president. If we move to stop even mumblings, then we may as well just pack up and go home to our bunkers, because what is the point to life, no progress will ever be made.

I didn't say people shouldn't be allowed free speech. My point (throughout this thread) has been that using a Hitler allegory is, and should be, perfectly acceptable where people have valid concerns. i.e. people shouldn't feel like they're "not allowed to do that because Godwin", or, utterly ridiculously, because it's "the worst kind of hate speech". I mean really. Not just hate speech, but the worst kind? ...OK.

Toy Soldier · 08-03-2016, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

and you think america would be any better under clinton?

look at what her husband did

I'm not particularly a Hilldawg fan either, but this thread is not about Hillary Clinton. As ever, I don't consider "Hmph well the other lot are just as bad!" to be any sort of an endorsement.

Alf · 08-03-2016, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostalex

Let's be real, the vast majority of the Trump hate from Europeans is just because they miss having Bush as a poster boy to use to Hate America, and they felt uncomfortable using Obama cause he's black... the Anti-Americans are just desperate for a a new white president so they can criticize the country without being called a racist. It really is just that simple.

Trumps statements about mexican immigration or muslim immigration is no worse than what many European politicians have said about the European migration/refugee situation at the moment.

I think you're probably on to something there.

bitontheslide · 08-03-2016, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm not particularly a Hilldawg fan either, but this thread is not about Hillary Clinton. As ever, I don't consider "Hmph well the other lot are just as bad!" to be any sort of an endorsement.

It all boils down to a choice between 2 candidates in the end though, so the hmph the other lot are just as bad cannot be argued against. If Trump is deemed the least bad, he will win and be the next president.

LeatherTrumpet · 08-03-2016, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

It all boils down to a choice between 2 candidates in the end though, so the hmph the other lot are just as bad cannot be argued against. If Trump is deemed the least bad, he will win and be the next president.

true

Toy Soldier · 08-03-2016, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

It all boils down to a choice between 2 candidates in the end though, so the hmph the other lot are just as bad cannot be argued against. If Trump is deemed the least bad, he will win and be the next president.

Of course it can be argued against? "Less bad" doesn't mean good. "He will win and become the next president" also doesn't mean good.

I'm not really sure what you're getting at.

bitontheslide · 08-03-2016, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Of course it can be argued against? "Less bad" doesn't mean good. "He will win and become the next president" also doesn't mean good.

I'm not really sure what you're getting at.

when you have a choice of 2 the fundamental quality of the candidates becomes irrelevant. Surely that pretty clear. If they both score 1 out of 100 in a maths exam, they are **** at maths, but one of them will be deemed to be the best

Toy Soldier · 08-03-2016, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

when you have a choice of 2 the fundamental quality of the candidates becomes irrelevant. Surely that pretty clear. If they both score 1 out of 100 in a maths exam, they are **** at maths, but one of them will be deemed to be the best

This thread is neither about Hillary Clinton nor the US election though? It's about the character of Donald Trump and whether or not certain allegories are accurate or acceptable. The fact that he may or may not be marginally better or worse than another individual is entirely irrelevant to what sort of man he, himself, is... and that is ALL that this thread is about.

bitontheslide · 08-03-2016, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

This thread is neither about Hillary Clinton nor the US election though? It's about the character of Donald Trump and whether or not certain allegories are accurate or acceptable. The fact that he may or may not be marginally better or worse than another individual is entirely irrelevant to what sort of man he, himself, is... and that is ALL that this thread is about.

i was responding to YOUR comment on hilary, so put your superior attitude back in the box where it belongs please.