[parmnion]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

This post is everything I disagree with as to the tone, inferences and even pre conceived judgements of attitude from any in this Nation, towards those hopefully seeking security and a new hope and life.
It represents, possibly only in my view, the worst of thinking.

That's all I'm going to say.

And it's the burying the head in the sand attitude that has already allowed the bloodshed in this and other countries from immigrants hell bent on terror, I'm sorry but the risks of it happening again far out way my concern for these free loaders.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

but anyway i am also against that same anti-immigrant attitude from my parents

i just mean, we do not know what they have experienced like in their own countries, our own privileges and no i am not talking about class now, but of course it is always better in countries like UK, USA, Netherlands, scandinavian ones like Norway, Sweden

i just am fed up by that xenophobia, hatred towards immigrants by now, and the ''crime excuse'' well if there weren't immigrants there would still be crime so

There would be less crime...and that is a FACT...and far less violent crime towards women.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

what facts? any evidence to back this up?

A lot of them come from cultures where abuse towards women and gays is, if not the norm, then a blind eye is turned.

That aside, poverty leads to crime. Depending on how much money the young men paid the traffickers lol, they're unlikely to be rich...

[MTVN]

The majority of migrants using one of the most common sea routes into Europe are not in need of “international protection”, a report by the UN refugee agency has found.

The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) found that more than 70 per cent of those making the perilous crossing from Libya are unlikely to qualify for asylum when they arrive.

In response to the figures, Vincent Cochetel, the UNHCR special envoy for the region, has admitted that a “fair and equitable return mechanism” must be put in place or “the entire asylum system will be called into question”.

It comes as a record number of migrants attempt to cross the English Channel in small boats, many of whom will have come across the Mediterranean into Europe before travelling across land to Calais.

Tony Smith, the former director general of the Border Force, has said that officials are seeing the “same faces” among those attempting to make the crossing.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...ed-protection/

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

there is no problem with immigration, but it must be done legally, i would have thought that was obvious

Using the term ‘illegal’ in relation to immigration implies a distinction between people, neatly divided between those lawfully in the country and those not. Those using it never seem to ask themselves whether the distinction exists in practice or principle.

If they were to attempt in good conscience an answer, they would need to confront several difficulties. Among people who enter the country without permission or stay longer than permitted, are many that cannot be properly labelled with 'wrongdoing'. Refugees, for example, must get to the UK before they can seek asylum. Many of them are compelled to enter without permission – and international human rights law entitles them to do so. This is necessary to guarantee their right to safety. There is no wrongdoing in a refugee crossing a border to claim asylum.

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/blogs/yes...gal-immigrants

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by parmnion

And it's the burying the head in the sand attitude that has already allowed the bloodshed in this and other countries from immigrants hell bent on terror, I'm sorry but the risks of it happening again far out way my concern for these free loaders.

I'm more concerned with the turning away and showing no compassion.

That's the worst form of burying heads in the sand to me.

You're generalising to all of them.
That's frightening in itself.

We're pretty keen to allow the governments we elect to interfere and even help create problems in their Countries however.
That gets supported.
Very revealing.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Using the term ‘illegal’ in relation to immigration implies a distinction between people, neatly divided between those lawfully in the country and those not. Those using it never seem to ask themselves whether the distinction exists in practice or principle.

If they were to attempt in good conscience an answer, they would need to confront several difficulties. Among people who enter the country without permission or stay longer than permitted, are many that cannot be properly labelled with 'wrongdoing'. Refugees, for example, must get to the UK before they can seek asylum. Many of them are compelled to enter without permission – and international human rights law entitles them to do so. This is necessary to guarantee their right to safety. There is no wrongdoing in a refugee crossing a border to claim asylum.

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/blogs/yes...gal-immigrants

that's just plain wrong. The people coming over from france are in a safe country. They can go through the proper procedures to apply to come to the uk, but they don't, they get in a boat because they know they are not asylum seekers and try to get here illegally. I don't want undocumented people who could be criminals or terrorist entering the uk, and I will support all efforts to stop it happening

[arista]

Capt. Remy
Sort your Criminal Gangs out.

Migrant, 16, found dead on beach in Calais

https://news.sky.com/story/sudanese-...alais-12052342

[Oliver_W]

Sad. Hopefully this will be a hint to France that failing to stop people from trying to cross the Channel costs lives.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

that's just plain wrong. The people coming over from france are in a safe country. They can go through the proper procedures to apply to come to the uk, but they don't, they get in a boat because they know they are not asylum seekers and try to get here illegally. I don't want undocumented people who could be criminals or terrorist entering the uk, and I will support all efforts to stop it happening

It might seem wrong to you but that doesn't make it illegal. Undocumented people? Do you think when people arrive here legally they have terrorist printed on their passport.
Or they have just wandered out of the wilderness to cross the channel and there's no way to verify who they are?

They are asylum seekers even if they pass through other countries borders to get here.
To criminalise them for that is wrong under international law, which is why they are held and processed. The conditions they are held in are wrong, and are more likely to be classed as illegal.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Sad. Hopefully this will be a hint to France that failing to stop people from trying to cross the Channel costs lives.

Cost lives? ... they didnt die in the water they were murdered. You're victim blaming by saying if they werent there they wouldnt have been murdered, can you hear how messed up that sounds? It should be a hint to us to stop dehumanising people, as that's the real problem and your post makes that very clear.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Cost lives? ... they didnt die in the water they were murdered. You're victim blaming by saying if they werent there they wouldnt have been murdered, can you here how messed up that sounds? It should be a hint to us to stop dehumanising people, as that is the real problem and your post makes that very clear.

Murdered?

There's no victim blaming, no-one forced them to make an unsanctioned and unneeded crossing of a dangerous body of water.

No-one's dehumanising anyone, France should keep those humans from trying to cross the Channel.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I'm more concerned with the turning away and showing no compassion.

That's the worst form of burying heads in the sand to me.

You're generalising to all of them.
That's frightening in itself.

We're pretty keen to allow the governments we elect to interfere and even help create problems in their Countries however.
That gets supported.
Very revealing.

Who is supporting it?
What is revealing and whom is it revealing?

People willing to let these people come to our shores without checks have the blood of everyone of the Manchester victims on thier hands...all the raped victims or the old lady who had her throat cut by an immigrant...everyone willing to stand back and allow this to continue will have the blood of every future victim on thier hands..

[Captain.Remy]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

No-one's dehumanising anyone, France should keep those humans from trying to cross the Channel.

Well, you wanted to get of the EU, now deal with it. Clearly the migrants want to get to the UK, I can't see why France should be the one to blame for the UK being so attractive to asylum seekers. France is saying that since you don't want to deal with then EU system, then it's your problem. We love freedom here, we let people go where they want. That doesn't prevent from trying to fight gangs and criminal activities, but the French authorities won't put more money there. And it's not just France tbh. The migrants don't come FROM France, but crossed the country too. If anything it should be EU countries that have borders with non-EU countries you might want to blame.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Who is supporting it?
What is revealing and whom is it revealing?

People willing to let these people come to our shores without checks have the blood of everyone of the Manchester victims on thier hands...all the raped victims or the old lady who had her throat cut by an immigrant...everyone willing to stand back and allow this to continue will have the blood of every future victim on thier hands..

The Manchester bomber wasn't a refugee he was British...
This is right wing fear mongering are it's best. ' they're coming here to kill us in our beds!!'

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Captain.Remy

Well, you wanted to get of the EU, now deal with it. Clearly the migrants want to get to the UK, I can't see why France should be the one to blame for the UK being so attractive to asylum seekers. France is saying that since you don't want to deal with then EU system, then it's your problem. We love freedom here, we let people go where they want. That doesn't prevent from trying to fight gangs and criminal activities, but the French authorities won't put more money there. And it's not just France tbh. The migrants don't come FROM France, but crossed the country too. If anything it should be EU countries that have borders with non-EU countries you might want to blame.

It's counties that start destabilising illegal wars that are to blame.

[Captain.Remy]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It's counties that start destabilising illegal wars that are to blame.

That's why I'm not blaming either France or other EU countries. I was just pointing that, why is France the one to blame? It's not. The migrants are not from this country. It's like the British media and people can't look further than the Channel. The horrible management of the countries where they're from is the one to blame. Dictators, corruption etc

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Captain.Remy

That's why I'm not blaming either France or other EU countries. I was just pointing that, why is France the one to blame? It's not. The migrants are not from this country. It's like the British media and people can't look further than the Channel. The horrible management of the countries where they're from is the one to blame. Dictators, corruption etc

I meant the Brits. ..we started an illegal war didn't we? Remember Blair?

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I meant the Brits. ..we started an illegal war didn't we? Remember Blair?

I've never started an illegal war in my life if "we" are responsible for that, the migrants crossing the Channel are responsible for islamic terrorism.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

The Manchester bomber wasn't a refugee he was British...
This is right wing fear mongering are it's best. ' they're coming here to kill us in our beds!!'

Ok I accept the manchester bombers were born in britain...but the rest though...

Just one atrocity on a uk citizen by an illegal immigrant( ie someone here illegally) should be enough to stop them all coming over.

[arista]

France has taken 41 Illegal Migrants back
they saved them.

The Weather has changed
Storm Ellen



The Dead Sudan migrant found on French beach
could not swim.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-53835374

France blames the Criminal Smugglers

[arista]

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by arista

If the people they are working together with are the people in the hotels, then it makes sense to bring them here and pay for them, just as long as they provide info on these gangs.

[Liam-]

This is what this country is dealing with, blood thirsty racists, stirred up by the likes of Farage and other right wing melts, it’s ****ing disgraceful.

[arista]

Originally Posted by parmnion

If the people they are working together with are the people in the hotels, then it makes sense to bring them here and pay for them, just as long as they provide info on these gangs.

Yes the Criminal Smuggler Gangs
are not being stopped, yet.