Woolwich murder- Police suspecting terrorist attack

[thesheriff443]

It definitely looks like it was an attempted suicide by cops.

You see the other videos of him just hanging around, chatting and spewing his hate speech, then when the cops show up he charges at them. You can tell he wanted them to kill him.

Too cowardly to take his own life, he wanted to make the cops do it. Bad luck buddy! you're still alive, and you'll have to face real justice now.

I don't think it is real justice that he is alive, its not like he will show remorse for his actions, he will be given a free room and lodgings and of coarse a copy of the coran all at our expence in the sense of an eye for an eye they should have their heads chopped off with a blunt sword!

[bbfan1991]

Just seen Lee Rigby's family statement. I cannot imagine the heartbreak and pain they are feeling right now:(.

[lostalex]

I don't think it is real justice that he is alive, its not like he will show remorse for his actions, he will be given a free room and lodgings and of coarse a copy of the coran all at our expence in the sense of an eye for an eye they should have their heads chopped off with a blunt sword!

It will still be more justice than if he died though. Death would be too easy for this evil bastard.

He might not have it as bad as guantanamo, but he'll still at least have to face a court and face the family of his victim. He owes them that much.

Most terrorists are too cowardly to face any kind of justice, that's why most of them make sure they die in the attack. At least these assholes will have to face some consequences, even if the British justice system is too soft. anything is better than nothing.

[thesheriff443]

It will still be more justice than if he died though. Death would be too easy for this evil bastard.

He might not have it as bad as guantanamo, but he'll still at least have to face a court and face the family of his victim. He owes them that much.

Most terrorists are too cowardly to face any kind of justice, that's why most of them make sure they die in the attack. At least these assholes will have to face some consequences, even if the British justice system is too soft. anything is better than nothing.

when these two men hacked a man to death with his warm blood still on their hands they then went on to preach to camera's, these men think with all there being that they have done good, they will not show an ounce of remorse or emotion for this sickening crime.

they have taken a life and destroyed many more with their actions. there is no place in this world for murderers.

[lostalex]

I certainly agree with you that if ever there is a time for the death penalty this would be it.

ZERO question of guilt.

ZERO question of motive.

Absolutely these animals deserve death.

[thesheriff443]

I certainly agree with you that if ever there is a time for the death penalty this would be it.

ZERO question of guilt.

ZERO question of motive.

Absolutely these animals deserve death.

very true, premeditated murder should come with the death sentence.

[Brother Leon]

If they were teaching your children what they teach in those muslim schools, you'd be outraged. You have a double standard.

Funny that. Would wager the Education my Cousin in Egypt has received is 10x the one we receive. Dunno where you get the impression they aren't taught about 9/11 or Holloucaust either....You should try go to these countries instead of preaching crap you hear on CNN.

[GiRTh]

Funny that. Would wager the Education my Cousin in Egypt has received is 10x the one we receive. Dunno where you get the impression they aren't taught about 9/11 or Holloucaust either....You should try go to these countries instead of preaching crap you hear on CNN.Fox News not CNN. :joker:

[lostalex]

Funny that. Would wager the Education my Cousin in Egypt has received is 10x the one we receive. Dunno where you get the impression they aren't taught about 9/11 or Holloucaust either....You should try go to these countries instead of preaching crap you hear on CNN.

You are just being silly if you don't know about the absolutely appalling education in the arab world. The illiteracy rates, especially among girls, is absolutely disgusting.

I really don't know why you are trying to justify it.

[Brother Leon]

You are just being silly if you don't know about the absolutely appalling education in the arab world. The illiteracy rates, especially among girls, is absolutely disgusting.

I really don't know why you are trying to justify it.

Because....Shock horror, I've been to 3 arab Countries and From experience I know you are talking crap. Keep preaching your hate though on your Computer from the other side of the world....

[lostalex]

Because....Shock horror, I've been to 3 arab Countries and From experience I know you are talking crap. Keep preaching your hate though on your Computer from the other side of the world....

My hate? remind me again who i'm being hateful against? remind me again who i've ever advocated to have less rights than me (unlike muslims who are blatantly and unapologetically homophobic) tell me who i've hated and what rights i've said should be taken away from them?

you are talking SHEEET.

[Omah]

http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0014/001462/146282e.pdf

Illiteracy in the Arab world
Hassan R. Hammoud 2005

Improvement of Female Literacy. Female literacy rates 15 and over (Table 1) in the Arab world today range from 24 (Iraq) to 85.9 percent (Jordan). Between 1990 and 2000- 2004, six Arab countries ranked above the world average of 76.5%. Bahrain raised it female literacy rate from 74.6% to 84.2%, Jordan from 72.1% to 85.9%, Kuwait from 72.6% to 81%, Lebanon from 73.1% to 82%, Qatar from 76% to 82.3%, and the United Arab Emirates from 70% to 80.7%.

However, despite such a great strides in female literacy in these countries, high rates of illiteracy among women persists in the majority of the Arab countries, indeed women today account for two thirds of the region’s illiterates and according to the Arab Human Development Report 2002, p.52, this rate is not expected to disappear “not until 2040”. Several factors seem to account for such a deficit, chief among them are the low base in primary enrollment from which such countries started, the slow down in the rate of increase in enrollment during the 1990s compared with the 1980s, with an apparent bias against female (AHDR 2002, p.52), the decline in public expenditure on education since 1995 (AHDR 2003, p.52), in addition to “a decline in political commitment or inappropriate approaches to rectifying the situation”.

http://www.emirates247.com/news/region/arab-world-needs-to-rise-to-the-literacy-challenge-2010-07-28-1.272076

Arab World needs to rise to the literacy challenge

Illiteracy rate in the Arab World is around 35.6% compared with a global rate of 18%

By Nadim Kawach
Published Wednesday, July 28, 2010

Kuwait has the lowest female illiteracy rate in the Arab World.

Arab nations have more than 70 million illiterate people and nearly two thirds of them are concentrated in five regional countries, according to the Arab League.

The number means the illiteracy rate in the 21-nation Arab League is currently estimated at 35.6 per cent, nearly double the global rate, said the Arab League Educational, Cultural and Scientific Organisation (Alesco).

The problem is underscored in Egypt, Yemen, Sudan, Morocco and Algeria, which have about 48 million illiterates, nearly 68 per cent of the total.

:idc:

[lostalex]

http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0014/001462/146282e.pdf



:idc:

oh Omah, you are going to make him lazy. I much prefer to make them do their own homework.

If you do their homework for them then they'll never learn for themselves.

[Omah]

oh Omah, you are going to make him lazy. I much prefer to make them do their own homework.

If you do their homework for them then they'll never learn for themselves.

I just wondered who was right (I suspected you were) so just did a quick search out of interest.

;)

[Brother Leon]

The three Arab countries I have been to all have 90%+ Literacy rates or just off. So it's still wrong to assume Education in all Arab countries is poor....try again.


Oh and Over two-thirds of the world's 793 million illiterate adults are found in only eight countries (Bangladesh, China, Egypt, Ethiopia, India, Indonesia, Nigeria, and Pakistan).....

One country there could be considered Arabic....Oh statistics. Funny thing.

[Omah]

The three Arab countries I have been to all have 90%+ Literacy rates. So it's still wrong to assume Education in all Arab countries is poor....try again.


Oh and Over two-thirds of the world's 793 million illiterate adults are found in only eight countries (Bangladesh, China, Egypt, Ethiopia, India, Indonesia, Nigeria, and Pakistan).....

One country there could be considered Arabic....Oh statistics. Funny thing.

Your source ..... :conf:

[Omah]

The three Arab countries I have been to all have 90%+ Literacy rates or just off..

Which were they ..... :conf:

Would wager the Education my Cousin in Egypt has received is 10x the one we receive.

Details please ..... :wink:

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/24/article-2330286-19F14C94000005DC-448_634x441.jpg
Michael Adebowale, 22

He was on the Local High Street at weekends
not far from the Muder of Lee Rigby
Preaching to passers by and giving them leaflets

So he was on a Gods mission
as a Extreme Muslim.


Ref: Ch5NewsHD Live

[arista]

Woolwich Soldier Murder: Three More Arrests

"Three men have been arrested on suspicion of conspiracy
to murder the British soldier who was hacked
to death in Woolwich.
Two men aged 24 and 28 were arrested at a
residential address in London while a 21-year-old
man was arrested in the street, Scotland Yard police
headquarters said in a statement.
Taser electric stun guns were used on
the 28-year-old and the 21-year-old."

http://news.sky.com/story/1095577/woolwich-soldier-murder-three-more-arrests

[arista]

['I will gag the hate clerics': Cameron to launch new
terror task force to bring an end to religious extremism]

I wish you good luck PM

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2330945/David-Cameron-launch-new-terror-task-force-stamp-religious-extremism.html#ixzz2UOniNO1c


For Kizzy
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/may/26/theresa-may-measures-combat-terrorism

[joeysteele]

I hope he does arista and I hope he really whips into action his useless Home Secretary too.

I do though seriously wish him luck with that and in particular I also hope some moves will be taking as to stopping the media also giving them the vile publicity they give them for their comments too.

[Jesus.]

Clamping down on extremists is unquantifiable, it's like trying to ban silliness.

We need to move away from sound bytes such as "war on terror" and devise a strategy that actually confronts the issues that the extremists care about, Rather than the simplistic "we're good, you're bad" bollocks we will continue to see.

[arista]

Clamping down on extremists is unquantifiable, it's like trying to ban silliness.

We need to move away from sound bytes such as "war on terror" and devise a strategy that actually confronts the issues that the extremists care about, Rather than the simplistic "we're good, you're bad" bollocks we will continue to see.


We can not stay as we are.

Its never simple - but these killers went to University and dropped out.



Its in the Koran - they take the words how they want them.

[Ninastar]

saw an interview of his wife and it broke my heart. i cannot even begin to imagine the terror and sadness they must feel right now

[Kizzy]

['I will gag the hate clerics': Cameron to launch new
terror task force to bring an end to religious extremism]

I wish you good luck PM

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2330945/David-Cameron-launch-new-terror-task-force-stamp-religious-extremism.html#ixzz2UOniNO1c


For Kizzy
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/may/26/theresa-may-measures-combat-terrorism

Thanks :)
What Theresa May says here is confusing,
''May said the government review of its anti-terror strategy needed to look "at the question of whether perhaps we need to have banning orders to ban organisations that don't meet the threshold for proscription".

May questioned why the BBC had allowed a radical cleric, Anjem Choudray, to appear on Newsnight last week. "I think Anjem Choudary has disgusting views and I think it is right that we look at how those views are being presented and I think there were many people who did indeed say what is the BBC doing interviewing Anjem Choudary?" she said.''

I was under the impression we had those laws already in place?
Inciting racial hatred?.. As well as those attached to the civil contingencies Act.

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/26/article-2331124-1A020A38000005DC-491_634x286.jpg
The PM is in Ibiza with his Nice Wife.
But still in charge and able to get back fast.



Thats better than that horrible
New Labour Brown bloke
wearing the wrong clothes
on a UK holiday (as if him being in the UK mattered)

[joeysteele]

Oh crumbs.just about anything Theresa May,even if it is worth listening to in part is generally confusing,the woman is totally useless.

I don't in any way begrudge the PM a break but I do think this one is ill timed, whether he can get back quickly or not.
It is a time for the elected Leader of the country to be here, at least until after the funeral of this poor young Soldier.

I will have to pass as to the description of the PMs wife as 'nice' though.

[arista]

Oh crumbs.just about anything Theresa May,even if it is worth listening to in part is generally confusing,the woman is totally useless.

I don't in any way begrudge the PM a break but I do think this one is ill timed, whether he can get back quickly or not.
It is a time for the elected Leader of the country to be here, at least until after the funeral of this poor young Soldier.

I will have to pass as to the description of the PMs wife as 'nice' though.



You Would

Those Evil Extreme Muslims killed that Soldier.

[joeysteele]

You Would

Those Evil Extreme Muslims killed that Soldier.

No one would or is arguing with that.
However with the situation as it is, the Soldiers family in a totally traumatic state, information coming out bit by bit, racial tensions increasing against the Muslim communities across the UK.

That's not the best time for the Prime Minister to leave the country for a 'holiday'.
If it was vitally important he returned when this happened only a few days ago then it is still,in my view, vital he is here now.If onlt to show respect and understanding to the family traumatised by this.

Even your paper 'The Sun' I noticed is getting at him for going, on its whole front page too I noticed as I went past the newstand this morning.

He not only looks out of touch, he is out of touch, Boris Johnson has been around more and said more too as to this than David Cameron.

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22673164

One of the suspects in the Woolwich murder case was arrested in Kenya in 2010, the Foreign Office has confirmed.

It said Michael Adebolajo was arrested there and it gave consular assistance "as normal" in the circumstances.

He was believed to have been preparing to fight with Somali militant group al-Shabab, a Kenyan government spokesman told the BBC, and was later deported.

The Kenyan government had previously denied that Mr Adebolajo had ever visited the country, but spokesman Muthui Kariuki said there had been some confusion as he was arrested under a different name.

Mr Adebolajo was arrested with five others and handed over to UK authorities when it emerged he was a British citizen, he added.

In video footage of his court appearance which emerged on Sunday, Mr Adebolajo is heard to say: "These people are mistreating us, we are innocent."

Oh yeah ..... :rolleyes:

[arista]

"He not only looks out of touch, he is out of touch, Boris Johnson has been around more and said more too as to this than David Cameron. "


Yes so Boris should it went on under his London Area.


I do not agree he is out of touch.


It was New Labour that set up all the muslim sections
they were Out of Touch.
Blair caused the London Attack on 2005.
It we are still stuck in this Mess for a few years more

[joeysteele]

"He not only looks out of touch, he is out of touch, Boris Johnson has been around more and said more too as to this than David Cameron. "


Yes so Boris should it went on under his London Area.


I do not agree he is out of touch.


It was New Labour that set up all the muslim sections
they were Out of Touch.
Blair caused the London Attack on 2005.
It we are still stuck in this Mess for a few years more

Yes but Boris is only Mayor of London,having said that though, he has shown more conviction and actual sensitivity to this tragic and horrendous murder.
This Soldier's family however live further North, David Cameron is the elected PM of the whole UK.

Look, he can have his holiday for me,if he thinks it is right to do so but I really think to a good number of people he will be seen as being rather insensitive, thoughtless and out of touch by doing so.
When Margaret Thatcher died of natural causes, he was straight back to the UK and acting like he was the funeral director/stage manager for the whole event.

This tragedy for me, needed to see a good bit of solidarity with the traumatised family and I cannot see how he will be seen as showing that by rushing off for a holiday that could have been re-arranged or done at a later less tense time.

I won't even respond much to the Labour part of your post,except to say I totally disagree with the tone of it.
As you rightly first said, the people who murdered this Soldier were the evil people who did it,not one of our political parties.
I personally think as PM, David Cameron should have stayed in the Country and taken this break later that's all.

[arista]

"When Margaret Thatcher died of natural causes, he was straight back to the UK"


You would Expect That , to be honest.

At this time we are on bank holiday
there is nothing for the PM to panic over

[Kizzy]

"When Margaret Thatcher died of natural causes, he was straight back to the UK"


You would Expect That , to be honest.

At this time we are on bank holiday
there is nothing for the PM to panic over

You would expect him to be more concerned at a woman in her 80's dying safe in her bed, than a young man getting his head chopped off by terrorists in broad daylight?
Actually yeah, I would expect that too as it goes to show that he does not give a stuff about our young men dying, here or abroad.

[joeysteele]

"When Margaret Thatcher died of natural causes, he was straight back to the UK"


You would Expect That , to be honest.

At this time we are on bank holiday
there is nothing for the PM to panic over

Far from it, I never saw any reason for him to leave duties and rush back at the time of Margaret Thatcher's death at all.
In fact I wholeheartedly echo Kizzy's post above.It speaks volumes about this PM and his attitude.

Terrorists don't take bank holidays,those who wish to cause more racial tensions won't care about bank holidays. he and you must hope there is nothing to panic about.
Maybe there isn't but as the leader of this Country he should be here to make sure he can respond instead of jetting off here, there and anywhere to not be in the Country.

If he doesn't like and/or cannot do the job of PM then go and let someone else who really cares take the duties of PM on.
Then David Cameron can move to Ibiza if he wishes.

I am sure the family of this murdered soldier would have loved the chance to be able to go off with their Soldier son and their other family on a holiday rather than have this nighmare they now have to live with.
Surely,for goodness sake, I am not in a minority that can see the insensitivity of the PM of the Nation for doing that at this time.

[arista]

You would expect him to be more concerned at a woman in her 80's dying safe in her bed, than a young man getting his head chopped off by terrorists in broad daylight?
Actually yeah, I would expect that too as it goes to show that he does not give a stuff about our young men dying, here or abroad.


Thats so wrong
He does not want any dead.
You keep making that up

[arista]

"If he doesn't like "


Joey get off your Horse.
He is a PM on holiday
its not a Crime.

[joeysteele]

"If he doesn't like "


Joey get off your Horse.
He is a PM on holiday
its not a Crime.

Arista,I am on no high horse, I think he is totally wrong to have gone on this break.
Just as you say he is right, I will stand my ground and condemn him for it, as for his nice wife, well I find it astonishing she didn't think it may look bad too.

I also think and apologies if I am wrong, that had this been Tony Blair or Gordon Brown or even Ed Miliband as PM at this time and they had gone off on a break now, I suspect you would have been likely throwing the book at them.

[Jack_]

Another excellent piece from Russell Brand on these events:

Woolwich

May 25th, 2013

The news cycle moves so quickly now that often we learn of an event through other people’s reaction to it. So it was when I arrived in Los Angeles to find my twitter feed contorted with posts of fear and confusion.

I caught up with the sad malice in Woolwich and felt compelled to tweet in casual defense of the Muslim community who were being haphazardly condemned by a few people on my time line. Perhaps a bit glibly (but what isn’t glib in 140 characters) I put “That bloke is a nut. A nut who happens to be Muslim. Blaming Muslims for this is like blaming Hitler’s moustache for the Holocaust”.

As an analogy it is imperfect but I was frightened by how negative and incendiary the mood felt and I rushed. I’m not proposing we sit around trying to summons up cute analogies when Lee Rigby has lost his life in horrific circumstances I simply feel that it is important that our reaction is measured. Something about the arbitrary brutality, the humdrum high-street setting, the cool rhetoric of the blood stained murderer evoke a powerful and inherently irrational response. When I first heard the word “beheading” I felt the atavistic grumble that we all feel. This is inhumane, taboo, not a result of passion but of malice, ritualistic. “If this is happening to guiltless men on our streets it could happen to me” I thought.

Then I watched the mobile phone clip. In spite of his dispassionate intoning the subject is not rational, of course he’s not rational, he’s just murdered a stranger in the street, he says, because of a book.

In my view that man is severely mentally ill and has found a convenient conduit for his insanity, in this case the Quran. In the case of another mentally ill and desperate man, Mark Chapman, it was A Catcher In The Rye. This was the nominated text for his rationalisation of the murder of John Lennon. I’ve read that book and I’ve read some of the Quran and nothing in either of them has compelled me to do violence. Perhaps this is because I lack the other necessary ingredients for extreme anti social behaviour; mental illness and isolation; either economic, social or both.

After my Hitler tweet I got involved in a bit of back and forth with a few people who said stuff like “the murderer said himself he did it for Islam”. Although I wouldn’t dismiss what he’s saying entirely I think he forfeited the right to have his views received unthinkingly when he murdered a stranger in the street. Someone else regarding my tweet said “Hitler’s moustache didn’t invent an ideology that sanctions murder”. That is thankfully true but Islam when practiced by normal people is not an advocacy for violence. “People all over the world are killing in the name of Islam” someone added. This is the most tricky bit to understand. What I think is that all over our country, all over our planet there are huge numbers of people who feel alienated and sometimes victimised by the privileged and the powerful, whether that’s rich people, powerful corporations or occupying nations. They feel that their interests are not being represented and, in many cases, know that their friends and families are being murdered by foreign soldiers. I suppose people like that may look to their indigenous theology for validation and to sanctify their, to some degree understandable, feelings of rage.

Comparable, I suppose to the way that homophobes feel a prejudicial pang in their tummies then look to the bible to see if there’s anything in there to justify it. There is, a piddling little bit in Leviticus. The main narrative thrust of The Bible though, like most spiritual texts, including the Quran is; be nice to each other because we’re all the same.

When some football fans smash up shops and beat each other up that isn’t because of football or football clubs. It’s because loads of white, working class men have been culturally neglected and their powerful tribal instincts end up getting sloshed about in riotous lager carnivals. I love football, I love West Ham, I’ve never been involved in football violence because I don’t feel that it’s my only access to social power. Also I’m not that hard and I’m worried I’d get my head kicked in down the New Den.

What the English Defence League and other angry, confused people are doing and advocating now, violence against mosques, Muslims, proliferation of hateful rhetoric is exactly what that poor, sick, murderous man, blood soaked on a peaceful street, was hoping for in his desperate, muddled mind.
The extremists on both sides have a shared agenda; cause division, distrust, anger and violence. Both sides have the same intention. We cannot allow them to distort our perception.

The establishment too is relatively happy when different groups of desperate people point the finger at each other because it prevents blame being correctly directed at them. Whenever we are looking for the solution to a problem we must identify who has power. By power I mean influence and money. The answer is not for us to move further from one another, crouched in opposing fortresses constructed from vindictive words. We need now to move closer to one another, to understand one another. If we can take anything heartening from this dreadful attack it is of course the actions of the three women, it’s always women, that boldly guarded Lee Rigby’s body as he lay needlessly murdered. These women looked beyond the fear and chaos and desperation and attuned instead to a higher code. One of virtue, integrity and strength.

To truly demonstrate defiance in the face of this sad violence, we must be loving and compassionate to one another. Let’s look beyond our superficial and fleeting differences. The murderers want angry patriots to desecrate mosques and perpetuate violence. How futile their actions seem if we instead leave flowers at each other’s places of worship. Let’s reach out in the spirit of love and humanity and connect to one another, perhaps we will then see what is really behind this conflict, this division, this hatred and make that our focus.

http://www.russellbrand.tv/2013/05/woolwich/

[joeysteele]

That is a very impressive article from him Jack.

[Kizzy]

Thats so wrong
He does not want any dead.
You keep making that up


You couldn't make this stuff up arista, when we need our PM most when the country is thrown into calamity by an act of violent terrorism where is our illustrious leader.... Attending COBRA meetings? Travelling to barracks across the UK reassuring our troops?
No.... he is sunning himself, sipping cocktails!
This was a really ill timed break, it gives the wrong message to the nation, the troops and the dead soldiers family. It says ' I don't care'.

[arista]

Kizzy
its not the End of Our Nation.


its a Holiday
loads of MP's are on Holiday.

[arista]

Live on Ch4News now
talking about the Kenya Connection
that Omah posted


"He was believed to have been preparing to fight
with Somali militant group al-Shabab,
a Kenyan government spokesman told the BBC, and was later deported."

[Kizzy]

Another excellent piece from Russell Brand on these events:



http://www.russellbrand.tv/2013/05/woolwich/

I disagree, I think he is totally wrong in his perception that this man was 'poor' or 'mentally ill' or 'economically or socially isolated'.
He was indoctrinated by hate clerics.
However wordy Mr Brand is he has, for me anyway got the wrong idea here.

[Kizzy]

Kizzy
its not the End of Our Nation.


its a Holiday
loads of MP's are on Holiday.

You can attempt to downplay this as much as you want, it won't stop the shockwaves as the Prime minister deserts his country at a hostile time.
He is not an MP, he is our head statesman, it is his duty to be here in times of uncertainty.

[Jack_]

To murder someone (even more so when it's predetermined, and especially in such a brutal manner) I think you have to have some kind of mental illness or problem. No sane, rational thinking person can be so cold and heartless as to take another person's life. For most people, empathy kicks in and would stop that in its tracks.

Of course he was indoctrinated, but to actually do something of this magnitude requires you to not be totally wired up right above.

[Kizzy]

To murder someone (even more so when it's predetermined, and especially in such a brutal manner) I think you have to have some kind of mental illness or problem. No sane, rational thinking person can be so cold and heartless as to take another person's life. For most people, empathy kicks in and would stop that in its tracks.

Of course he was indoctrinated, but to actually do something of this magnitude requires you to not be totally wired up right above.

We do not know the extent to which this man or others who have committed similar crimes have been influenced, via teachings both religious and political. Do I think it is possible to drive over time people to do these acts? yes I do.
That is why the new tack is to focus on the teaching of hate clerics, to enable anti terrorism police to identify why, how,where and who is at risk of becoming the next person to run rampage with a machete in the streets.

[joeysteele]

To murder someone (even more so when it's predetermined, and especially in such a brutal manner) I think you have to have some kind of mental illness or problem. No sane, rational thinking person can be so cold and heartless as to take another person's life. For most people, empathy kicks in and would stop that in its tracks.

Of course he was indoctrinated, but to actually do something of this magnitude requires you to not be totally wired up right above.

I can take that on board, really good reasoning as much as it is possible to in this particular horrific tragedy.

[MTVN]

I don't think a mental illness is prerequisite of being a murderer, you simply have to believe your actions are justified, hence why the whole of human history has in large part been shaped by wars and killings

[Omah]

I don't think a mental illness is prerequisite of being a murder, you simply have to believe your actions are justified, hence why the whole of human history has in large part been shaped by wars and killings

True ..... :thumbs:

[Ninastar]

I don't think a mental illness is prerequisite of being a murderer, you simply have to believe your actions are justified, hence why the whole of human history has in large part been shaped by wars and killings

i agree.

[Kizzy]

You have to ask what would make a rational mind capable of killing then.
What are the methods used and how are they implemented?

[Ninastar]

believing they are doing right by following a cult/religion for so many years.

[joeysteele]

You have to ask what would make a rational mind capable of killing then.
What are the methods used and how are they implemented?

So many questions and so few answers as to this problem and as you say if the mind was rational how could they be made to kill and in this case so brutally and in sucha barbaric way too.

That is why I can take on board Jack's statement that they cannot be wired up right in the first place.
In my view too that's likely, certainly in most cases anyway.

[Mrluvaluva]

http://news.sky.com/story/1095844/man-stabbed-near-site-of-woolwich-murder

Crazy

[Omah]

So many questions and so few answers as to this problem and as you say if the mind was rational how could they be made to kill and in this case so brutally and in sucha barbaric way too.

Erm ..... in WWI and WWII (to name but 2 "conflicts"), millions of "rational minds" were "made to kill", brutally, barbarically and every other way - even elements of our beloved "Dad's Army" were trained in "terrorism" should Hitler invade our shores ..... :idc:

[joeysteele]

Erm ..... in WWI and WWII (to name but 2 "conflicts", millions of "rational minds" were "made to kill", brutally, barbarically and every other way - even elements of our beloved "Dad's Army" were trained in "terrorism" should Hitler invade our shores ..... :idc:

I am only asking the question Omah not stating anything as a fact.

Also while I accept your post above being accurate which it is.
I myself,speaking for myself, see a difference of people killing each other who are in mutually declared world wars armed against each other as opposed to the brutal barbaric murder of someone,even a serving Soldier, just walking in a street unarmed.

[thesheriff443]

these men where willing to kill and willing to die.
you don't have to be insane to murder someone that's why we have a system in which doctors test individuals who murder but claim to be insane. and in most cases it is proved they are sane!

[Kizzy]

Erm ..... in WWI and WWII (to name but 2 "conflicts"), millions of "rational minds" were "made to kill", brutally, barbarically and every other way - even elements of our beloved "Dad's Army" were trained in "terrorism" should Hitler invade our shores ..... :idc:

That is not in even nearly the same context as is being discussed omah...:nono:

[MTVN]

However incorrect they might be in their distorted view of the world they are also fighting a war; they think that the West has waged war on the Islamic world and they are fighting back on behalf of it

I actually think that dismissing them as insane sort of alleviates responsibility for what they did as though they weren't in proper control of their minds and their actions, when clearly they planned this operation, specifically picked a soldier as a target, deliberately carried out the murder to increase the shock value, and then sought to have people film them so they could try and justify it

Edit - and like Sheriff said there are quite rigorous and extensive examinations done of peoples mental health after they've carried out such crimes, they don't universally find people insane

[Omah]

I am only asking the question Omah not stating anything as a fact.

Also while I accept your post above being accurate which it is.
I myself,speaking for myself, see a difference of people killing each other who are in mutually declared world wars armed against each other as opposed to the brutal barbaric murder of someone,even a serving Soldier, just walking in a street unarmed.

That's exactly the sort of thing that elements of "Dad's Army", which as you know, was made up of butchers, bankers and boys, were trained to do should this country be invaded - they would retreat to underground bunkers then emerge at night to cause mayhem amongst the invaders, killing brutally, barbarically and every other way - the life span of these previously "rationally-minded" men was estimated as a maximum of 2 weeks ..... :pipe:

Similarly, non-combatants, particularly women, were selected for the SOE, where they were trained in all the methods of killing serving soldiers, behind enemy lines, armed or not ..... :idc:

Michael Adebolajo said he had carried out his attack because British soldiers killed Muslims every day.

No doubt a similar justification could have been used by the "civilians" of SOE - German soldiers are killing non-Germans every day, so we'll kill German soldiers any way we can - the knife, the garrotte, the bullet or the bomb ..... :hmph:

"War" is frequently just a matter of perception :

President John F. Kennedy , early 1961, when he secretly sent 400 Special Operations Forces-trained (Green Beret) soldiers to teach the South Vietnamese how to fight what was called counterinsurgency war against Communist guerrillas in South Vietnam.

When Kennedy was assassinated in November 1963, there were more than 16,000 U.S. military advisers in South Vietnam, and more than 100 Americans had been killed.

Kennedy's successor, Lyndon B. Johnson, in August 1964, secured from Congress a functional (not actual) declaration of war: the Tonkin Gulf Resolution.

Then, in February and March 1965, Johnson authorized the sustained bombing, by U.S. aircraft, of targets north of the 17th parallel, and on 8 March dispatched 3,500 Marines to South Vietnam. Legal declaration or no, the United States was now at war.

This was not a "mutually declared world war" ..... :nono:

That was why I used the word "conflict" ..... ;)

[Kizzy]

Yes it is the randomness that is becoming an issue, not specifically rich or poor, just identified and targetted. It will be apparent to them quickly who are suggestible and easily manipulated, these will then be indoctrinated.
They withdraw from friends, family becoming increasingly isolated until such time as they are called to 'martyr' themselves.
To them they are not mad or bad, but they are being used as instruments in a war, as was said on jacks link, everyone is condemning it but there is no searching for a real solution.

[Omah]

That is not in even nearly the same context as is being discussed omah...:nono:

Of course it is ..... Some FMS seem to think that you have to be "mad" to kill ..... :shrug:

[Omah]

these men where willing to kill and willing to die.
you don't have to be insane to murder someone that's why we have a system in which doctors test individuals who murder but claim to be insane. and in most cases it is proved they are sane!

I agree ..... :thumbs:

[Omah]

However incorrect they might be in their distorted view of the world they are also fighting a war; they think that the West has waged war on the Islamic world and they are fighting back on behalf of it

I actually think that dismissing them as insane sort of alleviates responsibility for what they did as though they weren't in proper control of their minds and their actions, when clearly they planned this operation, specifically picked a soldier as a target, deliberately carried out the murder to increase the shock value, and then sought to have people film them so they could try and justify it

Well put ..... :thumbs:

[Kizzy]

Of course it is ..... Some FMS seem to think that you have to be "mad" to kill ..... :shrug:

You keep referring to 'dads army' and how it was routine to kill, I disagree there are soldiers now who are severely traumatised by having to kill, it is never something you 'just do'.
The recruitment of young men by hate clerics is nowhere near the same thing either.

[Omah]

You keep referring to 'dads army' and how it was routine to kill.

No, I don't ..... :nono:

Where did I say "routine" ..... :conf:

[Kizzy]

No, I don't ..... :nono:

Where did I say "routine" ..... :conf:

''they would retreat to underground bunkers then emerge at night to cause mayhem amongst the invaders, killing brutally, barbarically and every other way''

This sounds as if it was relatively routine, but that isn't the point here is it?

[Omah]

''they would retreat to underground bunkers then emerge at night to cause mayhem amongst the invaders, killing brutally, barbarically and every other way''

This sounds as if it was relatively routine, but that isn't the point here is it?

"Sounds", eh ?

You heard it as "routine" but I didn't say it ..... :puzzled:

"Sounds" as if your imagination is playing tricks ..... :eek:

[Kizzy]

"Sounds", eh ?

You heard it as "routine" but I didn't say it ..... :puzzled:

"Sounds" as if your imagination is playing tricks ..... :eek:

Well now you are just derailing the thread.

[Omah]

Well now you are just derailing the thread.

No, you are making a good job of that ..... :pipe:

[arista]

http://news.sky.com/story/1095844/man-stabbed-near-site-of-woolwich-murder

Crazy


Yes but at least he is Alive

[arista]

believing they are doing right by following a cult/religion for so many years.


Yes Good Point

Extreme Muslims follow Allah

[joeysteele]

I can really see all sides to this, including what Omah said as well to be fair.

I can only look at myself though as a person and I know,I couldn't be 'brainwashed' into killing people at random, especially anyone unarmed like Lee Rigby was last week.
If this Country was at war as in the world wars, then obviously I would probably get called up and have to go, I would though then be fighting against armed enemies and alongside my fellow soldiers.
Not only then defending myself and hopefully loved ones at home but also my fellow soldiers fighting alongside me.

However,outside of that, no organisation could so fill me with general hate to the point where I took on ridiculous nonsense to the point of not killing in a defending sense but killing brutally for very little or no meaning whatsoever,no matter the perceived cause.

That is why I still hold more to Jack's view on this that people who can be indoctrinated that way must at least in some way not be wired up right in the first place to be 'made' to or at least most of them being so.
These people don't have in the main the real established elements of their faith condoning their actions so why listen to bitter hate filled wannabees and then do what they tell them to.

I don't know the answers,any of the answers, I am not the intelligence organisations, I can only make observations from my own perspective and how I think.
What I saw on and in the media last week is not something I think could be termed any legitimate act in any way and not even in a war zone situation either.

I can see all sides to these arguments,which is why I choose not to dismiss others points because really none of us have the answers to this issue and for me even less so after the horrific event of last week.

[arista]

Newsround would not show the ITV News clip

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/23/article-2329236-19F0DD0C000005DC-652_634x435.jpg

Thats wrong
they could Pause it
hide it from young children - BBC Confusion

[Jesus.]

http://dailyatheistquote.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/weinberg1.jpg

[lostalex]

Is the reverse also true though Jesus? Sometimes does religion make evil people do good things?

[joeysteele]

Is the reverse also true though Jesus? Sometimes does religion make evil people do good things?

I think it is Lostalex and also religion is the smokescreen for certain individuals and organisations to follow their own agendas thereby using religion.
The sort of acts,like last weeks, are totally against generally the real teachings of religions.

[Jesus.]

Is the reverse also true though Jesus? Sometimes does religion make evil people do good things?

Such as?

Are deeds really genuinely good if they believe they're doing it because they're being watched from the skies, or they will be rewarded in the afterlife?

[lostalex]

Such as?

Are deeds really genuinely good if they believe they're doing it because they're being watched from the skies, or they will be rewarded in the afterlife?

I suppose it depends. Are you more interested in motives or results?

There's no doubt that plenty of evil people give money to their church charities or volunteer because they are told to by their religion.

[Jesus.]

I suppose it depends. Are you more interested in motives or results?

A good result, with an ulterior motive isn't a good act in my book. It's a calculated act.

[lostalex]

A good result, with an ulterior motive isn't a good act in my book. It's a calculated act.

I don't think you really believe that. I think you know that we are all selfish animals in the end. And no matter the motivations, any work of good, even if it's done by someone very evil, is still 1 more work of good in the world. which is a good thing.

Hitler created a brilliant roadway system you know. The trains were always on time under Mussolini.

Albert Einstein was a horrible misogynist. He believed it his wife's duty to serve him.

[Jesus.]

I don't think you really believe that. I think you know that we are all selfish animals in the end. And no matter the motivations, any work of good, even if it's done by someone very evil, is still 1 more work of good in the world. which is a good thing.

Hitler created a brilliant roadway system you know. The trains were always on time under Mussolini.

Good results are different to good acts. Hitler didn't build the road system to help others, he built it to enable better services for him and his military, and the Mussolini train thing I was always lead to believe was a myth.

medicine sans frontiers is an example of an organisation that does good deeds for no ulterior motive, and finishes with good results.

The quote was about good people doing bad things anyway, so this is veering a little bit away from where I intended to take it.

[MTVN]

Not to go horribly off topic but the Mussolini train thing is true apparently, labour was actually very organised and disciplined under fascism in some sectors because the fascist workers syndicates basically had a monopoly on negotiations and labour disputes over the socialist or catholic unions

[lostalex]

Good results are different to good acts. Hitler didn't build the road system to help others, he built it to enable better services for him and his military, and the Mussolini train thing I was always lead to believe was a myth.

medicine sans frontiers is an example of an organisation that does good deeds for no ulterior motive, and finishes with good results.

The quote was about good people doing bad things anyway, so this is veering a little bit away from where my I intended to take it.

It's called Doctors Without Borders. stop capitulating to the french.

The point is, i'm sure there are plenty of doctors that are also pedophiles and wife beaters and rude assholes that are just horrible human beings. but they do good.

Does it matter why they do good? does it matter, if they do good just to get rich? or just to please their imaginary god? if they do it just out of their own thrill seeking? does it matter? Is their work any less good?

Perhaps some doctors just enjoy cutting into human flesh. does that make their life saving surgery any less good?

If we judged everything by motivation, what would survive that standard?

[Jesus.]

Not to go horribly off topic but the Mussolini train thing is true apparently, labour was actually very organised and disciplined under fascism in some sectors because the fascist workers syndicates basically had a monopoly on negotiations and labour disputes over the socialist or catholic unions

Cheers for adding to, and clearing that up, Matt.

It's called Doctors Without Borders. stop capitulating to the french.

The point is, i'm sure there are plenty of doctors that are also pedophiles and wife beaters and rude assholes that are just horrible human beings. but they do good.

Does it matter why they do good? does it matter, if they do good just to get rich? or just to please their imaginary god? if they do it just out of their own thrill seeking? does it matter? Is their work any less good?

Perhaps some doctors just enjoy cutting into human flesh. does that make their life saving surgery any less good?

If we judged everything by motivation, what would survive that standard?

Ju suis tres desole mon ami.

This has been turned completely around from the quote I posted, which was about what it takes for good people to do bad things.

[lostalex]

well yea, it was turned around, cause i responded to your post about good people doing evil things because of religion, and i responded that also, sometimes evil people do good things because of religion. I was referring to people who get involved with a church and get involved with charity and do good things. I know there are plenty of example of gang members who are reformed in prison, and come out and do great things through their church, especially with trying to keep kids off the streets.

You know I'm an atheist, so I'm not defending the ideology of religion, I'm just saying, that sometimes religion helps evil people do good things, in the same way that sometimes religion makes good people do evil things.

I'm also a former addict, and i know a lot of people that have become religious through the 12 step program, so I've seen that religion does give oppurtunities for "evil" people to do good things.

I don't think they need religion to do good things, i'm just saying that religion does encourage and facilitate some evil people to do good things.

[Jesus.]

well yea, it was turned around, cause i responded to your post about good people doing evil things because of religion, and i responded that also, sometimes evil people do good things because of religion. I was referring to people who get involved with a church and get involved with charity and do good things. I know there are plenty of example of gang members who are reformed in prison, and come out and do great things through their church, especially with trying to keep kids off the streets.

You know I'm an atheist, so I'm not defending the ideology of religion, I'm just saying, that sometimes religion helps evil people do good things, in the same way that sometimes religion makes good people do evil things.

I'm also a former addict, and i know a lot of people that have become religious through the 12 step program, so I've seen that religion does give oppurtunities for "evil" people to do good things.

I don't think they need religion to do good things, i'm just saying that religion does encourage and facilitate some evil people to do good things.

I accept your views, I just don't share them. I'm not sure how dealing with addiction could be classed as someone being evil. I would view that more as people replacing one addiction with another. However, I know nothing about the 12 step program and any of those peoples lives, so I'll concede I could be wrong about that.

[lostalex]

I accept your views, I just don't share them. I'm not sure how dealing with addiction could be classed as someone being evil. I would view that more as people replacing one addiction with another. However, I know nothing about the 12 step program and any of those peoples lives, so I'll concede I could be wrong about that.

Trust me, if you know addiction, you know that you do evil things. That's why making Amends is one of the steps. There's no such thing as an addict that doesn't need to make amends. The actions you take to support the disease are evil. No body ever supported a drug habit by doing good.

I don't even know what evil means, because i'm not religious, but i'd say selfish is the closest thing to "evil" in my understanding.

Hurting others to benefit yourself is what I think of as "evil".

[Jesus.]

Not to go horribly off topic but the Mussolini train thing is true apparently, labour was actually very organised and disciplined under fascism in some sectors because the fascist workers syndicates basically had a monopoly on negotiations and labour disputes over the socialist or catholic unions

Cheers for adding to, and clearing that up, Matt.

Right, that bothered me, so I've looked at a few things and from what I can make out, the railway program that Mussolini claimed credit for, was actually started and nearly completed before he came to power. It was in a terrible state after WW1 so these repairs were very necessary. However, I can well believe that his government kept the unions in check - what kind of fascists are unable to deal with unions?

[MTVN]

Hmm well I don't know too much about the railway program or the state of the railways themselves, but from when I was studying it last term I just remembered a quote from a historian who said the fascists were able to get the trains to run on time thanks to the workers syndicates, the book I remembered it from is all online actually and this was the passage I was remembering:

The union, or syndicate, linked the old radical aspirations to the new reactionary reality; or rather, it showed that Fascism was not merely reaction. And it worked, or seemed to. It is literally true, in 1920-21, that the Fascists made the trains run on time, indeed run at all: a remarkable high proportion of the early provincial leaders, including Farinacci himself, were station masters or other railway officials

Page 261 here: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=LFnIj7iyVQYC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

But yeah that was before Mussolini actually came to power when the old regime was collapsing along with most of Italy's key services, so he had little do it and was just due to regional fascist leaders organising labour more efficiently through the syndicates

So anyway you're right I was a little off with that claim and I guess that's not really what most people mean when they joke about how Mussolini got the trains running on time, but that was what I had been thinking of

[Jesus.]

No worries, thanks for taking the time to look at it and posting again on the subject.

[bbfan1991]

EDL protesting at Downing Street and showing how vile, thick and illiterate they are:joker:.

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BLR21jICIAAUy4r.jpg

[lostalex]

EDL protesting at Downing Street and showing how vile, thick and illiterate they are:joker:.

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BLR21jICIAAUy4r.jpg

That cannot be real. "sport are troops" :joker:

Surely they are being ironic.

[arista]

EDL protesting at Downing Street and showing how vile, thick and illiterate they are:joker:.

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BLR21jICIAAUy4r.jpg


Yes but enough
to get on O'Reilly on FoxNewsHD

[arista]

On ITV1 London News, just now
one Lady said

"Extreme Muslims who come into our country
but they won't obey the Law of the Land, they are saying if
the Law of the Land is not Islam - then we should burn in Hell!
If we go over to see you we obey your Cultures"


That good looking lady spoke utter sense.


also on ITVNews on now
a 50 year old man was arrested in London .


& a Exclusive from Nigeria

[lostalex]

There is ofcourse a double standard Arista.

Just like if a French couple comes to America and speaks french, if the American shop keeper says "speak American English!" then the shop keeper is a racist.

If an American couple goes to France and speaks american english, if the french shop keeper says "speak French!" then the Americans are arrogant assholes for not speaking french.

[Kizzy]

Yes but enough
to get on O'Reilly on FoxNewsHD

Good point arista, by broadcasting this stuff they are helping these fascists spread their hate.
Why do they give them airtime?.... Oh it's fox.

[King Gizzard]

Help the Heroes refuse to accept donations from the EDL..surely they'll get the message soon

[bbfan1991]

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BLSlBrnCMAI4znm.jpg

[bbfan1991]

EDL further demonstrating just how thick they are!!!

[Niamh.]

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BLSlBrnCMAI4znm.jpg

Declaring war on Narnia is a bit far :shocked:

[arista]

Help the Heroes refuse to accept donations from the EDL..surely they'll get the message soon


Yes they would look wrong to take any money from EDL


Correct to block him.

[Jesus.]

The Aslan one is clearly a fake. Can't believe I'm defending the EDL.

[MTVN]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-22689552

A mosque has been praised for serving tea and biscuits to English Defence League supporters after the far-right group arranged a demonstration there.

About six people turned up to protest at the mosque in Bull Lane, York, on Sunday and were invited inside to play football with worshippers.

More than 100 supporters of the mosque had gone there after learning of the planned EDL protest.

Archbishop of York Dr John Sentamu said the mosque's response was "fantastic".

He said: "Tea, biscuits, and football are a great and typically Yorkshire combination when it comes to disarming hostile and extremist views."

'Proud moment'
Father Tim Jones, who went to the Bull Lane mosque, which is situated in his parish, said: "I've always known they were intelligent and compassionate people and I think this has demonstrated the extent to which they are people of courage - certainly physical courage and also a high degree of moral courage.

"I think the world can learn from what happened outside that ramshackle little mosque on Sunday."

Hull Road ward councillor Neil Barnes said it had been a "proud moment for York".

He said: "I don't think I'll ever forget the day that the York Mosque tackled anger and hatred with peace and warmth - and I won't forget the sight of a Muslim offering a protester tea and biscuits with absolute sincerity."

Fears over a demonstration grew after Yorkshire EDL Scarborough Division posted a message on its Facebook page calling for supporters to gather outside the mosque.

Imam Abid Salik said: "We did have a few people who did come to protest but when they came some of the members of the mosque went over and they engaged in a conversation.

"Some people went over with cups of tea and biscuits, they were talking for about 30 or 40 minutes and then they came inside, which was a really, really beautiful thing."

Aw isn't that lovely

[bbfan1991]

It is, shame some people are using the tragic event of what happened in London to cause trouble and try to cause tensions within the different communities in the UK.

[bbfan1991]

22-year-old Michael Adebowale, a suspect in murder of Lee Rigby, has been discharged from hospital and is in police custody in south London.

[arista]

22-year-old Michael Adebowale, a suspect in murder of Lee Rigby, has been discharged from hospital and is in police custody in south London.

Yes Good
get him locked away soon

[arista]

"isn't that lovely "

Its a start.

[Kizzy]

It's amazing what a cup of tea can do :)

[bbfan1991]

Woolwich Suspect Charged With Soldier Murder http://news.sky.com/story/1097164/woolwich-suspect-charged-with-soldier-murder …

[bbfan1991]

Woolwich murder suspect Michael Adebowale in court

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22713349

[arista]

Woolwich Suspect Adebolajo Leaves Hospital

Both Evil Killers
are now in police stations

http://news.sky.com/story/1097915/woolwich-suspect-adebolajo-leaves-hospital

[Marcus.]

Woolwich Suspect Adebolajo Leaves Hospital

Both Evil Killers
are now in police stations

http://news.sky.com/story/1097915/woolwich-suspect-adebolajo-leaves-hospital

yes
no give them what for

[Livia]

The Aslan one is clearly a fake. Can't believe I'm defending the EDL.

Well I guess if you're going to demand freedom of speech, sometimes you have to stand up for people you don’t necessarily agree with.

The EDL are made up of semi-literate knuckle-draggers who can barely string a sentence together. When asked their views, they struggle to make a point because their vocabularies are limited. They are, however, united in their hatred of Islam and of immigrants in general. Because of this they are ridiculed, harangued and castigated continually.

On TV the night before last I listened to a very touchy-feely, understanding type saying how young Muslims are recruited by radical clerics because they are disengaged with a society in which they have no stake, that their access to jobs and education is minimal and that they are held back simply because of their ethnicity. Can the same not be said about young white working-class men? Are those in the EDL not just disaffected and being radicalised? Shouldn't they be given the understanding and bleeding-heart acceptance that other young people from multi-cultural backgrounds get, or is it okay to continue with the diatribes because they're white and British?

[Kizzy]

No I don't believe the members of the EDL are being radicalised, they are simply ignorant, does the hysterical right wing media help?...no.
I don't believe any hate speech should be tolerated from any side.
Disengagement is a strange term too, British Muslims could be made to feel an inner turmoil with not only the culture clash but the situation abroad.
This colours the feeling of those who due to their religion and ethnicity may be viewed with derision by some suspicion by others.
Young white men do not have these crosses to bear, if they are disaffected it is their socioeconomic background that has seen them socialized into this mindset.

[lostalex]

Does the EDL have a position on gay marriage?

[arista]

Does the EDL have a position on gay marriage?


Do not think so

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/6/3/241047/default/v1/sun-1-329x437.jpg

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4953956/Anjem-Choudary-Lee-Rigby-will-burn-in-hellfire.html
Video:
Anjem Choudary in vile Woolwich rant

[Nedusa]

I can't believe this evil hate filled preacher is free to live in this country and spew out his vile rants inciting people to murder British Soldiers, and yet no one does or says anything to him, in fact he is treated like a minor celeb and asked to appear on various radio and TV shows. And to add insult to injury he receives large amounts of Housing Benefit as he has not worked (as a Solicitor) for over 17 years.

Has this Country gone stark raving Mad.............!!!!!!

[joeysteele]

I can't believe this evil hate filled preacher is free to live in this country and spew out his vile rants inciting people to murder British Soldiers, and yet no one does or says anything to him, in fact he is treated like a minor celeb and asked to appear on various radio and TV shows. And to add insult to injury he receives large amounts of Housing Benefit as he has not worked (as a Solicitor) for over 17 years.

Has this Country gone stark raving Mad.............!!!!!!

I agree, I also was totally dismayed that one of the murderers,(I won't say defendants because there is no doubt they did this barbaric act),was able to express he wanted to be called by another name.

If he was to have been allowed another name then give him one most of the public would call him.
I just don't get that request and the permitting it at all by the court,to me it was unbelievable.

[Kizzy]

The transcript read out on the news of the conversation in court was a joke... I couldn't believe my ears!
Why were they pandering to him?

[Alf]

Ten years ago today, Lee Rigby was brutally murderd in the Street, simply for serving his country.

May he rest in peace

[arista]

Ten years ago today, Lee Rigby was brutally murdered in the Street, simply for serving his country.

May he rest in peace


Yes Evil Killing
on London Streets


Evil Terrorists
ran him down first
made it easy for them
to start hacking his body up.

[arista]

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Media/Pix/pictures/2013/12/20/1387543632123/Michael-Adebolajo-009.jpg?width=700&quality=45&dpr=2&s=none