[Oliver_W]

So along with women losing their name ("pregnant people", "people who menstruate") they can't even have a specific term for when they're victimised?

[joeysteele]

I wouldn't expect much that is right or makes sense from Raab.
Pretty scary that he is now deputy PM.

[Niamh.]

What an idiot, glad she pulled him up on that.

[bitontheslide]

how thick are the people in control?

[Oliver_W]

I guess it was possible he was answering the question as if she asked about sexism rather than specifically misogyny. But even then, the preamble was was about the "current" relevant topic of crimes against women and girls.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I guess it was possible he was answering the question as if she asked about sexism rather than specifically misogyny. But even then, the preamble was was about the "current" relevant topic of crimes against women and girls.

Well whether he'd done it on purpose or because he thinks they're the same thing the effect he was going for the was the same, down playing it and pointing out that men can be victims of sexism too.

To me the difference between the two is something like this

Man 1 - Women are bad drivers
Man 2 - Women who wear short skirts deserve to be raped like the *****s they are

[Cherie]

I think he was trying too hard to be PC there and failed miserably

[Toy Soldier]

To be fair I think it was a slip up in his phrasing rather than not knowing what misogyny means, because he emphasised "insults" first, I think he intended to say "insulting language used against anyone".

However that's not really all that much better because it tries to make it a "both sides" issue and downplays the very obvious fact that misogyny is a much bigger issue in itself.

No least because insults aimed at women are usually focused on them being women - whereas if you look at insulting language used against straight men, very tellingly, the insult is intended for the man but the language used is actually very often misogynistic or homophobic. "Real men don't cry", "Showing too much emotion is girly", if you don't join in with making comments about women "you must be gay, arses to the wall!", or a common one that goes right back to most people's primary school days and covers both - "If you don't like football, you're a girl and/or gay" (because what could be worse than that??)

I largely agree that baseless insults being thrown around is never a good thing but trying to deny that misogyny is a much deeper-rooted problem than those simple surface insults is a massive cop-out. It's obviously a much larger issue, up there with racism and homophobia.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Well whether he'd done it on purpose or because he thinks they're the same thing the effect he was going for the was the same, down playing it and pointing out that men can be victims of sexism too.

To me the difference between the two is something like this

Man 1 - Women are bad drivers
Man 2 - Women who wear short skirts deserve to be raped like the *****s they are

The thing is though, if Man 1 would say the former as anything other than tongue-in-cheek/banter then in my experience he's only a pint and a half away from being Man 2.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The thing is though, if Man 1 would say the former as anything other than tongue-in-cheek/banter then in my experience he's only a pint and a half away from being Man 2.

Well yeah I do agree with you and besides that all these smaller little insults add up to why women are viewed as inferior on a wider scale in society imo

[bitontheslide]

it's pretty much the same as the white lives matter too argument. Well, of course no one can argue against stating the obvious, but it's used as an excuse to normalise the treatment of a persecuted group

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

it's pretty much the same as the white lives matter too argument. Well, of course no one can argue against stating the obvious, but it's used as an excuse to normalise the treatment of a persecuted group

Yeah, it really is

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

it's pretty much the same as the white lives matter too argument. Well, of course no one can argue against stating the obvious, but it's used as an excuse to normalise the treatment of a persecuted group

Well yeah it is exactly the same really

"Black lives matter" "ALL lives matter."
"Misogyny is bad" "ALL insults are bad."

[Toy Soldier]

I actually think misogyny is viewed differently to other forms of discrimination, bizarrely enough, because women are NOT a minority group like the other groups in siimilar discussions. Women make up 50% of the population (statistically it's often actually slightly more than 50%, for some reason) but ... that surely makes it even more bewildering that women ARE still a persecuted group. Half of the population!