Republic Of Scotland : Thurs Sept 18th 2014

[Kizzy]

We used to get barrs dandylion and burdock from the chippy in the 70's and get 10p back on the bottle, funny how we were more eco friendly then than now.

[Novo]

England will claim Rangers as well if Scotland become Independent, we can't have them being subjected to more corruption, Ibrox will be took down piece by piece and moved over the border and rebuilt

[fingers]

We used to get barrs dandylion and burdock from the chippy in the 70's and get 10p back on the bottle, funny how we were more eco friendly then than now.

Yep, we live in a "No Deposit, No Return" world.

[Kyle]

England will claim Rangers as well if Scotland become Independent, we can't have them being subjected to more corruption, Ibrox will be took down piece by piece and moved over the border and rebuilt

Follow follow we will follow Rangers

Should they move to England we will follow on.....

[fingers]

Follow follow we will follow Rangers

Should they move to England we will follow on.....

You can take Rangers out of Scotland, but.......

[Kyle]

You can take Rangers out of Scotland, but.......then Scotland will be without its most successful club and everybody would probably have to support Partick

Yes Fingers I agree!

[fingers]

Yes Fingers I agree!

aargh, you edited my post!!!:dance::devil:

[Kyle]

aargh, you edited my post you legend!!!:dance::devil:

You are my new favourite poster! :dance:

Sorry Kizzy your out!

[Vicky.]

If Scotland go independent, I want them to take the north east with them :(

[MTVN]

If Scotland go independent, I want them to take the north east with them :(

Me too :(

[fingers]

Send us your poor and deprived and Salmond will give them succour!

[GypsyGoth]

I don't see a downside for Scotland at all if they become independent.

[Kyle]

Can we also have a referendum please to get rid of Liverpool? Give them to the Irish maybe? We keep the 6 counties and they can have Merseyside.

[fingers]

Can we also have a referendum please to get rid of Liverpool? Give them to the Irish maybe? We keep the 6 counties and they can have Merseyside.

Why not let Salmond nuke London while he still has the Subs. in the Gareloch?

[Kyle]

Why not let Salmond nuke London while he still has the Subs. in the Gareloch?

Oh I see what's going on here, it's Wallace's invasion of England mark II.

Better get on the old telegraph to the Marshall of Northumberland.

[fingers]

Oh I see what's going on here, it's Wallace's invasion of England mark II.

Better get on the old telegraph to the Marshall of Northumberland.

With London out of the way Salmond could take over the world! Supersal!

[Toy Soldier]

Yeah, sounds like "Tizer, the appetizer".

It's not... the only way I can describe Red Cola is... if you took a whole kilo bag of sugar, dissolved it in fizzy water, and added 3 full bottles of red food colouring. That's basically Red Cola. The flavour can simply be described as sweet. Just sweet. A bottle of fizzy "sweet".

[fingers]

It's not... the only way I can describe Red Cola is... if you took a whole kilo bag of sugar, dissolved it in fizzy water, and added 3 full bottles of red food colouring. That's basically Red Cola. The flavour can simply be described as sweet. Just sweet. A bottle of fizzy "sweet".
You can't dissolve sugar in fizzy water, it flattens it! :dance::devil::joker:

[Kyle]

With London out of the way Salmond could take over the world! Supersal!

Well as part of Clan Campbell I guess I'd have to heed the call! :pipe:

[Lee.]

In fact , come to think of it.. Red cola tastes like cola cubes!

[Z]

You still get money for taking your glass bottles back!! It's 30p now though! :amazed:

Such a good system, they have that system in Germany for all kinds of plastic bottles, you take them back to the supermarket, pop them in a machine and get back 25 cents per bottle you put in! Wish they had it over here, it'd encourage recycling.

[joeysteele]

Personally, I still no way believe the Scots will vote for independence.
However if I lived in Scotland nd could vote, I would vote SNP,I think Alex Salmond is a formidable politician and the best there is as to leaders of all parties at present.

[Kizzy]

You prefer fingers to me?!... :hmph:
So the scots might take the northeast, can't understand a wordnthey say anyway so no loss... London might want the midlands to house all their gold and stuff .. so, who wants yorkshire??...anyone?.. :(

[arista]

If Scotland go independent, I want them to take the north east with them :(


No Way


You are English

[the truth]

this tory lot are certainly pushing Scotland toward independence again
the nasty party are bringing back the nightmares of Thatcherism
can I also add the scots are far far better educated than the rest of the UK
The scots people Ive met and know are majority in favour of independence and they could talk to you for days giving endless minute detail how they would be better off.
they seem to understand how to get a better deal out of Europe too, which is crucial
they have their own oil, their own flag,theyre own tax system, many of their own laws, they print their own money, theyd still have the monarchy as some meaningless valueless symbol as does all lof the Uk sadly. theyd still form part of the british army but have more control when regiments are threatened with closure....If they want to reinvest in coal as they probably will as an energy source at this desperate time, they can....they have absolutely enormous tract of unused land that can be used for mining, tracking, windfarms or offshore.....tidal power is another option.....

Scotland as a people are massively respected, with their rich history and heritage in particular for science, education,engineering, ship building, inventions and more recently in their burgeoning financial services sector...etc
the scots are liked, for a small nation of just over 5 million, there are vast swathes of scots in top jobs across the spectrum.....the country is stunning, the reputation is superb...people want to do business with them

I say go for it

[arista]

Alex is Live on BBC1HD now

[Jesus.]

What's the vibe? Is he saying anything new? Is he communicating his points through the medium of experimental dance?

[arista]

What's the vibe? Is he saying anything new? Is he communicating his points through the medium of experimental dance?


No he still Demands a debate with PM
and that will not happen.


Nothing New
we need his White Paper in Nov.

[joeysteele]

No he still Demands a debate with PM
and that will not happen.


Nothing New
we need his White Paper in Nov.

He should engage in a debate with Alex Salmond, Alex Salmond is the current elected leader of the Scottish Govt.
David Cameron is the elected PM of the whole UK.

If Scotland votes for independence it will have happened in his time as PM, he should have been seen to lead the battle to keep the Scots as part of the UK.
Failure to do so will reflect very badly on him long term.

What is he really afraid of however as to a debate with Alex Salmond.

[arista]

He should engage in a debate with Alex Salmond, Alex Salmond is the current elected leader of the Scottish Govt.
David Cameron is the elected PM of the whole UK.

If Scotland votes for independence it will have happened in his time as PM, he should have been seen to lead the battle to keep the Scots as pasrt of the UK.
Failure to do so will relect very badly on him long term.

What is he really afraid of however as to a debate with Alex Salmond.


No the PM has stated
its not a England Vs Scotland fight.
Its Scotland asking its wants to go it alone.

Debate on Radio 5 live now
Alex on it.



The PM is not getting into a Debate with Alex
Fact

[Lee.]

this tory lot are certainly pushing Scotland toward independence again
the nasty party are bringing back the nightmares of Thatcherism
can I also add the scots are far far better educated than the rest of the UK
The scots people Ive met and know are majority in favour of independence and they could talk to you for days giving endless minute detail how they would be better off.
they seem to understand how to get a better deal out of Europe too, which is crucial
they have their own oil, their own flag,theyre own tax system, many of their own laws, they print their own money, theyd still have the monarchy as some meaningless valueless symbol as does all lof the Uk sadly. theyd still form part of the british army but have more control when regiments are threatened with closure....If they want to reinvest in coal as they probably will as an energy source at this desperate time, they can....they have absolutely enormous tract of unused land that can be used for mining, tracking, windfarms or offshore.....tidal power is another option.....

Scotland as a people are massively respected, with their rich history and heritage in particular for science, education,engineering, ship building, inventions and more recently in their burgeoning financial services sector...etc
the scots are liked, for a small nation of just over 5 million, there are vast swathes of scots in top jobs across the spectrum.....the country is stunning, the reputation is superb...people want to do business with them

I say go for it

I like this post :) it's a refreshing change from the all too common attitude of "**** em.. Let them go it alone and see how long they survive without being subsidised by us!" Blah blah blah

[Vicky.]

No Way


You are English

I would rather give the SNP a chance than the shower of **** that England has to chose between tbh

I actually feel closer to the Scottish than Southerners. They (from my experience anyway) are much nicer/friendlier people too.

[Toy Soldier]

I'm being slowly swayed towards independence, to be honest. Not because I think we would he instantly better off - but looking at the long-term prospects it seems like a sensible option. I actually think there would be a good few hard years or even decades to get through the teething problems. However... Currently it feels a lot like - despite the current governments fiddled figures - Britain is a sinking ship. It's still getting worse, economically and politically, especially for average working families, and I can't see things improving any time soon. And with that in mind... Scotland will be the first to be thrown to the wolves if things get much worse. Followed by the North of England, then Wales, then middle England, then the south and finally precious London. That's the order of importance.

I'm more concerned with my children's long-term wellbeing and prospects than my own short term comfort... So it's starting to seriously feel like a viable option.

It won't happen though, for one simple reason: most people are in the grips of political apathy, they dont understand the choice they're being asked to make, and when people don't understand a choice they will automatically stick with familiar territory. They feel like that's "safe", that "things are OK as they are". Not realising that the UK is in for some drastic changes either way... Either path is taking a risk.

[Lee.]

I'm being slowly swayed towards independence, to be honest. Not because I think we would he instantly better off - but looking at the long-term prospects it seems like a sensible option. I actually think there would be a good few hard years or even decades to get through the teething problems. However... Currently it feels a lot like - despite the current governments fiddled figures - Britain is a sinking ship. It's still getting worse, economically and politically, especially for average working families, and I can't see things improving any time soon. And with that in mind... Scotland will be the first to be thrown to the wolves if things get much worse. Followed by the North of England, then Wales, then middle England, then the south and finally precious London. That's the order of importance.

I'm more concerned with my children's long-term wellbeing and prospects than my own short term comfort... So it's starting to seriously feel like a viable option.

It won't happen though, for one simple reason: most people are in the grips of political apathy, they dont understand the choice they're being asked to make, and when people don't understand a choice they will automatically stick with familiar territory. They feel like that's "safe", that "things are OK as they are". Not realising that the UK is in for some drastic changes either way... Either path is taking a risk.

I agree completely.. I think the Yes campaigners have to get out there in the next year and target those that are undecided/unaware/scared of change and give them the facts and answers to their questions.

I have friends who don't vote and don't care one way or the other.. Which I'll never understand. I'll personally be voting yes so hopefully my children will grow up in a fair, prosperous and proud country.

[Jesus.]

I agree completely.. I think the Yes campaigners have to get out there in the next year and target those that are undecided/unaware/scared of change and give them the facts and answers to their questions.

I have friends who don't vote and don't care one way or the other.. Which I'll never understand. I'll personally be voting yes so hopefully my children will grow up in a fair, prosperous and proud country.

Are you emigrating?

[arista]

I would rather give the SNP a chance than the shower of **** that England has to chose between tbh

I actually feel closer to the Scottish than Southerners. They (from my experience anyway) are much nicer/friendlier people too.


Yes thats fine.


Of Course the Scotland Vote is just for them


I want them to Win.


Great for Export/Import

[joeysteele]

No the PM has stated
its not a England Vs Scotland fight.
Its Scotland asking its wants to go it alone.

Debate on Radio 5 live now
Alex on it.



The PM is not getting into a Debate with Alex
Fact

Is David Cameron not also the Prime Minister of Scotland as well as England Wales and Northern Ireland.
This is not at all just an English/Scottish matter it is a UK matter and as leader and Prime Minister of the whole UK David Cameron should be clearly willing to lead the fight to keep the whole United Kingdom he was elected to serve and lead united.

If he has any idea at all too he should also be spelling out his plans, if any exist that is,to re-negotiate a better deal for the UK with the EU and detail the benefits as to them staying part of the UK.

He actually owes that to the whole UK and not just to Scotland,he is not just PM of England or part of it, unfortunately he is the PM of the whole UK and he cannot and should not be able to shy away from his responsibilites of keeping the UK together.

My guess is he knows Alex Salmond would and could tie him up in knots on all issues.

[arista]

The UK can go on (including Wales and N. Ireland)


And Scotland can go on free from Westminster

[Z]

I'm being slowly swayed towards independence, to be honest. Not because I think we would he instantly better off - but looking at the long-term prospects it seems like a sensible option. I actually think there would be a good few hard years or even decades to get through the teething problems. However... Currently it feels a lot like - despite the current governments fiddled figures - Britain is a sinking ship. It's still getting worse, economically and politically, especially for average working families, and I can't see things improving any time soon. And with that in mind... Scotland will be the first to be thrown to the wolves if things get much worse. Followed by the North of England, then Wales, then middle England, then the south and finally precious London. That's the order of importance.

I'm more concerned with my children's long-term wellbeing and prospects than my own short term comfort... So it's starting to seriously feel like a viable option.

It won't happen though, for one simple reason: most people are in the grips of political apathy, they dont understand the choice they're being asked to make, and when people don't understand a choice they will automatically stick with familiar territory. They feel like that's "safe", that "things are OK as they are". Not realising that the UK is in for some drastic changes either way... Either path is taking a risk.

This has been my main point whenever I've discussed the idea with friends. People in Scotland haven't been driven to a point where they've challenged their position in the United Kingdom. This has been a political movement by politicians, not a grass roots movement by the people of Scotland. So while there are a great number of people who are for independence with very valid and sound reasoning; they do not outnumber those who are either against it; don't see the point in it; or don't care about it.

However, like you, I've been pushed away from being firmly against independence as I've seen the country descend into a ludicrous farce under David Cameron's leadership. His decision making is going to alienate Scottish people even further and I think that if he continues to do so, people who are hesitant to push for Scottish independence will be kicked off that ship and take the plunge into voting for it. Scotland is not a right wing nation, it never has been and it never will be.

[Jesus.]

This has been my main point whenever I've discussed the idea with friends. People in Scotland haven't been driven to a point where they've challenged their position in the United Kingdom. This has been a political movement by politicians, not a grass roots movement by the people of Scotland. So while there are a great number of people who are for independence with very valid and sound reasoning; they do not outnumber those who are either against it; don't see the point in it; or don't care about it.

However, like you, I've been pushed away from being firmly against independence as I've seen the country descend into a ludicrous farce under David Cameron's leadership. His decision making is going to alienate Scottish people even further and I think that if he continues to do so, people who are hesitant to push for Scottish independence will be kicked off that ship and take the plunge into voting for it. Scotland is not a right wing nation, it never has been and it never will be.

Don't think you're special. He alienates motherlanders just as much as colonists.

[arista]

"going to alienate Scottish people even
further and I think that if he continues
to do so, people who are hesitant
to push for Scottish independence"


Yes Zee
The Fire is Burning


Free Scotland from Westminster

[Z]

Don't think you're special. He alienates motherlanders just as much as colonists.

I don't, but Scotland is the only part of the UK with an active independence drive on the go.

[fingers]

No, arista
there is
no fire
burning.

It died with Thatcher.

another sign

of the times.

[Kizzy]

I like this post :) it's a refreshing change from the all too common attitude of "**** em.. Let them go it alone and see how long they survive without being subsidised by us!" Blah blah blah

Is this aimed at me lee?...
What about the **** you jimmy we have the oil so you can all kiss it blah blah blah?...

[Lee.]

Is this aimed at me lee?...
What about the **** you jimmy we have the oil so you can all kiss it blah blah blah?...

It's not aimed at you at all kizzy.. :conf: I'm referring to comments like this..

http://wingsoverscotland.com/speking-there-branez/

[Alf]

Odds

No to Independence 1/7
Yes to Independence 4/1

[lostalex]

Alex is Live on BBC1HD now

Stop calling him "alex" his name is Mr. Salmond to you.

[lostalex]

unfortunately people are pussies these days. everyone will vote for the status quo.

[arista]

Stop calling him "alex" his name is Mr. Salmond to you.



Alex Salmond


I can call him Alex.
Fact

[fingers]

Stop calling him "alex" his name is Mr. Salmond to you.

He's wee fat Eck up here!

[jackc1806]

Unfortunately, Scotland will fall on its arse without the UK

[Lee.]

Unfortunately, Scotland will fall on its arse without the UK

What makes you say that?

[Z]

I don't think Scotland would fall on its arse without the UK. I think we'd have to expect that there would be a lot of noticeable changes to begin with, perhaps our economy wouldn't be very strong while we worked out the finer details, but ultimately I think we've got more than enough established infrastructure to adapt to being a small, sustainable nation of 5-6 million people.

The more the Conservatives drive the country into the ground, the more I think we'd be better off as an independent country. I detest Alex Salmond and his ploys for attention but he's very good at what he does, you have to give him that.

[jackc1806]

What makes you say that?

Economy wise

[jackc1806]

I don't think Scotland would fall on its arse without the UK. I think we'd have to expect that there would be a lot of noticeable changes to begin with, perhaps our economy wouldn't be very strong while we worked out the finer details, but ultimately I think we've got more than enough established infrastructure to adapt to being a small, sustainable nation of 5-6 million people.

The more the Conservatives drive the country into the ground, the more I think we'd be better off as an independent country. I detest Alex Salmond and his ploys for attention but he's very good at what he does, you have to give him that.

Agree with your point on the Conservatives. I've always thought as Salmond as wanting power tbh

[Lee.]

Economy wise

Oh right.. Well FYI Scotland more than pays her way as part of the Uk and actually gets back less than we put in.

[lostalex]

Scotland would be just fine not being part of the UK, they'd still have a very special relationship with England, obviously. Just like America and Canada are still very close, even though Canada is a separate country.

I'm sure Scotland and England could negotiate partnerships economically and militarily, just like The USA and Canada have partnerships like NAFTA and NORAD.

[MTVN]

Scotland would be very reliant on their oil if they did get become independent, and that's such an unstable market that it doesn't really offer that much economic security, the richest reserves of the oil have already been used

What happens with the likes of HBOS and RBS as well, who needed the British government to bail them out when they racked up such massive debts? Plus Britain is trusted as an important and secure economic power, an independent Scotland would miss out on that and find it harder

Scotland being independent would only harm them economically imo, and most of the arguments for independence seem to mainly be based on emotional nationalism and resentment of the power and importance of London in the UK. I especially can't stand Salmond, seems to just have a big chip on his shoulder :idc:

[Novo]

Scotland would also end up having conflicts like Ireland if it were to go Independent, The Unionists in Scotland would team up with the Unionist in Northern Ireland and they would drive the Nationalists into the sea and then we would eventually have peace so this could be a good thing

[lostalex]

Scotland would be very reliant on their oil if they did get become independent, and that's such an unstable market that it doesn't really offer that much economic security, the richest reserves of the oil have already been used

What happens with the likes of HBOS and RBS as well, who needed the British government to bail them out when they racked up such massive debts? Plus Britain is trusted as an important and secure economic power, an independent Scotland would miss out on that and find it harder

Scotland being independent would only harm them economically imo, and most of the arguments for independence seem to mainly be based on emotional nationalism and resentment of the power and importance of London in the UK. I especially can't stand Salmond, seems to just have a big chip on his shoulder :idc:


oil is an unstable market?? lol, no, actually having a resources based economy is very stable. the only reason Canada and Australia did so well compared to the rest of the world from the 2008 financial crisis is because they both have resources based economies. Scotland would have actually been better off not being so deeply connected to the London financial system.

[joeysteele]

Oh right.. Well FYI Scotland more than pays her way as part of the Uk and actually gets back less than we put in.

I totally agree with you.
I also think Scotland has had some very raw deals from UK Govts. of both main parties, often being the experimental area for unsavoury policies.

[MTVN]

oil is an unstable market?? lol, no, actually having a resources based economy is very stable. the only reason Canada and Australia did so well compared to the rest of the world from the 2008 financial crisis is because they both have resources based economies. Scotland would have actually been better off not being so deeply connected to the London financial system.

It's unstable to be so reliant on it because any shifts in prices or sudden changes will have a massive effect, and the fact that the richest reserves have gone makes it more uncertain

http://www.economist.com/node/21552564

[the truth]

If they vote for independence , then I believe they will be better off for it. A richer Scotland will help the rest of the Uk as we wil continue to trade with them as much as ever.

[lostalex]

It's unstable to be so reliant on it because any shifts in prices or sudden changes will have a massive effect, and the fact that the richest reserves have gone makes it more uncertain

http://www.economist.com/node/21552564

tell that to Australia and Canada. They both emerged from the crisis relatively unscathed. The only real negative effect on them was the rise of their own currency, which isn't the worst problem in the world to have.

[lostalex]

If they vote for independence , then I believe they will be better off for it. A richer Scotland will help the rest of the Uk as we wil continue to trade with them as much as ever.

wow, first time for everything... I agree with thetruth.

[James]

I don't want Scotland to be independent.

I can think of a few reasons, possible negative consequences or unanswered questions.

Would there be an open border with England? Would you need a passport to cross the border?

Would companies be allowed to trade freely with England?

Would Scottish people be able to work or be educated at university freely in England or would there be restrictions?

Would Scotland have its own currency and central bank which would set interest rates?

Would Scotland be able to defend itself?

What would happen to broadcasting - would we still get the BBC?

Above all, the question I would ask is, What is so bad about Britain?

I also think it is a mistake for some to believe that if Scotland was independent it would always have a left or centre-left government just because of the parties it votes for now. The whole political landscape would change and Scotland would be making its own decisions on a range of other issues which could change the way people vote.

[lostalex]

I don't want Scotland to be independent.

I can think of a few reasons, possible negative consequences or unanswered questions.

Would there be an open border with England? Would you need a passport to cross the border?

Would companies be allowed to trade freely with England?

Would Scottish people be able to work or be educated at university freely in England or would there be restrictions?

Would Scotland have its own currency and central bank which would set interest rates?

Would Scotland be able to defend itself?

Above all, the question I would ask is, What is so bad about Britain?

I also think it is a mistake for some to believe that if Scotland was independent it would always have a left or centre-left government just because of the parties it votes for now. The whole political landscape would change and Scotland would be making its own decisions on a range of other issues which could change the way people vote.

most of these questions are just silly. ofcourse there would be open borders, Scotland would be part of the EU, so of course just like all EU countries, you can travel freely. Also of course the EU has free trade between all european nations, including England. Most of your questions are solved once Scotland becaomes a member of the EU which i'm sure they would do immediately if they choose to be independent.

Would Scotland be able to defend itself? from who? or what? Scotland is still on the same island, so of course England would never allow a foreign country to invade Scotland, because it would be just as much a threat to England.

[Vicky.]

most of these questions are just silly. ofcourse there would be open borders, Scotland would be part of the EU, so of course just like all EU countries, you can travel freely.

Would Scotland be able to defend itself? from who? or what?

Still need a passport to travel to other parts of the EU though

[Z]

Joining the EU can be a very lengthy process because the requirements for entry have changed since the UK joined; Scotland would need to meet a lot of criteria in order to accede to union membership. It might not take as long as it has done for the likes of Croatia but it could be a number of years away.

[James]

'What would happen to broadcasting - would we still get the BBC?' I've add that one to my list of questions.

[lostalex]

Still need a passport to travel to other parts of the EU though

well i don't think England is gonna set up border guards asking to see it. I'm sure England and Scotland would agree to keep all roadways and railways as free and open as possible.

You guys make it sound like all of a sudden there would be this hard border between countries, i don't think either country wants that.

It will be like travel between Northern Ireland(UK) and the Republic of Ireland.

[James]

Initially yes. But if Scotland adopted a more open immigration policy, for example, it could lead to a closed border. Or different duties and taxes on things could lead to more restrictions to stop smuggling.

[arista]

'What would happen to broadcasting - would we still get the BBC?' I've add that one to my list of questions.


Yes via Sky

[fingers]

....in his palatial Edinburgh office:

vLqnZnWM24Y


:devil::joker::devil:

[James]

Yes via Sky

What about Freeview?

[joeysteele]

I don't want Scotland to be independent.

I can think of a few reasons, possible negative consequences or unanswered questions.

Would there be an open border with England? Would you need a passport to cross the border?

Would companies be allowed to trade freely with England?

Would Scottish people be able to work or be educated at university freely in England or would there be restrictions?

Would Scotland have its own currency and central bank which would set interest rates?

Would Scotland be able to defend itself?

What would happen to broadcasting - would we still get the BBC?

Above all, the question I would ask is, What is so bad about Britain?

I also think it is a mistake for some to believe that if Scotland was independent it would always have a left or centre-left government just because of the parties it votes for now. The whole political landscape would change and Scotland would be making its own decisions on a range of other issues which could change the way people vote.

I think you raise a lot of issues and valid ones.

However I still believe myself that no way will more than 40% at the very highest vote for independence in next years referendum.

I think it would be bad for the UK overall and also in a lot of ways for Scotland to choose independence.
Being of Scottish ancestry on my Dad's side and having a good number of friends and relatives living all over Scotland, none of them are voting for independence and I just cannot see the Scots wanting to break away completely.

I do believe they warrant better treatment and more respect from the Westminster Govt. and I would hope that will be forthcoming too.

[Lee.]

James, here's a good sight with answers to common questions re independence..

http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-opinion/4341-a-unionist-lexicon-an-a-z-of-unionist-scare-stories-myths-and-misinformation

[the truth]

I don't want Scotland to be independent.

I can think of a few reasons, possible negative consequences or unanswered questions.

Would there be an open border with England? Would you need a passport to cross the border?

Would companies be allowed to trade freely with England?

Would Scottish people be able to work or be educated at university freely in England or would there be restrictions?

Would Scotland have its own currency and central bank which would set interest rates?

Would Scotland be able to defend itself?

What would happen to broadcasting - would we still get the BBC?

Above all, the question I would ask is, What is so bad about Britain?

I also think it is a mistake for some to believe that if Scotland was independent it would always have a left or centre-left government just because of the parties it votes for now. The whole political landscape would change and Scotland would be making its own decisions on a range of other issues which could change the way people vote.

1. open border - yes
2. education is different in Scotland wales and England anyway, they control that in these countries
3. Scotland would still be part of the british armed forces. though they would probably have a few of their own regiments too
4.bbc. probably. totally over rated bloated wasteful organization, that outside the odd wildlife documentary has barely produced a quality show in years. where are the opportunity for writers? what idiot is driving the bbc news agenda? it tells you nothing
5. I doubt theyd go with euro but its complex... it prints its own money , it would still be sterling. I think interest rates would remain under the control of the bank of England.

[arista]

[Independent Scotland would keep sterling, says Alex Salmond
First minister launches blueprint for Scottish independence promising 'a new and better direction for our nation']

Today the Scottish white paper is out


http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2013/11/26/1385461952931/Alex-Salmond-reveals-the--009.jpg


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/26/scottish-indpendence-fairer-prosperous-alex-salmond

[fingers]

Anyone who pays the slightest attention to that fishy pair Salmond & Sturgeon needs their head examined. Punch and Judy spring to mind, but THEY talk more sense than wee fat Eck and his thin lipped cohort.

[Livia]

I think Mr Salmond takes an awful lot for granted...

[fingers]

I think Mr Salmond takes an awful lot for granted...

Pie in the Sky is his favourite food.

[Livia]

Pie in the Sky is his favourite food.

Well, some kind of pie, obviously......................

[fingers]

Well, some kind of pie, obviously......................

The kind and size that Desperate Dan prefers!

http://saffronbunny.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/desperate_dan.jpg

[Nedusa]

Why would any Scottish person living in Scotland NOT want to see their Country ruled by them.

Who in their right mind after being occupied for over 300 years would NOT want to be finally free of English rule ??

Who in Scotland would actually Vote to continue to be "occupied" ???

I think this is a NO BRAINER...........!!!!!

[fingers]

Why would any Scottish person living in Scotland NOT want to see their Country ruled by them.

Who in their right mind after being occupied for over 300 years would NOT want to be finally free of English rule ??

Who in Scotland would actually Vote to continue to be "occupied" ???

I think this is a NO BRAINER...........!!!!!

ME and probably 60-70% of my compatriots!

[Nedusa]

ME and probably 60-70% of my compatriots!

Really..........how sad is that !!!!!

Why would so many so called Scotsmen and Scotswomen want to vote to keep being told what to do by a foreign country ??

It makes no sense.....!!!!!

[fingers]

Really..........how sad is that !!!!!

Why would so many so called Scotsmen and Scotswomen want to vote to keep being told what to do by a foreign country ??

It makes no sense.....!!!!!

You really have no idea what you are talking about, and I am certainly not going to be drawn into a pointless argument.

[Nedusa]

You really have no idea what you are talking about, and I am certainly not going to be drawn into a pointless argument.

I'm sorry..........I think my words are fairly clear and my sentiments felt by millions of Scottish people in Scotland

And to call it a pointless argument is arrogant on your part in the extreme !!!

Or do you hold such a strong argument that it's pointless to even debate it because you'd have to be an idiot not to agree with YOU

Either way your need to offer a little more by way of reply than just a few arrogant sentences.........!!!!

[Josy]

Really..........how sad is that !!!!!

Why would so many so called Scotsmen and Scotswomen want to vote to keep being told what to do by a foreign country ??

It makes no sense.....!!!!!

Could the bolded part be any more provocative?

What makes no sense is voting for independence for our country, which if independent would end up a total mess, we would struggle financially, people that depend on benefits and free nhs treatment/prescriptions could potentially suffer, we can't afford to be independent.

The truth is we would be a poor country.

And before anyone mentions the north sea oil, that's hardly a dependable income.

I love being Scottish and I love my country but I want it to remain as part of the UK.

Most people that want independence have been watching too much Braveheart MIO.

[arista]

Good he is getting the younger ones to vote, though

[Josy]

Good he is getting the younger ones to vote, though

It's not good for Scotland, it's dangerous.

[arista]

Could the bolded part be any more provocative?

What makes no sense is voting for independence for our country, which if independent would end up a total mess, we would struggle financially, people that depend on benefits and free nhs treatment/prescriptions could potentially suffer, we can't afford to be independent.

The truth is we would be a poor country.

And before anyone mentions the north sea oil, that's hardly a dependable income.

I love being Scottish and I love my country but I want it to remain as part of the UK.

Most people that want independence have been watching too much Braveheart MIO.


You will still be in the UK
but your bills will
will be far less
you will have more Cash

[fingers]

You will still be in the UK
but your bills will
will be far less
you will have more Cash

You don't know what you are talking about, either.

[Josy]

You will still be in the UK
but your bills will
will be far less
you will have more Cash

No we wont have more cash Arista, I have no idea how you come up with that?

We will struggle financially.

[arista]

No we wont have more cash Arista, I have no idea how you come up with that?

We will struggle financially.


Ignore that British Propaganda


your bills will all get lower

[Josy]

Ignore that British Propaganda


your bills will all get lower

What propaganda?

And no they wont.

[Lee.]

No we wont have more cash Arista, I have no idea how you come up with that?

We will struggle financially.

We wouldn't.. We'd be one of the wealthiest countries on the EU. Even Cameron and Isbourne have been forced to admit it.

There is a very good reason Westminster don't want an independent Scotland..

[Lee.]

What propaganda?

And no they wont.

The scaremongering from the Better Together campaign and the BBC

[fingers]

We wouldn't.. We'd be one of the wealthiest countries on the EU. Even Cameron and Isbourne have been forced to admit it.

There is a very good reason Westminster don't want an independent Scotland..

Where's all that WEALTH going to appear from?

[arista]

The scaremongering from the Better Together campaign and the BBC



Bang On Right
Wise Lee

[Josy]

We wouldn't.. We'd be one of the wealthiest countries on the EU. Even Cameron and Isbourne have been forced to admit it.

There is a very good reason Westminster don't want an independent Scotland..

Where would this money be coming from Lee?

[Jemal]

Dont Scotland have a fair amount of oil?

[Josy]

Dont Scotland have a fair amount of oil?

Oil isn't going to last forever.

[Lee.]

Well.. We'll start off with the 57 billion pounds tax revenue which would be kept in Scotland to be spent in Scotland.. On top of that we have North Sea oil revenue, an ever growing service sector, fishing, tourism, agriculture, natural energy etc etc.. We're really not a small, stupid country..

[arista]

Dont Scotland have a fair amount of oil?

Yes there will be fight over some of it
as its in the Sea
and Owned by Internationals

[Jemal]

Oil isn't going to last forever.

Still abit valuable while it does last tbfh

[Jemal]

Yes there will be fight over some it
as its in the Sea
and Owned by Internationals

Ooo

[arista]

Today is Historic Day
as this massive document is now out.


296 days
to pick

[Josy]

Well.. We'll start off with the 57 billion pounds tax revenue which would be kept in Scotland to be spent in Scotland.. On top of that we have North Sea oil revenue, an ever growing service sector, fishing, tourism, agriculture, natural energy etc etc.. We're really not a small, stupid country..

No we aren't a small stupid country but we don't have as much wealth as some seem to think, not all of the north sea oil belongs to us either.

[Jemal]

Still don't think Scotland will go independent anyways.

[arista]

Still don't think Scotland will go independent anyways.



But we have to see what Scotland will get.



BBC Local Scotland News is now on for a Hour
As under TV Rules they must show both sides of this Debate

[fingers]

I'm not interested in anything that wee fat Eck or his thin lipped cohort says>

[arista]

I'm not interested in anything that wee fat Eck or his thin lipped cohort says>


Sure
no problem

[Lee.]

Still abit valuable while it does last tbfh

Very valuable.. Probably in the trillions.. And new oil fields have been dud covered off the coast of the Shetland Isles.

[Nedusa]

Could the bolded part be any more provocative?

What makes no sense is voting for independence for our country, which if independent would end up a total mess, we would struggle financially, people that depend on benefits and free nhs treatment/prescriptions could potentially suffer, we can't afford to be independent.

The truth is we would be a poor country.

And before anyone mentions the north sea oil, that's hardly a dependable income.

I love being Scottish and I love my country but I want it to remain as part of the UK.

Most people that want independence have been watching too much Braveheart MIO.

No ... No .... No you are a bit sad and misguided if you cannot appreciate this opportunity to get your Country back after being told what to do by your bigger richer neighbour for over 300 years...!!!

It's as simple as that really it is!!!! Forget the money this ain't about money it's about a nation deciding its own future standing on its own legs and shaping its own destiny ....

For gods sake take the opportunity and grab it with both hands and stop worrying about the possible teething problems...

All Scottish people must surely want to rule their own country

C'mon c'mon its a no brainer vote YES to an independant Scotland

Finally ....!!!!!!

[joeysteele]

I still firmly believe and hope too that Scotland votes to remain part of the UK.
I still doubt that more than 40% of Scots who vote, will vote for independence.

However, I have great admiration for Alex Salmond and I believe the more arrogant at Westminster underestimate how good a politician he really is.
I haven't any time for Nicola Sturgeon but I do consider Alex Salmond very persuasive,if anyone can make a really close battle as to this then he certainly can,especially if the Prime Minister of the UK sits back and does and says nothing or very little.

David Cameron may yet go down in history to be such an even more disastrous PM of the UK that he opened the door to the break up of the UK but also allowed it to happen with little resistance..

[Shaun]

Very valuable.. Probably in the trillions.

...are you mad, Lee? Trillions?

[Lee.]

...are you mad, Lee? Trillions?

I'm reasonably sane thank you very much. Yes, trillions.

[Lee.]

I'll tell you what is crazy though.. Scotland is the only country in the world to have discovered oil and become poorer :crazy:

[Livia]

Interesting to see a statistic today that says when questioned, a higher percentage of English people want to see Scotland leave the UK, than Scottish people want to leave.

[Livia]

I'll tell you what is crazy though.. Scotland is the only country in the world to have discovered oil and become poorer :crazy:

I thought it was British Petroleum that found the oil.

[fingers]

Wee fat Eck's brainwashing tactics unfortunately sometimes find fertile imaginations.

[Toy Soldier]

Interesting to see a statistic today that says when questioned, a higher percentage of English people want to see Scotland leave the UK, than Scottish people want to leave.

English people being xenophobic?? No! Never! I refuse to believe your cruel slander.

[Toy Soldier]

My thoughts on it recently, are that it's probably worth taking the risk, just because no one ever gets anything without being bold.

Either Scotland gets independence and prospers, OR it goes tits up and everyone is worse off... But at least there's the CHANCE of prosperity.

The other option ... Nothing changes and we plod on forever with things being "a bit rubbish". Scotland may have a solid and "safe" foundation as part of the UK but it will never truly flourish. Ever. It will just continue to be a bit drab, and sad. I find modern Scotland just tragic. The scenery and the countryside is simply stunning... But then you enter any of the towns and villages and they are utterly depressing. Cold, grey ****holes full of miserable, addicted people.

Somewhere along the line, things have gone very wrong, and frankly... As long as Scotland is governed by London... Nothing is ever going to improve.

Independence is a massive risk. But who prospers without risk? The "safe" alternative ... is utterly bleak.

[arista]

Interesting to see a statistic today that says when questioned, a higher percentage of English people want to see Scotland leave the UK, than Scottish people want to leave.




Yes as it would save us Big Money.

[Lee.]

English people being xenophobic?? No! Never! I refuse to believe your cruel slander.

I don't look on it as xenophobia.. They simply believe what they're told from the government; that England subsidise us, we're reliant in Westminster handouts etc.. The very same government who are so agains Scotland going it alone? :suspect:

[Toy Soldier]

Yes as it would save us Big Money.


If this was true, there would be no independence battle. London would be all for it.

[Toy Soldier]

I don't look on it as xenophobia.. They simply believe what they're told from the government; that England subsidise us, we're reliant in Westminster handouts etc.. The very same government who are so agains Scotland going it alone? :suspect:

True but believing propaganda and basing negative opinions on it isn't a million miles from xenophobia, is it? "get rid of them jocks, subsidised by us English taxpayers!" has the same ring to it as the usual "immigrants out, coming here and taking our jobs!!" lark.

[Lee.]

I've honestly heard more intelligent debate than this down my local pub..

This is truly appalling! Biased, patronising, insulting and vastly unresearched drivel !!

http://wingsoverscotland.com/welcome-to-the-debate/#more-45015

[arista]

"What did Ronni Anconi say? I can’t stand Madeley so I am not going to watch it. I reckon some Scots in London will just tell the MSM what they want to hear."


Yes Ronni a Secret Scot
on Ch5HD yesterday
very funny

http://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/wrightstuff-460x259.jpg

[Donald Kerr says:
27 November, 2013 at 6:22 pm

Welcome to the debate Katie (What a gift!) – Here’s a couple of tweets:
—
Katie Hopkins @KTHopkins
Nicole Sturgeon could frighten a man to infertility.
—
Katie Hopkins @KTHopkins
Here is the blueprint for an Independent Scotland. It is 647 pages long. Waterstones are carrying it in the Fiction section.
—
This footage deserves to be spread far and wide.]


Katie is a Witch

[Kizzy]

According to the news Spain is making it more difficult than England as they are insisting Scotland will have to leave the EU and rejoin.
My feeling is united we stand, divided we fall. What's wrong with a certain amount of autonomy without being a totally separate country?

[arista]

According to the news Spain is making it more difficult than England as they are insisting Scotland will have to leave the EU and rejoin.
My feeling is united we stand, divided we fall. What's wrong with a certain amount of autonomy without being a totally separate country?


Its down to all those that have not picked a side
so many are not sure yet


all to play for.

[Lee.]

Did you watch the actual "debate" at the top if that page Arista? I loathe hopkins

[arista]

Did you watch the actual "debate" at the top if that page Arista? I loathe hopkins


Yes I record it
of course Hopkins will piss people off
Ronni was funny.


You can watch that show on this Ch5 site/wright stuff
that Scottish debate is the start
after a talk with Ronni.

http://www.channel5.com/shows/the-wright-stuff

[joeysteele]

According to the news Spain is making it more difficult than England as they are insisting Scotland will have to leave the EU and rejoin.
My feeling is united we stand, divided we fall. What's wrong with a certain amount of autonomy without being a totally separate country?

Well that is a problem that Alex Salmond does need to address,Spain is likely correct in what it said.

Scotland is not a singular part of the EU, it is one of the Nations involved in the UK and it is the UK which is the member state.
Should Scotland leave the UK then it cannot possibly have voting rights in the EU after that until it is a member in its own right.

Scotland will in effect, if it votes to leave the UK be a different State altogether so will by that action also leave the EU being no longer a part of the accepted member State that is the United Kingdom.

I doubt that the EU would not permit them to join but it would I guess have to be that they would have to apply to join if independent, like any other Sate would.
That process meantime will not likely help the Scottish economy in the immediate short term..

[Kizzy]

Well that might be an end to it as if it's unacceptable to share resources with the rest of the UK the whole of the EU has no chance.

[fingers]

Meanwhile wee fat Eck continues peddling his Pie in the Sky for all those who think he's sussed it!

[Z]

According to the news Spain is making it more difficult than England as they are insisting Scotland will have to leave the EU and rejoin.
My feeling is united we stand, divided we fall. What's wrong with a certain amount of autonomy without being a totally separate country?

I wonder what Catalonian shaped reason that could be for? :laugh:

I dunno, every passing day I feel more inclined to vote for independence. People telling us we can't do it and scoffing at the idea is patronising, I think the Better Together campaign needs to put some serious work in over the next year because I think they're seriously underestimating the SNP and the Yes campaign. Scotland's traditionally always been a left wing country and I think a combination of the hype the SNP are creating and the fact we've got a bizarre right wing-left wing government that nobody voted for, mostly dominated by the right wing, could potentially push a lot of undecided voters into voting for independence.

[Kizzy]

I've been thinking... (v dangerous I know) I've an awful feeling Scottish independence is a sneaky way of getting us out of Europe without a referendum...
If Scots do vote in favour of independence then they will have to re-apply for EU membership, but maybe they won't?
That way David Cameron could let recruitment agencies set up there bypassing work and wage laws, trade and other restrictions in place atm.

[arista]

I've been thinking... (v dangerous I know) I've an awful feeling Scottish independence is a sneaky way of getting us out of Europe without a referendum...
If Scots do vote in favour of independence then they will have to re-apply for EU membership, but maybe they won't?
That way David Cameron could let recruitment agencies set up there bypassing work and wage laws, trade and other restrictions in place atm.


No they will not have to

Also
SNP Scotland Nation

Kill Labour Forever
Bliss

[Toy Soldier]

No they will not have to

Also
SNP Scotland Nation

Kill Labour Forever
Bliss

You actually make a good point there; Scotland would most likely continue along "two party" lines, swinging between SNP and Labour... but what would happen in the rest of the UK? A large chunk of the Labour vote comes from north of the border... Tories would be in a very strong position in England.

[arista]

srBk-f50LYM




Check out Limmy

[lostalex]

My mom's family is Scottish, so i'm kinda scottish....this is how i feel

http://www.energyco-ops.ie/trialblog/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/flags-scotland-scottish-flag-scotch-st-andrews-ask-and-you-shall-receive-desktop-1920x1200-wallpaper-255163.jpg

[Vicky.]

No they will not have to

Also
SNP Scotland Nation

Kill Labour Forever
Bliss

I would emigrate if I was damned to a lifelong tory government tbh. I imagine a lot of other working class people would too.

[lostalex]

I would emigrate if I was damned to a lifelong tory government tbh. I imagine a lot of other working class people would too.

well make sure it's before Cameron tries to halt EU freedom of movement in the UK.

[Vicky.]

well make sure it's before Cameron tries to halt EU freedom of movement in the UK.

Oh good god you are right. What if I am stuck here forever, damned to a life of Cameron and IDS and whichever smug twats takes their place when they retire on fat pensions laughing all the way to the bank :umm2:

[joeysteele]

I would emigrate if I was damned to a lifelong tory government tbh. I imagine a lot of other working class people would too.

First of all to arista, actually it wouldn't kill off Labour at all,the 1997 and 2001 election victories for Labour would still have been considerable overall majorities for labour even without all the Scottish seats and votes.
Even in 2005, Labour would likely have scraped home, you have to realise that the Lib Dem seats and the odd Conservative ones would be gone from the equation too as well as the SNP'S.

As to Vicky's point above, I still believe the Scots will reject independence. However if by some really awful backward miracle it looked like the Conservatives had any chance at all of winning the 2015 election then that may sway some undecided voters to go for independence.

Further to Vicky's point, I am still sad there is still over a year of this Govt to go yet and I have to console myself, for the most vulnerable in the UK, that at least they will be gone in 2015.
I couldn't,I think, bear this lot in for a single year more past 2015 let alone be in for good.

[arista]

srBk-f50LYM




Check out Limmy


PM David Cameron is on this

[arista]

Amazing The Chancellor Osborne (was just Live ) talking Bollocks

Osborne Warns Scotland: No Union, No Pound


http://news.sky.com/story/1210805/osborne-warns-scotland-no-union-no-pound

[smeagol]

what has scotland given us except scotch eggs sea connery and tramps lol

i think its nuts. scotland is part of england. why do people create divides might as well give birmingham country status lol

[Z]

Scotland is not part of England :nono:

[Kizzy]

Why does everyone hate England?... :laugh:

[Z]

Because so many English people refer to Scotland as part of England :joker:

[Kyle]

I think they should go for Independence. Maybe I will see less hostility towards my accent whenever I'm up there if they do.

[Kizzy]

Because so many English people refer to Scotland as part of England :joker:

part of Great Britain ... it's not a good enough reason to prove a point to ignorant people, I can't see why deepening a divide would benefit anyone though.

[Z]

part of Great Britain ... it's not a good enough reason to prove a point to ignorant people, I can't see why deepening a divide would benefit anyone though.

Tongue was firmly in cheek there :tongue: I don't hate English people and don't think we should leave the United Kingdom, personally.

[arista]

Tongue was firmly in cheek there :tongue: I don't hate English people and don't think we should leave the United Kingdom, personally.



You will still be part of UK
but with more Freedom
srBk-f50LYM


Zee meet Limmy

[MTVN]

Our curling teams will be screwed for the next Olympics if Scotland do become independent

[Z]

You will still be part of UK
but with more Freedom
srBk-f50LYM


Zee meet Limmy

I've never really found Limmy that funny

Our curling teams will be screwed for the next Olympics if Scotland do become independent

Don't even mention the elephant polo squad, it's gonna be a nightmare

[Kizzy]

What about Rab C Nesbit? :joker:

[arista]

But Limmy has a Good Point he does trust the PM

[arista]

3WAoMXHILts


RT today


Frankie is from 11mins

[Kyle]

Didn't Limmy's brother get arrested a few weeks ago for calling Angela Haggerty 'taig of the day' or something?

[joeysteele]

Technically Scotland won't be part of the UK if it leaves the UK,in fact there won't be UK in the real sense of the term.

The United Kingdom is made up from England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland,under one main overseeing governing body,namely the UK Govt.
If that Govt cannot speak at all for Scotland then Scotland clearly is no longer part of it.
Come to think of it, there is likely no Great Britain either, since Great Britain consists of England,Scotland and Wales.

I hope the Scots vote to stay in union with the other Countries that make up the present UK.
I don't think this kind of political threatening to Scotland as to the pound are helpful at all either.
If we are going to clearly still trade with the Scots if independent, also if we desire to have cordial relations with them too then it makes sense to do what is practical and also in the best interests of the rest of the broken up United Kingdom.

For me I would say Scotland has been a strong good influence and successful part of what is presently the UK.
I feel Govts of all parties when in Govt. have served the Scots really badly actually,often using the Scots as guinea pigs as to unpleasant and controversial policies.

I still think the Scots will vote to stay,however if George Osborne gets to make many more stupid and badly worded threats then it may well be those who want to leave the union,will near all get out and vote to do so with a much smaller proportion of those favouring staying making the effort to go and vote for same.

I do think, if there was a result for independence,it will cause big problems for the other Countries that made up the original UK.
For David Cameron however, to be the presiding PM, who saw in a referendum and then had the Scots vote for independence, that will be seen as a massive failure over time as to his term of Premiership.

Quite frankly, all I see is Alex Salmond almost brilliantly just running rings round David Cameron as to all aspects of this vote for independence.
Cameron's leadership on this so far has been pathetic and he is the so called Prime Minister of the United Kingdom.

[arista]

Didn't Limmy's brother get arrested a few weeks ago for calling Angela Haggerty 'taig of the day' or something?


could be

Limmy is busy of tours

[Nedusa]

Not matter how well the Yes supporters to Independence fare in the polls no matter how high the final polls put the Yes vote.... the result is not in doubt... under NO circumstances will Scotland be allowed to break up the UK.

The vote will in all likelihood give the No vote a 60:40 or 65:35 outcome.

By hook or by crook this will be the result as there is too much at stake to allow 5M Scots to change the destiny of 60M British people. every trick in the book will be used to bribe,scare,cajole,intimidate,bully,seduce the scottish people into staying in the Union.

If all that fails then I believe the vote itself will be subltly manipulated to achieve this outcome.

Anyone wanna bet against me ???

[joeysteele]

Not matter how well the Yes supporters to Independence fare in the polls no matter how high the final polls put the Yes vote.... the result is not in doubt... under NO circumstances will Scotland be allowed to break up the UK.

The vote will in all likelihood give the No vote a 60:40 or 65:35 outcome.

By hook or by crook this will be the result as there is too much at stake to allow 5M Scots to change the destiny of 60M British people. every trick in the book will be used to bribe,scare,cajole,intimidate,bully,seduce the scottish people into staying in the Union.

If all that fails then I believe the vote itself will be subltly manipulated to achieve this outcome.

Anyone wanna bet against me ???

No, I think like you that there is a 60-40 against independence,I just hope that enough of them go out to vote.

However, if this Govt. and indeed all the other parties spokesmen starts to politically almost blackmail the Scots as to things like the pound and then other economic factors too then I can see the strengthening of the independence vote.

I really hope they vote against independence and then help the rest of the UK outside the South of England to get rid of this totally heartless and rotten Govt.
Then I hope in light of this independence vote that a future Govt will start to treat the Scots with more respect too.

[Cherie]

I think when it comes to the crunch the majority will want to stay in the Union.

[Lee.]

PM David Cameron is on this

:joker:
Sorry Arista.. I wasn't blanking you, I just haven't been around much.

Here's one for you.. A London cabbie's take on Scottish independence.. :joker:

NjbuTckpcDI

[arista]

I love that Limmy one

[Lee.]

Technically Scotland won't be part of the UK if it leaves the UK,in fact there won't be UK in the real sense of the term.

The United Kingdom is made up from England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland,under one main overseeing governing body,namely the UK Govt.
If that Govt cannot speak at all for Scotland then Scotland clearly is no longer part of it.
Come to think of it, there is likely no Great Britain either, since Great Britain consists of England,Scotland and Wales.

I hope the Scots vote to stay in union with the other Countries that make up the present UK.
I don't think this kind of political threatening to Scotland as to the pound are helpful at all either.
If we are going to clearly still trade with the Scots if independent, also if we desire to have cordial relations with them too then it makes sense to do what is practical and also in the best interests of the rest of the broken up United Kingdom.

For me I would say Scotland has been a strong good influence and successful part of what is presently the UK.
I feel Govts of all parties when in Govt. have served the Scots really badly actually,often using the Scots as guinea pigs as to unpleasant and controversial policies.

I still think the Scots will vote to stay,however if George Osborne gets to make many more stupid and badly worded threats then it may well be those who want to leave the union,will near all get out and vote to do so with a much smaller proportion of those favouring staying making the effort to go and vote for same.

I do think, if there was a result for independence,it will cause big problems for the other Countries that made up the original UK.
For David Cameron however, to be the presiding PM, who saw in a referendum and then had the Scots vote for independence, that will be seen as a massive failure over time as to his term of Premiership.

Quite frankly, all I see is Alex Salmond almost brilliantly just running rings round David Cameron as to all aspects of this vote for independence.
Cameron's leadership on this so far has been pathetic and he is the so called Prime Minister of the United Kingdom.
:thumbs: the Tory boys are doing more good than harm to the yes campaign.

[Z]

Yeah I think they're going about it in the wrong way and I wouldn't be surprised if, closer to the time, Salmond starts an aggressive PR campaign pointing out how the Tories don't want what's best for Scottish people because they're really making it too easy for the SNP at the moment... that's not to say I think the SNP are going to win this referendum vote but the Tories are definitely making it easier for them to drum up support among undecided voters

[Kizzy]

Do you think it's just the Scots that want to get away from the tories?....
I demand that the boundry includes Yorkshire! :joker:

[Lee.]

Yeah I think they're going about it in the wrong way and I wouldn't be surprised if, closer to the time, Salmond starts an aggressive PR campaign pointing out how the Tories don't want what's best for Scottish people because they're really making it too easy for the SNP at the moment... that's not to say I think the SNP are going to win this referendum vote but the Tories are definitely making it easier for them to drum up support among undecided voters

A)the SNP don't need to make that point. The majority of scots don't want a Tory government, and never have. At the moment our vote is irrelevant though..

B) On September 18th, we are NOT voting for the SNP or Alex Salmond. We are voting YES or NO. We will then, like any other normal democratic nation, elect who we want to run our country. Our votes will count, and we will be a fairer, more equal nation.

[Lee.]

Do you think it's just the Scots that want to get away from the tories?....
I demand that the boundry includes Yorkshire! :joker:

Kizzy, a lot of my English friends feel the same. If you were in my position right now, being given a HUGE opportunity to get rid of the Tories/Westminster and the inequality etc.. Wouldn't you grab it??

[Kizzy]

No I wouldn't, to me it seems like rats wanting to desert a sinking ship.
It's not just the tories that are an issue for Scotland is it? the rest of Europe have said that their position in the union will have to be redefined if they do decide to cut loose...
How do you see it panning out, all the Scots sat in palaces built with your oil money whilst the rest of Britain flounders under this government?

[James]

A)the SNP don't need to make that point. The majority of scots don't want a Tory government, and never have. At the moment our vote is irrelevant though..



1955 General Election (http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/1955_general_election.htm). Labour and Tories were pretty close in votes in Scotland up until the 80s and 90s.

There's no guarantee that an independent Scotland would never vote for a right/centre-right government. The whole political landscape would change and a Scottish government would deciding policies on a whole range of issues that they don't at the moment. Governments would vary between left wing and right wing, just like they do in other European countries.

An SNP guy said recently, by the way, in the event of a yes vote, they want the next UK General Election delayed for a year.

[Kizzy]

I'm guessing the same would happen in Scotland as happened in withenshaw and UKIP get the right wing vote.

[joeysteele]

In reality for a good while now it is the South of England just out of London that has decided elections.
Since the 80s they have inflicted Conservative Govts on Wales, Scotland and the North of England too.

Without that bastion of seats down there it is the Conservatives who would likely never have any chance of winning elections.
As James said, in 1955 the Conservatives had a good strong presence in Scotland which largely carried on until Margaret Thatcher's time really.

It was the then using the Scottish Nation as guinea pigs for her less desirable policies that really opened up the door for the SNP and saw the Conservatives failing there and now to the point where they have I believe only 1 seat in Scotland.

They do nothing to address that, almost as if they don't care, relying on their support only in the South to see them through.
Even not winning the last election outright, still has them ignoring their demise in the big cities and Wales and Scotland while adopting policies that only seem to appeal to their hardliner support in the South.

I agree with Lee too, that the more the Conservatives come out with arrogant,ill advised and almost politically blackmailing comments such as Osborne has then that will only help the 'yes' campaign.

I also think myself, if Scotland voted for independence that the European Union would do all it could to help Scotland get in place what it needs to develop a secure status for itself and also fasttrack it to EU membership too
This is now looking like a referendum that is going to backfire on the UK as it currently, and that Scotland may sleepwalk into a yes result for independence.

That will be a massive failure on David Cameron's part and if he keeps allowing more and more hostile comments to be directed to the Scots from his really pathetic cabinet, he may find international opinion turns even more against him and his Govt also.

I still think more Scots prefer being in the UK than not,however I am coming to increasingly of the view that those of that view may not feel determined enough to bother voting in a referendum as to independence now,especially one held outside of a general election day when more voters would have likely gone out to vote in in same than may be the case later this year.

This PM by his very weak leadership has possibly constitutionally brought into reality what maybe was more unthinkable only a short time ago.
He also seems terrified to discuss anything with Alex Salmond, who tohis credit just seems more the real statesman every time there is an issue between Westminster and Scotland.

[arista]

1955 General Election (http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/1955_general_election.htm). Labour and Tories were pretty close in votes in Scotland up until the 80s and 90s.

There's no guarantee that an independent Scotland would never vote for a right/centre-right government. The whole political landscape would change and a Scottish government would deciding policies on a whole range of issues that they don't at the moment. Governments would vary between left wing and right wing, just like they do in other European countries.

An SNP guy said recently, by the way, in the event of a yes vote, they want the next UK General Election delayed for a year.


No thats Locked in to the 5 Year term system.
Out of any SNP's reach



http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/02/16/article-2560410-19A778FD00000578-73_634x403.jpg
[Alex Salmond has won Scotland, writes Peter Hitchens. Tell the Scots they can't
keep the pound, and they'll just think quietly: 'Oh yes, we will. Try and stop us' ]

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2560410/PETER-HITCHENS-We-ask-Scots-loyal-ones-betraying-Britain.html#ixzz2tU6NKbIN

[Livia]

So, they can't keep the pound, and now the head of the EU says Scotland would have to apply and get the approval of all the members states (like Spain, with its Catalan question would ever agree with Scotland joining). Scotland argues that it's already a member ofe EU, but it's not, the UK is. If they vote to break up the UK they can't then dictate all the terms about what they'll keep and what they won't. And claiming it's scaremongering when they're told they can't have their own way is preposterous.

[MTVN]

So, they can't keep the pound, and now the head of the EU says Scotland would have to apply and get the approval of all the members states (like Spain, with its Catalan question would ever agree with Scotland joining). Scotland argues that it's already a member ofe EU, but it's not, the UK is. If they vote to break up the UK they can't then dictate all the terms about what they'll keep and what they won't. And claiming it's scaremongering when they're told they can't have their own way is preposterous.

Yeah I do find it funny how the SNP presumed they could separate from the UK but keep its currency and that the British government wouldn't be able to go against that, I think they've suddenly realised that they don't hold all the cards here. They might think they'll keep the pound anyway or that it won't be that big a blow, but it was only 5 years ago that their two biggest banks had to be saved by London, they'd have no such safety net if they decided they could go it alone.

[Josy]

Never mind the pound, they have been told they can't keep buckfast, this will seal the deal.

[arista]

Josy
so much can change before Sept Vote.


Never Say Never

[Josy]

Josy
so much can change before Sept Vote.


Never Say Never

I was only joking Arista, there was a prank news article going around the web about the buckfast.

I have posted my views on Scottish independence before, I'm against it and I'm confident that most Scot's will vote the right way.

[Z]

Alex Salmond is a prat and I don't think he really knows what he's doing.

[joeysteele]

Alex Salmond is a prat and I don't think he really knows what he's doing.

Hi Zee, about 4 years ago I would have likely agreed with you as to that. however I now feel he has been, (particularly by the present UK Govt.), vastly underestimated as a leader and Statesman.
I find him quite persausive and even my own family who live in Scotland,they are finding him more impressive with each issue that arises as to the independence issue.

There will be,(bearing in mind if the Scots were to vote for independence and I hope they don't), a likely whole 18 months transition period from that vote to actual independence.
It would never be in England, Wales or Northern Irelands interest to have so close a neighbour like Scotland in a state of uncertainty, especially after the Westminster Govt giving the go ahead for the referendum on independence to be held.

I believe in that 18 months that all will be sorted for the benefit of England,Wales,Northern Irealnd and also the new state of Scotland by all parties concerned.
No matter the ugly words now, we would still want and need the Scots as a trading partner and we would,I believe anyway, hope to hold onto that status, a weakened Scottish Nation would not be good for that scenario and for those reasons I think it will be surprising how many obstacles would be removed and fast too,to ensure stability on these Islands.

Hopefully also of course,my hope still is that the vote is against independence anyway.

[arista]

Alex Salmond is a prat and I don't think he really knows what he's doing.


But Every week it changes.


I would love Scotland to go Free from England.
It would Damage Labour

[daniel-lewis-1985]

They want to do their own thing then just let them. Maybe they should build a great big wall aswell or even better a moat filled with sheeps insides to show people they are their own country and have nothing to do with the UK.

Im sure they will be just fine without the UKs resources and would fair well if the British didn't back them up if it came to war.

Doesn't affect me, the only time I would be against this is if they claimed all rights on short bread then I would have to move there.

[Toy Soldier]

Not allowing Scotland to keep the pound would be, quite simply, an economic catastrophe for England. Its a bluff. And typical of the Tories bully-boy tactics when it comes to the referendum. Instead of focussing on the POSITIVES of remaining as a union, even pretending that they'll make more effort to listen to the voices of the people of Scotland (or really, of anyone outside the south of England would be nice...)... they're doggedly determined to focus on the potential dangers of leaving. It's very sad. And why, I have to ask? I can only assume it's because everyone in the UK knows that the UK is on a downhill slide into being an utter hole. most towns are already. Hard to focus on positives when the future of Great Britain looks so bleak and unjust.

someone mentioned rats deserting a sinking ship? Umm... well... what would you call a rat deserting a sinking ship? I know what I'd call them. bloody sensible when the alternative is sinking with it. Yes, they might well drown on the swim to shore. But they might just make it. If they stay on the ship, they're definitely ****ed.

[Toy Soldier]

Im sure they will be just fine without the UKs resources and would fair well if the British didn't back them up if it came to war.



Scotland has more resources per head than the UK overall and as for the war comment... Seriously? If it comes to war? Are we expecting a Viking invasion, maybe? The only unavoidable conflicts the world has left are thermonuclear, and then its game over for everyone. "War" indeed...

[MTVN]

Not allowing Scotland to keep the pound would be, quite simply, an economic catastrophe for England. Its a bluff. And typical of the Tories bully-boy tactics when it comes to the referendum. Instead of focussing on the POSITIVES of remaining as a union, even pretending that they'll make more effort to listen to the voices of the people of Scotland (or really, of anyone outside the south of England would be nice...)... they're doggedly determined to focus on the potential dangers of leaving. It's very sad. And why, I have to ask? I can only assume it's because everyone in the UK knows that the UK is on a downhill slide into being an utter hole. most towns are already. Hard to focus on positives when the future of Great Britain looks so bleak and unjust.

someone mentioned rats deserting a sinking ship? Umm... well... what would you call a rat deserting a sinking ship? I know what I'd call them. bloody sensible when the alternative is sinking with it. Yes, they might well drown on the swim to shore. But they might just make it. If they stay on the ship, they're definitely ****ed.

Why?

And all three parties have ruled out there being a currency union with an independent Scotland, not just the Tories

[daniel-lewis-1985]

Scotland has more resources per head than the UK overall and as for the war comment... Seriously? If it comes to war? Are we expecting a Viking invasion, maybe? The only unavoidable conflicts the world has left are thermonuclear, and then its game over for everyone. "War" indeed...

How do you know that? Examples....If we are talking about natural resources the UK are not even in the top ten overall world wide.

My post wasn't in anyway serious hence the short bread comment.

[joeysteele]

But Every week it changes.


I would love Scotland to go Free from England.
It would Damage Labour

It would in a closer contest make it harder for Labour to win elections outright that is true, however the 1997, 2001 and 2005 elections without the Scottish seats would still have given Labour overall majorities and in the case of 1997 and 2001,still really big overall majorities then too.

It wouldn't in all truth harm Labour as much as you think and even without the Scottish seats in 2010, the Conservatives would have likely only got a 15 or 16 overall majority which still would have had them loooking over their shoulders as to defeats in parliament.

[Toy Soldier]

Why?

And all three parties have ruled out there being a currency union with an independent Scotland, not just the Tories

It would disrupt the flow of trade with what would inevitably be an important trading partner if independence were to go ahead, and it would have a severe impact on the many companies that are currently operating in both Scotland and England. It would inevitable cost the economy of the rest of the UK double-digit billions per year. The risks of denying a currency union far outweigh the risks of allowing one. Therefore, there would be one. If independence was gained (it won't be, but hypothetically) and it was no longer of any use as a bargaining chip, London would quickly backpeddle and a currency agreement would be reached.

I'm aware that it's not just the Tories. Although let's not pretend there are "three" parties - there are two as there always have been - and Scottish independence is bad news for Labour, too. Scotland votes labour pretty heavily. All of those votes being instantly taken away from the Westminster elections would be very bad news for them.

[Vicky.]

You would think it would be in the Tories best interests to do whatever they could to get Scotland to go independent really. Given that if Scotland do leave the UK the rest of us are pretty much damned to a lifetime of them :bored:

[Z]

You'd think so, but no matter what they might say to rubbish the Yes campaign, the UK does need Scotland more than it would like to admit it does at this time; it doesn't care for Scottish people but it cares for easy access to the North Sea.

[joeysteele]

It would disrupt the flow of trade with what would inevitably be an important trading partner if independence were to go ahead, and it would have a severe impact on the many companies that are currently operating in both Scotland and England. It would inevitable cost the economy of the rest of the UK double-digit billions per year. The risks of denying a currency union far outweigh the risks of allowing one. Therefore, there would be one. If independence was gained (it won't be, but hypothetically) and it was no longer of any use as a bargaining chip, London would quickly backpeddle and a currency agreement would be reached.

I'm aware that it's not just the Tories. Although let's not pretend there are "three" parties - there are two as there always have been - and Scottish independence is bad news for Labour, too. Scotland votes labour pretty heavily. All of those votes being instantly taken away from the Westminster elections would be very bad news for them.

Exactly, despite the wording now there would likely be backpeddling as you say,it is amazing how so called firm decisions can be altered once reality dawns.

Also the loss of Scottish votes would admittedly hit Labour the hardest but not as bad as people think,even on the current opinion polls if they were to happen in an election, without Scotland Labour would still have an overall majority.

The Scottish seats in 2005 were reduced from over 72 to 59,so the impact is diminished somewhat as to affecting election outcomes.
As I said above too, in all the elections of 1997, 2001,and 2005,without the Scottish seats Labour would still have got good overall majorities in all of them.

[lostalex]

i thought Scotland was liberal, they never vote tory, so wouldn't the conservatives benefit from Scotland being independent? but Cameron is fighting against it. I don't understand. or is the conservative drive for colonialism stronger than their drive for winning elections?

[Toy Soldier]

Also the loss of Scottish votes would admittedly hit Labour the hardest but not as bad as people think,even on the current opinion polls if they were to happen in an election, without Scotland Labour would still have an overall majority.

True, but I personally suspect that's just an accurate representation of just how much the Tories have managed to **** people off this term :lol:. Combined with a very weak and unconvincing leader... they've really given themselves a mauling.

They got in last time by tricking lower-middle and even some working class people into believing their lies and rhetoric. Before that election, I was working with a girl who had two young kids, working but definitely relying on Tax Credits, etc... and she had totally had her head turned towards the Tories and their promises. She voted for them. And then of course, many of their policies directly impacted on her, and she felt utterly duped. Not to mention Tory austerity measures absolutely destroying the north-of-England town she lives in (thankfully, I don't live there myself any more)... the place is in ruins. The Tories managed to swindle their way to a LOT of these sorts of votes last time. People voting for them and then being the worst affected by the things that they've done. It's shameful really, but then, they wre idiots to believe their propaganda in the first place.

Those people will vote against them in force next time. I'd like to think at every election ever after, too... but people are generally stupid and have very short memories, so the Tories will probably be back within a few terms, people sucked in by their bollocks promises all over again.

[MTVN]

It would disrupt the flow of trade with what would inevitably be an important trading partner if independence were to go ahead, and it would have a severe impact on the many companies that are currently operating in both Scotland and England. It would inevitable cost the economy of the rest of the UK double-digit billions per year. The risks of denying a currency union far outweigh the risks of allowing one. Therefore, there would be one. If independence was gained (it won't be, but hypothetically) and it was no longer of any use as a bargaining chip, London would quickly backpeddle and a currency agreement would be reached.

I'm aware that it's not just the Tories. Although let's not pretend there are "three" parties - there are two as there always have been - and Scottish independence is bad news for Labour, too. Scotland votes labour pretty heavily. All of those votes being instantly taken away from the Westminster elections would be very bad news for them.

I don't see that being hugely problematic really, a currency union is not a prerequisite for free and unrestricted trade. The risks of a currency union are far greater imo, you don't really have to look further than the Euro and the last few years to see the dangers of it. The only person who this announcement from Westminster seems to have surprised is Alex Salmond and the SNP themselves, why should the Bank of England make themselves responsible and have to act as a guarantee for the debt of what would now be a foreign country? If the same happened as a few years ago and Scotland's two biggest banks once again find themselves facing ruin then it's pretty understandable why the UK government would not want to be forced to bail them out again

[Beso]

vote no...it's will be a right hassle changing passports,banknotes,coins,driving licences,tv license,dog licence,car tax..etc etc etc..why bother we are fine how we are.

[arista]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/2/17/1392632625198/img039.jpeg

Utter Bliss


http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2014/feb/17/sunday-mail-alexsalmond

[joeysteele]

I really think the question that also needs answering is in fact just what will be the situation if Scotland does vote for independence in September as to the 2015 general election.

There is an expected 18 month transition period before independence is finally in force so what of the Scots voting in the 2015 general election.
That would to me be ridiculous since by March 2016,the Scottish MPs would have no authority at all to sit in the Parliament post that date.

There has even been an even more daft propsal that the UK general elections be put back a year if Scotland vote for independence.
No thank you, at all from me as to that, not another year of this heartless and misleading Govt for me,I'd have rather the election a year early than a year later.

As it stands,were Labour to win say a 30 overall majority then even with the Scots vote seats gone that would still leave Labour with an overall majority albeit a narrow single figure one.
It is however a question that really needs detailing clearly,this is something all the voters of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland should know the solid answer to and very soon, now preferably.

[arista]

Alex Salmond tells Sky News the Chancellor is "bluffing" when he says independent Scotland will not be allowed to keep the pound.


Bang On Right Alex


http://news.sky.com/story/1212914/salmond-warns-of-cost-of-scotland-losing-pound

[joeysteele]

Alex Salmond tells Sky News the Chancellor is "bluffing" when he says independent Scotland will not be allowed to keep the pound.


Bang On Right Alex


http://news.sky.com/story/1212914/salmond-warns-of-cost-of-scotland-losing-pound

I think he is right on that arista, no matter what is being said now, it would be likely the best thing in all economical sense for both Scotland and what is left of the UK if Scotland had the same currency.
I also think it would come about too by the time Scotland was to be made fully independent.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Alex Salmond tells Sky News the Chancellor is "bluffing" when he says independent Scotland will not be allowed to keep the pound.


Bang On Right Alex


http://news.sky.com/story/1212914/salmond-warns-of-cost-of-scotland-losing-pound

Its just another "project fear" attempt to scare people. and that Spanish feckwit can also shut his trap with his "we all know you are talking about the Catalans really" pish

[arista]

The new Scottish Pound

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02868/alexcoin_2868474b.jpg

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/scottish-politics/10735711/Alex-Salmond-to-replace-the-Queen-on-new-Scottish-pound-coin.html

[Josy]

Never will I use money with Fat Heed on it

[Josy]

Got to be an April fool that

[Jessica.]

Irish Pounds had animals on them in the past, nice of Scotland to carry on the tradition now that we have Euro, I wonder why they picked a hippopotamus though.

[the truth]

The thing that makes me smile about this that most English people I speak to can't wait for Scotland to be independent, most of us would positively enourage it. And yet, when an English person says, good, can't wait for it to happen, Scottish people don't see happy with that and would prefer us to be upset at the prospect.

Alex Salmond also said that they will "decided later whether or not Scotland will join the EU". Which will be quite a dilemma for all those Scottish people living and working in England who will suddenly need a visa to be able to visit England, let alone live and work here, as do other nationalities who's countries are not EU members.

There isn't the hatred from ordinary English people toward the Scottish that a lot of Scottish people harbour toward the English, mainly I think because the English are not still grimly hanging on to old slights inflicted on them by people hundreds of years dead, and for which the vast majority of English people were a) not responsible for and, b) did not profit from.

It's terrible a shame, our two countries have a long history where we've stood together many times. But I don't think there is anything that can be done to heal the rift now.

with respect your post sounds like it is you who harbours ill will towards the scots. in short it sounds very hypocritical. the scots are anti tory , they detest what they did to scotland. the fact is the tory party does pretty well in england and the south especially mainly because of the sheer volume of wealthy people there. whereas in scotland the tories dont exist. so your painting this as anti english is disingenuous, its anti tory yes and its pro scotland. its a cultural and economic decision. the scots , a lot of them, are exceptionally knowledgeable people. they feel quite capable of running their own affairs and believe theyd be better off for doing so.

they have a good relationship with the EU and are hugely respected by all other nations. this will help in trade. I actually think an independent scotland will get along with england better than ever as independent nations. there are some anti english people there but believe me as an englishman the behaviour of vats swathes of so called english patriots towards many other nations is far more
xenophobic.....

our countrymen go around the med in packs screaming bull murder chanting at groups of other nationalities and general making a total nuisance of ourselves. I visited the algarve one time, they wouldnt let any english people into the night clubs. I pretended to be scottish and they let me in

I agree about dragging up ancient history though. time to let the butchering monarchies to bed. I think the monarchy is pure evil. always has been. but thats about power and land more than nationality

[GypsyGoth]

Lorraine Kelly should get to be president of Scotland should it gain independence.

http://i.imgur.com/53xoYoc.jpg

[the truth]

The scots have become richer since theyve had a parliament, the welsh have become poorer since theyve had an assembly

[Z]

Lorraine Kelly should get to be president of Scotland should it gain independence.

http://i.imgur.com/53xoYoc.jpg

"President Kelly we have intelligence reports coming in that Infidel Garraway made disparaging comments about you on the morning show." "Oh that wee gas bag, well we'll just give her a wee sooky sweetie filled with anthrax and that'll sort her right oot won't it"

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Media/Pix/pictures/2012/2/29/1330529023657/Kelly-injured-in-fall-fro-007.jpg

Ruthless

[arista]

Watch This Video

Ian Hislop On why Scotland is better on its own.

Only just over 2mins


http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01x2bzz



Utter Bliss Lee

[joeysteele]

Really good and strong speech by Alex Salmond today, he made really good points and I do feel he will have hit a chord with a lot of people undecided in Scotland.

It is a pity he has Nicola Sturgeon as a barnacle around him but he has made the running for this Independence vote and it now wouldn't surprise me if Scotland sleepwalked out of the UK.
I don't think the majority of Scots want to leave but I am far from sure all who wish to stay will even bother to go and vote.

I have to give great credit to Alex Salmond however for his efforts and all he has achieved so far.

[arista]

Really good and strong speech by Alex Salmond today, he made really good points and I do feel he will have hit a chord with a lot of people undecided in Scotland.

It is a pity he has Nicola Sturgeon as a barnacle around him but he has made the running for this Independence vote and it now wouldn't surprise me if Scotland sleepwalked out of the UK.
I don't think the majority of Scots want to leave but I am far from sure all who wish to stay will even bother to go and vote.

I have to give great credit to Alex Salmond however for his efforts and all he has achieved so far.


Yes I like what he said.



The No Group are so Negative
it could yet drive more to Vote Yes in Sept.
All still to play for.

[joeysteele]

Yes I like what he said.



The No Group are so Negative
it could yet drive more to Vote Yes in Sept.
All still to play for.

I agree arista, for me it was the most compelling speech yet as to this issue to be fair to him.

[lostalex]

We all know Scotland ain't going anywhere. It's just not going to happen.

[joeysteele]

We all know Scotland ain't going anywhere. It's just not going to happen.

I think you are likely still right as to that lostalex and I would have thought that myself a few weeks ago.

However even some of my family who live in Scotland and who will vote have been more impressed with Alex Salmond than say Alistair Darling and co.
I just feel that no matter what, those who want independence will definaitely go out and vote for it.
Those who would prefer to remain in the UK,I fear a good number may not likely bother to go out and vote and the result could see Scotland sleepwalking out of the UK.

I used to think the vote would be at least 60% voting to stay and 40% wanting independence.
I think now, it is likely a great deal closer than that.

However I do hope you are right and Scotland votes to stay in the UK in this referendum.

[lostalex]

I think you are likely still right as to that lostalex and I would have thought that myself a few weeks ago.

However even some of my family who live in Scotland and who will vote have been more impressed with Alex Salmond than say Alistair Darling and co.
I just feel that no matter what, those who want independence will definaitely go out and vote for it.
Those who would prefer to remain in the UK,I fear a good number may not likely bother to go out and vote and the result could see Scotland sleepwalking out of the UK.

I used to think the vote would be at least 60% voting to stay and 40% wanting independence.
I think now, it is likely a great deal closer than that.

However I do hope you are right and Scotland votes to stay in the UK in this referendum.


Well you can like alex salmond, and support the SNP without voting yes. I don't think the SNP will be destroyed by this even if majority vote no. They can still have the SNP, and be part of the UK.

The truth is, most people are scared of change, that's why incumbents usually win. I don't think the majority of Scots want anything to change so drastically. People think they want change, but when it comes down to it, most really don't, and most prefer the status quo.

[Z]

^That's exactly right Alex, and I think that's because this wasn't a grassroots movement from the Scottish people, it's a political agenda being pushed upon a population who didn't really have an opinion on the idea. We're not an oppressed people so there's no great desire to be independent from the UK really, just a lot of ifs, buts and maybes that can be painted as appealing or unappealing by the two different political ends of the spectrum but your average Scottish person's probably not thinking about it on a daily basis, and I think that's why it will fail.

[joeysteele]

Well you can like alex salmond, and support the SNP without voting yes. I don't think the SNP will be destroyed by this even if majority vote no. They can still have the SNP, and be part of the UK.

The truth is, most people are scared of change, that's why incumbents usually win. I don't think the majority of Scots want anything to change so drastically. People think they want change, but when it comes down to it, most really don't, and most prefer the status quo.

I agree with all that, I really hope that is the case and that is what comes about as to the result in the referendum too.

I agree, no matter what may 'seem' to be the possible case now,as you point out when it comes down to it and actually going for change,most prefer the way things are.

Good post lostalex, you have helped erase doubts I was developing as to the result of this referendum.

[Nedusa]

We all know Scotland ain't going anywhere. It's just not going to happen.

Unfortunately , I have to agree also. Scotland is going nowhere

[arista]

Josy
if Scotland Voted Yes and became a nation
would you leave?

[michael21]

Josy
if Scotland Voted Yes and became a nation
would you leave?

no she will become queen Josy :love:

[Lee.]

Unfortunately , I have to agree also. Scotland is going nowhere

Unfortunately for who?

[arista]

Ch4newsHD live in Glasgow

Live Debate On now

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2014/6/9/315029/default/v2/matthews1-1-380x214.jpg

This Top Scottish SkyNewsHD Reporter
is a gem
taking a Couch all over the Scottish nation
to get everyones Views

Video on here
http://news.sky.com/story/1278735/scottish-independence-a-leap-into-the-unknown


100 Days to the Vote

All to play for

So many must pick a side

[arista]

srBk-f50LYM



For any that Want a Laugh
Check out Lemmy
Features the PM as well

[arista]

Well done JK Rowling giving
a Million Pounds to the Yes to Scotland.

On the Daily Politics
today we were told of the internet abuse she then got
sexual and C word.

Typical of the UK backers of the Together ponces

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/06/11/1402480689732_wps_2_British_author_J_K_Rowlin.jpg


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/06/11/1402494844415_wps_2_JK_Rowling_Tweet_Muzzed.jpg

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2654995/JK-Rowling-gives-1million-No-campaign-war-chest-bolster-fight-against-Scottish-independence.html

[andybigbro]

#bettertogether

[Z]

Her statement was quite compelling and sums up my feelings on the matter.

[arista]

Her statement was quite compelling and sums up my feelings on the matter.


So you want Scotland Free
now


Well done Z

[Z]

So you want Scotland Free
now


Well done Z

I suggest you read what JK Rowling actually said, arista.

[arista]

I suggest you read what JK Rowling actually said, arista.


I have
she wants Scotland Free from England Control

[Z]

That's a fraction of what she said and a complete contradiction of the overall message she was expressing.

[Kizzy]

Where is the statement?

[Nedusa]

With many ex PM's and Cabinet Ministers hailing from Scotland, who is say Scotland isn't already in control of the United Kingdom.

Does Scotland make it's students pay student loans back no it does not, does it make Scottish people pay for keeping their elderly relatives in care homes, no it does not. Does it make scottish people pay prescription charges, no it does not.

Seems like Scotland is in control and is already getting a better deal than vast numbers of English people.

[joeysteele]

With many ex PM's and Cabinet Ministers hailing from Scotland, who is say Scotland isn't already in control of the United Kingdom.

Does Scotland make it's students pay student loans back no it does not, does it make Scottish people pay for keeping their elderly relatives in care homes, no it does not. Does it make scottish people pay prescription charges, no it does not.

Seems like Scotland is in control and is already getting a better deal than vast numbers of English people.

I do have to say that in my view Alex Salmond and his SNP administration has been really good for the Scotland.
Should the vote be for independence in September, I feel sure the Scots will as Alex Salmond said, be able to at last get only the Govt. it voted for and although I would be sad to see the break up of any part of the UK,I think the Scots would be as well served if not better served by the politicians left there.

[coffee]

Not sure if there is a thread? But to all you Scottish people on here what will you be voting on September 18th?

[Firewire]

there's a thread somewhere

[Firewire]

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188488

[coffee]

Well I spelled independence wrong so I'm feeling pretty ashamed anyway.

[the truth]

the scots are nicer than us english, but im unsure they can afford to go alone. if they can good luck to them

[Livia]

I'm not Scottish, but I voted.

[Livia]

the scots are nicer than us english, but im unsure they can afford to go alone. if they can good luck to them

People are pretty much people wherever you go. No one's all good, or all bad. Like I keep saying to you.

[lostalex]

absolutely not. I love Scotland and Scottish people, but as an American it is important for the UK to be as strong as possible, a unified UK is important, and it's the same reason i think the UK should also remain a member of the EU. A strong UK in Europe gives the US more influence.