Margaret Thatcher has Died of a stroke [Speak your mind]

[Lee.]

Nnnnnt!! Somebody sing calming songs to me please. ?

£10 million pounds her unnessecary funeral is costing us! She's worth £63m, I think she could afford her own funeral!

And wtf? Parliament are being recalled, again at our expense? Its almost unbelievable. :mad:

[hijaxers]

Nnnnnt!! Somebody sing calming songs to me please. ?

£10 million pounds her unnessecary funeral is costing us! She's worth £63m, I think she could afford her own funeral!

And wtf? Parliament are being recalled, again at our expense? Its almost unbelievable. :mad:

Well i am totally amazed by the fact that Ex PM's get their salary til they die !!
WTF we wouldn't have any problem with an ageing population at all if we all got treated that way !!!
I hope this funeral turns into the debarcle it is !!
Let the people speak and have the last laugh on Nasty Margaret. I hope every ex miner turns up and throws coal at her !!!

[the truth]

the speeches now are much better, glenda jackson went berserk, fantastic
frank fields was classy too
as for the speeches overal i thought camerons was excellent despite not agreeing with mch of it, miliband did reasonably well, rifkind was quite superb. wheres tony benn? wheres dennis skinner

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/10/article-2306997-1938DB76000005DC-378_308x396.jpg

Glenda Jackson.


There is only 2 Labour MP's now

[joeysteele]

I gave up watching, I consider the recall of Parliament for this unnecessary.
This could have been done after the funeral in normal parliamentary time for shorter length too.
I agreed with the MP who mentioned the soldier killed near the end of March who until he raised it today had no accolade heaped on him thus far.

I think this was a bad day for Parliament,I cleared off the moment I heard hypocrite Simon Hughes rambling on.

[Kizzy]

"The MPS [Metropolitan Police Service] wishes to speak to anyone who may choose to demonstrate on Wednesday, or in the coming days, so their right to protest can be upheld whilst respecting the rights of Baroness Thatcher's family and those who wish to pay their respects."

I really hope nobody does protest on the day.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/10/margaret-thatcher-funeral-military-personnel

[arista]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/online/2013/4/10/1365595063089/Margaret-Thatcher-Sand-sc-001.jpg

[Kizzy]

9t4-zDem1Sk

[arista]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/4/10/1365621991672/Steve-Bell-11.04.2013-002.jpg

[the truth]

I gave up watching, I consider the recall of Parliament for this unnecessary.
This could have been done after the funeral in normal parliamentary time for shorter length too.
I agreed with the MP who mentioned the soldier killed near the end of March who until he raised it today had no accolade heaped on him thus far.

I think this was a bad day for Parliament,I cleared off the moment I heard hypocrite Simon Hughes rambling on.

hes a rambling prat isnt he

[Omah]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/margaret-thatcher-dead-10-key-1823133#ixzz2Q66OEEyu

"Thatcherism wreaked the most heinous, social, economic and spiritual damage upon this country"

Good for Glenda ..... :flowers:

There will, inevitably, be another female PM, but there will never be another Double-Oscar MP ..... :pipe:

[Ninastar]

I care as much about her family as she cared about the familes suffering under her policies back she was PM.

Christ by what we know so far her own immediate family hardly even cares...

But like I have already posted in this thread I think the street parties and celebrations are OTT and tasteless.

oh come one, really? let me guess, this is from a newspaper, right?

[joeysteele]

hes a rambling prat isnt he

I used to quite like him in the past but lately he just seems to go on and on and get nowhere, what annoys me with him, is he sets out to justify why he and the Lib Dems have supported such a measure but then as he goes on, it is clear he thinks the total opposite as to what he has supported.
He's lost a lot of credibility over this Parliament, for me anyway.

[Josy]

oh come one, really? let me guess, this is from a newspaper, right?

I dont read the garbage that gets printed in newspapers, instead of guessing the meaning of my posts why not just ask?

Her twins never bothered to return the the country to spend her last moments with her, that tells me all I need to know.

[InOne]

I've noticed the areas of where people are from affect their views of Thatcher on here. I'd say it's pretty spot on with those who are for and aganist her.

[Jack_]

I've noticed the areas of where people are from affect their views of Thatcher on here. I'd say it's pretty spot on with those who are for and aganist her.

I live down south and my parents are both moderate right-wingers (though my dad liked Thatcher more than my mum, but both don't share similar political views to me at all and we often argue over politics) so I'm not sure if I fall into that category :p I'd agree a lot of others views seem to be determined by their location though

[the truth]

I've noticed the areas of where people are from affect their views of Thatcher on here. I'd say it's pretty spot on with those who are for and aganist her.

yep but its also about money and jobs than simple nationality or area... , the rich in the home counties were mainly for her, , most of the rest are to the left of her....rather suprisingly though she did have 14 seats here in wales out of 42....but scotland detested her, she barely won a seat

dont forget too the media is very different outside london , the education is also different in other uk nations

[InOne]

yep but its also about money and jobs than simple nationality or area... , the rich in the home counties were mainly for her, , most of the rest are to the left of her....rather suprisingly though she did have 14 seats here in wales out of 42....but scotland detested her, she barely won a seat

dont forget too the media is very different outside london , the education is also different in other uk nations

I agree there's many different aspects to it. The area thing was just something I noticed off the top of my head when reading through the thread.

[Jack_]

Kizzy's post just disappeared :suspect:

[Kazanne]

Kizzy's post just disappeared :suspect:

it's witchcraft Jack :hugesmile:

[Kizzy]

Kizzy's post just disappeared :suspect:

Really, wonder why?

[Josy]

Admin removed it for a reason...so moving on...

[Kizzy]

Then why are some allowed to make references to where members are on the map if I can't contradict the point?

[Josy]

Kizzy you disclosed another members location, thats not your place to do that.

Now can we keep it on topic in here.

[Kizzy]

I didn't bring up locations did I?...
He tried to make a point and I disproved it, I won't do it again.

[James]

The poster asked for his location to be taken off the forum.

[Kizzy]

okily dokily. Still blew his theory out of the water though.

[InOne]

You didn't disprove anything kizzy as I've not really aired my views on the matter...

[Kizzy]

ok..

[James]

I think a lot of people get their political views from their close family, which will be influenced by the area they are from.

Also the job you have makes a big difference to how you vote. People who work in the public sector are going to be much more likely to vote Labour as that party generally favours the public sector over private.

[Kizzy]

Well my views come from political education as part of a degree so that throws that theory out in my case.
But you may have a point.

[Jack_]

Well my views come from education and reading I'd say but if I hadn't done that I'd have certainly ended up with similar views to my parents as no matter how much you try to ask for an impartial explanation of political parties, policies and events from your parents (which I did a few years back), you're generally always going to end up with a fairly one-sided answer, and until I educated myself I had no reason to think any differently. So I think unless you've taken the time or had a political kind of education, your views will always either stem from your parents, social background, career or (unfortunately) the media (or rather what media outlets and platforms you make use of).

[the truth]

if something affects you directly the effect is far more profound

[Omah]

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/04/watch-glenda-jackson-savages-thatcher

Today's parliamentary tribute to Margaret Thatcher came to life with the intervention of Glenda Jackson. The Labour MP for Hampstead declared that Thatcher wreaked "the most heinous, social, economic and spiritual damage upon this country", later adding: "a woman? not on my terms".

Jackson was jeered and booed by Tory MPs, with Tony Baldry arguing in a point of order that her speech was against the "conventions of the House" as "this is not and has never been a general debate on the memory of the person who has been deceased, but an opportunity for tribute". But John Bercow rejected the criticism, stating that "nothing unparliamentary has occurred".

"We are debating a motion that says ‘this House has considered the matter of tributes to the Baroness Thatcher’ - that is what we are doing and nothing has got in the way of that."

Good for Bercow ..... :pipe:

[joeysteele]

Well my views come from education and reading I'd say but if I hadn't done that I'd have certainly ended up with similar views to my parents as no matter how much you try to ask for an impartial explanation of political parties, policies and events from your parents (which I did a few years back), you're generally always going to end up with a fairly one-sided answer, and until I educated myself I had no reason to think any differently. So I think unless you've taken the time or had a political kind of education, your views will always either stem from your parents, social background, career or (unfortunately) the media (or rather what media outlets and platforms you make use of).

I'd go with this mostly too, my Parents are Conservative,I have been interested in politics since I was very young though,I recall watching the 1997 with my Dad when I was only 5, the first night I had been allowed to stay up most of the night.

However as I got older I became more interested in politics and am doing politics at Uni, in the last 5 years I have virtually crossed the political divide and now have far more leaning to Labour.
Having said that though, after him doing so for his lifetime so far in voting Conservative,even my Dad has said he is not going to in 2015.

He was a great supporter of Margaret Thatcher though and he is saddened by her death but he also understands the other very deep and hostile feelings towards her even in death from others.
I was talking to him yesterday, he said she was someone who stuck to her principles and what she had said,by the same token though the people who disliked her intensely should not have to become hypocrites now and start being nice about her if that is not what they feel or think.

I agree with that too.
I respect my Parents view and what they have stood for politically but I make my own mind up and after really researching and getting into politics I have come to the view that I am more in tune with Labour now definitely and even more so after the heartless policies of this Govt.

Margaret Thatcher has left a political legacy, that although heavily divisive, will be constantly looked back on with the effects felt for likely decades to come still, good or bad, that cannot be denied her.

[thesheriff443]

my view comes from this quote from Abraham Lincoln.

“You can please some of the people some of the time all of the people some of the time some of the people all of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time.”

[Kazanne]

my view comes from this quote from Abraham Lincoln.

“You can please some of the people some of the time all of the people some of the time some of the people all of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time.”

Exactly,sheriff simple as.

[thesheriff443]

Exactly,sheriff simple as.

:xyxwave:hello
for every winner there has to be a loser.

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/4/10/231550/default/v1/sun-1-329x437.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/4/10/231547/default/v1/mirrorpapers-1-329x437.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/4/10/231548/default/v1/guardianpapers-1-329x437.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/4/10/231549/default/v1/indiepapers-1-329x437.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/4/10/231544/default/v1/mailpapers-1-329x437.jpg

Teachers of hatred: The drama mistress and the master from Miliband's school who helped organise the Maggie 'death parties'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2307040/Margaret-Thatcher-dead-Teachers-hatred-helped-organise-Maggie-death-parties.html#ixzz2Q8yenNud

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/10/article-2307040-19378EC8000005DC-323_634x571.jpg
"Sick: Special needs teacher Craig Parr,
employed at 'Labour's Eton' in north London,
is celebrating the death of Margaret Thatcher in Brixton "

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/10/article-2307040-1938DAC7000005DC-713_634x434.jpg
[The drama teacher, who works with
the young and 'potentially criminalised
individuals' is believed to have rallied
thousands for the 'death parties']








Sign Of The Times

[GiRTh]

Sign Of The TimesThe times that she help create. What goes around comes around. She deserves no more than she's getting.

[Kazanne]

I'd go with this mostly too, my Parents are Conservative,I have been interested in politics since I was very young though,I recall watching the 1997 with my Dad when I was only 5, the first night I had been allowed to stay up most of the night.

However as I got older I became more interested in politics and am doing politics at Uni, in the last 5 years I have virtually crossed the political divide and now have far more leaning to Labour.
Having said that though, after him doing so for his lifetime so far in voting Conservative,even my Dad has said he is not going to in 2015.

He was a great supporter of Margaret Thatcher though and he is saddened by her death but he also understands the other very deep and hostile feelings towards her even in death from others.
I was talking to him yesterday, he said she was someone who stuck to her principles and what she had said,by the same token though the people who disliked her intensely should not have to become hypocrites now and start being nice about her if that is not what they feel or think.

I agree with that too.
I respect my Parents view and what they have stood for politically but I make my own mind up and after really researching and getting into politics I have come to the view that I am more in tune with Labour now definitely and even more so after the heartless policies of this Govt.

Margaret Thatcher has left a political legacy, that although heavily divisive, will be constantly looked back on with the effects felt for likely decades to come still, good or bad, that cannot be denied her.

It's the opposite with me Joey,my parents were always Labour voters,I had their views drummed into me from an early age and I always followed suit until the last Labour government got in power,I then took a lot more notice of politics and although I don't fully understand it all I find it very interesting,I also understand to get the country back on it's feet we have to be cruel to be kind 'tough love' as they say,it's no good pussy footing about giving people what they want all the time,people are spoilt they claim they have nothing etc,but the majority have mobiles,laptops,video consoles,flat screen TVs ,fags drink etc,so although I aknowledge some people are struggling,some that moan are not,so for me David Cameron is my choice at the moment,he hasn't got everything right but I can see where he is coming from,he is doing what he thinks is right and not doing things to be popular,as for Margaret Thatcher,my parents disliked her,but but they certainly aren't partying at her death,I have such a lot to learn about politics,so I may just have to pick your knowlegable brain Joey:hugesmile: Your posts are always interesting and thought provoking.

[Kazanne]

:xyxwave:hello
for every winner there has to be a loser.

Yes sheriff,that's life it needs to be accepted.

[Jesus.]

Yes sheriff,that's life it needs to be accepted.

It's not, and it doesn't. Not when it comes to politics.

[thesheriff443]

It's not, and it doesn't. Not when it comes to politics.

once you come to terms with the fact that life is not fair then you can move on.
make the best of what you have, do the best you can and that's all you can do.

[arista]

The times that she help create. What goes around comes around. She deserves no more than she's getting.


She can take it.


Not sure about her kids

[Cherie]

She can take it.


Not sure about her kids

They are hardly kids. They could have avoided alot of this by having a private funeral ceremony, this circus is going to carry on now until next Wednesday at the very least.

[Omah]

She can take it.


Not sure about her kids

They are hardly kids. They could have avoided alot of this by having a private funeral ceremony, this circus is going to carry on now until next Wednesday at the very least.

The kids will do anything to qualify for the inheritance ..... :shrug:

[arista]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/4/9/1365485399682/City-AM-001.jpg

[Jesus.]

once you come to terms with the fact that life is not fair then you can move on.
make the best of what you have, do the best you can and that's all you can do.

Life doesn't have to be fair, but you don't need your own politicians to rig the game against those with the least. My issues with her aren't that she showed the citizens how life isn't fair, it's that she purposefully made it that way.

[GiRTh]

Life doesn't have to be fair, but you don't need your own politicians to rig the game against those with the least. My issues with her aren't that she showed the citizens how life isn't fair, it's that she purposefully made it that way.Totally agree. :thumbs:

[Cherie]

The kids will do anything to qualify for the inheritance ..... :shrug:[/QUOTE]

Can you explain please Omah, would they not get it anyway?

[joeysteele]

It's the opposite with me Joey,my parents were always Labour voters,I had their views drummed into me from an early age and I always followed suit until the last Labour government got in power,I then took a lot more notice of politics and although I don't fully understand it all I find it very interesting,I also understand to get the country back on it's feet we have to be cruel to be kind 'tough love' as they say,it's no good pussy footing about giving people what they want all the time,people are spoilt they claim they have nothing etc,but the majority have mobiles,laptops,video consoles,flat screen TVs ,fags drink etc,so although I aknowledge some people are struggling,some that moan are not,so for me David Cameron is my choice at the moment,he hasn't got everything right but I can see where he is coming from,he is doing what he thinks is right and not doing things to be popular,as for Margaret Thatcher,my parents disliked her,but but they certainly aren't partying at her death,I have such a lot to learn about politics,so I may just have to pick your knowlegable brain Joey:hugesmile: Your posts are always interesting and thought provoking.

I agree no Govt or PM will get everything right and I have agreed with a lot David Cameron has set out to do.
As to tlhe last Labour Govt however,I really don't think under Tony Blairs premiership that it was in essence a Labour Govt.
For me, looking back over it, he virtually squandered 2 massive overall majorities with which he could have done so much more for the people who had loyally supported Labour through the really dark years of the 80s for the Party but moreso he could have ensured that so many fairer policies were cemented in place that couldn't be tampered with by successive Govts.

Although he made some errors as Chancellor,Gordon Brown in better times may have been a better PM.
He wasn't, as with this Chancellor now,very forward looking or a good planner but he was more compassionate than Blair and much more than Margaret Thatcher.
However he was a better second than first man,he wasn't clearly up the the job as PM and did badly with it in my view.
True, he had the Global banking collapse and recession to hit him but he could have been re-elected as PM long before that hit had he chosen to have an election.

In all that, Margaret Thatcher, would never be able to be accused of of not really weighing things up,which is why I don't like the fixed Parliament idea either, I think it is better when PMs can decide to hold an election at the time of their choosing.
She chose wisely both in 1983, able to reap the benefits of the Falklands campaign but also to capitalise on Labours problems with the new SDP/Liberal Alliance effect.

She ridiculed and beat Neil Kinnock in the Commons hands down everytime and was able to expose his weaknessess in the 1987 election.
She only failed to grasp that her own party would be the ones to stab her in the back and bring her down, which is what I found a bit sickening yeaterday,all these glowing tributes to this paragon of virtue that they destroyed the career of.
For me the sad thing as to her time as PM is I think it seems people got more selfish, less caring for neighbours and communities.
I would have voted for her had I been born and old enough in 1979,I do believe she needed to sort the Union issue out at that time.
Even she though would not have anything to do with welfare reform with the policies this Govt has enacted.

I hate the main policies of this Govt, I have just lost a friend who has been in my view, harrassed by ATOS and the DWP who are following Duncan Smiths shocking and obscene benefit reform policies.
Twice his family have fought appeals and won them and still ATOS and the DWP sent for him again.
Well, they cannot now and what annoys me is that Duncan smith says this shouldn't happen but he does nothing to ensure it doesn't.

I supported welfare reform but not these policies as to it,they are too severe, too much and in my view heartless and quite simply wrong.
I will also never trust the NHS to the Conservatives after David Cameron said he would do no full reform of the NHS but has.
Neither will I trust the Lib Dems with it either now for supporting it.

Economically, this Govt has failed, they said it would take 5 years to sort all out and that cuts had to made in the 1st year to ensure that was possible.
In 2015, they will be asking for the same time again almost as their policies have now failed.
That's where I parted company with them and lost faith and trust in them too.

I am however no expert in Politics, I will likely enter politics after Uni, I also hope I will hold onto my feeling and principle that I can do all I can for those who are the weakest,poorest and most vulnerable.
If I was carrying nothing and saw someone with loads of bags, I would consider the right, decent and moral thing to do to go and offer assistance to that person.
I see no argument for that not to be practised in all works of life,physically or financially and economically,it is something I really hope I will stay true to all my life.

[Omah]

Can you explain please Omah, would they not get it anyway?

Not necessarily - she could have left the £63m to a cats home - I doubt that we'll ever find out what is in her will but, since her "children" were wayward in her lifetime, compliance with any funeral arrangements may be a condition of inheritance ..... :idc:

[Cherie]

Not necessarily - she could have left the £63m to a cats home - I doubt that we'll ever find out what is in her will but, since her "children" were wayward in her lifetime, compliance with any funeral arrangements may be a condition of inheritance ..... :idc:

oh yeah I get you though I thought she didn't want a fuss.. anyway its knocking all the cuts in benefits right into the long grass so every cloud as they say.

[GiRTh]

4Q42eCy1w2MIn the first few minutes, Paul O'Grady talking about Liverpool under Thatcher and how we now know she gave up on the city.

Its true that you cant please all the people all the time but to give up on one of the most populated cities in the country show just how little Thatcher cared about anyone or anything that didn't fit her agenda.

[arista]

Question Time tonight
has Polly Toynbee

Should be good


In Other News
Kinnock
will not be at the funeral - Thats good

[Omah]

In Other News
Kinnock
will not be at the funeral - Thats good

At the right time, he will pay his respects ..... and spit on her grave ..... :evilgrin:

[Livia]

At the right time, he will pay his respects ..... and spit on her grave ..... :evilgrin:


If you didn't like her policies or respect her has a person, that doesn't excuse the disgusting bile I've seen over the last couple of days, on here and in the wider world.

This disgusting post from Omah just about puts the tin lid on it, topped off with the usual inappropriate emoticon.

[arista]

At the right time, he will pay his respects ..... and spit on her grave ..... :evilgrin:

Kinnock could never be a British PM
he is a loser

[arista]

This Thread is for all to Speak Their mind
even Omah

[Livia]

This Thread is for all to Speak Their mind
even Omah

And following that logic, I can say that his post about spitting on someone's grave, disgusted me.

[arista]

And following that logic, I can say that his post about spitting on someone's grave, disgusted me.


Very True

[Cherie]

I have to say I have seen no "bile spewing" on this thread, just people from both sides expressing their opinions which they should be entitled to do without being attacked, this thread was never meant to be an Eulogy. Each person's opinion is as valid as the next even if they say it with smilies.

[Livia]

I have to say I have seen no "bile spewing" on this thread, just people from both sides expressing their opinions which they should be entitled to do without being attacked, this thread was never meant to be an Eulogy. Each person's opinion is as valid as the next even if they say it with smilies.

And that includes me.

[Cherie]

And that includes me.


it does indeed, it doesn't mean that you can call posters on this thread "bile spewing" with impunity.

[Kizzy]

Far from the political landscape that was forever changed, her hardline and hard face against the troubles and her dealings with despots, what I find the most unforgivable is she was the instigator of setting man against man in the UK.
It began with the miners, using the police as militia and the media as a form of social control, slowly the country had a distinctive 'us and them' feel. She took more than jobs and industry but the heart and spirit of the ordinary working man.
There was no such thing as society, just broken individuals with no pride.
Her divide and conquer methods were divisive but they worked a little too well, as seen if you hack at the fabric of society with scissors don't be surprised if it falls apart.

[arista]

Far from the political landscape that was forever changed, her hardline and hard face against the troubles and her dealings with despots, what I find the most unforgivable is she was the instigator of setting man against man in the UK.
It began with the miners, using the police as militia and the media as a form of social control, slowly the country had a distinctive 'us and them' feel. She took more than jobs and industry but the heart and spirit of the ordinary working man.
There was no such thing as society, just broken individuals with no pride.
Her divide and conquer methods were divisive but they worked a little too well, as seen if you hack at the fabric of society with scissors don't be surprised if it falls apart.


She Created New Labour.

Problem is Blair was like her
so New Labour (including unwanted Brown)wasted in power 13 years.

[Kizzy]

She Created New Labour.

Problem is Blair was like her
so New Labour (including unwanted Brown)wasted in power 13 years.

Arista, my post relates to a time 15yrs before Blair...
And how in that time the social construct of the UK was changed forever.

[arista]

Arista, my post relates to a time 15yrs before Blair...
And how in that time the social construct of the UK was changed forever.



Yes I Know
But the 13 wasted years of New Labour
created problems like Thatcher.


You can not skip it

Thatcher and Blair are the same tin can.

[Kizzy]

Yes I Know
But the 13 wasted years of New Labour
created problems like Thatcher.


You can not skip it

Thatcher and Blair are the same.

He was not the PM that everyone was hoping for no that's a given, bit of a wolf in sheeps clothing that one.
However, as said the issues facing society were changed prior to that, nobody can deny this.

[arista]

He was not the PM that everyone was hoping for no that's a given, bit of a wolf in sheeps clothing that one.
However, as said the issues facing society were changed prior to that, nobody can deny this.


True
Thatcher changed all the Rubbish pilled up on the streets
and sorted Unions out who had Control of Michael Foot - Labour

http://faymondo.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/michael-foot-labour.png

[joeysteele]

Michael Foot had no chance whatsoever to become PM, as with William Hague in 2001 who as opposition leader in 2001 saw an election defeat 99% the same as the previous one in 1997.

Even one of arista's favourite papers/comics,The Sun, called the Conservatives under Hague the dead parrot party.

[Lee.]

Life doesn't have to be fair, but you don't need your own politicians to rig the game against those with the least. My issues with her aren't that she showed the citizens how life isn't fair, it's that she purposefully made it that way.

:worship:

[arista]

Michael Foot had no chance whatsoever to become PM, as with William Hague in 2001 who as opposition leader in 2001 saw an election defeat 99% the same as the previous one in 1997.

Even one of arista's favourite papers/comics,The Sun, called the Conservatives under Hague the dead parrot party.


Yes Sun is Great Value
but I also buy the Guardian.

You can not Box me up.

[Alf]

This Thread is for all to Speak Their mind

But that's not true, i got infracted for speaking my mind.

[arista]

But that's not true, i got infracted for speaking my mind.



but you broke a Rule.
Thats down to you.

[the truth]

thatcher and blair were a disgrace, poor old brown never had the chance but he was right about growing your way out of a recession, major was a bit incompetent. but njowhere near as ruthless (and bad taste in women lol)

[the truth]

And that includes me.

your endless exaggerated indignation offends me. the fact you selectively choose to ignore the real important aspects of posts also offends me. the millions of detsroyed lives and decimated communities youve barely said a word about. very offensive

[Alf]

but you broke a Rule.
Thats down to you.
I agree, i broke a rule, and i'm happy to take the infraction.
but it doesn't alter the fact that at that time i was speaking my mind, so it proves that you can't totally speak your mind.

[Vicky.]

[Speak your mind but do not insult other members] Is a bit too long to be added to the title I think

[joeysteele]

One thing is for certain, in life Margaret Thatcher got people talking as to her and politics all through her active time as PM.
Now in death, people are doing so again with as strong views as they had when she was alive and PM.

I actually think Margaret Thatcher would be proud of that and only be sorry she cannot join in.

[the truth]

One thing is for certain, in life Margaret Thatcher got people talking as to her and politics all through her active time as PM.
Now in death, people are doing so again with as strong views as they had when she was alive and PM.

I actually think Margaret Thatcher would be proud of that and only be sorry she cannot join in.

I respect your opinion here. thatcher was a massively divisive figure, but I get more wound up by the fact the mainstream media are soooo complacent in the way they analyse her so called achievements....also the way the coverage has been so predictably elitist. the BBC has again not displayed enough balance and equanimity imho.....interviewing 2 knighted friends for 15 minutes on bbc news? whats the point.....at one point the 2 sirs were competiting for who could extoll the most absurdly OTT eulogy....embarasing and value-less

[Kizzy]

We all need to be respectful of each others views that's a given :)

[arista]

One thing is for certain, in life Margaret Thatcher got people talking as to her and politics all through her active time as PM.
Now in death, people are doing so again with as strong views as they had when she was alive and PM.

I actually think Margaret Thatcher would be proud of that and only be sorry she cannot join in.

Yes Joey
thats true
Even New Labour is part of this Legacy.

Ref: QT BBC1 last night

[lime]

At home in South Africa she was a goddess amongst the white's during apartheid ,the AWB worshiped her.
She would have been a hyprocrite to chastise the apartheid goverment on imprisoning people without trial whilst she was doing the same in Northern Ireland.

[arista]

At home in South Africa she was a goddess amongst the white's during apartheid ,the AWB worshiped her.
She would have been a hyprocrite to chastise the apartheid goverment on imprisoning people without trial whilst she was doing the same in Northern Ireland.


Yes but back 30years it was nothing like today.

Labours M. Foot leader wanted to get out of Europe

[joeysteele]

Yes but back 30years it was nothing like today.

Labours M. Foot leader wanted to get out of Europe

Now the Conservatives,or at least a large proportion of them do,unlike then.
Maybe Foot was ahead of his time.
Had it been done in his time, there would have been less to walk away from as to Europe and less cost to do so too.

[Nedusa]

More and more revelations regarding the actions of this lady are being posted on this website, and taken together paints a pretty awful picture of a selfish, greedy, bullying woman who had the smell of snobbery, hypocrisy, fascism and elitism about her.

Not the wonderful caring strong leader a lot of people are led to believe...!!

[Sticks]

More and more revelations regarding the actions of this lady are being posted on this website, and taken together paints a pretty awful picture of a selfish, greedy, bullying woman who had the smell of snobbery, hypocrisy, fascism and elitism about her.

Not the wonderful caring strong leader a lot of people are led to believe...!!

She was of her time

You can not judge the past by the present.

The conditions in the 1970's lead to her rise and then her fall was precipitated by those who were moral cowards, wanting to save their own political skins.

[the truth]

She was of her time

You can not judge the past by the present.

The conditions in the 1970's lead to her rise and then her fall was precipitated by those who were moral cowards, wanting to save their own political skins.

we are not doing that, we are judging her in contet of her time and she was a disgrace

[Jesus.]

Leaders should not be judged in context of the times because real leaders change times. We're not talking thousands of years ago.

[arista]

Now the Conservatives,or at least a large proportion of them do,unlike then.
Maybe Foot was ahead of his time.
Had it been done in his time, there would have been less to walk away from as to Europe and less cost to do so too.


No as Europe in 1983 was nothing like now
And Thatcher brought in City Worldwide trading,
something Foot and his Unions did not want.

Also Thatcher sorted Europe out.

[joeysteele]

No as Europe in 1983 was nothing like now
And Thatcher brought in City Worldwide trading,
something Foot and his Unions did not want.

Also Thatcher sorted Europe out.

She didn't, she got a rebate and fought the UKs corner being fair to her but far from sorted it out and then John Major signed the Maastricht treaty after her too.
If anything, around 1985 onwards was the time the EU started to plan and grow into more than maybe it should have been.
Had Foot had his way we wouldn't have been having all these arguments as to Europe over tha last 2 decades or so.

I think he was wrong, I would support staying in the EU but he was possibly just a few years too early.

Just as now, the Conservatives now are likely too late,despite David Cameron's huff and puff,no way will he hold a referendum that he thinks will get a no vote as to Europe.
No way at all.
I don't believe he has any real intention of delivering that referendum unless he was sure support had turned as to being in favour of staying in.

[the truth]

europe is one of the few things she did get right. the whole damn project is an unaccountable wasteful orwellian nightmare

[Sticks]

we are not doing that, we are judging her in contet of her time and she was a disgrace

In which case you need to look at the times of the late 1970's with wildcat strikes causing overseas companies not to invest in the UK. Coal that was more expensive to mine than to import making British goods uncompetitive.

You also have to consider a union leader who refused conduct a ballot before calling a strike.

You also have to consider the state of the then labour party, and how under Michael Foot it came up with an election manifesto that was described by a labour grandee as the longest suicide note in history

It was the events of those times that would lead to her election as Prime Minister in 1979 and win her two successive general elections.

If she was that unpopular why did people vote for her?

Thereby lies the paradox that was Margaret Thatcher

[the truth]

In which case you need to look at the times of the late 1970's with wildcat strikes causing overseas companies not to invest in the UK. Coal that was more expensive to mine than to import making British goods uncompetitive.

You also have to consider a union leader who refused conduct a ballot before calling a strike.

You also have to consider the state of the then labour party, and how under Michael Foot it came up with an election manifesto that was described by a labour grandee as the longest suicide note in history

It was the events of those times that would lead to her election as Prime Minister in 1979 and win her two successive general elections.

If she was that unpopular why did people vote for her?

Thereby lies the paradox that was Margaret Thatcher

gee thanks lol............I assure you ive done all that i LIVED THROUGH IT A;LL as did my friends and families...........she was a disgrace. she went way way over the top and found zero balance..showed no empathy for any of her many victims..........she treated her fellow country men as the enemy.

she got in the way hitler got in, simply by th efact the nation was on its knees and anyone pointing to a better tomorrow woud have defeated labour in 1979.........her short term strategies meant people gave her another chance to get our economy on track.....worzel gummidge would have won the 79 election.......lower taxes on the rich from 88%, get inflation down over a few years.......the rest a disaster

she literally did only 1 thing right and thats europe........the rest was a disastrous elitist nightmare

[Jack_]

8VRRWuryb4k

Knew she'd said this and know a bit about Section 28 but didn't know there was a video of the speech. Vile. And people wonder why that song is being downloaded by some...

[Redway]

I have to agree that was a pretty nasty speech to be fair.

[arista]

Knew she'd said this and know a bit about Section 28 but didn't know there was a video of the speech. Vile. And people wonder why that song is being downloaded by some...


So What Jack
thats 30 years ago.


What about Labour 30 years ago
Fecking Same

[Tom4784]

She's dead, I just do not see the point in hating on her anymore. It will only hurt her family because nothing can hurt her now.

Save your hate for the living, there's plenty of despicable people still alive and kicking.

[joeysteele]

8VRRWuryb4k

Knew she'd said this and know a bit about Section 28 but didn't know there was a video of the speech. Vile. And people wonder why that song is being downloaded by some...

Apparantly,I am told she never relented from that speech either Jack.
30 years ago or not it was still vile.

[Kizzy]

I am so sick of hearing that same tired line, shes dead... yes she is so I say say what the hell you like!
Hurting families?... What tory has ever give a toss about that?
There is no such thing as society mags said, Well there must be a strange phenomenon occurring then as millions of individuals are experiencing the same thought... 'ding effing dong!'

[Jack_]

Just because she's dead it doesn't mean her legacy is over, in fact it's anything but and is growing year by year. She might be dead but her ideology lives on, and as she is to blame for instigating it, who else are we supposed to discuss and direct the hatred towards? Of course politicians and parties in existence now are part of the problem, but Thatcher started Thatcherism, no one else.

I'm not rejoicing at the fact she is dead, to me it doesn't change anything, but I can certainly understand why some who are worse off than me and lived through her time in office are celebrating. She wouldn't have cared anyway, she was hardly the most compassionate woman - someone raised a good point on Question Time last night, I think if she knew some people weren't protesting and celebrating her passing, and that she hadn't divided the nation once again, she'd be thoroughly disappointed. As for her family, they'll have had decades to prepare for this and I'm pretty sure they'll have heard pretty awful things about her in the past anyway, it comes with the territory. Right now I'm sure they are most concerned about the impending funeral and supporting one another, not internet campaigns and inevitable protests. We're talking about Margaret Thatcher, not Betty from number 2 down the road.

[Tom4784]

I am so sick of hearing that same tired line, shes dead... yes she is so I say say what the hell you like!
Hurting families?... What tory has ever give a toss about that?
There is no such thing as society mags said, Well there must be a strange phenomenon occurring then as millions of individuals are experiencing the same thought... 'ding effing dong!'

First off it's called Empathy, how would you feel about it if people were leading such a campaign against a recently deceased member of your family? Would you like it if someone was laughing at you because you lost someone you loved? You wouldn't like it at all, so why condone it?

Just because someone treats you badly it doesn't give you the right to treat their family horribly, doing that just makes you as bad as them, in fact it makes you worse.

It's just tacky and undignified. Like seriously, have some self respect, people who are acting with glee about it are just making themselves look like dicks.

[Ninastar]

First off it's called Empathy, how would you feel about it if people were leading such a campaign against a recently deceased member of your family? Would you like it if someone was laughing at you because you lost someone you loved? You wouldn't like it at all, so why condone it?

Just because someone treats you badly it doesn't give you the right to treat their family horribly, doing that just makes you as bad as them, in fact it makes you worse.

It's just tacky and undignified. Like seriously, have some self respect people who are acting with glee about it are just making themselves look like dicks.

:worship:

and that's all i've been saying the whole time. no matter the person she way, what people are doing about her death is worse.

[GypsyGoth]

I agree.

Filling yourself with pettiness and bitterness is only damaging yourself. Rejoicing in the death of another will have no effect on them since they're dead. If the rejoicing is a way to release some of the pent up bitterness, I think it only passes on ill feeling and continues cycles.

I think forgiving is much more beneficial. That way you can release the bad feelings you harbour for someone and you can move on.

[Alf]

First off it's called Empathy, how would you feel about it if people were leading such a campaign against a recently deceased member of your family? Would you like it if someone was laughing at you because you lost someone you loved? You wouldn't like it at all, so why condone it?

Just because someone treats you badly it doesn't give you the right to treat their family horribly, doing that just makes you as bad as them, in fact it makes you worse.

It's just tacky and undignified. Like seriously, have some self respect, people who are acting with glee about it are just making themselves look like dicks.
I didn't see you giving this sort of passionate sympathy for Jimmy Savile's family.

[Ninastar]

these comparisons are laughable

[Kizzy]

First off it's called Empathy, how would you feel about it if people were leading such a campaign against a recently deceased member of your family? Would you like it if someone was laughing at you because you lost someone you loved? You wouldn't like it at all, so why condone it?

Just because someone treats you badly it doesn't give you the right to treat their family horribly, doing that just makes you as bad as them, in fact it makes you worse.

It's just tacky and undignified. Like seriously, have some self respect people who are acting with glee about it are just making themselves look like dicks.

First off it has been accepted by the metropolitan police that there is a democratic right to protest.
Quite frankly I feel the rest of your post is laughable, seriously if after all the testimony, facts and opinion across these threads I find it hard to believe why anyone who has a view would be called a 'dick'?
We all have a perspective, I appreciate you don't see why some feel passionately enough to take to the streets.
However, those who do choose to demonstrate have the right to be heard, using the funeral of the person that you feel is the the root cause of the problems we currently face may seem extreme... it is though representative of feeling across the UK.

[Brother Leon]

I didn't see you giving this sort of passionate sympathy for Jimmy Savile's family.

these comparisons are laughable

Not really. What did Savile's family do after all?

[Ninastar]

Not really. What did Savile's family do after all?

sorry, i didn't realise that music was bought in jest of his death

[Tom4784]

I didn't see you giving this sort of passionate sympathy for Jimmy Savile's family.

I think you are confusing me with someone else, I don't think I've ever said anything about Jimmy Saville except that I wouldn't judge him without knowing all the details before everything came to light. I don't think I've mentioned him since?

My views seem to cause such a volatile reaction in you that you are forgetting who said what.

[Tom4784]

First off it has been accepted by the metropolitan police that there is a democratic right to protest.
Quite frankly I feel the rest of your post is laughable, seriously if after all the testimony, facts and opinion across these threads I find it hard to believe why anyone who has a view would be called a 'dick'?
We all have a perspective, I appreciate you don't see why some feel passionately enough to take to the streets.
However, those who do choose to demonstrate have the right to be heard, using the funeral of the person that you feel is the the root cause of the problems we currently face may seem extreme... it is though representative of feeling across the UK.

What's there to protest? She's dead, she can't change anything now.

People are not protesting, they are rejoicing over someone dying and nothing can change that fact. You can keep dressing it up as something noble but in the end you're laughing at a dead old woman who is beyond caring now. The only people getting hurt are her family.

[Brother Leon]

sorry, i didn't realise that music was bought in jest of his death

Doesn't matter. He was still made a joke of and hated on when dead while his family would of had to put up with it.

[Locke.]

NtwavcblPzo

[Ninastar]

Doesn't matter. He was still made a joke of and hated on when dead while his family would of had to put up with it.

he was a pedophile... are you saying that margaret was just as bad and deserves the hate?

[Omah]

"Ding-Dong! The Witch Is Dead"

:idc:

Typical

"Which old Witch? The Wicked Witch! Ding Dong! The Wicked Witch is dead."

:cheer2:

I don't usually buy music (my collection is already large enough to a lifetime) but, for 69p, I've just made an exception ..... :pipe:

[Brother Leon]

NtwavcblPzo

:joker:. Studio version should of been made and put on iTunes if they were going to have go through the trouble of a campaign tbh.

Imagine the BBC then :joker:

[Locke.]

Great work Omah

[MTVN]

Good old Maggie

[Brother Leon]

he was a pedophile... are you saying that margaret was just as bad and deserves the hate?

She wasn't as bad no. An absolutely terrible person who deserves all of this though. His family were completely innocent though so by this logic, no hate should of been shown towards Savile for his family..right?

[Alf]

I think you are confusing me with someone else, I don't think I've ever said anything about Jimmy Saville except that I wouldn't judge him without knowing all the details before everything came to light. I don't think I've mentioned him since?

My views seem to cause such a volatile reaction in you that you are forgetting who said what.
Where have i been volatile? i'm not the one lecturing people and calling them dicks because they want to rejoice that she's dead.

[Redway]

What's there to protest? She's dead, she can't change anything now.

People are not protesting, they are rejoicing over someone dying and nothing can change that fact. You can keep dressing it up as something noble but in the end you're laughing at a dead old woman who is beyond caring now. The only people getting hurt are her family.

Better expressed than I've been able to say so far. :worship:

[Marsh.]

"When Margaret Thatcher dies"? :confused:

Did the scousers not get the memo? She is dead. :laugh:

[Josy]

The protest tomorrow/today was arranged 20+ years ago wasnt it?

The feelings of resentment these people have about her and her policies are so strong that they wont disappear immediately just because she's died and I'm pretty sure all the praise she's been receiving in the media these past few days will be making it even worse, so they are no doubt using these protests as a means of releasing it all.

[Locke.]

"When Margaret Thatcher dies"? :confused:

Did the scousers not get the memo? She is dead. :laugh:

Months ago

[Marsh.]

It seems humour is lost on some people. ;)

[Brother Leon]

Silly scousers always behind when it comes to current events.

[Jack_]

Just finished watching a great documentary on the miners strike of 1984

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ubgig29l4k

Really highlights some of the appalling police brutality and it is so depressing to witness working class people turning on other working class people :( oh, and just when I thought I couldn't despise Kelvin MacKenzie anymore, he appears in this, and his contributions are truly repulsive. What an odious ******.

[Kizzy]

It is and notable is the change in title when there is a conservative government from a police 'service' to a police 'force'...
Divide and conquer has always been the motive behind their policies as far as I'm concerned.
Funny how the onus is the watering down of her influence on the now diseased face of the UK.

“The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.”
― George Orwell

[lime]

Yes but back 30years it was nothing like today.

Labours M. Foot leader wanted to get out of Europe

I am fully aware how long ago this took place arista.As I have already mentioned I am South African and probably should have mentioned I don't live in the UK so I have no idea who M.Foot is or his relevance to this thread.

Was there any other right winged bigots in that era??..absolutely .
But as this thread is about Margaret Thatcher I will stick to talking about this particular bigot.

[Sticks]

The use of a certain song from a 1930's film has upset those who took part in the film

See here (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4885886/munchkin-fury-at-thatcher-ding-dong-song.html)

Do these left wing people realise the hurt they have done to those who took part in the creation of this movie who are still with us?

[arista]

The use of a certain song from a 1930's film has upset those who took part in the film

See here (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4885886/munchkin-fury-at-thatcher-ding-dong-song.html)

Do these left wing people realise the hurt they have done to those who took part in the creation of this movie who are still with us?


No Jack does not care

[arista]

I am fully aware how long ago this took place arista.As I have already mentioned I am South African and probably should have mentioned I don't live in the UK so I have no idea who M.Foot is or his relevance to this thread.

Was there any other right winged bigots in that era??..absolutely .
But as this thread is about Margaret Thatcher I will stick to talking about this particular bigot.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d1/Michael_Foot_1982.jpg/220px-Michael_Foot_1982.jpg


Labours (Union backed) Michael Foot
was in power until Oct 1983
so he is important to bring him up
as Thatcher Won that '83 Election.

[Jesus.]

The use of a certain song from a 1930's film has upset those who took part in the film

DON'T BUY THE SUN

Do these left wing people realise the hurt they have done to those who took part in the creation of this movie who are still with us?

What next? A seance with the tin man? I'm pretty sure the hurt felt by these actors isn't comparable with people who lost everything because of MT's policies.

This has to be the weakest excuse yet.

[lostalex]

Let's all look on the bright side. At least no British person can ever say that they have a more civilized, less polarized democracy than the US. If we've learned nothing else at least we've learned this.

[joeysteele]

The protest tomorrow/today was arranged 20+ years ago wasnt it?

The feelings of resentment these people have about her and her policies are so strong that they wont disappear immediately just because she's died and I'm pretty sure all the praise she's been receiving in the media these past few days will be making it even worse, so they are no doubt using these protests as a means of releasing it all.

This outpouring of all the tributes from people,many who actually were glad to see the back of her but who are now going on as if she was a paragon of virtue and a near Saint.
They are by far as sickening as anyone who has stuck to their principles and the feelings they have that she was a woman not to be particularly honoured.

Why should peoples opinions have to change,when they have likely learned of and even seen the devastation brought to their communities and families from her time in power.

I have said, I have nothing against her but I am already sick of this gushing of what I see as false sentiment from loads of clearly 2 faced people who at the first opportunity when she was alive, destroyed all her hopes and all she still hoped to do herself in politics.
What sheer hypocrisy.

I think I have more admiration for those who have stood by their principles that didn't like her.
Why on earth should they have to shut up while this artificial kind of canonisation takes place as to her.

She was a strongly divisive figure, she loved creating and dealing with confrontation it seems, now she has died,taht division remains.
Of course respect the dead but this funeral and all that has gone on this week, even the recall of Parliament is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion, as is taxpayers sharing any costs of her funeral.
It is as if attempts to brainwash everyone into believing the Woman was a Saint is taking place.

I just find this whole preparation and the events of the PM rushing back from Europe, spending more time in the commons than he likely has done before for her 'tribute day' nauseating.

I could have understood it more had she still been a serving PM or just retired,no sorry that should be just been sacked by her party.
However, after over 20 years on from being PM, for goodness sake, this is ridiculous and even more so in these economic times.

[Jesus.]

Let's all look on the bright side. At least no British person can ever say that they have a more civilized, less polarized democracy than the US. If we've learned nothing else at least we've learned this.

Democracy by it's very nature is polarised, but the right polarise on magic thinking like trickle down economics being a viable and workable plan, and climate change is a UN, Soros, and Michael Moore conspiracy.

That's the difference. The stupidity that America has in it's governing bodies is unsurpassed by anyone else in the first world.

[lostalex]

Democracy by it's very nature is polarised, but the right polarise on magic thinking like trickle down economics being a viable and workable plan, and climate change is a UN, Soros, and Michael Moore conspiracy.

That's the difference. The stupidity that America has in it's governing bodies is unsurpassed by anyone else in the first world.

Well that's not true, because America's governing bodies are less stupid than those in the UK.

[thesheriff443]

we are still on this subject on page 26!
you cant change the past!, put your energy into trying to change the future.

[Jesus.]

we are still on this subject on page 26!
you cant change the past!, put your energy into trying to change the future.

Unless you learn from history, you're doomed to continue making the same mistakes over and over again.

[Jesus.]

Well that's not true, because America's governing bodies are less stupid than those in the UK.

Bachmann, Inhoe, Ryan, Boehner, McConnell, McCain, Graham, Cruz, Perry, West, Palin, Cantor, Walker to name but a few. All well versed in magical and insane thinking.

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/4/12/231890/default/v1/sun-1-329x437.jpg
I bought the Sun today

JHC can get stuffed

[Ammi]

..I don’t think I’ve challenged any political views in terms of Margaret Thatcher and do appreciate some of the passion involved in people’s opinions of her personally, if either they themselves or loved ones etc, have suffered huge losses in her time in power...(and I’m not just specifically talking about this forum..)...but I do find the strength of feeling towards her death/funeral etc , which I think in some cases could be described as hatred...is not only distasteful/pointless etc but what worries me is that even if the planned protests go without adverse incident.. damage to innocents property/injuries/loss of lives ..is that the feelings which have ‘united’ the nation with negativity and hatred won’t disappear because the country is still in deep recession and those negative feelings will continue as I honestly don’t see that the feelings are going to be satisfied or find any sense of ‘closure’ etc...because there is no closure to be had with this...

..and for me, I feel quite saddened by it all because it’s a bit like watching a crowd chanting for a public hanging..I know that’s not the same thing but it’s how it feels..she’s dead, nothing is going to change either that or whatever has happened in the past and all of this hatred only aims to hurt the innocent...we have far too many things wrong with the country in the present to use our energy on and it’s pointless arguing whether that’s her ‘legacy’ as well or not because that will neither change them or solve them...

...and this is not some Dictator that ruled a country until their death and caused celebration from an oppressed nation..she hasn't been in power for many years and all of those years could have been used to vent this hatred/anger..whether she took any notice or not, at least she would have heard it..but now it's her loved ones who hear it and at a time when they are suffering great personal grief....and whatever people feel her legacy is, it still remains and is unchanged....

[Jesus.]

mo7CRHkbMnk

JHC can get stuffed

I expect nothing else from you Arista. It actually suits you.

[billy123]

Well that's not true, because America's governing bodies are less stupid than those in the UK.Your bait has gone stale Alex you might want to try changing it nobody is biting due to it being so repetitively anti UK it just gets boring after the first 5000 times.

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/13/article-2308091-19427BA9000005DC-413_306x423.jpg

Dominic Francis has organised
a demonstration on the
Baroness Thatcher funeral route


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/12/article-2308091-193A310A000005DC-317_634x556.jpg

[Mastermind behind plans to disrupt Thatcher
funeral is Oxford student whose
parents live in £700,000 house in Tunbridge Wells
25-year-old Dominic Francis
studies at Oxford's Rushkin College
Fanatics plan to 'celebrate' Iron Lady's
death in Central London today
If people do break the law they will be
properly dealt with,' Mayor said
Police preparing for planned protest
in Trafalgar Square tonight
Members of Durham Miners' Association
among those taking part]
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2308091/Dominic-Francis-Mastermind-plans-disrupt-Thatcher-funeral-Oxford-student-parents-live-700-000-house-Tunbridge-Wells.html



Demo today
Pain in the ass

[Kizzy]

Yes she is dead and as she was the public face of capitalism, wrath and avarice...
The people of the UK are resilient many have put up and shut up for years, 'what purpose will it serve?' It will serve to show there is such a thing as society, community, and humanity still alive today. More homogenised than before but with a determination and resolve that was once seen as a positive trait in this country.

[Jesus.]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/13/article-2308091-19427BA9000005DC-413_306x423.jpg

Dominic Francis has organised
a demonstration on the
Baroness Thatcher funeral route


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/12/article-2308091-193A310A000005DC-317_634x556.jpg

[Mastermind behind plans to disrupt Thatcher
funeral is Oxford student whose
parents live in £700,000 house in Tunbridge Wells
25-year-old Dominic Francis
studies at Oxford's Rushkin College
Fanatics plan to 'celebrate' Iron Lady's
death in Central London today
If people do break the law they will be
properly dealt with,' Mayor said
Police preparing for planned protest
in Trafalgar Square tonight
Members of Durham Miners' Association
among those taking part]
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2308091/Dominic-Francis-Mastermind-plans-disrupt-Thatcher-funeral-Oxford-student-parents-live-700-000-house-Tunbridge-Wells.html



Demo today
Pain in the ass

What does the wealth of his parents have to do with anything? Only poor people can promote the cause of the poor?

[Tom4784]

I think the only thing it shows is that there's a lot of bitter, pitiful and rather pathetic people around. The protest will achieve nothing but hurt an already grieving family, There's no honour in it at all, it's just incredibly petty and cruel.

[Kazanne]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/13/article-2308091-19427BA9000005DC-413_306x423.jpg

Dominic Francis has organised
a demonstration on the
Baroness Thatcher funeral route


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/12/article-2308091-193A310A000005DC-317_634x556.jpg

[Mastermind behind plans to disrupt Thatcher
funeral is Oxford student whose
parents live in £700,000 house in Tunbridge Wells
25-year-old Dominic Francis
studies at Oxford's Rushkin College
Fanatics plan to 'celebrate' Iron Lady's
death in Central London today
If people do break the law they will be
properly dealt with,' Mayor said
Police preparing for planned protest
in Trafalgar Square tonight
Members of Durham Miners' Association
among those taking part]
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2308091/Dominic-Francis-Mastermind-plans-disrupt-Thatcher-funeral-Oxford-student-parents-live-700-000-house-Tunbridge-Wells.html



Demo today
Pain in the ass

http://www.coolgenerators.com/temp/fa7705c15c808fde0041dc5e4edfceca46f337a3.gif (http://www.coolgenerators.com/)

[Cherie]

This outpouring of all the tributes from people,many who actually were glad to see the back of her but who are now going on as if she was a paragon of virtue and a near Saint.
They are by far as sickening as anyone who has stuck to their principles and the feelings they have that she was a woman not to be particularly honoured.

Why should peoples opinions have to change,when they have likely learned of and even seen the devastation brought to their communities and families from her time in power.

I have said, I have nothing against her but I am already sick of this gushing of what I see as false sentiment from loads of clearly 2 faced people who at the first opportunity when she was alive, destroyed all her hopes and all she still hoped to do herself in politics.
What sheer hypocrisy.

I think I have more admiration for those who have stood by their principles that didn't like her.
Why on earth should they have to shut up while this artificial kind of canonisation takes place as to her.

She was a strongly divisive figure, she loved creating and dealing with confrontation it seems, now she has died,taht division remains.
Of course respect the dead but this funeral and all that has gone on this week, even the recall of Parliament is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion, as is taxpayers sharing any costs of her funeral.
It is as if attempts to brainwash everyone into believing the Woman was a Saint is taking place.

I just find this whole preparation and the events of the PM rushing back from Europe, spending more time in the commons than he likely has done before for her 'tribute day' nauseating.

I could have understood it more had she still been a serving PM or just retired,no sorry that should be just been sacked by her party.
However, after over 20 years on from being PM, for goodness sake, this is ridiculous and even more so in these economic times.


Great points.

[Kizzy]

I think the only thing it shows is that there's a lot of bitter, pitiful and rather pathetic people around. The protest will achieve nothing but hurt an already grieving family, There's no honour in it at all, it's just incredibly petty and cruel.

Yes they're called the conservative party ...

[Kizzy]

this x 1000000
''I could have understood it more had she still been a serving PM or just retired,no sorry that should be just been sacked by her party.
However, after over 20 years on from being PM, for goodness sake, this is ridiculous and even more so in these economic times.''

Talk about rubbing salt in the wounds, found the money for this disgusting show of conspicuous consumption ok I see?... This will be the turning point for the UK on many levels.

[Cherie]

What does the wealth of his parents have to do with anything? Only poor people can promote the cause of the poor?

Nicely put. (pains me to say so though.:joker:)

[Kizzy]

It seems the only people allowed to have a social conscience are 'loony' lefties and benefit claimants? the ones who are usually crowing at the 'hand wringers' have the boot on the other foot today... :joker:
There are lot's of 'bleeding hearts' here, but I doubt that in some cases it is for the greater good.

[Jack_]

The reason this demonstration is going to happen is because tax payers money is being spent on this woman's funeral when she didn't even request it. She is being shoved in our face like some God by practically every media organisation and for those who felt the brunt of her policies and legacy, and who are already experiencing difficult financial times at the hands of this government who are keeping Thatcherism well and truly alive, the fact that their money is being spent funding the funeral of a former Prime Minister who caused their problems is rubbing salt into the wounds and is absolutely disgraceful. That's why the demonstrations will be happening, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, it's a democratic right and I don't see why people should just have to put up and shut up when their much-needed money is being spent on what is essentially one big ass-kissing party for Thatcherites. The demonstrations are anti tax payer funded funerals and anti Thatcherism (not her, her ideology) - I don't see what's wrong with that, peaceful demonstrations are and should be allowed to take place and I really don't see how her family will care that much, as I said before I think they'll have come to expect this for many years (and I do hope nobody is surprised by what's happening, these kind of things have been in the pipeline for decades) and their focus will be on the funeral, not what's going on outside of it. Any real trouble will occur when the police take it into their hands and attempt to curb people's civil liberties, and you can bet your bottom dollar that it'll be spun into a hate campaign against those demonstrating. A sorry state of affairs for democracy.

[Cherie]

I think the only thing it shows is that there's a lot of bitter, pitiful and rather pathetic people around. The protest will achieve nothing but hurt an already grieving family, There's no honour in it at all, it's just incredibly petty and cruel.

I'm surprised at the name calling that has gone on in at least two of your posts, I find it very unnecessary, this thread has some excellent well written and well thought out posts from both sides, I find ridiculing people for their thoughts by name calling incredibly immature.

[InOne]

I'm surprised at the name calling that has gone on in at least two of your posts, I find it very unnecessary, this thread has some excellent well written and well thought out posts from both sides, I find ridiculing people for their thoughts by name calling incredibly immature.

It's almost like some think people want to protest or dislike Thatcher just for the sake of it. That 'She's dead now so just forget everything that happened' attitude.

[Kizzy]

Exactly, we can't draw a line under the past so neatly, the domino rally she set up is still going knocking everyone up and down the country over.
Pulling yourself up from the bootstraps is the easy part, it is treading water with those boots on that's the hard part now.
One positive to be gained here is some younger voters are looking at her policies and seeing for the first time how reminiscent they are of todays austerity measures....
Do they want this future for their children, is there anything they can do to change the failures of the past being repeated and resigning more to the scrapheap?

[Tom4784]

I just think it's stupid to do anything now, she's dead. Why not do any of this when she was alive? Any potentially noble motivations are overshadowed by the fact that the outcy is basically mocking a grieving family. That's the only outcome here.

I'm not even going to call what's happening a protest, it's an insult to actual meaningful protests.

[Tom4784]

I'm surprised at the name calling that has gone on in at least two of your posts, I find it very unnecessary, this thread has some excellent well written and well thought out posts from both sides, I find ridiculing people for their thoughts by name calling incredibly immature.

I've not called anyone names, stop trying to make out I'm saying something I'm not. The movement that's happened after Thatcher's death is pointless and petty. That's the long and short of it.

[Kizzy]

I just think it's stupid to do anything now, she's dead. Why not do any of this when she was alive? Any potentially noble motivations are overshadowed by the fact that the outcy is basically mocking a grieving family. That's the only outcome here.

I'm not even going to call what's happening a protest, it's an insult to actual meaningful protests.

There were plenty of riots and protests whilst she was alive dezzy, Brixton... poll tax.. miners... anti war ...
The government are making a mockery of the whole of England with this funeral.
It is a protest and as this charade is publicly funded there is every right for the public to have their say!

[Jack_]

wrxy93fY3vI

First of these videos I've actually watched, interesting to hear some of the reasonings behind the celebrations...that's not really being reported anywhere else. Think people have to keep an open mind on what's going on, there's two sides to every story.

[Kizzy]

And again... More 'strivers' not 'skivers' peacefully protesting, there is a feeling of liberation there, some feel the Thatcher legacy was an oppressive regime that has filtered down and is still corrupting and polluting society today...
The sense of relief can be felt.
hZ7BZcBgQew

[Jack_]

And again... More 'strivers' not 'skivers' peacefully protesting, there is a feeling of liberation there, some feel the Thatcher legacy was an oppressive regime that has filtered down and is still corrupting and polluting society today...
The sense of relief can be felt.
MgaYos7q24o#!

Absolutely. This is what I'm not understanding, some people seem to think that because she's dead that's it, time to move on, as if her ideology isn't still prevalent today when it is. She's the cause of this individualistic, selfish, capitalist, greedy, unjust, austerity driven state ridden with inequality, she changed the face of British politics and while I don't agree with those celebrating her death as if it's now over, I don't agree with not celebrating her death as if it's now over too...if that makes sense. It should be more of a protest about everything she stood for that still exists today, there's nothing wrong with that. I mean those kind of demonstrations have been happening for years since she left office but not on such a large scale, the only reason her ideology has been brought to the fore again is because she's died, that's just inevitable. Much like how when Michael Jackson died suddenly twenty-odd songs of his ended up in the chart, it just brings issues to people's attention on a much larger scale again. This was always going to happen when she passed away, anyone that didn't expect it has been living under a rock. Her family, if anyone, would've expected this more than anything and comes to terms with it decades ago, it comes with the territory and they'll have heard so many awful things about her over the years - as I said earlier, she was Margaret Thatcher, one of this country's most divisive political figures, not Betty from down the road.

[Jake.]

Absolutely. This is what I'm not understanding, some people seem to think that because she's dead that's it, time to move on, as if her ideology isn't still prevalent today when it is. She's the cause of this individualistic, selfish, capitalist, greedy, unjust, austerity driven state ridden with inequality, she changed the face of British politics and while I don't agree with those celebrating her death as if it's now over, I don't agree with not celebrating her death as if it's now over too...if that makes sense. It should be more of a protest about everything she stood for that still exists today, there's nothing wrong with that. I mean those kind of demonstrations have been happening for years since she left office but not on such a large scale, the only reason her ideology has been brought to the fore again is because she's died, that's just inevitable. Much like how when Michael Jackson died suddenly twenty-odd songs of his ended up in the chart, it just brings issues to people's attention on a much larger scale again. This was always going to happen when she passed away, anyone that didn't expect it has been living under a rock. Her family, if anyone, would've expected this more than anything and comes to terms with it decades ago, it comes with the territory and they'll have heard so many awful things about her over the years - as I said earlier, she was Margaret Thatcher, one of this country's most divisive political figures, not Betty from down the road.

I agree with you, except it just isn't going to be like that. Of course, people will be protesting for the 'right' reasons, however some not.

[Tom4784]

I just think such celebrations are counter productive, all it will do is hinder anything they're trying to achieve since it gives the opposition the moral high ground. The celebrations will always make people look like inbred yobs, it's not mature, clever or justified and it just makes people look worse then the people they're hating.

[Brother Leon]

Premier League ‏@EPLStuff 11m
Liverpool fans singing, "We're all having a party 'cos Maggie Thatcher's dead" at the Madejski Stadium. Reading fans respond with boos.

John Brewin ‏@JohnBrewinESPN 7m

Liverpool fans making their sentiments on Thatcher clear and heading for the front pages too, probably. Not that they will care.

Djimi ‏@DjimiTraore 11m

Hahahaha Liverpool fans doing the conga for Thatcher

--

Meltdown on Twitter at the moment :joker:. Dad is there. Hopefully he's recorded some of it :devil:

[Jake.]

Oh and that twat organising a 'demonstration' on the route of her funeral? Sorry but if that isn't completely disrespectful, I don't know what is. Funerals are the day where the living mourne their loved one, and it's hard enough to get through as it is.

[Jack_]

I agree with you, except it just isn't going to be like that. Of course, people will be protesting for the 'right' reasons, however some not.

I have to disagree I think, on the subject of the 'celebrations' that have so far happened like I posted in that video above, a lot of the signs were anti-austerity and anti-capitalist ones so that's still relevant to her legacy, and on the subject of the demonstrations at the funeral, like I said earlier, the reason they'll be happening is because of this disgusting tax-payer funded funeral (that she didn't even request) rubbing salt into the wounds of the people and communities she destroyed the most who are already experiencing financial difficulties at the hands of this government who are continuing her legacy, and they'll only turn into anything but peaceful demonstrations if and when the police decide to get involved and curb people's civil liberties. It won't be reported that way of course, it'll be that the demonstrators kicked off and everyone will just lap it up and the real point of the demonstrations will be totally lost behind a furore of calculated outrage from the right-wing press.

[Jake.]

I have to disagree I think, on the subject of the 'celebrations' that have so far happened like I posted in that video above, a lot of the signs were anti-austerity and anti-capitalist ones so that's still relevant to her legacy, and on the subject of the demonstrations at the funeral, like I said earlier, the reason they'll be happening is because of this disgusting tax-payer funded funeral (that she didn't even request) rubbing salt into the wounds of the people and communities she destroyed the most who are already experiencing financial difficulties at the hands of this government who are continuing her legacy, and they'll only turn into anything but peaceful demonstrations if and when the police decide to get involved and curb people's civil liberties. It won't be reported that way of course, it'll be that the demonstrators kicked off and everyone will just lap it up and the real point of the demonstrations will be totally lost behind a furore of calculated outrage from the right-wing press.

Oh exactly, the one she didn't request, yet is still being used as the cause over networking sites. And I wasn't saying that the above videos don't show that, but the fact is that there will be worse 'demonstrations' by certain groups. And I still think that, on the day of her funeral, these protests just shouldn't happen.

[Tom4784]

Oh and that twat organising a 'demonstration' on the route of her funeral? Sorry but if that isn't completely disrespectful, I don't know what is. Funerals are the day where the living mourne their loved one, and it's hard enough to get through as it is.

Yeah it's no different to the Westboro Baptist Church picketing a funeral really. I can't see how you can justify it.

Her death has truly brought out the worst in people. Like I've always said, you can tell more about a person on how they treat their inferiors and their enemies than how they treat their equals.

The only thing the behavior of people recently tells me is that people are as bad as the people they hate and that they haven't learned from the past.

[Jake.]

Yeah it's no different to the Westboro Baptist Church picketing a funeral really. I can't see how you can justify it.

Her death has truly brought out the worst in people. Like I've always said, you can tell more about a person on how they treat their inferiors and their enemies than how they treat their equals.

The only thing the behavior of people recently tells me is that people are as bad as the people they hate and that they haven't learned from the past.

:worship:

It's like seeing those Anti-gay communities turning up to a funeral (and no I am not comparing the actual situation or people involved, my point is is that it's a day where the dead should be allowed to be given a decent send off by family and friends).

[Jack_]

Oh exactly, the one she didn't request, yet is still being used as the cause over networking sites. And I wasn't saying that the above videos don't show that, but the fact is that there will be worse 'demonstrations' by certain groups. And I still think that, on the day of her funeral, these protests just shouldn't happen.

Even when it has been funded in part by the people she trampled on throughout her time as PM? I'd have a lot more sympathy if it wasn't, but as it is, I think they've brought it on themselves. Funding the funeral of a woman who destroyed these people's communities with their own money is just provocative.

When you step into politics, this is what you open yourself up to, and she more than anyone knew that and embraced that, I raised the point the other day but someone on Question Time said that if she knew people weren't protesting and she hadn't divided people again, she'd be very disappointed. You cannot rid people of their right to protest, if this were a normal old lady it could be seen differently potentially, but it's not, it's Thatcher, and so long as the demonstration remains relatively respectful and focused on being anti-everything she stood for and not poking fun at her in front of her relatives, I think it'll be fine. Like I said though, if the latter does happen I expect it'll be because the police have provoked it, if they leave them be there'll be no excuses if it turns into anything but a demonstration.

[Tom4784]

If you're protesting the funding part of things why not protest it before it happens? What's the point in protesting it when it happens? It'll be too late to stop the money being used up by then. There is nothing to be gained by protesting on the same day as the Funeral.

It's just going to cause more distress then necessary to her family.

[Jake.]

Even when it has been funded in part by the people she trampled on throughout her time as PM? I'd have a lot more sympathy if it wasn't, but as it is, I think they've brought it on themselves. Funding the funeral of a woman who destroyed these people's communities with their own money is just provocative.

When you step into politics, this is what you open yourself up to, and she more than anyone knew that and embraced that, I raised the point the other day but someone on Question Time said that if she knew people weren't protesting and she hadn't divided people again, she'd be very disappointed. You cannot rid people of their right to protest, if this were a normal old lady it could be seen differently potentially, but it's not, it's Thatcher, and so long as the demonstration remains relatively respectful and focused on being anti-everything she stood for and not poking fun at her in front of her relatives, I think it'll be fine. Like I said though, if the latter does happen I expect it'll be because the police have provoked it, if they leave them be there'll be no excuses if it turns into anything but a demonstration.

The thing is, that just isn't her doing. Protest against the government for it, fine, but no doubt she's going to get even more criticism for something which she had no involvement in, on the day of her funeral which is just pointless. And I know that, as a political figure, you are open to all types of criticism, even from beyond the grave, but specifically choosing to round up others on the day of her funeral is pretty low for anybody. Hopefully, as you said, things remain strictly on anti-Thatcherism and not some chirade in which her family and relatives are subject to pointless hate on the day of her funeral.

[Kizzy]

Yeah it's no different to the Westboro Baptist Church picketing a funeral really. I can't see how you can justify it.

Her death has truly brought out the worst in people. Like I've always said, you can tell more about a person on how they treat their inferiors and their enemies than how they treat their equals.

The only thing the behavior of people recently tells me is that people are as bad as the people they hate and that they haven't learned from the past.

How, if you are protesting against unfair practices how can you doing that be class as immoral?

You can't comment on this yet as the funeral has not yet happened...
look like inbred yobs?.... by having a reasoned and educated perception of political ideology and how it has shaped the sociological landscape since the 1980's?...

How do you feel Thatcher treated those she felt were her inferiors?..

[arista]

I think the only thing it shows is that there's a lot of bitter, pitiful and rather pathetic people around. The protest will achieve nothing but hurt an already grieving family, There's no honour in it at all, it's just incredibly petty and cruel.


Yes True

[the truth]

The thing is, that just isn't her doing. Protest against the government for it, fine, but no doubt she's going to get even more criticism for something which she had no involvement in, on the day of her funeral which is just pointless. And I know that, as a political figure, you are open to all types of criticism, even from beyond the grave, but specifically choosing to round up others on the day of her funeral is pretty low for anybody. Hopefully, as you said, things remain strictly on anti-Thatcherism and not some chirade in which her family and relatives are subject to pointless hate on the day of her funeral.

if they want peace then the arms dealer and the politcally incorrect carol should pay for it themselves, end of chat. instead the whole farce is being paid for by the society that thatcher said didnt even exist....meanwhile thousands freeze in poverty. this whole thing is a national disgrace.

[Tom4784]

How, if you are protesting against unfair practices how can you doing that be class as immoral?

You can't comment on this yet as the funeral has not yet happened...
look like inbred yobs?.... by having a reasoned and educated perception of political ideology and how it has shaped the sociological landscape since the 1980's?...

How do you feel Thatcher treated those she felt were her inferiors?..

Protesting funerals is low no matter the circumstances. She didn't even want a State Funeral so why make her relatives suffer on an already difficult day for something that the Government decided? It's just petty.

How Thatcher treated anyone is irrelevant to the point I'm making. If someone treats you bad and you choose to treat them the same way when the situation is reversed you become just as bad as them, worse in fact. I disliked her politics but there is nothing to be gained from celebrating her death, it's just a waste of time and energy.

[the truth]

Protesting funerals is low no matter the circumstances. She didn't even want a State Funeral so why make her relatives suffer on an already difficult day for something that the Government decided? It's just petty.

How Thatcher treated anyone is irrelevant to the point I'm making. If someone treats you bad and you choose to treat them the same way when the situation is reversed you become just as bad as them, worse in fact. I disliked her politics but there is nothing to be gained from celebrating her death, it's just a waste of time and energy.

I agree up to a point. no ecuse for abuse or rudeness etc however i think people can both voice their opinions in a respectful way without having to be totally silenced by the peer pressure and the ruling classes. something smart like the coffins of miners perhaps.

[Brother Leon]

Bringing you tomorrow's front pages before everyone else..Brother Leon.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BHvWSfwCIAESzi4.jpg

[Jake.]

Yes, very anti-policy looking poster there...

[Tom4784]

I agree up to a point. no ecuse for abuse or rudeness etc however i think people can both voice their opinions in a respectful way without having to be totally silenced by the peer pressure and the ruling classes. something smart like the coffins of miners perhaps.

I just don't see the point in protesting on the same day, it'll obviously achieve nothing, I actually agree that a big funeral is a waste of money when Thatcher didn't want a big event and I'd support a protest that happened a few days before or something since it would have a (very slight chance) of affecting something. Protesting the funeral on the day it happens will achieve nothing and is just cruel.

[joeysteele]

Personally I am not comfortable with demonstrations on the day of the funeral where the funeral is taking place.
However,I defend the right for people to speak out and display their grievances this way either because of the Thatcher legacy and/or the obscene act of using taxpayers money for any part of this funeral.

It is said, by demonstrating it would cause more hurt to a grieving family who should be able to mourn their loved one on the day free from further problems being thrust at them.
Fine, they could have had that, with the same funeral that her Husband Dennis had.
Much lower key, respectively dignified and not a pence of taxpayers money involved.

This funeral has it seems to me, near been hijacked and has grown into a total farce and also a show of strength against the people who in fact Margaret Thatcher maybe did see as inferior.
A far too pomp ridden occasion rather than a respectful funeral with even celebrities being invited, not just going.
This funeral should have been far lower key than this, there could have been special services later for those who wished for more and more to the point were willing to finance it from their own means.

What is happening here is a large section of society, who were crushed likely in all truth by Margaret Thatcher's policies are now having their noses rubbed in that.
No wonder some are so incensed that usual respect has gone out the window.
Respect is something that has to be earned, to many in the UK Margaret Thatcher did not earn it, this funeral,the way it has been planned by David Cameron, the Govt and all others involved, is also an example of not earning respect.
Sensitivity should have been the order of the day for this funeral of Margaret Thatcher, there is none of that coming from its planners,none whatsoever.

I have nothing against her,I wasn't even born when she was PM, my family were largely supporters of her but near all are already sick to death already of this gushing of how wonderful she was and the planning of any of this funeral with any public funding.
That fact happening is only going to increase tensions not relieve them.

[Kizzy]

Protesting funerals is low no matter the circumstances. She didn't even want a State Funeral so why make her relatives suffer on an already difficult day for something that the Government decided? It's just petty.

How Thatcher treated anyone is irrelevant to the point I'm making. If someone treats you bad and you choose to treat them the same way when the situation is reversed you become just as bad as them, worse in fact. I disliked her politics but there is nothing to be gained from celebrating her death, it's just a waste of time and energy.

Like I said her funeral is not until next week, how can you say that her behaviour towards the public is not relevant?...
Everyone has the right to express their opinion, freedom of speech is a right not a privilege.

[Tom4784]

Like I said her funeral is not until next week, how can you say that her behaviour towards the public is not relevant?...
Everyone has the right to express their opinion, freedom of speech is a right not a privilege.

I've not said a word against Free Speech? You should try reading my posts before trying to shove words down my throat.

[Tom4784]

Personally I am not comfortable with demonstrations on the day of the funeral where the funeral is taking place.
However,I defend the right for people to speak out and display their grievances this way either because of the Thatcher legacy and/or the obscene act of using taxpayers money for any part of this funeral.

It is said, by demonstrating it would cause more hurt to a grieving family who should be able to mourn their loved one on the day free from further problems being thrust at them.
Fine, they could have had that, with the same funeral that her Husband Dennis had.
Much lower key, respectively dignified and not a pence of taxpayers money involved.

This funeral has it seems to me, near been hijacked and has grown into a total farce and also a show of strength against the people who in fact Margaret Thatcher maybe did see as inferior.
A far too pomp ridden occasion rather than a respectful funeral with even celebrities being invited, not just going.
This funeral should have been far lower key than this, there could have been special services later for those who wished for more and more to the point were willing to finance it from their own means.

What is happening here is a large section of society, who were crushed likely in all truth by Margaret Thatcher's policies are now having their noses rubbed in that.
No wonder some are so incensed that usual respect has gone out the window.
Respect is something that has to be earned, to many in the UK Margaret Thatcher did not earn it, this funeral,the way it has been planned by David Cameron, the Govt and all others involved, is also an example of not earning respect.
Sensitivity should have been the order of the day for this funeral of Margaret Thacher, there is none of that coming from its planners,none whatsoever.

I have nothing against her,I wasn't even born when she was PM, my family were largely supporters of her but near all are already sick to death already of this gushing of how wonderful she was and the planning of any of this funeral with any public funding.
That fact happening is only going to increase tensions not relieve them.

I'm not saying that it shouldn't happen, just like the Westboro Baptist Church, they're entitled to protest but I'm also entitled to voice that I think the whole thing is pointless and petty.

[Kizzy]

I've not said a word against Free Speech? You should try reading my posts before trying to shove words down my throat.

I didn't say you had... Examining your posts I feel you have exhibited a pretty judgmental attitude to be fair, so you see I have read your posts fully dezzy I just don't happen to agree with them.

[Kizzy]

I'm not saying that it shouldn't happen, just like the Westboro Baptist Church, they're entitled to protest but I'm also entitled to voice that I think the whole thing is pointless and petty.

You insist on using this 'church' as a reference, yet as it stands there is nothing to link the two situations.
Maybe it was due to James mentioning this earlier in the week?... Who knows.
Your opinion is that it is pointless and petty you have said this numerous times, millions across the UK feel differently it seems.

[Tom4784]

You insist on using this 'church' as a reference, yet as it stands there is nothing to link the two situations.
Maybe it was due to James mentioning this earlier in the week?... Who knows.
Your opinion is that it is pointless and petty you have said this numerous times, millions across the UK feel differently it seems.

You must be willfully ignorant if you can't see the comparison I'm making. The point is in both cases they are protesting a funeral but people are completely against the church doing it but are all for the Thatcher protest despite the fact that they are basically the same thing. It's all very hypocritical.

I don't let the majority shape my opinion like some who just seem to spout the popular opinion and base their argument around it...

[arista]

"I have nothing against her,I wasn't even born when she was PM, my family were largely supporters of her"

They are Most Wise
Joey

[Kizzy]

You must be willfully ignorant if you can't see the comparison I'm making. The point is in both cases they are protesting a funeral but people are completely against the church doing it but are all for the Thatcher protest despite the fact that they are basically the same thing. It's all very hypocritical.

I don't let the majority shape my opinion like some who just seem to spout the popular opinion and base their argument around it...

I could say the same to you for being blind to the thoughts and feelings of the millions that feel incensed enough to take to the streets to air their feelings.

You have totally misunderstood, westboro 'church' do not protest about funerals... they protest at funerals.

Good for you, I don't either I have based my views on education and research, those who assume the moral high-ground in my opinion are not in any way entitled to it.

[joeysteele]

"I have nothing against her,I wasn't even born when she was PM, my family were largely supporters of her"

They are Most Wise
Joey

I cannot deny that, they did support her and most of them proudly,believing she had a vital role to play in Union reform and that she did do that fully.
However even My Parents now are furious at any public funding in any way for her funeral and are fed up of all this sugary sweet stuff being rammed down our throats by David Cameron and co since Monday.

[Ammi]

..I don’t understand the point of protesting on the day of the funeral..is the point to show Margaret Thatcher what people thought of her policies and time in power..that they or their families suffered...she won’t hear that point no matter how loud that it’s shouted..is the point that this public funeral shouldn’t be taking place...that decision was made by others, not her...is the point that people feel her legacy lives on...then that isn’t going to change because the past can’t be undone...is the point that people feel the present government are making mistakes...then a funeral isn’t the place to do it...this is pointless as the person who it is aimed at is oblivious to it and it changes nothing...

..but whatever the point, to try to prove it at someone’s funeral when a family is grieving is extremely distasteful and shows no compassion at all except to make a very sad day for her family, much worse than it needed to be...and it doesn’t matter if the public think her family ‘can take it’...that still doesn’t justify the actions of doing it....and when you ‘put a point across’ in this way then that whole point is lost by the wrong of your own actions...

..there is a time and there is a place and heartlessly disregarding grief is neither of those things....

..and yes, there are many voices in this protest but there are equally many other silent ones who find it extremely distasteful and inappropriate and only hurting people who are innocent at a time when their emotions are already touched by grief.... I’m sure the family are now resigned that this protest will go ahead and are prepared for it as much as they can be..but that will never justify the people who are taking part in it or excuse them because it’s a completely callous action...and I personally fail to see any sense of satisfaction gained by that sort of cruelty.....

..you know, there’s a saying that I keep trying to remember because it’s so applicable here...but what it basically says is that we can’t make ourselves feel something that we don’t feel..(and in this case, it’s anger over the funeral and costs..?...and of course, a lack of regret that she’s dead...)...but we can make ourselves do the right thing in spite of our feelings ..and allowing a family to grieve is the right thing....

[Jake.]

..I don’t understand the point of protesting on the day of the funeral..is the point to show Margaret Thatcher what people thought of her policies and time in power..that they or their families suffered...she won’t hear that point no matter how loud that it’s shouted..is the point that this public funeral shouldn’t be taking place...that decision was made by others, not her...is the point that people feel her legacy lives on...then that isn’t going to change because the past can’t be undone...is the point that people feel the present government are making mistakes...then a funeral isn’t the place to do it...this is pointless as the person who it is aimed at is oblivious to it and it changes nothing...

..but whatever the point, to try to prove it at someone’s funeral when a family is grieving is extremely distasteful and shows no compassion at all except to make a very sad day for her family, much worse than it needed to be...and it doesn’t matter if the public think her family ‘can take it’...that still doesn’t justify the actions of doing it....and when you ‘put a point across’ in this way then that whole point is lost by the wrong of your own actions...

..there is a time and there is a place and heartlessly disregarding grief is neither of those things....

:love:

[Kizzy]

..I don’t understand the point of protesting on the day of the funeral..is the point to show Margaret Thatcher what people thought of her policies and time in power..that they or their families suffered...she won’t hear that point no matter how loud that it’s shouted..is the point that this public funeral shouldn’t be taking place...that decision was made by others, not her...is the point that people feel her legacy lives on...then that isn’t going to change because the past can’t be undone...is the point that people feel the present government are making mistakes...then a funeral isn’t the place to do it...this is pointless as the person who it is aimed at is oblivious to it and it changes nothing...

..but whatever the point, to try to prove it at someone’s funeral when a family is grieving is extremely distasteful and shows no compassion at all except to make a very sad day for her family, much worse than it needed to be...and it doesn’t matter if the public think her family ‘can take it’...that still doesn’t justify the actions of doing it....and when you ‘put a point across’ in this way then that whole point is lost by the wrong of your own actions...

..there is a time and there is a place and heartlessly disregarding grief is neither of those things....

..and yes, there are many voices in this protest but there are equally many other silent ones who find it extremely distasteful and inappropriate and only hurting people who are innocent at a time when their emotions are already touched by grief.... I’m sure the family are now resigned that this protest will go ahead and are prepared for it as much as they can be..but that will never justify the people who are taking part in it or excuse them because it’s a completely callous action...and I personally fail to see any sense of satisfaction gained by that sort of cruelty.....

..you know, there’s a saying that I keep trying to remember because it’s so applicable here...but what it basically says is that we can’t make ourselves feel something that we don’t feel..(and in this case, it’s anger over the funeral and costs..?...and of course, a lack of regret that she’s dead...)...but we can make ourselves do the right thing in spite of our feelings ..and allowing a family to grieve is the right thing....

Is the saying ' As ye so so shall ye reap?'..

[joeysteele]

I agree with your post Ammi as I usually do,you always think things through I know that
However just taking the other side,while it is true she won't hear the protests and all demos taking place because she is no longer with us.
By the same token though, she will also not hear all the sugary near canonisation praises of her either but people are having to hear all those voices.
In fact they have been since Monday when she sadly died. Both in what they buy and what they are watching.
For me it goes both ways, right or wrong.

I am just really angry at any public funding given to this over the top funeral, when all are being told to tighten their belts.
It is unnecessary and unacceptable to me and I also actually think Margaret Thatcher would likely be saying that too.

[Jake.]

Is the saying ' As ye so so shall ye reap?'..

But it isn't her who will be suffering on the day of her funeral, is it?...

[Kizzy]

But it isn't her who will be suffering on the day of her funeral, is it?...

Jake, to some this is not lovely wobbly old nana, this is an evil tyrant, an arms dealer, a liar and a murderer...
You cannot wave a wand and wipe out 30+ yrs of political and social history.
This woman put the UK in a choke-hold, and even in death she is still squeezing.

[joeysteele]

I'm not saying that it shouldn't happen, just like the Westboro Baptist Church, they're entitled to protest but I'm also entitled to voice that I think the whole thing is pointless and petty.

No disagreement from me as to that Dezzy at all, in fact I would strongly defend your right to hold and voice that view.

[Jake.]

Jake, to some this is not lovely wobbly old nana, this is an evil tyrant, an arms dealer, a liar and a murderer...
You cannot wave a wand and wipe out 30+ yrs of political and social history.
This woman put the UK in a choke-hold, and even in death she is still squeezing.

But as I said, no amount of gate-crashing her funeral is going to take that away, and it isn't going to affect her in the slightest... It's going to affect thise who are trying to mourne their mother/nan/sister etc

[Redway]

I fear you may be wasting your well-informed breath, Jake.

[Kizzy]

But as I said, no amount of gate-crashing her funeral is going to take that away, and it isn't going to affect her in the slightest... It's going to affect thise who are trying to mourne their mother/nan/sister etc

That is unfortunate, but unavoidable.
There will be no national outpouring of grief, only a collective sigh of relief.

[joeysteele]

On a lighter note, I am very sure myself that Margaret Thatcher would be engrossed in this thread.
She would near certainly love the division,the controversy and the range of views.

[Jake.]

I fear you may be wasting your well-informed breath, Jake.

Mad, I was reading another thread this morning and you said that exact same thing to me before :laugh:

[Jake.]

That is unfortunate, but unavoidable.
There will be no national outpouring of grief, only a collective sigh of relief.

It really is unavoidable, all these people need to do is protest and rally against her on another day

[Redway]

Mad, I was reading another thread this morning and you said that exact same thing to me before :laugh:

I just copy and paste generic replies I've made before if it's relevant to the thread. :p

[Jake.]

I just copy and paste generic replies I've made before if it's relevant to the thread. :p

Ah I see :p haha

[Redway]

Ah I see :p haha

Meant to edit that post actually, is it the CBB10 ratings thread you're on about? :laugh:

[Jake.]

Meant to edit that post actually, is it the CBB10 ratings thread you're on about? :laugh:

That's the one :laugh:

[Kizzy]

On a lighter note, I am very sure myself that Margaret Thatcher would be engrossed in this thread.
She would near certainly love the division,the controversy and the range of views.

She loved dividing things, the rich and the poor, the north and the south..... :joker:

[AnnieK]

Abraham Lincoln has it right with “You can please some of the people some of the time all of the people some of the time some of the people all of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time.”

This debate rages on on this forum and many others, nothing will be solved and I don't think any views will be changed. I personally feel the demonstrations at a funeral distasteful and I will be sickened if people try to violently disrupt the procession or ceremony but people are entitled to voice their feelings but I pray it is peaceful. The eyes of the world will be watching and I would hate people who don't know the history of the strength of feeling judge the citizens of the UK by what happens on Wednesday (obviously if anything, we will not know until then what the situation will be)

[MTVN]

That is unfortunate, but unavoidable.
There will be no national outpouring of grief, only a collective sigh of relief.

I wouldn't presume to speak for the nation, just as many admired Thatcher as despised her

[Cherie]

What I can't get my head around, would you if your parent stipulated they wanted a certain type of funeral dismiss their wishes and go ahead and do something entirely different. Are Mark and Carol Thatcher really that weak minded that they cave in to the demands of the current Tory party. Tory Dave said when asked why they were having this type of funeral "what would other countries think of us if we didn't honour MT in this way" when did Dave start worrying about the neighbours and what they thought..:joker:

[Kizzy]

Abraham Lincoln has it right with “You can please some of the people some of the time all of the people some of the time some of the people all of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time.”

This debate rages on on this forum and many others, nothing will be solved and I don't think any views will be changed. I personally feel the demonstrations at a funeral distasteful and I will be sickened if people try to violently disrupt the procession or ceremony but people are entitled to voice their feelings but I pray it is peaceful. The eyes of the world will be watching and I would hate people who don't know the history of the strength of feeling judge the citizens of the UK by what happens on Wednesday (obviously if anything, we will not know until then what the situation will be)

I posted this the other day, The quote is you can fool not please though annie :)
I agree with your sentiments, it will be too easy for those who seek to detract from the issue to point bony fingers of 'faux morality'.

[Kizzy]

I wouldn't presume to speak for the nation, just as many admired Thatcher as despised her

Where is the evidence to support this theory?... :)

[AnnieK]

I posted this the other day, The quote is you can fool not please though annie :)
I agree with your sentiments, it will be too easy for those who seek to detract from the issue to point bony fingers of 'faux morality'.

God damn it, I always get things wrong. I should probably pipe down again

[Jake.]

Where is the evidence to support this theory?... :)

You don't really need evidence, it's common knowledge that she was going to have supporters along with the people who despised her

[arista]

7PM tonight Ch4HD and Ch4

Margaret: Death of a Revolutionary

[Martin Durkin presents his radical "thesis"
that Margaret Thatcher was a working class
revolutionary, and that she believed
capitalism was in the interests of ordinary people,
not the toffs]

[Kizzy]

God damn it, I always get things wrong. I should probably pipe down again

Haha, no I had to look, lot's of people use please instead of fool :)
I agree with you whatever is said or done on Wednesday will be misconstrued as some heartless anarchic act so it would be counterproductive unfortunately.
How about Tuesday?... She could be rolled past the discarded placards of miners... just like old times?

[Kizzy]

7PM tonight Ch4HD and Ch4

Margaret: Death of a Revolutionary

[Martin Durkin presents his radical "thesis"
that Margaret Thatcher was a working class
revolutionary, and that she believed
capitalism was in the interests of ordinary people,
not the toffs]

She was delusional so there is every reason to believe she thought this to be true...

[joeysteele]

What I can't get my head around, would you if your parent stipulated they wanted a certain type of funeral dismiss their wishes and go ahead and do something entirely different. Are Mark and Carol Thatcher really that weak minded that they cave in to the demands of the current Tory party. Tory Dave said when asked why they were having this type of funeral "what would other countries think of us if we didn't honour MT in this way" when did Dave start worrying about the neighbours and what they thought..:joker:

I can speak for myself and certainly my Brothers too that our Parents wishes will be done to the letter of what they said as to their funerals.
Nothing and no one will or could persuade us otherwise,I myself would actually see that as dishonouring our Parents wishes were we to.
Wishes as to a funeral, and so in fact, last wishes should be that from the person who made them, no matter who they are or what they were in life.

You are right, that is what is wrong also with this now almost celebrity show of who's who coming on Wednesday with the use too of some public funding.
I find all that highly distasteful and also yes,disrespectful even to Margaret Thatchers own wishes.

[arista]

She was delusional so there is every reason to believe she thought this to be true...



This is Martin Durkin
saying it tonight 7PM CH4

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Durkin_%28television_director%29

And Durkin
was a Communist.

[Redway]

Where is the evidence to support this theory?... :)

It's not a scientific article.

[Ninastar]

Where is the evidence to support this theory?... :)

she never lost an election? :)

[Kizzy]

she never lost an election? :)

You can fool some people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time... :devil:

[Redway]

You can fool some people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time... :devil:

Three times running? She wasn't a great PM but she wasn't the worst either...she had high and low points. At least she had her own mind.

[Brother Leon]

she never lost an election? :)

Was still ousted from power and had second worst approval rating of any post-war Prime Minister though..

[Redway]

Was still ousted from power and had second worst approval rating of any post-war Prime Minister though..

That was bound to happen at some point anyway.

[Kizzy]

Three times running? She wasn't a great PM but she wasn't the worst either...she had high and low points. At least she had her own mind.

She is one of the worst, she did have her own mind , she did what she regardless of whether it was in the best interests of the country... or not.

[Redway]

She is one of the worst, she did have her own mind , she did what she regardless of whether it was in the best interests of the country... or not.

That's all subjective; if you think she ran this country into the ground, fine. But I disagree (and there are plenty who'd back me up on that). You have to allow for different tastes.

[Kizzy]

That's all subjective; if you think she ran this country into the ground, fine. But I disagree (and there are plenty who'd back me up on that). You have to allow for different tastes.

It is, I could find much more evidence to prove my perspective but...Yep.

[Me. I Am Salman]

she never lost an election? :)

by a share of the vote below the majority in a system that's low in turnout anyway

[Redway]

It is, I could find much more evidence to prove my perspective but...Yep.

Well if the likes of Livia/Shaun can think otherwise, I very much doubt that...

[Kizzy]

Well if the likes of Livia/Shaun can think otherwise, I very much doubt that...

:conf: what have livia and shaun to do with this?

[Redway]

:conf: what have livia and shaun to do with this?

I value their points of view a lot and if they don't think she was such a bad PM then I'd much rather take that side. That would mean that you can't prove she was anything and it really is just a matter of opinion.

[Ninastar]

by a share of the vote below the majority in a system that's low in turnout anyway

Still won every single one.

[Kizzy]

I value their points of view a lot and if they don't think she was such a bad PM then I'd much rather take that side. That would mean that you can't prove she was anything and it really is just a matter of opinion.

Oh, if all you're interested in is opinion that's fine, I prefer facts personally.

[Redway]

I find it a tad rich coming from you that for once you're actually in favour of facts rather than opinion.

[Me. I Am Salman]

Still won every single one.

Yes but it doesn't mean she was loved by the nation when she, like every other prime minister, was voted in by under 30% of it

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/13/article-0-1944DA02000005DC-227_634x448.jpg
Preparations are underway near
St Paul's Cathedral ahead of the
funeral of Margaret Thatcher on Wednesday

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/13/article-0-19426D33000005DC-288_634x459.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/13/article-0-1944D9D9000005DC-424_634x457.jpg


Enough to keep the Nutters at bay.

[Kizzy]

I find it a tad rich coming from you that for once you're actually in favour of facts rather than opinion.

Do you, why's that then?

[Kizzy]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/13/article-0-1944DA02000005DC-227_634x448.jpg
Preparations are underway near
St Paul's Cathedral ahead of the
funeral of Margaret Thatcher on Wednesday

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/13/article-0-19426D33000005DC-288_634x459.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/13/article-0-1944D9D9000005DC-424_634x457.jpg


Enough to keep the Nutters at bay.

But Boris and Osborne are invited surely? ;)

[Josy]

I value their points of view a lot and if they don't think she was such a bad PM then I'd much rather take that side. That would mean that you can't prove she was anything and it really is just a matter of opinion.

Would you not rather do some research for yourself and form your own opinions on the subject? you have been posting an awful lot for someone who judging by your post's doesnt know too much her or her time as PM.

[Redway]

Would you not rather do some research for yourself and form your own opinions on the subject? you have been posting an awful lot for someone who judging by your post's doesnt know too much her or her time as PM.

Actually I have researched the issue a lot and still have my views. I was just using that post to support them somewhat and I've said countless times that I wasn't even a fan of her policies.

That bit was to kizzy, who believes her opinions are fact.

[Apple202]

#teamMADGE

[Josy]

Actually I have researched the issue a lot and still have my views. I was just using that post to support them somewhat and I've said countless times that I wasn't even a fan of her policies.

Why not just say you had researched it a lot then rather than post members names saying that they think something so you would rather take that side...seems a strange thing to do to me instead of posting your own views?

[Marsh.]

I value their points of view a lot and if they don't think she was such a bad PM then I'd much rather take that side. That would mean that you can't prove she was anything and it really is just a matter of opinion.

Actually I have researched the issue a lot and still have my views. I was just using that post to support them somewhat and I've said countless times that I wasn't even a fan of her policies.

That bit was to kizzy, who believes her opinions are fact.

You said you'd rather support Thatcher because of Shaun and Livia's opinion on the matter because you value their opinion?

Got to disagree about kizzy. I don't see how she's presenting her opinion as fact. :conf: