[Liam-]

Of course, people shouldn’t be pigeonholed into roles they can or can’t play because of their sexuality, acting is a job and whoever is best for the job, should get the job, it’s about making the best possible product, not making the best possible product with the person who best fitted a certain description

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Cal.

I probably don’t watch enough television to bring an actual balanced view to the topic, but I watch a lot of soaps, and the trend within them now to just cast straight actors to play gay characters and completely erase any part of gay culture from them besides having them snog a member of the same sex because it’s hot is ridiculous. It’s treating gay people like they are unattractive and unacceptable unless they conform to the characteristics and mannerisms of their straight counterparts. I wasn’t even shocked to learn that LGBT tolerance has apparently gone down in this country in the last few years if stuff like that is happening widespread. People are going to start having the attitude of ‘Oh well I only accept gay people if they act like a straight person’ etc etc.

Yeah, the soaps put gay couples together to titilate to audience members who get off on seeing two straight blokes kissing.

No offence to Rob of course.

[Braden]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's not something I care about that much tbh, there's also the risk that if you say, for example, that only gay people can play gay roles, it opens up the idea of pigeon holing gay actors into gay roles, and so on and so forth. When it comes to sexualities, as long as it's handled sensitively and tastefully (IE not like Jack Whitehall in Jungle Cruise or James Corden in Prom), I'm fine with straight actors playing LGBT roles. It's more about whether or not they have the talent to portray the character well than anything else.

When it comes to trans people, it's trickier, especially considering that one thing I hear a lot from trans people is that they don't just want to play trans roles, but on the other hand trans people are passed over by cis actors in trans roles quite often as well. It's a case by case thing really. Trans roles should ideally be played by trans people, but it's a two way street, trans people should be able to play cis roles as well.

For me, ultimately, it's more important that our stories are being told. Love, Simon got some controversy because a straight person played Simon, but tbh, it was nice having an LGBT film that was neither an unceasing tragedy, or just an endless parade of nudity and sex scenes. I want more LGBT stories that don't highlight the tragedy of us (although, admittedly, we are a people whose history is routed in it), or reduce us to just edgy sex scenes.

I think that's the main bullet point for me.

For example, one of my favourite films from last year was Boys in the Band. The recent movie and the 1970 version are known for having an all-gay ensemble. It's a story written by a gay man, depicting the lives of gay men. Would it have been equally as enjoyable with a straight cast? I'm not sure. Would it have weirded me out if straight men played the characters? Maybe.

However, there seems to be a lot of politically correct rhetoric, making this an issue when the content and depiction of gay characters is probably more important than the actors playing them. Not to mention the whole process would muddy the waters for everyone in terms of ethics.

[Ammi]

...just touching on James Corden in The Prom, who has been mentioned...?..and his performance of Barry was described as ‘disgusting’ because of the ‘stereotype’ that Barry’s character was ....or was it that James portrayed him as that stereotype...it was such a controversial casting, anyway ...I watched the movie and his portrayal wasn’t the greatest but at the same time, his character was actually quite endearing as well, I did like the character...I might watch it again, actually...but his performance was termed as ‘offensive’ ...but then if he had been LGBTQ, surely he would have still given the same performance and portrayal of. Barry...so would ‘offensive/disgusting’ etc not have applied then also because he would be seen as portraying his own sexuality...?...what I’m thinking as well is that Rupert Everett as a LGBTQ person portraying George, an LGBTQ person in My Best Friend’s Wedding was also surely a very ‘stereotypically portrayed’ character and his performance didn't get criticism so far as I recall...

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Braden

I think that's the main bullet point for me.

For example, one of my favourite films from last year was Boys in the Band. The recent movie and the 1970 version are known for having an all-gay ensemble. It's a story written by a gay man, depicting the lives of gay men. Would it have been equally as enjoyable with a straight cast? I'm not sure. Would it have weirded me out if straight men played the characters? Maybe.

However, there seems to be a lot of politically correct rhetoric, making this an issue when the content and depiction of gay characters is probably more important than the actors playing them. Not to mention the whole process would muddy the waters for everyone in terms of ethics.

...I was just actually thinking of that movie myself, Braden......one of the things about the movie was that it was an all LGBTQ cast, which was a huge unique thing about it an all LGBTQ cast playing all LGBTQ characters...but would any of the characters have worked just as well with some non LGBTQ actors also... that’s a really interesting one and I honestly don’t know because the cast is so utterly perfect exactly as they are...

[Ammi]

...what I’m trying to say is that ‘stereotypical can be portrayed within LGBTQ as well, so I think the criticism of James Corden particularly might have been a quite a bit harsh, from me as well...because it was mainly because he was ‘straight playing gay’....

[Braden]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I was just actually thinking of that movie myself, Braden......one of the things about the movie was that it was an all LGBTQ cast, which was a huge unique thing about it an all LGBTQ cast playing all LGBTQ characters...but would any of the characters have worked just as well with some non LGBTQ actors as also... that’s a really interesting one and I honestly don’t know because the cast is so utterly perfect exactly as they are...

I completely agree! I'm glad I thought about the film because it allowed me to form a bit of nuance to my opinion. It's a really special and unique film because of the cast.

[Kazanne]

If someone is an 'actor. then it doesnt matter who plays the part as they take on that part and act.

[_Seth]

Originally Posted by Braden

Would it have been equally as enjoyable with a straight cast? I'm not sure.

If the straight actors were talented enough to portray the roles well then why would it matter?

Originally Posted by Ammi

...just touching on James Corden in The Prom, who has been mentioned...?..and his performance of Barry was described as ‘disgusting’ because of the ‘stereotype’ that Barry’s character was ....or was it that James portrayed him as that stereotype...it was such a controversial casting, anyway ...I watched the movie and his portrayal wasn’t the greatest but at the same time, his character was actually quite endearing as well, I did like the character...I might watch it again, actually...but his performance was termed as ‘offensive’ ...but then if he had been LGBTQ, surely he would have still given the same performance and portrayal of. Barry...so would ‘offensive/disgusting’ etc not have applied then also because he would be seen as portraying his own sexuality...?...what I’m thinking as well is that Rupert Everett as a LGBTQ person portraying George, an LGBTQ person in My Best Friend’s Wedding was also surely a very ‘stereotypically portrayed’ character and his performance didn't get criticism so far as I recall...

This is where it just gets over complicated for no reason. Plus, the public are fickle as hell so I would expect their opinion on this to waver based on the actor.

At any rate, how would casting directors verify if someone even is gay? What if they're unsure and still discovering themselves? Can bisexual people play gay roles?

How about we just let the best actors play the roles they audition for, or is that seriously unreasonable?

Side note regarding gay stereotypes - as a person in the gay community I can confirm that the utterly vast majority of gay men are extremely effeminate and present in a very feminine manner. (Which is fair enough, but unfortunately when I'm gay I have very little choice because I'm not attracted to men who act like women, as much as I would happily be friends with them. )

[Shaun]

I am indifferent on this subject. I think there needs to be more of the reverse (gay actors playing straight, or indeed gay actors playing gay) to balance the scales... trans actors in particular, too. Pretty much every "big" trans role in history has gone to cisgendered men or women (Jared Leto in Dallas Buyers Club, Jeffrey Tambor in Transparent, Eddie Redmayne in The Danish Girl, Hillary Swank in Boys Don't Cry, Cameron Diaz in Being John Malkovich, Felicity Huffman in Transamerica.). I had to stretch to remember some of those because there really haven't been that many roles in film... we might be getting more nowadays but if you take a look at this list from Wikipedia, of "films about transgender characters", the majority of those included are horribly offensive and outdated comedy roles in films like American Pie, Dude Where's My Car?, etc. (where the butt of the joke is a straight guy being "tricked" by a trans woman)

That said, should no straight actor ever be allowed to play gay ever again? No, of course not. Especially if they're a great actor. The question is... how many great trans/queer actors are being passed over for a more marketable lead?

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Don't forget Drag Race, isn't that a load of men pretending to be women too? There's no up roar about that either

Out of about 150 competitors there've probably been about 20 trans women, 1 trans man, and a bunch more that're non-binary... so no it isn't just that

[Braden]

Originally Posted by _Seth

If the straight actors were talented enough to portray the roles well then why would it matter?

It shouldn't, but as I said before, the film was unique because it was an all-gay ensemble that perfectly played their roles written by a gay man.

That's not to say films written/produced by straight men aren't as good. Philadelphia and Moonlight are two of my favourite films depicting gay men/culture, and the leads were played by straight men too. It doesn't make them any less special, but I thought the above example was interesting and provided a bit of nuance to the debate.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Shaun

Out of about 150 competitors there've probably been about 20 trans women, 1 trans man, and a bunch more that're non-binary... so not is isn't just that

Well like I said I don't watch it, that's just what I assumed,(although still the vast majority are men pretending to be women according to those figures) my daughter loves it though. I do take Smithys point about it not being a good comparison since it's a Reality/Talent show more than an acting role as such

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by _Seth

If the straight actors were talented enough to portray the roles well then why would it matter?


This is where it just gets over complicated for no reason. Plus, the public are fickle as hell so I would expect their opinion on this to waver based on the actor.

At any rate, how would casting directors verify if someone even is gay? What if they're unsure and still discovering themselves? Can bisexual people play gay roles?

How about we just let the best actors play the roles they audition for, or is that seriously unreasonable?

Side note regarding gay stereotypes - as a person in the gay community I can confirm that the utterly vast majority of gay men are extremely effeminate and present in a very feminine manner. (Which is fair enough, but unfortunately when I'm gay I have very little choice because I'm not attracted to men who act like women, as much as I would happily be friends with them. )

...I’m thinking it depends largely on the movie type as well and obviously the character being portrayed because both in The Prom with Barry and My Best Friend’s Wedding with George...they are both surely meant to be played as a kind of ‘stereotype’ characters..?...but what I find interesting is that Rupert didn’t get the criticism ...(...and actually it was really bad/controversial) stuff that James did...

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Shaun

Out of about 150 competitors there've probably been about 20 trans women, 1 trans man, and a bunch more that're non-binary... so not is isn't just that

I meeeaaan... if we're being accurate, RuPaul's own vision of Drag Race was always that it was for biologically male gay men who liked to perform in drag, and that physical alterations were essentially cheating. He was bullied into a U-turn on issue of trans contestants through community backlash in fairly recent years. Trying to pretend otherwise is just revisionism.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Shaun

Out of about 150 competitors there've probably been about 20 trans women, 1 trans man, and a bunch more that're non-binary... so not is isn't just that

So apart from the transman, they were all biologically male?

[Shaun]

Not even going to dignify that with a response, Oliver.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I meeeaaan... if we're being accurate, RuPaul's own vision of Drag Race was always that it was for biologically male gay men who liked to perform in drag, and that physical alterations were essentially cheating. He was bullied into a U-turn on issue of trans contestants through community backlash in fairly recent years. Trying to pretend otherwise is just revisionism.

I'm not pretending anything; some of the trans competitors were on the very first couple of seasons* so it isn't revisionism at all. I won't defend RuPaul himself because he's definitely made comments in the past that allude to the idea of a "this is a show, this is men putting on a costume" competition but the show is more than just him and his ideals.

*Sonique (series 2), Stacy and Carmen (series 3), Jiggly Caliente and Kenya Michaels (series 4). Granted, they've transitioned after the show - or gone public with it anyway - but to just write the whole series off as men pretending to be women is... short-sighted.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Shaun

Not even going to dignify that with a response, Oliver.

What's wrong with calling something by what it is

[Captain.Remy]

The way I see it is that all actors should be on the same level playing field from the start and let the talent speak for itself.

However though, LGBTQ actors have less chances of being hired regardless of the sexuality of the role. It's a question of visibility and breaking down barriers that prevent them from being considered for their talent only. There's a whole prejudice in this industry such as casting directors not even considering a LGBTQ actor to play a LGBTQ role because "they're too femme" and by fear it won't appeal to the general public for instance.
Trans actors are passed over by cis actors in trans roles too, so that's another level of injustice felt.
So I don't think we should forbid heterosexual actors to play LGBTQ roles, but there's definitely a need for change and awareness for all actors to be considered equally.

There are so many great LGBTQ actors out there who are waiting to be discovered and are as much talented as their heterosexual counterparts. It's a shame we're not able to see them doing what they love and are good at just because of stereotypes and prejudice.

[Alf]

Whoever the producer chooses to play the part should be the person to play the part. Everybody else should mind their own business or make your own programme where you get to choose who plays the parts.

[Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's not something I care about that much tbh, there's also the risk that if you say, for example, that only gay people can play gay roles, it opens up the idea of pigeon holing gay actors into gay roles, and so on and so forth. When it comes to sexualities, as long as it's handled sensitively and tastefully (IE not like Jack Whitehall in Jungle Cruise or James Corden in Prom), I'm fine with straight actors playing LGBT roles. It's more about whether or not they have the talent to portray the character well than anything else.

When it comes to trans people, it's trickier, especially considering that one thing I hear a lot from trans people is that they don't just want to play trans roles, but on the other hand trans people are passed over by cis actors in trans roles quite often as well. It's a case by case thing really. Trans roles should ideally be played by trans people, but it's a two way street, trans people should be able to play cis roles as well.

For me, ultimately, it's more important that our stories are being told. Love, Simon got some controversy because a straight person played Simon, but tbh, it was nice having an LGBT film that was neither an unceasing tragedy, or just an endless parade of nudity and sex scenes. I want more LGBT stories that don't highlight the tragedy of us (although, admittedly, we are a people whose history is routed in it), or reduce us to just edgy sex scenes.

I agree with most of this, as much as I enjoyed the series, I had a real problem with Love Victor not having one single LGBTQ+ representative in the entire main cast, whilst I don’t think gay roles should be restricted to gay people, there should at least be some opportunities for LGBTQ+ actors, not casting any is a bit ****ty.

[Vicky.]

I think as long as its not like..obvious parodies I don't see the issue.

Its a bit problematic when it comes to trans parts though as..it seems offensive to have a 'cis' person playing a transperson. I think this would matter more with a transwoman role being taken by a man tbh, than the other way. It would be potentially problematic for a woman to play a transwoman also, or a man playing a transman. But, there are not many (openly anyway) transpeople in acting, so the few trans actors would be kind of typecast into certain roles, and also..if theres much fuss over trans roles, then surely transpeople should also not play 'cis' roles. Or something.

Ultimately though, actors are actors. They don't need to BE the same as the role they are playing. But I can certainly see where, especially in the current climate, casting trans roles could be an issue. I don't really see the same issue with gay/lesbian/bi roles. And I think sometimes NOT casting on minority issues, probably opens more doors for minority actors than it closes? And really, there are few times I could see that sexuality might be a main part of any role for a film to start with? Netflix seem to be doing really well on that issue, where they have LGBT actors without making their sexuality a main part of the character..if that makes sense? Its refreshing actually, to just see gay relationships happen on screen without the huge 'omg are they arent they?' stuff that usually goes along with gay characters? Not sure I am explaining that right. But netflix stuff especially seems to have much more representation for minorities (not just LGBT, but also BAME characters) than other areas anyway..

[Ninastar]

I don’t see it as an issue, honestly. Gay actors have had to act straight for years and it’s just acting. If an actor is only allowed to use what they ‘are’ as a person, surely that is problematic in itself?

For example, can you only ever be a black straight female if that’s how you were born? Or can you use your acting abilities to play a role that could be meaningful to thousands of people?

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Daniel-X

I’m sure you wouldn’t be saying the same if a man was playing a woman.

But Daniel THAT has happened in movies

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Mitchell

I agree with most of this, as much as I enjoyed the series, I had a real problem with Love Victor not having one single LGBTQ+ representative in the entire main cast, whilst I don’t think gay roles should be restricted to gay people, there should at least be some opportunities for LGBTQ+ actors, not casting any is a bit ****ty.

Yeah I agree with that too

[Cal.]

Originally Posted by Mitchell

I agree with most of this, as much as I enjoyed the series, I had a real problem with Love Victor not having one single LGBTQ+ representative in the entire main cast, whilst I don’t think gay roles should be restricted to gay people, there should at least be some opportunities for LGBTQ+ actors, not casting any is a bit ****ty.

Yeah, again I only really am knowledgeable about the soaps, but EastEnders for instance has the most LGBT characters it’s had in years in it at the moment, yet they just axed it’s only actual LGBT cast member but kept 5 who are straight actors playing LGBT characters. It’s just poor.