[jaxie]

I was surprised not to see a thread about this so putting one out in case people want to discuss the EUs outrageous attitude towards Gibraltar who they seem to think needs Spain's permission to be part of the UK's deal.

[joeysteele]

I didn't see enough voters in the UK bothered about Gibraltar's view on the issue.

This sadly is an example of how unpleasant and difficult things could become.

It happens when something is proposed with little or even no forward planning at the time across all considered important issues.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I didn't see enough voters in the UK bothered about Gibraltar's view on the issue.

This sadly is an example of how unpleasant and difficult things could become.

It happens when something is proposed with little or even no forward planning at the time across all considered important issues.

Indeed. The potential issues surrounding Brexit should have been examined and hammered out in "if" scenarios before they even THOUGHT about holding an actual vote,let alone triggering article 50. Alas, that's all captain hindsight stuff now. Here we are.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Indeed. The potential issues surrounding Brexit should have been examined and hammered out in "if" scenarios before they even THOUGHT about holding an actual vote,let alone triggering article 50. Alas, that's all captain hindsight stuff now. Here we are.

Agree completely.
As you say here we are, only at the start too.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I didn't see enough voters in the UK bothered about Gibraltar's view on the issue.

This sadly is an example of how unpleasant and difficult things could become.

It happens when something is proposed with little or even no forward planning at the time across all considered important issues.

As with all other parts of the UK, Gibraltar voted in the referendum. They had the same vote as everyone else. You are excusing the behaviour of the EU by trying to blame their attitude towards a region with self determination on those who voted leave. In my view we should refuse further talks until they put this right.

[Northern Monkey]

Spain has always contested our rule of Gibralter and probably always will.However the important thing is that the people of Gibralter want to be part of the UK and have voted that way.Spain will always keep trying their luck.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by jaxie

As with all other parts of the UK, Gibraltar voted in the referendum. They had the same vote as everyone else. You are excusing the behaviour of the EU by trying to blame their attitude towards a region with self determination on those who voted leave. In my view we should refuse further talks until they put this right.

Gibraltar didn't have the millions of voters England had, so hardly had any chance of their massively overwhelming view on the vote at all influencing anything whatsoever.
Which until now as to Gibraltar, the UK govt.has not been bothered about either.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Gibraltar didn't have the millions of voters England had, so hardly had any chance of their massively overwhelming view on the vote at all influencing anything whatsoever.
Which until now as to Gibraltar from the UK govt.has not been bothered about either.

If there were many Gibraltans who wanted to stay in the EU, that would explain such views from those more concerned with making up that 2% or so difference in a desperate attempt to overturn the public vote rather than a faux moralistic concern for the Gibraltans.

[Livia]

The EU is makings itself look petty and small. And who the hell is Spain to call the shots? The people of Gibraltar are British. There is nothing else to say.

[smudgie]

Am I confused here, are Spain saying there will be no freedom of movement with Spain/ Gibralter then.
Sounds a bit daft as the traffic is nearly all one way, so many more Spanish unemployed on the way then.

[arista]

Spain a Trouble Maker
Our Rock is staying British forever

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Gibraltar didn't have the millions of voters England had, so hardly had any chance of their massively overwhelming view on the vote at all influencing anything whatsoever.
Which until now as to Gibraltar, the UK govt.has not been bothered about either.

As with Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, England, Gibraltar voted as part of the United Kingdom. One person, one vote. It didn't vote as just Gibraltar, neither did Scotland vote as just Scotland.

Gibraltar has it's own government and runs its own affairs, they also voted by 98% to stay a part of the UK in 2002. How can you have umbrage over the Brexit vote on their regard but not over Spain and the EU's disgraceful attempt to use Gibraltar?

[Kizzy]

Gibraltar voted to remain, who are they more loyal to...England or the European Union?

Is it worth another ideological war?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by jaxie

As with Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, England, Gibraltar voted as part of the United Kingdom. One person, one vote. It didn't vote as just Gibraltar, neither did Scotland vote as just Scotland.

Gibraltar has it's own government and runs its own affairs, they also voted by 98% to stay a part of the UK in 2002. How can you have umbrage over the Brexit vote on their regard but not over Spain and the EU's disgraceful attempt to use Gibraltar?

I think it is time,particularly a loud minority in England,started to take into consideration the feelings and views of other Nations and dependencies have.
Otherwise not only will the UK split likely in a few years but the old loyalties of other said places,end up being tested too far too.

[MTVN]

Gibraltar seem pretty clear in their view

In a 2002 referendum GIbraltar voted by a 99 per cent margin to remain part of the United Kingdom, but in last year’s EU referendum it voted by 97 per cent to remain in the EU.

Spain has made territorial claim over Gibraltar for more than 300 years, but Mr Picardo said the prospect of the territory ending up under shared control was "awful."

Mr Picardo said: "It would strip us of who we are. It would not be British if sovereignty should be shared with Spain.

"It would be awful. Our home would be handed over to a party that has no claim to title.

"Our day to day lives would not be the lives that would we live today. We would be living in somebody else’s land."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7662566.html

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I think it is time,particularly a loud minority in England,started to take into consideration the feelings and views of other Nations and dependencies have.
Otherwise not only will the UK split likely in a few years but the old loyalties of other said places,end up being tested too far too.

If the 'UK' didn't take into account the feelings of the parts of the UK or of dependencies, none of them would have had referendum's to decide their own fate when requested. They wouldn't have devolved parliament's and the ability to make their own decisions.

There are times, however, when we vote as 'The UK' and at those times we have to respect the outcome.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by jaxie

If the 'UK' didn't take into account the feelings of the parts of the UK or of dependencies, none of them would have had referendum's to decide their own fate when requested. They wouldn't have devolved parliament's and the ability to make their own decisions.

There are times, however, when we vote as 'The UK' and at those times we have to respect the outcome.

Good luck with all that.

I shouldn't comment really as I am off out the UK this year anyway.
I do predict the UK will break up however and while sad for that.
The dictating of votes,election results from the loud minority in much larger populated England that dictates more and more against the will of so called equal Nations of the UK and other territories,coming to an end is in my view well overdue.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Good luck with all that.

I shouldn't comment really as I am off out the UK this year anyway.
I do predict the UK will break up however and while sad for that.
The dictating of votes,election results from the loud minority in much larger populated England that dictates more and more against the will of so called equal Nations of the UK and other territories,coming to an end is in my view well overdue.

Are you just going to withdraw from British politics completely then Joey? Won't you miss it

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Are you just going to withdraw from British politics completely then Joey? Won't you miss it

For me I will miss the political debate.

I will only be in Ireland and it's as much for family reasons as my disillusionment with UK politics and the far South of England in particular.

I personally found the EU referendum truly awful and actually scary at times when canvassing,with the hate that surfaced on some issues as to same.
Plus what has surfaced since the result too.

It doesn't surprise me that likely EU Nations will set out to make issues difficult for the UK govt.
So glad to be heading to what I see as a more forward looking Nation.
So yes while missing UK political debate,I will hold back from commenting much I guess.

Although I really hope when it eventually comes again that Scotland votes for independence,and that others then follow their lead too.

[DemolitionRed]

out of the EU, Gibraltar will essentially be surrounded by politically hostile countries, so at the end of the day, it's up to Gibraltar as they have to be able to trade with the rest of the EU easily to survive.

[thesheriff443]

Gibraltar was under English sovereignty when Britain joined the common market in 1973 before Spain had even joined the common market.

Spain needs to do more for its only people.

[Tom4784]

It's up to Gibraltar to decide, since they voted Remain in the referendum, like with Scotland and NI, I'd be for letting them decide once and for all whether they'll stay or go.

[Kizzy]

I agree, and how many referendums do they need?... Scotland it's ok Gibraltar can have a few so you can have one more

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Livia

The EU is makings itself look petty and small. And who the hell is Spain to call the shots? The people of Gibraltar are British. There is nothing else to say.

Exactly. This is another classic example of the corrupt bully boy tactics of the defunct unaccounted bankrupt EU. Not happy with trying to charge us $60 billion for democratically leaving their disgraceful organization. They now try any dirty tactic to cling onto power, including somehow threatening us with Spains non-existent claims over Gibralter. I am prouder than ever to be a brit, a free thinking brit who simply wishes to keep my own country and our sovereignty, whilst at the same time being willing to trade and do business with the entire world. Not to forget we will now decide who will come into the country and who will not. I dont know if the numbers of people arriving will change or necessarily change, but we will be free to decide over who comes here and why. That is a profound difference.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's up to Gibraltar to decide, since they voted Remain in the referendum, like with Scotland and NI, I'd be for letting them decide once and for all whether they'll stay or go.

They are part fo the UK, the UK voted remain. Anything else is treasonous. Sadly thats where the opportunists of labour have been for years, selling our country down the river , often for personal gain