Crimewatch,The McCanns

[the truth]

They were made Aguido's 4 months after her disappearance, I believe. I'm pretty sure sedatives remain in the body for at least that long (but I could be wrong about that fact - I do know that other drugs do, though).

So 4 months after Maddie's disappearance, and with the McCanns as suspects, they were able to dictate to the police what they could and couldn't access, and refuse to have the twins tested? This is what the story is?

No thats your deliberate misinterpretation of whats been said
They didnt dictate, but they may have managed to subdue, avoid, stall etc the media and the language barrier assisted in this

[the truth]

if anyone knows how to lie and cover things up its corrupt doctors and specialists. with some of them its become 1 of the main parts of their job description

[Josy]

Hmm according to this (http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/39077415/Rebuttal%20of%20%22Fact%22%201), which links to the Portuguese police files, the McCann's said from the start that the patio doors were closed but not locked, and somewhere else on the site it gives a pretty detailed abduction theory (http://madeleinemythsexposed.pbworks.com/w/page/55163729/Abduction%20Theories#Theopenwindow) which gives a few reasons why the window might have been opened:

There was no fingerprints from anyone else on the window though apart from Kates.

(According to numerous websites online)

[Lee.]

There was no fingerprints from anyone else on the window though apart from Kates.

(According to numerous websites online)

But wouldn't a child abductor be very likely to wear gloves?

[Jesus.]

No thats your deliberate misinterpretation of whats been said
They didnt dictate, but they may have managed to subdue, avoid, stall etc the media and the language barrier assisted in this

So I have deliberately misinterpreted it, but your argument is that they "may" have been able to stall it because of the language barrier? If I was a criminal, I'd move to Portugal. Seems like you only have to talk in English, but really slowly and in a portuguese accent that you "no comprende whata they a sayina'" and you're home free.

if anyone knows how to lie and cover things up its corrupt doctors and specialists. with some of them its become 1 of the main parts of their job description

That is completely baseless.

[Lee.]

There was no fingerprints from anyone else on the window though apart from Kates.

(According to numerous websites online)

And also, I do not believe that Kate's would have been the only fingerprints on a window used by hundreds of holidaymakers.

[Josy]

But wouldn't a child abductor be very likely to wear gloves?

I have no idea

[Marsh.]

the mccanns admitted it on crimewatch....did you not watch the show? them and all their friends did it

They didn't admit to doing it AFTER Maddie vanished. Did you watch the show?

[Josy]

And also, I do not believe that Kate's would have been the only fingerprints on a window used by hundreds of holidaymakers.

I read numerous times on those different sites (the links that have been posted) that the only fingerprints found on the window/frame were Kates and the window had recently been washed too.

Not got a clue how they would find out about the washing of it but yeah that's what I read.

[Marsh.]

I assumed the only fingerprints that could be identified were Kate's.

So, hers were the only prints full stop?

[Josy]

I assumed the only fingerprints that could be identified were Kate's.

So, hers were the only prints full stop?

I'm trying to find the part I read about the fingerprints, you could well be right though.

[user104658]

It's all splitting hairs... They're guilty of causing her death no matter what happened that night.

Let's imagine a child DID die in an accident after being left by their parents, alone, in a holiday appartment, after the children had clearly been distressed the previous night, and even if they reported it there and then.

Would they be regarded as innocent victims, or even applauded as heroes as the McCanns have been at times? Or would they RIGHTLY face the heat publicly and possibly even legally, for blatant careless neglect causing the death of their child?

I strongly suspect the latter.

That in mind - let's sat its exactly as they say. She didn't have an accident, instead, an abductor broke in, took her, and killed her or worse. Why is the response any different? Why does it matter WHAT happened to her? Why isn't it, in fact, even worse?

They are guilty as sin, whether it's a covered up accident or an abduction, and it's a bloody tragedy that from some people, they probably get more sympathy than the poor girl herself.

Now, you can say "they've suffered enough by losing her, imagine how they must feel, they're deserving if public sympathy" and all I can say in response is... I have a 3 and a half year old girl. If my careless, selfish, ridiculously neglectful actions lead to her death I would not WANT any sympathy, from anyone. I would want the worst that the world could throw at me.

[Vicky.]

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic111.html

Hmm. Cant believe I have never checked for other peoples statements tbh. Seems some of the restaurant employees make the timeline shorter than the Tapas 9 do. Child discovered missing at around 9.30 and the search began

(Checking the first line of each statement takes you to the PJ released files, so the statements seem to be real)

Edit. That does kind of fit in with a statement I read at one point a while ago, in which apparently the witness heard someone shouting 'Madeleine, madeleine' at about 9.30. Will try to find it

Between approximately a quarter past nine and half past nine we left the Tapas bar to go home, we walked across the MW reception area, crossed the road and a semi circular path to return to the apartment, were we put the children to bed and a short while later did the same ourselves. I do not remember seeing or hearing anyone during our return to the apartment. When I crossed the road outside the MW reception I remember there were cars parked, I remember taking some time to see if I could cross the road because there were cars parked to my left and I was carrying I****. They were about six metres away from me and i calculate that some (inaudible) metres from the back of Gerry's apartment, I do not remember anything about these cars, it was normal for cars to be parked there and in the morning they were no longer there. My wife mentioned on the following day that she vaguely remembered someone calling "Madeleine, Madeleine", this was after we had crossed the road from the MW reception and before entering our apartment. She does not remember where the sound came from or whether it was in an urgent tone, not paying any more attention to it and only remembered the following day when we heard about Madeleine's disappearance".

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STEPHEN-CARPENTER.htm

Between 9.15 + 9.30 ish

[Marsh.]

Where are they asking for sympathy?

The interviews are pleas for information so the mystery of where Maddie is can be solved.

[MTVN]

It's all splitting hairs... They're guilty of causing her death no matter what happened that night.

Let's imagine a child DID die in an accident after being left by their parents, alone, in a holiday appartment, after the children had clearly been distressed the previous night, and even if they reported it there and then.

Would they be regarded as innocent victims, or even applauded as heroes as the McCanns have been at times? Or would they RIGHTLY face the heat publicly and possibly even legally, for blatant careless neglect causing the death of their child?

I strongly suspect the latter.

That in mind - let's sat its exactly as they say. She didn't have an accident, instead, an abductor broke in, took her, and killed her or worse. Why is the response any different? Why does it matter WHAT happened to her? Why isn't it, in fact, even worse?

They are guilty as sin, whether it's a covered up accident or an abduction, and it's a bloody tragedy that from some people, they probably get more sympathy than the poor girl herself.

Now, you can say "they've suffered enough by losing her, imagine how they must feel, they're deserving if public sympathy" and all I can say in response is... I have a 3 and a half year old girl. If my careless, selfish, ridiculously neglectful actions lead to her death I would not WANT any sympathy, from anyone. I would want the worst that the world could throw at me.

At what point should this become the case?

Like say a child dies when their parent is in the bath, or while their having dinner out in their garden, or if they pop next door for a few minutes to borrow something, are the parents responsible for the death in all of these cases?

[user104658]

At what point should this become the case?

Like say a child dies when their parent is in the bath, or while their having dinner out in their garden, or if they pop next door for a few minutes to borrow something, are the parents responsible for the death in all of these cases?

When they leave their distressed children completely alone for hours on end, in a foreign country, so that they can go out for drinks with their buddies.

Pretending that this is acceptable parenting, or comparable to popping out for a few minutes, is utter madness.

[MTVN]

When they leave their distressed children completely alone for hours on end, in a foreign country, so that they can go out for drinks with their buddies.

Pretending that this is acceptable parenting, or comparable to popping out for a few minutes, is utter madness.

It wasn't for hours on end though, they were checking every half hour, I know you will say that they did do it for hours in previous nights but the fact that it happened on the night they never went half an hour without checking them shows that this can happen at any time or at any point when you leave your children unattended, even just for a few minutes

[thesheriff443]

When they leave their distressed children completely alone for hours on end, in a foreign country, so that they can go out for drinks with their buddies.

Pretending that this is acceptable parenting, or comparable to popping out for a few minutes, is utter madness.

god, you have got it bad!

you cant do enough to make them out to be monsters,

they where not distressed when they left them, foreign country, yes a holiday resort, not war torn country.

it was not an 18 to 30 holiday and they where getting smashed every night.

how many parents are drunk or on drugs at night while in charge of their kids?
bloody thousands!

[user104658]

They're not monsters, they're just the same typically self-involved parents that embody the attitude of the entire western world. That doesn't make it any less neglectful (they have admitted themselves that Madeleine asked where they were the night before as thy were crying, they were distressed, and these "parents" were aware of that).

Leaving your kids alone to go OUT with friends is not bloody OK! and the fact that "loads of other people do it" doesn'take it any better, it only makes it more depressing.

[AnnieK]

god, you have got it bad!

you cant do enough to make them out to be monsters,

they where not distressed when they left them, foreign country, yes a holiday resort, not war torn country.

it was not an 18 to 30 holiday and they where getting smashed every night.

how many parents are drunk or on drugs at night while in charge of their kids?
bloody thousands!

No, they weren't BUT they had been distressed enough the night before to mention it to the parents on the morning. I don't think they're monsters but they were selfish and neglectful.

[user104658]

Also to add, anyone who would leave toddlers out of sight AND SOUND of a supervising adult even for a few minutes, is being careless. Yes you can go to the toilet, go upstairs, go for a shower, but you can always at least hear them if they need you.

I also don't understand the "where do you draw the line" argument? Why not argue that the other way? Accidents can happen in only a few moments, so why not throw caution to the wind and go to work leaving them? Leave them a sandwich and some water, they'll probably be fine.

[Kizzy]

Yes and when these things do happen the parents who are negligent are hauled over the coals as a rule... except now.
It's not always enough to say they have suffered enough.
The case they have brought against the detective is not beneficial to the case is it?

[Cherie]

[QUOTE=the truth;6434537]Agreed and they did it for years BEFORE AND AFTER THIS TRAGEDY
SO DID THEIR FRIENDS

I will ask you again did they confirm this in the Crimewatch programme, because if they didn't this is yet another example of hysterical reporting of facts that are not facts at all.

[Z]

The fact the British government personally intervened on the behalf of the McCanns and their personal connections to Tony Blair and Gordon Brown makes me believe even more than while they may not necessarily be guilty of her accidental death and subsequent cover up; there is certainly some kind of sinister government involvement in all of this that wouldn't be the case if they were a family of street cleaners who went down to the pub and left their three children home alone.

Quite simply, they've been given special treatment because they were affluent white doctors in a foreign country and their little girl has a cute face. That's why it's become a media fixture and that's why they've been given special treatment. I believe them to be guilty of negligence regardless of what actually happened to Madeleine and I think it's shocking they've not been fined, if not jailed for the amount of police time, energy and money they've wasted on this case. It's not going to be solved unless Madeleine escapes or the person responsible comes forward - whether that's an abductor, or one of the McCanns themselves. Truly depressing. It's been six years, no one has any information, they should accept this and just hope that they'll have good news one day. People aren't going to remember something after 6 years that they didn't already know.

[Vicky.]

Apparently Ben Needhams father is kicking off saying why hasn't his son had the same amount of attention as Madeleine. Valid question IMO.

Edit. Seems to be his grandfather.. http://www.itv.com/news/calendar/update/2013-10-16/ben-needhams-grandfather-calls-for-government-help/

[Ammi]

..I don't get the waste of police time and energy, if it does lead to finding out what happened to Madeleine ..not that I think it will but a parent wouldn't ever stop trying though...

[Kazanne]

Apparently Ben Needhams father is kicking off saying why hasn't his son had the same amount of attention as Madeleine. Valid question IMO.

Edit. Seems to be his grandfather.. http://www.itv.com/news/calendar/update/2013-10-16/ben-needhams-grandfather-calls-for-government-help/

Yes it is valid,Ben is just as important isn't he? or is he?
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01444/benneedham_1444544b.jpg

[Z]

..I don't get the waste of police time and energy, if it does lead to finding out what happened to Madeleine ..not that I think it will but a parent wouldn't ever stop trying though...

They've been hiring private investigators for years, they've held up police investigations by not cooperating fully, they've got the police looking at the case once again despite absolutely no new information coming to light, they've just changed the way they've looked at the investigation... the case has gone cold, they're just flogging a dead horse for more money because they don't have any other options, they don't want to accept that their poor decision making led to this situation. I have never once seen them accept any level of criticism or blame. They've got a terrible public image because they've turned themselves into public figures. This is the reason they get criticised. Nobody has ever criticised April Jones' parents for letting her play outside unattended. Nobody has ever criticised the Wells or Chapman families for letting Holly and Jessica go out by themselves. There is a world of difference between a tragic kidnapping and what the McCanns did.

[thesheriff443]

..I don't get the waste of police time and energy, if it does lead to finding out what happened to Madeleine ..not that I think it will but a parent wouldn't ever stop trying though...

I agree, this is such a high profile case that it is worth more to the government to solve this case than cover it up.

[Kizzy]

And I wouldn't blame him, the Mc Canns are also close petsonal friends with Esther Mc Vey... so it's ensured the case will be kept alive.

[AnnieK]

Apparently Ben Needhams father is kicking off saying why hasn't his son had the same amount of attention as Madeleine. Valid question IMO.

Edit. Seems to be his grandfather.. http://www.itv.com/news/calendar/update/2013-10-16/ben-needhams-grandfather-calls-for-government-help/

Yeah I mentioned him earlier in the thread.....his mum got very little coverage when Ben went missing

[Cherie]

Yeah I mentioned him earlier in the thread.....his mum got very little coverage when Ben went missing

The case is still ongoing though, not as high profile as Madeline McCann, but they dug up the area around the grandparents home last year expecting to find a body but nothing.

[Ammi]

They've been hiring private investigators for years, they've held up police investigations by not cooperating fully, they've got the police looking at the case once again despite absolutely no new information coming to light, they've just changed the way they've looked at the investigation... the case has gone cold, they're just flogging a dead horse for more money because they don't have any other options, they don't want to accept that their poor decision making led to this situation. I have never once seen them accept any level of criticism or blame. They've got a terrible public image because they've turned themselves into public figures. This is the reason they get criticised. Nobody has ever criticised April Jones' parents for letting her play outside unattended. Nobody has ever criticised the Wells or Chapman families for letting Holly and Jessica go out by themselves. There is a world of difference between a tragic kidnapping and what the McCanns did.

..but Madeleine has never been found though, isn't that the difference..?..and because she has never been found, that leads to speculations and different possibilities..?...and yeah, they don't have the best public image with some of the public I know..but that doesn't mean that they're responsible for anything other than leaving Madeleine that night ....

[Ammi]

The case is still ongoing though, not as high profile as Madeline McCann, but they dug up the area around the grandparents home last year expecting to find a body but nothing.
..yeah, that wasn't that many years ago either, was it..?...

[Z]

..but Madeleine has never been found though, isn't that the difference..?..and because she has never been found, that leads to speculations and different possibilities..?...and yeah, they don't have the best public image with some of the public I know..but that doesn't mean that they're responsible for anything other than leaving Madeleine that night ....

April Jones has never been found. They sentenced the man they believed murdered her but they've never found a body. I'm of the opinion that what they are responsible of, i.e. irresponsibly leaving their three infants by themselves that night (and every other night of their holiday), is still bad enough that they ought to be punished instead of treated as sympathetic figures in the media. No, they shouldn't be punished forever for such a catastrophic mistake, but to see them getting all this special attention around the world for what was an obscene level of negligence is more than a little bit difficult to take.

[Vicky.]

They've been hiring private investigators for years, they've held up police investigations by not cooperating fully, they've got the police looking at the case once again despite absolutely no new information coming to light, they've just changed the way they've looked at the investigation... the case has gone cold, they're just flogging a dead horse for more money because they don't have any other options, they don't want to accept that their poor decision making led to this situation. I have never once seen them accept any level of criticism or blame. They've got a terrible public image because they've turned themselves into public figures. This is the reason they get criticised. Nobody has ever criticised April Jones' parents for letting her play outside unattended. Nobody has ever criticised the Wells or Chapman families for letting Holly and Jessica go out by themselves. There is a world of difference between a tragic kidnapping and what the McCanns did.

On that note..in a daily mirror article today, the McCanns and the mother of James Bulger were compared :o

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/joan-burnie-kate-gerry-mccann-2457940#.Ul65TknRGXE.twitter

I hope she complains tbh. There is nothing similar abut momentarily losing track of your child and what they did.

[Ammi]

April Jones has never been found. They sentenced the man they believed murdered her but they've never found a body. I'm of the opinion that what they are responsible of, i.e. irresponsibly leaving their three infants by themselves that night (and every other night of their holiday), is still bad enough that they ought to be punished instead of treated as sympathetic figures in the media. No, they shouldn't be punished forever for such a catastrophic mistake, but to see them getting all this special attention around the world for what was an obscene level of negligence is more than a little bit difficult to take.

..I do find it hard to understand them leaving the children alone and especially so after they said that she had woken up the night before and asked where they were..but I see them getting an equal if not more amount of criticism as they do any sympathy and on the Crimewatch interview, Kate volunteered the information that Madeleine had woken up the night before and hadn't liked them going out and leaving her alone..so in saying that..to the world...that's not really going to get any sympathy/understanding, is it..so I don't see that they do that, they just want to keep the case high profile....

EDIT:..but also, isn't losing Madeleine for their decision to leave the children that night a huge, lifelong punishment...they have to live with that forever...

[Marsh.]

god, you have got it bad!

you cant do enough to make them out to be monsters,

they where not distressed when they left them, foreign country, yes a holiday resort, not war torn country.

it was not an 18 to 30 holiday and they where getting smashed every night.

how many parents are drunk or on drugs at night while in charge of their kids?
bloody thousands!

:conf: Of course they weren't.

That's like saying "You weren't crying BEFORE I kicked you in the leg".

They were put to sleep and then the adults went off to the restaurant.

A child then waking in the night being left in a dark apartment wondering where the hell their parents, the adults, their protectors are and crying because they don't know that they've just popped out for a meal then leaves them crying themselves back to sleep. We are talking about babies aged 3 and under.

[Niamh.]

..I do find it hard to understand them leaving the children alone and especially so after they said that she had woken up the night before and asked where they were..but I see them getting an equal if not more amount of criticism as they do any sympathy and on the Crimewatch interview, Kate volunteered the information that Madeleine had woken up the night before and hadn't liked them going out and leaving her alone..so in saying that..to the world...that's not really going to get any sympathy/understanding, is it..so I don't see that they do that, they just want to keep the case high profile....

EDIT:..but also, isn't losing Madeleine for their decision to leave the children that night a huge, lifelong punishment...they have to live with that forever...

It did sound as though by the way she said it that she was trying to make out that they were being extra vigilant in there checks that night because she said that which made me think they weren't checking as regularly the previous nights

[Vicky.]

It did sound as though by the way she said it that she was trying to make out that they were being extra vigilant in there checks that night because she said that which made me think they weren't checking as regularly the previous nights

They weren't

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id331.html#fenn1

She states that on the day of the 1st May 2007, when she was at home alone, at approximately 22H30 she heard a child cry, and that due the tone of the crying seemed to be a young child and not a baby of two years of age or younger.

Apart from the crying that continued for approximately one hour and fifteen minutes, and which got louder and more expressive, the child shouted "Daddy, Daddy", the witness had no doubt that the noise came from the floor below. At about 23H45, an hour and fifteen minutes after the crying began, she heard the parents arrive, she did not see them, but she heard the patio doors open, she was quite worried as the crying had gone on for more than an hour and had gradually got worse.

[Marsh.]

That sounds dodgy. Were they at the Tapas bar on those nights or further afield?

Because the 50 metre distance to the Tapas bar, surely they'd have heard crying?

[Kazanne]

On that note..in a daily mirror article today, the McCanns and the mother of James Bulger were compared :o

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/joan-burnie-kate-gerry-mccann-2457940#.Ul65TknRGXE.twitter

I hope she complains tbh. There is nothing similar abut momentarily losing track of your child and what they did.

James was with his mom,she took her eyes off him for a few minutes ,she was also with another adult who was outside with him who also got sidetracked for a couple on minutes,the scenario is totally different and imo it's totally obscene to compare them and I think Denise and Ralph have had enough upset and disappointment over James without being lumped in with the McCann arseholes.

[Vicky.]

James was with his mom,she took her eyes off him for a few minutes ,she was also with another adult who was outside with him who also got sidetracked for a couple on minutes,the scenario is totally different and imo it's totally obscene to compare them and I think Denise and Ralph have had enough upset and disappointment over James without being lumped in with the McCann arseholes.

Exactly. The huge majority of comments on the article say the same too. Very bad journalism.

[Ammi]

It did sound as though by the way she said it that she was trying to make out that they were being extra vigilant in there checks that night because she said that which made me think they weren't checking as regularly the previous nights

..that just seemed like the oddest thing to say when she didn't have to, it was a private conversation with Madeleine and a huge part of the public were already screaming 'bad parent'....to me it kind of made them look worse for leaving them that night...yeah, she could have said it to let people know they were being extra vigilant but if that was what she was doing, it seems almost like she's stupid not realise how bad it made them look, which would be odd if they were 'clever people' who had covered something up for all these years...

[Kazanne]

Exactly. The huge majority of comments on the article say the same too. Very bad journalism.

Extremely bad taste Vicky,I did wonder how long it would be for some idiot to do this.Grrrrr.I have HAD to respond to her.

[AnnieK]

Exactly. The huge majority of comments on the article say the same too. Very bad journalism.

Yeah, I can't see many people comparing the two cases....awful comparison

[chuff me dizzy]

They left Portugal straight after becoming suspects I think ( I might be wrong about that though)

The following day ,with Kate saying she would take lie detector test ......still waiting

[Cherie]

The following day ,with Kate saying she would take lie detector test ......still waiting

Can I ask Chuff what is the purpose of the group you belong to?


and to the previous posts comparing Jamie Bulger to Madeline is in very poor taste there is no comparison at all.

[Niamh.]

Can I ask Chuff what is the purpose of the group you belong to?


and to the previous posts comparing Jamie Bulger to Madeline is in very poor taste there is no comparison at all.

Yeah, I think every parent could sympathize and understand how you could take your eyes off a toddler for a minute which is why leaving toddlers unattended for as long a time as the McCanns did, knowing that bad things can happen to kids that young if you do take your eyes off them for even the shortest time, is unfathomable.

Also, the explanation for leaving the patio door unlocked was incase of fire that kids could get out I believe? How did they expect their 2 2 year olds to get out of their cots though?

[Cherie]

..yeah, that wasn't that many years ago either, was it..?...

I think it was last year Ammi.

[Kazanne]

Yeah, I think every parent could sympathize and understand how you could take your eyes off a toddler for a minute which is why leaving toddlers unattended for as long a time as the McCanns did, knowing that bad things can happen to kids that young if you do take your eyes off them for even the shortest time, is unfathomable.

Also, the explanation for leaving the patio door unlocked was incase of fire that kids could get out I believe? How did they expect their 2 2 year olds to get out of their cots though?

But didn't someone say that Madeline wasn't strong enough to open the patio doors,so they couldn't have got out anyway.

[Vicky.]

But didn't someone say that Madeline wasn't strong enough to open the patio doors,so they couldn't have got out anyway.

I believe that was one of the reasons given for how she had to have been abducted, and couldn't have just wandered off.

[Cherie]

Yeah, I think every parent could sympathize and understand how you could take your eyes off a toddler for a minute which is why leaving toddlers unattended for as long a time as the McCanns did, knowing that bad things can happen to kids that young if you do take your eyes off them for even the shortest time, is unfathomable.

Also, the explanation for leaving the patio door unlocked was incase of fire that kids could get out I believe? How did they expect their 2 2 year olds to get out of their cots though?



Sounds like BS!

[Kazanne]

I believe that was one of the reasons given for how she had to have been abducted, and couldn't have just wandered off.

That was it,it's all so confusing.

[chuff me dizzy]

And I wouldn't blame him, the Mc Canns are also close petsonal friends with Esther Mc Vey... so it's ensured the case will be kept alive.

She was on panel of"fund" shes resigned since, and Kate, Gerry are now in charge, THEY decide what the pensioners cash gets spent on ..... Mortgage payments and funding libel lawyers ,and even used to sue everyone who doesnt fall for their utter BS

[Cherie]

She was on panel of"fund" shes resigned since, and Kate, Gerry are now in charge, THEY decide what the pensioners cash gets spent on ..... Mortgage payments and funding libel lawyers ,and even used to sue everyone who doesnt fall for their utter BS

what pensioners? how do you know who donates to the fund :suspect:

[chuff me dizzy]

The fact the British government personally intervened on the behalf of the McCanns and their personal connections to Tony Blair and Gordon Brown makes me believe even more than while they may not necessarily be guilty of her accidental death and subsequent cover up; there is certainly some kind of sinister government involvement in all of this that wouldn't be the case if they were a family of street cleaners who went down to the pub and left their three children home alone.

Quite simply, they've been given special treatment because they were affluent white doctors in a foreign country and their little girl has a cute face. That's why it's become a media fixture and that's why they've been given special treatment. I believe them to be guilty of negligence regardless of what actually happened to Madeleine and I think it's shocking they've not been fined, if not jailed for the amount of police time, energy and money they've wasted on this case. It's not going to be solved unless Madeleine escapes or the person responsible comes forward - whether that's an abductor, or one of the McCanns themselves. Truly depressing. It's been six years, no one has any information, they should accept this and just hope that they'll have good news one day. People aren't going to remember something after 6 years that they didn't already know.

Read of Blairs ,Browns involvement in the case http://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.co.uk/2009/03/tony-blair-and-gordon-browns.html

[chuff me dizzy]

what pensioners? how do you know who donates to the fund :suspect:

Do you sleep well at night ? I know I wouldnt if I were bigging up child neglectors ...... MINIMUM

[Niamh.]

Do you sleep well at night ? I know I wouldnt if I were bigging up child neglectors ...... MINIMUM

I don't think Cherie has bigged up the McCanns at all tbf

[Cherie]

You're not keen on answering any of my questions are you Chuff?

[Cherie]

Do you sleep well at night ? I know I wouldnt if I were bigging up child neglectors ...... MINIMUM

Find me one of my posts where I have bigged them up.

[Marsh.]

and even used to sue everyone who doesnt fall for their utter BS

Bit of a difference between someone not believing their BS and writing books on how they have covered up the death of their own child.

[Lee.]

I have to say.. I hate seeing all this venom directed towards the McCanns, it makes me very uncomfortable.

I'm not saying they were right to leave their children unattended, but they must have felt it was safe to do so, and I'm positive they never for a second thought their daughter would be snatched.

They have to now spend their lives with that on their conscience and without their daughter, and I cannot imagine how they feel every morning when they open their eyes :(

[Marsh.]

I'm positive they never for a second thought their daughter would be snatched.

Well, of course they didn't. No one's saying they left them with knowledge someone would take them.

But not even thinking about the dangers of leaving your children unattended is bad in itself.

[MTVN]

I have to say.. I hate seeing all this venom directed towards the McCanns, it makes me very uncomfortable.

I'm not saying they were right to leave their children unattended, but they must have felt it was safe to do so, and I'm positive they never for a second thought their daughter would be snatched.

They have to now spend their lives with that on their conscience and without their daughter, and I cannot imagine how they feel every morning when they open their eyes :(

Agreed

[thesheriff443]

I have to say.. I hate seeing all this venom directed towards the McCanns, it makes me very uncomfortable.

I'm not saying they were right to leave their children unattended, but they must have felt it was safe to do so, and I'm positive they never for a second thought their daughter would be snatched.

They have to now spend their lives with that on their conscience and without their daughter, and I cannot imagine how they feel every morning when they open their eyes :(

this is how I feel!
people are just fanning the flames.

[Lee.]

Well, of course they didn't. No one's saying they left them with knowledge someone would take them.

But not even thinking about the dangers of leaving your children unattended is bad in itself.

At my sisters wedding, I fully intended putting my daughter in her cot in our hotel room when she fell asleep and we were all going to take turns checking in her... As it turns out, she fell asleep in her pram and seemed ok, so I didn't bother... But I honestly wouldn't have thought I was putting her in any danger at all!

[Z]

I have to say.. I hate seeing all this venom directed towards the McCanns, it makes me very uncomfortable.

I'm not saying they were right to leave their children unattended, but they must have felt it was safe to do so, and I'm positive they never for a second thought their daughter would be snatched.

They have to now spend their lives with that on their conscience and without their daughter, and I cannot imagine how they feel every morning when they open their eyes :(

That's how I felt until this recent Crimewatch program, at which point I re-examined the cold hard facts and changed my viewpoint. It wouldn't have happened if they hadn't routinely left their children alone in an unlocked apartment at night time. For that much alone they ought to be at least accepting some level of blame, publicly, but they never have.

[Z]

At my sisters wedding, I fully intended putting my daughter in her cot in our hotel room when she fell asleep and we were all going to take turns checking in her... As it turns out, she fell asleep in her pram and seemed ok, so I didn't bother... But I honestly wouldn't have thought I was putting her in any danger at all!

But would you have left the door unlocked?

[Lee.]

But would you have left the door unlocked?

No, of course not.. But somebody could have easily got in the window had they wanted to.. Obviously these things didn't even enter my mind until after maddie was taken..

[Vicky.]

I have to say.. I hate seeing all this venom directed towards the McCanns, it makes me very uncomfortable.

I'm not saying they were right to leave their children unattended, but they must have felt it was safe to do so, and I'm positive they never for a second thought their daughter would be snatched.

They have to now spend their lives with that on their conscience and without their daughter, and I cannot imagine how they feel every morning when they open their eyes :(

I used to feel like this until I read more about the case. I even donated once to the Madeleine fund (only a fiver but still a donation)

[Marsh.]

At my sisters wedding, I fully intended putting my daughter in her cot in our hotel room when she fell asleep and we were all going to take turns checking in her... As it turns out, she fell asleep in her pram and seemed ok, so I didn't bother... But I honestly wouldn't have thought I was putting her in any danger at all!

In a locked hotel room, in a cot which I presume the child could not get out of themselves. I presume if you went ahead with leaving your child you'd have thought about how safe your child was, took it into consideration and made a decision.

Versus an unsecure apartment with 2 babies and 1 toddler able to roam around, out of sight with easy access to the street in the middle of the night.

The entire circumstances of the McCann's 5 nights away doesn't sound like they were very mindful and took any serious precautions. They even said themselves they only thought to check the children at regular intervals on that night because of what Maddie said at breakfast, the other nights they left for a couple of hours.

It's bad parenting however you look at it.

[thesheriff443]

That's how I felt until this recent Crimewatch program, at which point I re-examined the cold hard facts and changed my viewpoint. It wouldn't have happened if they hadn't routinely left their children alone in an unlocked apartment at night time. For that much alone they ought to be at least accepting some level of blame, publicly, but they never have.

what do you what zee, an apology, that will make it all right will it?

[Cherie]

I have to say.. I hate seeing all this venom directed towards the McCanns, it makes me very uncomfortable.

I'm not saying they were right to leave their children unattended, but they must have felt it was safe to do so, and I'm positive they never for a second thought their daughter would be snatched.

They have to now spend their lives with that on their conscience and without their daughter, and I cannot imagine how they feel every morning when they open their eyes :(

I feel exactly the same I don't condone what they did, and I would never leave my belongings in an unlocked apartment never mind my children, but they did what they did and are suffering the consequences.

[Lee.]

In a locked hotel room, in a cot which I presume the child could not get out of themselves. I presume if you went ahead with leaving your child you'd have thought about how safe your child was, took it into consideration and made a decision.

Versus an unsecure apartment with 2 babies and 1 toddler able to roam around, out of sight with easy access to the street in the middle of the night.

The entire circumstances of the McCann's 5 nights away doesn't sound like they were very mindful and took any serious precautions. They even said themselves they only thought to check the children at regular intervals on that night because of what Maddie said at breakfast, the other nights they left for a couple of hours.

It's bad parenting however you look at it.

You don't think they regret that decision? God they must spend their days thinking "what if..." As I said I don't think what they did was right but I personally really really feel for them.

[Marsh.]

You don't think they regret that decision? God they must spend their days thinking "what if..." As I said I don't think what they did was right but I personally really really feel for them.

I never said they don't. I don't believe anyone can punish them more than they are being punished with the loss of a daughter.

I was referring to your comment about their actions at the time, there is no excuses for the decision they came to. No responsible parent would have reached the conclusion they did.

[Z]

No, of course not.. But somebody could have easily got in the window had they wanted to.. Obviously these things didn't even enter my mind until after maddie was taken..

But there's no evidence that an abductor came in through the window. They could have potentially opened the window and passed Madeleine out through it, but if there was an abductor, they came in through the door. The police concluded that the window hadn't been tampered with.

what do you what zee, an apology, that will make it all right will it?

I don't want anything, I'm just pointing out the undeniable truth that it is their fault that Madeleine McCann was alone and vulnerable and nobody else's fault. If they're guilty then they've taken the world for a ride, and if they're innocent they've certainly gone about it in the most unbelievably suspicious way. What concerned parent would refuse to answer police questions? What concerned parent would obstruct the police investigation into their daughter's disappearance?

[Vicky.]

I don't want anything, I'm just pointing out the undeniable truth that it is their fault that Madeleine McCann was alone and vulnerable and nobody else's fault. If they're guilty then they've taken the world for a ride, and if they're innocent they've certainly gone about it in the most unbelievably suspicious way. What concerned parent would refuse to answer police questions? What concerned parent would obstruct the police investigation into their daughter's disappearance?

Indeed. Even if you had been made a suspect at the time which was the excuse for not answering (it usually is a close family member in abduction cases..its really not uncommon to be a suspect) you would STILL do whatever it took to find your child. I would anyway :shrug:

[Lee.]

I never said they don't. I don't believe anyone can punish them more than they are being punished with the loss of a daughter.

I was referring to your comment about their actions at the time, there is no excuses for the decision they came to. No responsible parent would have reached the conclusion they did.

No, but harping on about it isn't going to help anybody.. Everybody, including her parents just want some sort of closure on this horrible tragic case.

[Marsh.]

No, but harping on about it isn't going to help anybody.. Everybody, including her parents just want some sort of closure on this horrible tragic case.

Who's harping on?

People are discussing the crimewatch, and all of the information surrounding the case including the facts brought up in the reconstruction.

If you don't like it, don't engage in it.

[Kazanne]

Well it seems to be the McCanns themselves who keep bringing it up,just sayin'

[Kizzy]

By holding yourself up for public scrutiny they or anyone cannot rightly expect the public not to pass comment on their personal view on the situation as it stood at the time.

[MTVN]

Indeed. Even if you had been made a suspect at the time which was the excuse for not answering (it usually is a close family member in abduction cases..its really not uncommon to be a suspect) you would STILL do whatever it took to find your child. I would anyway :shrug:

Tbh though looking at the questions a lot of them are pretty loaded and seem purely concerned with Kate as a suspect rather than helping the search, things that she could easily innocently trip herself up over like:

6. Why did you say from the start that Madeleine had been abducted?

11. Why did you go and warn your friends instead of shouting from the verandah?

16. What does 'we let her down' mean?

27. What was your behaviour that night?

38. At a certain point you stopped working, why?

etc. etc.

A lot of them are very vague and answering them wouldn't particularly help things, plus she was following the advice of her lawyer in not answering them

[Vicky.]

Tbh though looking at the questions a lot of them are pretty loaded and seem purely concerned with Kate as a suspect rather than helping the search, things that she could easily innocently trip herself up over like:

6. Why did you say from the start that Madeleine had been abducted?

11. Why did you go and warn your friends instead of shouting from the verandah?

16. What does 'we let her down' mean?

27. What was your behaviour that night?

38. At a certain point you stopped working, why?

etc. etc.

A lot of them are very vague and answering them wouldn't particularly help things, plus she was following the advice of her lawyer in not answering them
How on earth can you trip yourself up if you didnt do anything? :conf:

I dont see the problem with any of those questions either. Seem to be trying to understand her mindset more. I do remember thinking one of them as dodgy though when I read through them, as it pretty much asked if she killed her daughter. Pretty sure that was the final question

[GypsyGoth]

6. Why did you say from the start that Madeleine had been abducted?

That seems like a good question. It was mentioned in this thread that wouldn't someone's first thought be that the child had wandered off to try and find the missing parents. Rather than "they're taken her!"

11. Why did you go and warn your friends instead of shouting from the verandah?

Another good question. Although if her child was really missing without her knowledge, then I think shock can account for that.

[MTVN]

How on earth can you trip yourself up if you didnt do anything? :conf:

I dont see the problem with any of those questions either. Seem to be trying to understand her mindset more. I do remember thinking one of them as dodgy though when I read through them, as it pretty much asked if she killed her daughter. Pretty sure that was the final question

Because a lot of them are so vague that things can be twisted, and a lot of them also seem to imply her guilt already

[Marsh.]

How on earth can you trip yourself up if you didnt do anything? :conf:

Because with such vague questions, anything you say can be twisted to mean anything and once you've said it there's no going back. Which would be why the lawyer advised her to not say anything.

[Vicky.]

On May 3 2007, around 22:00, when you entered the apartment, what did you see? What did you do? Where did you look? What did you touch?

First question. Any problem with that? No loaded, cant trip self up etc.

Many more like that too..still unanswered for some reason or another
List of the questions for those who dont know

1. On May 3 2007, around 22:00, when you entered the apartment, what did you see? What did you do? Where did you look? What did you touch?

2. Did you search inside the bedroom wardrobe? (she replied that she wouldn’t answer)

3. (shown 2 photographs of her bedroom wardrobe) Can you describe its contents?

4. Why had the curtain behind the sofa in front of the side window (whose photo was shown to her) been tampered with? Did somebody go behind that sofa?

5. How long did your search of the apartment take after you detected your daughter Madeleine’s disappearance?

6. Why did you say from the start that Madeleine had been abducted?

7. Assuming Madeleine had been abducted, why did you leave the twins home alone to go to the ‘Tapas’ and raise the alarm? Because the supposed abductor could still be in the apartment.

8. Why didn’t you ask the twins, at that moment, what had happened to their sister or why didn’t you ask them later on?

9. When you raised the alarm at the ‘Tapas’ what exactly did you say and what were your exact words?

10. What happened after you raised the alarm in the ‘Tapas’?

11. Why did you go and warn your friends instead of shouting from the verandah?

12. Who contacted the authorities?

13. Who took place in the searches?

14. Did anyone outside of the group learn of Madeleine’s disappearance in those following minutes?

15. Did any neighbour offer you help after the disappearance?

16. What does 'we let her down' mean?

17. Did Jane tell you that night that she’d seen a man with a child?

18. How were the authorities contacted and which police force was alerted?

19. During the searches, with the police already there, where did you search for Maddie, how and in what way?

20. Why did the twins not wake up during that search or when they were taken upstairs?

21. Who did you phone after the occurrence?

22. Did you call Sky News?

23. Did you know the danger of calling the media, because it could influence the abductor?

24. Did you ask for a priest?

25. By what means did you divulge Madeleine’s features, by photographs or by any other means?

26. Is it true that during the searches you remained seated on Maddie’s bed without moving?

27. What was your behaviour that night?

28. Did you manage to sleep?

29. Before travelling to Portugal did you make any comment about a foreboding or a bad feeling?

30. What was Madeleine’s behaviour like?

31. Did Maddie suffer from any illness or take any medication?

32. What was Madeleine’s relationship like with her brother and sister?

33. What was Madeleine’s relationship like with her brother and sister, friends and school mates?

34. As for your professional life, in how many and which hospitals have you worked?

35. What is your medical specialty?

36. Have you ever done shift work in any emergency services or other services?

37. Did you work every day?

38. At a certain point you stopped working, why?

39. Are the twins difficult to get to sleep? Are they restless and does that cause you uneasiness?

40. Is it true that sometimes you despaired with your children’s behaviour and that left you feeling very uneasy?

41. Is it true that in England you even considered handing over Madeleine’s custody to a relative?

42. In England, did you medicate your children? What type of medication?

43. In the case files you were SHOWN CANINE forensic testing films, where you can see them marking due to detection of the scent of human corpse and blood traces, also human, and only human, as well as all the comments of the technician in charge of them. After watching and after the marking of the scent of corpse in your bedroom beside the wardrobe and behind the sofa, pushed up against the sofa wall, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?

44. When the sniffer dog also marked human blood behind the sofa, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?

45. When the sniffer dog marked the scent of corpse coming from the vehicle you hired a month after the disappearance, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?

46. When human blood was marked in the boot of the vehicle, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?

47. When confronted with the results of Maddie’s DNA, whose analysis was carried out in a British laboratory, collected from behind the sofa and the boot of the vehicle, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?

48. Did you have any responsibility or intervention in your daughter’s disappearance?

[Lee.]

Who's harping on?

People are discussing the crimewatch, and all of the information surrounding the case including the facts brought up in the reconstruction.

If you don't like it, don't engage in it.
But we all know the children were left in the apartment alone.. It's not right, but it happened...

[Marsh.]

But we all know the children were left in the apartment alone.. It's not right, but it happened...

Yes, it did. This thread is for discussing it and all of the details. I myself wasn't aware of Maddie's comments on the morning of the incident so have posted about it etc.

The case has been reopened and brought back into the public consciousness. If you don't want to discuss it, why are you in this thread? :conf:

[Vicky.]

But we all know the children were left in the apartment alone.. It's not right, but it happened...

Yes, thats not the only part of it though is it?

That said, the only facts are she was left alone and then she disappeared.

No evidence whatsoever of an abduction. No evidence of anything else.

[Ninastar]

6. Why did you say from the start that Madeleine had been abducted?

That seems like a good question. It was mentioned in this thread that wouldn't someone's first thought be that the child had wandered off to try and find the missing parents. Rather than "they're taken her!"

11. Why did you go and warn your friends instead of shouting from the verandah?

Another good question. Although if her child was really missing without her knowledge, then I think shock can account for that.

as for the first question, I think as a mother if your child wasn't in her bed and in a foreign place, you'd know. I'm not a mother obviously, but she said the window was wide open and she just 'knew'. i think i'd have felt the same.

and the next one, shock maybe? I don't think its that much of a big deal. get all of her friends to help find madeline and call the police? what good would shouting from the veranda do? surely you would rather go and look + get all of your friends too?

[MTVN]

On May 3 2007, around 22:00, when you entered the apartment, what did you see? What did you do? Where did you look? What did you touch?

First question. Any problem with that? No loaded, cant trip self up etc.

Many more like that too..still unanswered for some reason or another
List of the questions for those who dont know



But her lawyer probably told her that questions that rely on the presumption of guilt are not worth her answering, it's clear the intention of a lot of the questions is so that she will implicate herself, I'm not surprised she decided not to cooperate in an interrogation that she thinks should never have happened and is based on completely false premises

[Vicky.]

Of course the interrogation should have happened. In the huge majority of cases with an abduction, it turns out to be someone who knew the child rather than a stranger who took them. They/friends should have been the first suspects IMO. Then work from there :S

Edit. There is a chance I read your post wrong :laugh:

[Marsh.]

Of course the interrogation should have happened. In the huge majority of cases with an abduction, it turns out to be someone who knew the child rather than a stranger who took them. They/friends should have been the first suspects IMO. Then work from there :S

But I think there are better ways of doing that. Clarifying all of the details with them rather than phrasing questions to sound suspicious.

Asking her to go through exactly what happened from the moment she found Maddie missing until the police arrived is one thing, asking questions like "Why did you do this, instead of this?" is insinuating automatically that her actions were wrong and were wrong on purpose rather than due to shock or whatever.

Asking why she ran back to the restaurant is different to asking why not shout from the verandah instead.

[Jesus.]

It's also really unfair to assume how someone should act when under such pressure, suffering, guilt, and grief. It's impossible to say "well I'd do this", because until anyone walks a mile in those shoes (and I hope no one ever does), you have absolutely no idea where their heads must have been.

[MTVN]

Of course the interrogation should have happened. In the huge majority of cases with an abduction, it turns out to be someone who knew the child rather than a stranger who took them. They/friends should have been the first suspects IMO. Then work from there :S

Edit. There is a chance I read your post wrong :laugh:

To be a formal suspect you need to have some level of evidence or grounds for suspicion surely though? I'm not saying there wasn't cause for questioning her, but like Marsh said, from her point of view being treated as though you're guilty, which a lot of the questions seem to imply, would just be seen as seriously rubbing salt into the wounds

[Vicky.]

But I think there are better ways of doing that. Clarifying all of the details with them rather than phrasing questions to sound suspicious.

Asking her to go through exactly what happened from the moment she found Maddie missing until the police arrived is one thing, asking questions like "Why did you do this, instead of this?" is insinuating automatically that her actions were wrong and were wrong on purpose rather than due to shock or whatever.
The first question WAS that though. And it was still not answered.

I can sort of understand her refusing to answer ones that make her sound guilty.

Incidentally, I don't actually think Kate had anything to do with it. Its quite unfortunate that she acted in such a suspicious way.. :S

[Kizzy]

If a child of yours went missing would you get out and look for them?...

[Marsh.]

It's probably as MTVN said then, the lawyer advised to stay quiet because they were being interviewed as a suspect with no actual evidence to do it. But then, there is no substantial evidence for virtually any scenario.

[Vicky.]

It's probably as MTVN said then, the lawyer advised to stay quiet because they were being interviewed as a suspect with no actual evidence to do it. But then, there is no substantial evidence for virtually any scenario.

Her lawyer did advise that. As did Gerry's. Funnily enough, he ignored his lawyer.

[Kazanne]

If a child of yours went missing would you get out and look for them?...

I'de be out until I dropped Kizzy,I couldn't function normally,I'de be mortified so much so I don't think I'de want to live,the pain would be unbearable,I hate to even think about it,I don't know how people cope,I really don't.

[Marsh.]

Her lawyer did advise that. As did Gerry's. Funnily enough, he ignored his lawyer.

Well they do come across as very different people in regards to their personalities. She seems more timid, likely to listen. Gerry would do as he decides probably.

But yeah, I meant she followed his advise because she wasn't comfortable being a formal suspect as opposed to just helping clarify details for the investigation.

[GypsyGoth]

as for the first question, I think as a mother if your child wasn't in her bed and in a foreign place, you'd know. I'm not a mother obviously, but she said the window was wide open and she just 'knew'. i think i'd have felt the same.

and the next one, shock maybe? I don't think its that much of a big deal. get all of her friends to help find madeline and call the police? what good would shouting from the veranda do? surely you would rather go and look + get all of your friends too?

That does make sense.

And yea it does seem like a good idea to get the others. It is strange why she didn't want to answer the questions to the police.

Also maybe the McCanns just do things a bit odd, not that they're mental are anything, just maybe kinda eccentric.

[Ninastar]

That does make sense.

And yea it does seem like a good idea to get the others. It is strange why she didn't want to answer the questions to the police.

Also maybe the McCanns just do things a bit odd, not that they're mental are anything, just maybe kinda eccentric.

i think you're probably right. and i think losing a child might just do that to you ;)

[Lee.]

It's also really unfair to assume how someone should act when under such pressure, suffering, guilt, and grief. It's impossible to say "well I'd do this", because until anyone walks a mile in those shoes (and I hope no one ever does), you have absolutely no idea where their heads must have been.
I agree. I can't even imagine how I'd react

[GypsyGoth]

i think you're probably right. and i think losing a child might just do that to you ;)

Very true :D but I mean also before this whole event. Like maybe they weren't the most normal of couples to begin with.

[Josy]

No, but harping on about it isn't going to help anybody.. Everybody, including her parents just want some sort of closure on this horrible tragic case.

The McCanns want people to discuss it that's the whole point of the Crime watch special the other night.

as for the first question, I think as a mother if your child wasn't in her bed and in a foreign place, you'd know. I'm not a mother obviously, but she said the window was wide open and she just 'knew'. i think i'd have felt the same.

and the next one, shock maybe? I don't think its that much of a big deal. get all of her friends to help find madeline and call the police? what good would shouting from the veranda do? surely you would rather go and look + get all of your friends too?

That's a decent point that plenty have brought up before and some would say a parent would just know/have a feeling but if like she said she knew as soon as she saw the empty bed that her daughter had been 'taken' then why did she waste the next 5/10 minutes searching the apartment 3 or more times instead of alerting everyone?

As for the next point well if I thought someone had just taken off with my daughter then there is no way in this world I would leave my other 2 children sleeping alone in that apartment.

Saying all that though, everyone of course will react differently in situations and maybe that's just the way she is but surely people can then see why some will question the things they have done after the disappearance.

[the truth]

It's also really unfair to assume how someone should act when under such pressure, suffering, guilt, and grief. It's impossible to say "well I'd do this", because until anyone walks a mile in those shoes (and I hope no one ever does), you have absolutely no idea where their heads must have been.

ha you make absurd assumptions all the time.....we are dealing with the FACT these 3 children were neglected abroad and one of them died because of this, you seem to ignore this tragedy, which comes across as incredibly cold blooded of you

[Ninastar]

I agree. I can't even imagine how I'd react

cant find the original quote but this is exactly how I feel.

who are we to judge? And the fact that the press pretty much openly pointed the finger at them numerous times throughout the case doesn't help. They probably thought that no matter what they said, would be twisted to sound awful. Which, wait a second... happened anyway!?

[Marsh.]

why did she waste the next 5/10 minutes searching the apartment 3 or more times instead of alerting everyone?

Hoping she was wrong? I would guess she'd be in immediate shock and not wanting it to be true.

[Ninastar]

ha you make absurd assumptions all the time.....we are dealing with the FACT these 3 children were neglected abroad and one of them died because of this, you seem to ignore this tragedy, which comes across as incredibly cold blooded of you

thing is, he's not ignoring the tragedy... he's being completely rational? No one here is saying the parents weren't neglectful. I'm pretty sure everyone here would admit hands down that what they did was bloody awful and entirely their fault that she disappeared. But to call someone cold blooded because they don't think that people should point their fingers and accuse Maddie's parents of kidnap/murder etc... it's just as much of an absurd assumption as you're accusing him of.

btw, saying she is dead is also an assumption. No one knows what has happened to her, hence being world wide news.

[Josy]

Hoping she was wrong? I would guess she'd be in immediate shock and not wanting it to be true.

Maybe? That's what I meant with my post, some people will question a lot of the things they have done because there is so many details and statements that have been changed over the years.

Just for an example...Kate said the reason she knew straight away her daughter was gone was because the window was left open but then they later changed the statement to something else.

[Vicky.]

thing is, he's not ignoring the tragedy... he's being completely rational? No one here is saying the parents weren't neglectful. I'm pretty sure everyone here would admit hands down that what they did was bloody awful and entirely their fault that she disappeared. But to call someone cold blooded because they don't think that people should point their fingers and accuse Maddie's parents of kidnap/murder etc... it's just as much of an absurd assumption as you're accusing him of.

btw, saying she is dead is also an assumption. No one knows what has happened to her, hence being world wide news.

We have actually had a few people throughout the thread talking about how it wasnt that bad, same as nipping to the shop, not their fault, could happen to anyone..etc. Along with the parents saying on CM that they did nothing wrong. This is why people comment on how it IS neglect, they are awful parents, and it was their fault.

[Ninastar]

We have actually had a few people throughout the thread talking about how it wasnt that bad, same as nipping to the shop, not their fault, could happen to anyone..etc. Along with the parents saying on CM that they did nothing wrong. This is why people comment on how it IS neglect, they are awful parents, and it was their fault.

ah right, didn't realise. sorry about that. just didnt want to go back 25 pages :p

No, i totally think it's their fault she went missing. i dont see how anyone can deny that. but to say they kidnapped her/murdered her, in my opinion, is absurd. but each to their own.

[Niamh.]

ah right, didn't realise. sorry about that. just didnt want to go back 25 pages :p

No, i totally think it's their fault she went missing. i dont see how anyone can deny that. but to say they kidnapped her/murdered her, in my opinion, is absurd. but each to their own.

I wouldn't say it's absurd, in a lot of cases to do with children being harmed/going missing etc it's a relative/friend of the family

[Vicky.]

I wouldn't say it's absurd, in a lot of cases to do with children being harmed/going missing etc it's a relative/friend of the family

And there is the same amount of actual evidence for the parents having something to do with it as there is for an abduction too...none

[Ninastar]

I wouldn't say it's absurd, in a lot of cases to do with children being harmed/going missing etc it's a relative/friend of the family

yeah, I know that, but I can't imagine anyone alerting the press and making it such a worldwide search if they were the ones who had done it.

[Niamh.]

yeah, I know that, but I can't imagine anyone alerting the press and making it such a worldwide search if they were the ones who had done it.

remember Shannon Matthews?

[the truth]

thing is, he's not ignoring the tragedy... he's being completely rational? No one here is saying the parents weren't neglectful. I'm pretty sure everyone here would admit hands down that what they did was bloody awful and entirely their fault that she disappeared. But to call someone cold blooded because they don't think that people should point their fingers and accuse Maddie's parents of kidnap/murder etc... it's just as much of an absurd assumption as you're accusing him of.

btw, saying she is dead is also an assumption. No one knows what has happened to her, hence being world wide news.

I don't think he is rational at all, he just gets off on being cold blooded and playing with peoples emotions, its horrible. This was beyond neglect, they should have been thoroughly investigated by social services for starters. Oh and by the way no one here is accusing them of murder are they, so why are you misquoting people here? People are saying for the 100th time, they should be investigated more thoroughly and that much of their story didn't add up. Also that these kids were neglected it seems for years leading up to this tragedy. Lets hope if anything comes from this avoidable tragedy, that parents never again behave with such gross negligence when taking small children abroad

[Vicky.]

http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/crimewatch-aired-in-uk-ireland-netherlands-germany-but-why-not-portugal/29659

The Deputy Director of News at Sic Television was meanwhile reported to have exchanged e-mails with the BBC in the days running up to the Crimewatch programme in order to secure the rights to the full programme, but to no avail.
“The BBC said they are not selling the rights”, Martim Cabral told The Portugal News, “therefore we cannot show it.”
Another Portuguese news channel, TVI, told The Portugal News that it had contacted the British national broadcaster prior to the airing of the show, as it sought to “acquire the programme for Portugal, which was denied.”
“Should the BBC change its position and should TVI continue to show an interest, it is certain that we will look at transmitting the programme in question.
“TVI has also requested the BBC clarify this situation with British media to avoid more erroneous interpretations, such as those claiming Portuguese television channels are not interested in transmitting the programme.”

Quite strange. Surely the best thing for the investigation is to broadcast in the country that it happened in :S

Our papers say Portugal CHOSE not to broadcast it.

[Kizzy]

Hmm, the whole thing is just so odd... you can forgive some for suspecting foul play as this is not a very clear cut case is it?

[Ninastar]

remember Shannon Matthews?

i do. but again, i do not believe the parents are involved at all, and i personally think it's crazy to think so.

but that's just me. no sense in trying to change my opinion on it. i know there are some god-awful parents out there, i just don't think these ones are bad enough to kill/abduct madeline.

[Z]

i do. but again, i do not believe the parents are involved at all, and i personally think it's crazy to think so.

but that's just me. no sense in trying to change my opinion on it. i know there are some god-awful parents out there, i just don't think these ones are bad enough to kill/abduct madeline.

I don't either, but I do think they're foolish enough to neglect their children, come home to discover a tragic accident and are smart enough to cover it up and pull off a bold lie.

I don't want to believe that that is what happened, but I just can't find any other logic that explains why they've obstructed the police's attempts to find their missing daughter other than because they've got something to hide. :/

[MTVN]

I don't either, but I do think they're foolish enough to neglect their children, come home to discover a tragic accident and are smart enough to cover it up and pull off a bold lie.

I don't want to believe that that is what happened, but I just can't find anything other logic that explains why they've obstructed the police's attempts to find their missing daughter other than because they've got something to hide. :/

I would say the time and effort they have put in to keep this case so high profile and the encouragement they have given for the authorities to continue to look in to it outweighs any of their actions that could possibly be seen as obstructive though (and most of these I think there is generally a logical explanation for)

[Lee.]

The McCanns want people to discuss it that's the whole point of the Crime watch special the other night.

I was talking about those who just keep going on and on about the children being left alone in their apartment. I am fully aware of why they did the crime watch programme and it wasn't for the public and the media to have yet another pop at their parenting skills and lay the blame of their daughters abduction on them.

[Kizzy]

The children being alone is by and large the only reason there is a case here initially, that has to be addressed.
There is just so much emphasis on court cases against detectives and book launches...
I wonder how much of this is for the right reason?
And as has been said it's not unheard of for those close to victims to be found to be instrumental in their disappearance.

[Z]

I was talking about those who just keep going on and on about the children being left alone in their apartment. I am fully aware of why they did the crime watch programme and it wasn't for the public and the media to have yet another pop at their parenting skills and lay the blame of their daughters abduction on them.

I know, but they've raked up the entire case with this program to try and bolster their efforts to find her and because they made such a spectacle out of it all (which I think is good and bad in equal measure), it comes with the territory.

[Lee.]

The children being alone is by and large the only reason there is a case here initially, that has to be addressed.
There is just so much emphasis on court cases against detectives and book launches...
I wonder how much of this is for the right reason?
And as has been said it's not unheard of for those close to victims to be found to be instrumental in their disappearance.

No, the reason there is a case, is because some bastard wanted to steal a child for whatever reason. Ok, the McCanns made themselves an easy target, but I honestly believe that whoever took her would have taken a child at some time from somewhere in that area .. I think the McCanns were probably watched for nights before the abduction took place.

[Lee.]

I know, but they've raked up the entire case with this program to try and bolster their efforts to find her and because they made such a spectacle out of it all (which I think is good and bad in equal measure), it comes with the territory.

Yes, but slagging off their patenting skills isn't helping anybody .. There's a child missing and whether she's alive or dead, bitching about her parents is not going to help find her, and was not the purpose of the crime watch programmeh.

[Josy]

I was talking about those who just keep going on and on about the children being left alone in their apartment. I am fully aware of why they did the crime watch programme and it wasn't for the public and the media to have yet another pop at their parenting skills and lay the blame of their daughters abduction on them.

That is always going to be brought up in relation to it though Lee because if the kids weren't alone none of it would ever have happened.

[Lee.]

That is always going to be brought up in relation to it though Lee because if the kids weren't alone none of it would ever have happened.

I think it would have. I don't know if somebody was paid to take her, if they wanted Madeleine specifically, or if it was a paedophile ring or gypsies.. But I do think that somebody was intent on snatching a child and unfortunately the McCanns made it easy for them.

[Kizzy]

No, the reason there is a case, is because some bastard wanted to steal a child for whatever reason. Ok, the McCanns made themselves an easy target, but I honestly believe that whoever took her would have taken a child at some time from somewhere in that area .. I think the McCanns were probably watched for nights before the abduction took place.

The abduction senario is only one theory...

[Z]

Yes, but slagging off their patenting skills isn't helping anybody .. There's a child missing and whether she's alive or dead, bitching about her parents is not going to help find her, and was not the purpose of the crime watch programmeh.

That's very true. I think I'll try to avoid this thread now, as of course you're correct, criticising the McCanns isn't going to bring back their daughter. I'm surprised that they aren't airing the program in Portugal... it's surely more important to be broadcasting it there than over here?

[Lee.]

The abduction senario is only one theory...

It's the only theory I believe.. And the only one I find possible

[Kizzy]

With a distinct lack of evidence tying anyone else to the scene that's hard to prove lee.
I wish we knew what happened to poor maddie, imaginations run riot when there are 101 possibilities.

[Kizzy]

It does sound incredible and heinous, but stranger things have happened.
Read some of the links provided some are really eye opening lee, you begin to see odd little things that make you wonder.

[Ammi]

remember Shannon Matthews?

..that's a good point because I was thinking about her after the Crimewatch programme and also other cases when parents/step-parents/family members etc have appeared on TV to make a 'plea' when a child has gone missing and I know this is just a really small thing and just a personal thing but when that happens and then eventually we find out that they were the ones responsible/guilty of a crime..?...they've always or usually appeared in the public appeal to be extremely upset and emotional...like an 'act' of trying to maybe not be suspects themselves....but with Kate, she's always tried to control herself and doing that can appear 'cold' and I think right from the start when Madeleine went missing, somehow the public didn't like that and felt she hadn't acted the way they would have expected and therefore must be guilty of something..and since then the evidence has been very inconsistent...so it kind of hasn't changed those opinions since...just because there is no firm/conclusive evidence to say the parents weren't involved...but there's equally none to say they were...

[Nedusa]

I wonder if there is any truth in one of the rumours discussed earlier in this thread that the Reason there are so many inconsistencies with this story is that Gerry McCann alone knows the real story behind Maddie's death but Kate truly thinks it was an abduction.

This would account for why she wants the investigation into her daughters disappearance to continue yet Gerry knows the real story . Perhaps he sedated her and found her body having accidentally given her an overdose. Perhaps he panicked and invented the abduction story to hide his actions from his wife.

Perhaps he has come to terms with his daughters death and has moved on , going back to work etc, but Kate still thinks Maddie is out there and possibly alive.

I know this is the worst of all scenarios and he would truly be nothing short of a callous monster to keep this dark truth from his wife and let her continue to believe that Maddie is possibly still alive.

[Cherie]

I wonder if there is any truth in one of the rumours discussed earlier in this thread that the Reason there are so many inconsistencies with this story is that Gerry McCann alone knows the real story behind Maddie's death but Kate truly thinks it was an abduction.

This would account for why she wants the investigation into her daughters disappearance to continue yet Gerry knows the real story . Perhaps he sedated her and found her body having accidentally given her an overdose. Perhaps he panicked and invented the abduction story to hide his actions from his wife.

Perhaps he has come to terms with his daughters death and has moved on , going back to work etc, but Kate still thinks Maddie is out there and possibly alive.

I know this is the worst of all scenarios and he would truly be nothing short of a callous monster to keep this dark truth from his wife and let her continue to believe that Maddie is possibly still alive.

He is up there with the worlds most cold blooded killers if he pulled off hiding Maddie's body during his check of the children, and then calmly returned and resumed his dinner like nothing had happened. I really can't give that theory any credence whatsoever.

[Niamh.]

i do. but again, i do not believe the parents are involved at all, and i personally think it's crazy to think so.

but that's just me. no sense in trying to change my opinion on it. i know there are some god-awful parents out there, i just don't think these ones are bad enough to kill/abduct madeline.

No, that's fair enough, they may have had nothing at all to do with it, this is all speculation on a very mysterious case

[Niamh.]

I was talking about those who just keep going on and on about the children being left alone in their apartment. I am fully aware of why they did the crime watch programme and it wasn't for the public and the media to have yet another pop at their parenting skills and lay the blame of their daughters abduction on them.

I wonder though if the parents had been of a lower class and had went out to the pub rather than a restaurant would anyone be defending them or asking people to stop going on about that part?

[user104658]

Yes, but slagging off their patenting skills isn't helping anybody .. There's a child missing and whether she's alive or dead, bitching about her parents is not going to help find her, and was not the purpose of the crime watch programmeh.

Madeleine McCann is almost certainly dead, and either way will never be found. If "bitching" about her parents, and pointing out that what they did is not OK, not an acceptable level of parenting, selfish and careless is taken on board by one other parent or prospective parent who might then think twice about endangering their own children in the same way...

...then it is the ONLY thing that is helping anyone.

All there is left in the McCann case of any worth, is lessons to be learned by those who have children to care for.

[Jesus.]

Madeleine McCann is almost certainly dead, and either way will never be found. If "bitching" about her parents, and pointing out that what they did is not OK, not an acceptable level of parenting, selfish and careless is taken on board by one other parent or prospective parent who might then think twice about endangering their own children in the same way...

...then it is the ONLY thing that is helping anyone.

All there is left in the McCann case of any worth, is lessons to be learned by those who have children to care for.

That just highlights how twisted this case is. Constantly bitching about her parents is equally as useful as remaining silent. It really doesn't serve any purpose other than making some people whom are not related to the investigation in any way, feel as though they're the ones who have the truth, and everyone else is wrong.

I'm sure they beat themselves up everyday about leaving their children alone that night, and if anyone thinks they can compete with their consciences, then they are sadly mistaken.

[user104658]

That just highlights how twisted this case is. Constantly bitching about her parents is equally as useful as remaining silent. It really doesn't serve any purpose other than making some people whom are not related to the investigation in any way, feel as though they're the ones who have the truth, and everyone else is wrong.

I'm sure they beat themselves up everyday about leaving their children alone that night, and if anyone thinks they can compete with their consciences, then they are sadly mistaken.

I can only assume you didn't read the post? It's not about "the real truth" - it applies even if what they're saying is 100% true. It's not about them beating themselves up or punishing themselves either. It's not about them AT ALL.

It's about not shying away from the fact that what they did was reckless, selfish and borderline neglectful. It's about refusing to further the myth that its not partially their fault due to a parental failure. It's about not letting selfish parenting become "normal" - not sitting silently while people pretend that what they did is in any way within the bounds of bare-minimum responsible parenting, not saying "what they did was fine, they just got unlucky" because it's bull****. They failed their child and SHE paid the ultimate price, not them. If saying that out loud as often and as loudly as you can means there's even SLIGHTLY less chance of other parents failing their children in similar ways, then it's worth saying. And if the McCanns happen to stumble across these sorts comments and "feel bad", then I'm afraid that's a price more than worth paying. Because its not about them or their feelings. In the context of what potentially happened to that girl - things that are unspeakably worse than her dying a covered up accident - their feelings are utterly irrelevant.

It's just an extreme example of the same **** I've been encountering for years. You can't criticise a parent, a grown adult, for ANYTHING that might "make them feel bad", even if that criticism being public might help countless children. Oh no. We must preserve "peoples feelings" at all costs. It's bull****.

[Jesus.]

I can only assume you didn't read the post? It's not about "the real truth" - it applies even if what they're saying is 100% true. It's not about them beating themselves up or punishing themselves either. It's not about them AT ALL.

It's about not shying away from the fact that what they did was reckless, selfish and borderline neglectful. It's about refusing to further the myth that its not partially their fault due to a parental failure. It's about not letting selfish parenting become "normal" - not sitting silently while people pretend that what they did is in any way within the bounds of bare-minimum responsible parenting, not saying "what they did was fine, they just got unlucky" because it's bull****. They failed their child and SHE paid the ultimate price, not them. If saying that out loud as often and as loudly as you can means there's even SLIGHTLY less chance of other parents failing their children in similar ways, then it's worth saying. And if the McCanns happen to stumble across these sorts comments and "feel bad", then I'm afraid that's a price more than worth paying. Because its not about them or their feelings. In the context of what potentially happened to that girl - things that are unspeakably worse than her dying a covered up accident - their feelings are utterly irrelevant.

It's just an extreme example of the same **** I've been encountering for years. You can't criticise a parent, a grown adult, for ANYTHING that might "make them feel bad", even if that criticism being public might help countless children. Oh no. We must preserve "peoples feelings" at all costs. It's bull****.

Oh no, I did read your post. I don't think (or at least I don't remember seeing) anyone at all has said they were right to leave their children like that, but then what?

What comes after that? I'm sure what they did that night has altered the way many people parent. I'm sure these weren't the only couples in Portugal that night doing that kind of thing, and they definitely weren't the only people in the world doing it. I'm not a parent, and I often admire parents of young children that get anything done at all. I'd be a nervous wreck.

What they did was negligent, no argument, and no one is defending them on the basis of saving their feelings, and the government didn't get involved to help protect them, and there is no evidence of foul play. They made a decision that has 99.9% cost their child her life.

I believe she was abducted, as there is genuinely no good reason or evidence to believe anything else, and unless there is someone out there willing to steal a child for sexual reasons, or because someone can't conceive, then this doesn't happen.

With the numbers of people in the world, there are bound to be some loonies out there. We all hope that we manage to get through life without their paths ever crossing the paths of the people we love, but not every family will get their wish. Bad s**t happens in the world.

[lostalex]

I have absolutely no desire to travel to most foreign countries. ever. Definitely none that don't speak english.

I don't even want to travel to most places in my own country.

The only foreign countries i'd go to are Canada, UK, Australia, NZ, and Ireland.

[chuff me dizzy]

James was with his mom,she took her eyes off him for a few minutes ,she was also with another adult who was outside with him who also got sidetracked for a couple on minutes,the scenario is totally different and imo it's totally obscene to compare them and I think Denise and Ralph have had enough upset and disappointment over James without being lumped in with the McCann arseholes.

No comparison at all Jamie was lucky to have good parents ,and the fact his evil killers are now walking streets Denise and Ralph are still fighting and must be living a life of hell knowing their little boy will never walk the streets like they do, From early days McCanns have jumped into every other missing child case they can ,they jumped on the bandwagon of a GENUINE missing little girl called Mari Luz even going so far as to make posters showing both girls together, until her parents told them to remove them all

[chuff me dizzy]

I wonder if there is any truth in one of the rumours discussed earlier in this thread that the Reason there are so many inconsistencies with this story is that Gerry McCann alone knows the real story behind Maddie's death but Kate truly thinks it was an abduction.

This would account for why she wants the investigation into her daughters disappearance to continue yet Gerry knows the real story . Perhaps he sedated her and found her body having accidentally given her an overdose. Perhaps he panicked and invented the abduction story to hide his actions from his wife.

Perhaps he has come to terms with his daughters death and has moved on , going back to work etc, but Kate still thinks Maddie is out there and possibly alive.

I know this is the worst of all scenarios and he would truly be nothing short of a callous monster to keep this dark truth from his wife and let her continue to believe that Maddie is possibly still alive.

Kates clothes had Maddie cadaver on them ,she knows exactly what happened

[chuff me dizzy]

Yes, it did. This thread is for discussing it and all of the details. I myself wasn't aware of Maddie's comments on the morning of the incident so have posted about it etc.

The case has been reopened and brought back into the public consciousness. If you don't want to discuss it, why are you in this thread? :conf:

Not reopened its being reviewed ,the case was never closed in the first place, it is shelved and Kate could have the case reopened today if she rang Pj and agreed to answer the questions as it would be classed as new evidence .you need to ask why she doesnt

[Marsh.]

Kates clothes had Maddie cadaver on them ,she knows exactly what happened

Cadaver? It was just traces of blood wasn't it? That's no proof of Kate being near her corpse.

[Josy]

Cadaver? It was just traces of blood wasn't it? That's no proof of Kate being near her corpse.

No there was Cadaver scent on Kate's clothes and Maddies soft toy, she said it was on her clothes because of the job she done before she went on holiday and that the scent was on the soft toy because she took that to work with her.

[Jesus.]

No there was Cadaver scent on Kate's clothes and Maddies soft toy, she said it was on her clothes because of the job she done before she went on holiday and that the scent was on the soft toy because she took that to work with her.

Have you got those quotes?

[Josy]

Have you got those quotes?

The original site bandwidth is exceeded since last night but here is another one from google.

Kate McCann explains smell of cadaver on her clothes

Kate McCann justified the smell of a cadaver detected by the British specially trained dog on her pair of jeans, t-shirt and on the pink toy from Madeleine because, as a doctor, she was present in several death incidents, while in the UK, before coming to Portugal on holidays, according to today's edition of Correio da Manhã. She said that, as a doctor in Leicester, she faced at least six of those situations, in the months before coming to Portugal. The pink toy, she said, has been with her on her working place, several times.

http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.co.uk/2007/09/kate-mccann-explains-smell-of-cadaver.html

[Jesus.]

Cheers, I didn't realise she'd ever tried to provide any kind of explanation for that. I'll have a read.

[Josy]

This is where I read it

http://www.cwporter.com/mccann.htm

There is a lot more info on there but the bandwidth has been exceeded so I'm not sure if they will get it back up and running or not.

[chuff me dizzy]

Niamh i found this for you, I was going to Pm you it, but thought others may want to watch it too


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEGRfyQq2yU




Take close notice of 4.58 where Gerry claims poice dogs totally unrealiable, the dogs to date have an 100% record

6.19 Why did Gerry throw dummy out of his pram when cornered by a perfectly suitable question ?

7.19 the secret film of "devastated Gerry "was taken 6 DAYS after Maddies

9.00 crying interview notice all Kates tongue clicking ,no eye contact demise

[Jesus.]

Niamh i found this for you, I was going to Pm you it, but thought others may want to watch it too


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEGRfyQq2yU




Take close notice of 4.58 where Gerry claims poice dogs totally unrealiable, the dogs to date have an 100% record

6.19 Why did Gerry throw dummy out of his pram when cornered by a perfectly suitable question ?

7.19 the secret film of "devastated Gerry "was taken 6 DAYS after Maddies

9.00 crying interview notice all Kates tongue clicking ,no eye contact demise

There is absolutely nothing, other than the claims of the handler that verifies a 100% hit rate. And a court in the US accepted proof that dogs were no more than 30-40% accurate. There is loads of stuff about the dogs that is completely different from the claims being made against the mccanns.

[Niamh.]

Thanks Chuff. I was doing a little bit of reading on it and tbh I'm not sure the dogs prove anything :

http://exposingthemyths.blogspot.ie/2012/07/analogy-why-cadaver-dogs-are-not.html

[Lee.]

I'm not sure if I'm right, but can't the smell of a dead body remain on items for months, maybe years even after being washed? If this is the case, Kate's explanation is very believable. She's bound to have been in contact with dead bodies on many occasions?

[Josy]

I'm not sure if I'm right, but can't the smell of a dead body remain on items for months, maybe years even after being washed? If this is the case, Kate's explanation is very believable. She's bound to have been in contact with dead bodies on many occasions?

You have to be in contact with a dead body for something like one hour thirty minutes before the smell can attach to you apparently, I wasn't aware GP's stayed with a body for hours to pronounce a death.

Added to that Kate supposedly only worked 1 and a half days per week.

But yeah I suppose her explanation for her clothes is believable the only thing I would think strange then is that doctors normally don't wear jeans to work and that she took her work clothes on holiday.

The explanation about the teddy is a little more unbelievable.

[chuff me dizzy]

Thanks Chuff. I was doing a little bit of reading on it and tbh I'm not sure the dogs prove anything :

http://exposingthemyths.blogspot.ie/2012/07/analogy-why-cadaver-dogs-are-not.html

Niamh you are on a pro site there, well known for lies ,this has links to unbiased reports on the dogs used in case please scroll down and read all the references to them ,not by Maddie defenders by police and F.B.I http://www.mccannfiles.com/id157.html

[Niamh.]

Niamh you are on a pro site there, well known for lies ,this has links to unbiased reports on the dogs used in case please scroll down and read all the references to them ,not by Maddie defenders by police and F.B.I http://www.mccannfiles.com/id157.html

Yeah, there's so much stuff out there it's difficult to know which ones are accurate and which ones are not

[Josy]

I was reading something interesting earlier, on one of those websites they were claiming it was strange that the McCanns were so quick to have images ready to hand out and that that was suspicious behaviour etc...but then reading another link to witness statements (I think the one that Vicky posted) blew that accusation right out the water because one of the hotel managers actually says in her statement that she went to get her printer, carried it back and used the McCanns memory card to do the printouts.

That just shows how some of the websites fabricate things to further their own points.

[Cherie]

I was reading something interesting earlier, on one of those websites they were claiming it was strange that the McCanns were so quick to have images ready to hand out and that that was suspicious behaviour etc...but then reading another link to witness statements (I think the one that Vicky posted) blew that accusation right out the water because one of the hotel managers actually says in her statement that she went to get her printer, carried it back and used the McCanns memory card to do the printouts.

That just shows how some of the websites fabricate things to further their own points.



The amount of misinformation and contradictory reports on the case is criminal in itself. I wish there was a way of prosecuting people for disseminating incorrect information it would stop a lot of the internet detectives in their tracks.

[Josy]

[/B]

The amount of misinformation and contradictory reports on the case is criminal in itself. I wish there was a way of prosecuting people for disseminating incorrect information it would stop a lot of the internet detectives in their tracks.

Yeah that's why I'm finding reading all these websites so interesting, you can read something as absolute proof on one then the next one you read completely tears it apart with a rational explanation.

[lostalex]

I don't think they killed their own daughter. don't they have other kids? why would they only kill maddie and not kill the other kids too?

[Jesus.]

[/B]

The amount of misinformation and contradictory reports on the case is criminal in itself. I wish there was a way of prosecuting people for disseminating incorrect information it would stop a lot of the internet detectives in their tracks.

I know a lot of people are genuinely interested and asking questions to find out more information, but it's the certainty that the McCanns are guilty in some quarters of the internet that is sickening. They've already decided the outcome, so now they only read the information that gets them there, and call everything else lies, media spin, and government protection. Complete confirmation bias.

[Lee.]

I was given a book re the maddie case recently. It's apparently banned here and I was assured that after reading it, I'd be certain of the McCanns guilt.. I read most of it and can honestly say I've her read so much **** in my life. Pure propaganda and supposition.
I genuinely believe the Portuguese police were under immense pressure from the media to name a suspect, they couldn't, so pointed the finger at the parents.

[Ninastar]

I agree lee.

[Cherie]

I know a lot of people are genuinely interested and asking questions to find out more information, but it's the certainty that the McCanns are guilty in some quarters of the internet that is sickening. They've already decided the outcome, so now they only read the information that gets them there, and call everything else lies, media spin, and government protection. Complete confirmation bias.

Yep.

[lostalex]

This case makes me think of the Amanda Knox case. The witch hunt aspect I mean.

[Nedusa]

So after 672 posts what have we learned ? Are we any further forward or like most people are we as puzzled and perplexed as ever at this case .

I just wish one piece of major incontrovertible evidence could be found which at least narrows down the options and at least points firmly to one particular theory.

Currently it's just speculation and guesswork..!!!

[Jesus.]

Do you know what shocks me the most?


Lee can read?

[Cherie]

So after 672 posts what have we learned ? Are we any further forward or like most people are we as puzzled and perplexed as ever at this case .

I just wish one piece of major incontrovertible evidence could be found which at least narrows down the options and at least points firmly to one particular theory.

Currently it's just speculation and guesswork..!!!

Well yes but unfortunately not everyone holds this view, in some quarters, the case has been cracked and they are ready to send them down.

[AnnieK]

[/B]

Well yes but unfortunately not everyone holds this view, in some quarters, the case has been cracked and they are ready to send them down.

There are an awful lot of discrepancies and what ifs but you do have to hold on to the fact that it is innocent until proven guilty...

[Marsh.]

No there was Cadaver scent on Kate's clothes and Maddies soft toy, she said it was on her clothes because of the job she done before she went on holiday and that the scent was on the soft toy because she took that to work with her.

Ah. Bit odd that she'd have the soft toy not only in work but in the vicinity to come onto contact with a dead body.

The original site bandwidth is exceeded since last night but here is another one from google.

http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.co.uk/2007/09/kate-mccann-explains-smell-of-cadaver.html

Thanks for the link.

I know a lot of people are genuinely interested and asking questions to find out more information, but it's the certainty that the McCanns are guilty in some quarters of the internet that is sickening. They've already decided the outcome, so now they only read the information that gets them there, and call everything else lies, media spin, and government protection. Complete confirmation bias.

I agree tbh.

[Kizzy]

I don't agree... I think being led by the nose is sickening, nobody educates themselves anymore we are spoonfed the information it is deemed appropriate for us to have and nothing more.
I think it's important to retain as much individuality and impartiality as possible.

[Marsh.]

I don't agree... I think being led by the nose is sickening, nobody educates themselves anymore we are spoonfed the information it is deemed appropriate for us to have and nothing more.
I think it's important to retain as much individuality and impartiality as possible.

That's true. But I think Jesus was referring more to people deciding already whether they're guilty or innocent and then only pay attention to information that corresponds to that viewpoint and automatically rubbishing anything that contradicts it.

Actually educating yourself and making an informed decision is definitely important, I agree with you there.

[Kizzy]

Or, if you look at it another way; Facts...
All links provided on this thread by interested parties are to evidence as presented as part of the case, not heresay or opinion.
Specific information such as witness statements and evidence found at the time and or since.
It is easy to suggest opinions are wrong when it relates to speculation, but when commenting on the actual testimony of those involved it's different I would say.

[lostalex]

Or, if you look at it another way; Facts...
All links provided on this thread by interested parties are to evidence as presented as part of the case, not heresay or opinion.
Specific information such as witness statements and evidence found at the time and or since.
It is easy to suggest opinions are wrong when it relates to speculation, but when commenting on the actual testimony of those involved it's different I would say.

umm, no. everyone in this thread has been talking about the relevant facts to the case, and most of them have been ridiculed because let's be frank, there aren't many FACTS in this case, most of the CRAP presented in this case is just speculation.


The truth is we have no ****ing idea what happened, because there are no eye witnesses, there is no body, there is no hard evidence.

There's basically NOTHING to this case. Just 1 missing girl.

People can get excited about a reinactment on TV all they want, but the fact is, nobody has a ****ing clue what happened to this little girl, and there is no solid evidence to suggest what did happen.

It's still just a tabloid cluster**** from what i can tell.

[Jords]

It was an interesting show, I dont think we'll ever get answers but all the best.

[chuff me dizzy]

Or, if you look at it another way; Facts...
All links provided on this thread by interested parties are to evidence as presented as part of the case, not heresay or opinion.
Specific information such as witness statements and evidence found at the time and or since.
It is easy to suggest opinions are wrong when it relates to speculation, but when commenting on the actual testimony of those involved it's different I would say.

Opinions and facts are 2 different things Kizzy ,and when you have the facts the rest just falls into place

[chuff me dizzy]

umm, no. everyone in this thread has been talking about the relevant facts to the case, and most of them have been ridiculed because let's be frank, there aren't many FACTS in this case, most of the CRAP presented in this case is just speculation.


The truth is we have no ****ing idea what happened, because there are no eye witnesses, there is no body, there is no hard evidence.

There's basically NOTHING to this case. Just 1 missing girl.

People can get excited about a reinactment on TV all they want, but the fact is, nobody has a ****ing clue what happened to this little girl, and there is no solid evidence to suggest what did happen.

It's still just a tabloid cluster**** from what i can tell.

Read case files and witness statements ...educate yourself

[Kazanne]

I have to say I really want to believe and feel for these two,just pix like this make it kinda hard.
https://scontent-a-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/p320x320/1383516_678019635549924_1155327273_n.jpg

The McCanns in a rare moment of emotional sincerity shortly after the "abduction" of their daughter.

[MTVN]

What's strange about that pic?

[Kazanne]

What's strange about that pic?

Well if you cant see that MTVN,it must just be me:hugesmile:

[AnnieK]

I have to say I really want to believe and feel for these two,just pix like this make it kinda hard.
https://scontent-a-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/p320x320/1383516_678019635549924_1155327273_n.jpg

The McCanns in a rare moment of emotional sincerity shortly after the "abduction" of their daughter.

How soon after Maddie went missing was this taken?

[Kazanne]

How soon after Maddie went missing was this taken?

They were still in Portugal annie ,I don't know the exact date as I was sent it via email,I will try and find out.

[Benjamin]

Are there any mock pictures of what she would look like now?

[Jesus.]

I have to say I really want to believe and feel for these two,just pix like this make it kinda hard.
https://scontent-a-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/p320x320/1383516_678019635549924_1155327273_n.jpg

The McCanns in a rare moment of emotional sincerity shortly after the "abduction" of their daughter.

In that photo, you can clearly see that they have a film crew with them, and you can see quite a lot of staring people in hte background too. I think it's fair to assume that there are probably well wishers or rubberneckers staring at them from in front as well, so maybe they are smiling at them, as if to acknowledge the kindness shown towards them?

I think it would be a couple of very stupid people, who, after murdering their child, decided to go on a smiley walkabout.

[Jesus.]

Are there any mock pictures of what she would look like now?

I think there are some in this thread somewhere. I definitely remember seeing them about, but there has been so much stuff recently, I could be mistaken in where I saw them. I know they have definitely been made.

[Kazanne]

In that photo, you can clearly see that they have a film crew with them, and you can see quite a lot of staring people in hte background too. I think it's fair to assume that there are probably well wishers or rubberneckers staring at them from in front as well, so maybe they are smiling at them, as if to acknowledge the kindness shown towards them?

I think it would be a couple of very stupid people, who, after murdering their child, decided to go on a smiley walkabout.

I didn't say they had murdered her Jesus,and as I said it's probably just me reading the pic wrong.

[Jesus.]

I didn't say they had murdered her Jesus,and as I said it's probably just me reading the pic wrong.

That's fair enough. I thought you were implying it was murder because in the text underneath the pic, you wrote abducted is in quotation marks, which implies something else

But no worries. and I wasn't accusing you of accusing them of murder.

[Kizzy]

umm, no. everyone in this thread has been talking about the relevant facts to the case, and most of them have been ridiculed because let's be frank, there aren't many FACTS in this case, most of the CRAP presented in this case is just speculation.


The truth is we have no ****ing idea what happened, because there are no eye witnesses, there is no body, there is no hard evidence.

There's basically NOTHING to this case. Just 1 missing girl.

People can get excited about a reinactment on TV all they want, but the fact is, nobody has a ****ing clue what happened to this little girl, and there is no solid evidence to suggest what did happen.

It's still just a tabloid cluster**** from what i can tell.

There are facts alex, as stated there are links to witness statements.
Read them and you'll see the difference between fact and opinion.

[Benjamin]

Tbh, Alex is right. There really isn't a lot to go on. There are no actual witnesses or hard evidence to the abduction itself.

[Kazanne]

That's fair enough. I thought you were implying it was murder because in the text underneath the pic, you wrote abducted is in quotation marks, which implies something else

But no worries. and I wasn't accusing you of accusing them of murder.

I should have made it clearer the text you refer to came with the pic,so those aren't my words,I can see why you thought that.

[Kizzy]

Tbh, Alex is right. There really isn't a lot to go on. There are no actual witnesses or hard evidence to the abduction itself.

That's not the point, the links provided are still factual and not as suggested opinion or heresay.

[chuff me dizzy]

How soon after Maddie went missing was this taken?

2 weeks after Maddies demise

[Marsh.]

Bit unfair to caption a split second photograph.

Like when people are snapped half blinking and made to look like they're blind drunk.

[Lee.]

I have to say I really want to believe and feel for these two,just pix like this make it kinda hard.
https://scontent-a-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/p320x320/1383516_678019635549924_1155327273_n.jpg

The McCanns in a rare moment of emotional sincerity shortly after the "abduction" of their daughter.

This is the kind of crap that really gets to me... This photo does not not suggest nor prove anything! It's simply horrible insinuation.

[chuff me dizzy]

This is the kind of crap that really gets to me... This photo does not not suggest nor prove anything! It's simply horrible insinuation.

Do you have children Lee ?

[Lee.]

Do you have children Lee ?

Yes 2. Why?

[Marsh.]

That has no relevance to the photograph whether she has children.

It's a split second photograph with no context.

[Jesus.]

We've gone from it being about supposed facts, to a photograph of them.

[Kizzy]

I think the point was would you or I be capable of this 14 days after the abduction of our children, I honestly don't think I would.
That's how I see it anyway.

[Vicky.]

Yeah, hanging everything on a photo is a bit daft. Yes its been reported that they were unusually upbeat very very soon after she disappeared, BUT some people cope differently.

You cannot expect anyone to never smile again, no matter what horrible thing they have had thrown at them.

[Lee.]

I think the point was would you or I be capable of this 14 days after the abduction of our children, I honestly don't think I would.
That's how I see it anyway.

Capable of what? Walking?

[Kizzy]

Looking so relaxed and happy, that's the vibe I get from the pic anyway.
Everyones interpretation will differ though won't it?

[Marsh.]

Yeah, but all that from a split second photo? Not fair to judge.

Like making someone look bladdered when you catch them half blinking.

[Jesus.]

If your argument is that they are guilty, and you think what you've provided are cold hard facts (even though they don't really stack up), then pictures like this just prove that deep down you know that you don't have the facts.

If I post a pic of them crying taken a couple of days after the "abduction", then that must prove their innocence by this logic.

[Lee.]

Looking so relaxed and happy, that's the vibe I get from the pic anyway.
Everyones interpretation will differ though won't it?

Somebody could be shouting good wishes to them, they may be mid conversation, Kate could be squinting at the sun, it's just a photograph taken in a split second.

[Ammi]

..wasn't that a big part of the speculations in the first place and also what the Portugese didn't like, that they didn't 'look' upset enough, so that would assume then that they possibly knew more about her disappearance....I always thought it seemed bizarre that there must be some kind of human template of how parents should 'look' in that situation....

[Lee.]

..wasn't that a big part of the speculations in the first place and also what the Portugese didn't like, that they didn't 'look' upset enough, so that would assume then that they possibly knew more about her disappearance....I always thought it seemed bizarre that there must be some kind of human template of how parents should 'look' in that situation....

Yes, and I'd find it even more odd if they looked this "normal" after having something to do with their daughters death, then managing to conceal a dead body so well that it's never been found.

[Kizzy]

I have said it's down to personal interpretation, and that it was only my view... I appreciate it's not widely accepted.
The facts that don't 'stack up' confuse me, as said many times links provided are not meant to 'prove' anything... They're just information on the situation as it was given at the time by those directly involved.

[Kazanne]

I have said it's down to personal interpretation, and that it was only my view... I appreciate it's not widely accepted.
The facts that don't 'stack up' confuse me, as said many times links provided are not meant to 'prove' anything... They're just information on the situation as it was given at the time by those directly involved.

Same for me Kizzy,I am not saying they have done anything wrong BUT I cannot dismiss a lot of things that are there in black and white and even some shades of grey,I posted the pic simply because it is strange to me that someone who had lost a child could even raise the strength to walkabout,plus it is not the only picture like this on the net.there are quite a lot!!!,I just find that reaction weird,I am not asking anyone else to feel the same,we all have our opinions and mine is total confusion and this reaction to ME is totally alien.

[chuff me dizzy]

If only people would come off of playing silly quizzes and take a day or 2 to read the police files ,witness statement as thousands of people have, they would see the larger picture, but some folk are more then happy to plod on believe the red tops and not giving a flying one for an innocent child ,as long they are ok ,sod the rest, gladly thats not my attitude or thousands of others, since Crimewatch aired 7 days ago,one group alone that I am in has had 11,000 new members who HAVE read files etc ,and are now also fighting for justice for Maddie

[Jesus.]

I have said it's down to personal interpretation, and that it was only my view... I appreciate it's not widely accepted.
The facts that don't 'stack up' confuse me, as said many times links provided are not meant to 'prove' anything... They're just information on the situation as it was given at the time by those directly involved.

I really didn't want to quote you here, but as you've indirectly quoted me, then I sort of have to really. Your post above seems reasonable enough. Just personal opinion no advancement of your own views, etc etc.

Lets ask Kizzy from the previous page what she thinks about the evidence:

Or, if you look at it another way; Facts...
All links provided on this thread by interested parties are to evidence as presented as part of the case, not heresay or opinion.
Specific information such as witness statements and evidence found at the time and or since.
It is easy to suggest opinions are wrong when it relates to speculation, but when commenting on the actual testimony of those involved it's different I would say.

Right, so the links in this thread are not meant to prove anything, but they are evidence, and not heresay?

Well that's wrong as well. Just by picking apart one piece of the facts on display from those links, which is easily done with the dogs, for example, then the whole thing is called into question. They aren't facts. It's an internet trolling group that get together to hound the McCanns, because they are convinced of their guilt. Chuff has made that perfectly clear in this thread already. When you click the links, they aren't people who are just throwing interesting things about the case into the public arena for s**ts and giggles, they're doing it to try and provide "evidence" for the guilt of the McCanns

Witness statements are notoriously unreliable because of the way the human brain works to recall information, and especially in times of great stress. There are no solid facts to be found in this case other than a child is missing, that's it. So speculating about photo's and the grieving process with hints and double entendre is really neither here nor there.

[chuff me dizzy]

For the first time in over 6 years I think the press is finally waking up to what happened, this is from the Mirror, read all the comments and see how many "likes" they got ,and the rare thing is usually within half an hour of comments being allowed they are all removed and comments not allowed ,it give me hope that finally someone is opening their eyes and letting talk about the police side of the case too, hoping this is the breakthrough we have waited for http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/vile-trolls-target-madeleine-mccann-2472668

[Jesus.]

And when articles about 9/11 appear, it's the "truthers" that bombard the comments sections as well.

[the truth]

why haven't they been at ;least investigated by social services for neglecting their babies abroad FOR YEARS

[the truth]

Have they financially gained from the various monies raised in the maddie campaign?

[the truth]

how can we justify spending millions on them and not on other missing children?
why too have these endless documentaries not mentioned madeleine had a mark on one eye , it may also be a different color?

[chuff me dizzy]

I really didn't want to quote you here, but as you've indirectly quoted me, then I sort of have to really. Your post above seems reasonable enough. Just personal opinion no advancement of your own views, etc etc.

Lets ask Kizzy from the previous page what she thinks about the evidence:



Right, so the links in this thread are not meant to prove anything, but they are evidence, and not heresay?

Well that's wrong as well. Just by picking apart one piece of the facts on display from those links, which is easily done with the dogs, for example, then the whole thing is called into question. They aren't facts. It's an internet trolling group that get together to hound the McCanns, because they are convinced of their guilt. Chuff has made that perfectly clear in this thread already. When you click the links, they aren't people who are just throwing interesting things about the case into the public arena for s**ts and giggles, they're doing it to try and provide "evidence" for the guilt of the McCanns

Witness statements are notoriously unreliable because of the way the human brain works to recall information, and especially in times of great stress. There are no solid facts to be found in this case other than a child is missing, that's it. So speculating about photo's and the grieving process with hints and double entendre is really neither here nor there.

As you must know I do not usually answer your rubbish ,but this time I will make an exception ,Can you please tell me what Maddie groups you have been on ,and what give you the right to call people trolls ?

[thesheriff443]

For the first time in over 6 years I think the press is finally waking up to what happened, this is from the Mirror, read all the comments and see how many "likes" they got ,and the rare thing is usually within half an hour of comments being allowed they are all removed and comments not allowed ,it give me hope that finally someone is opening their eyes and letting talk about the police side of the case too, hoping this is the breakthrough we have waited for http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/vile-trolls-target-madeleine-mccann-2472668

you don't know jack, the same as everyone else,
if there was enough proof to prove what happened it would of been out by now, even if it was for or against the mccanns

there is no cover up, just not enough hard evidence.

let the professionals do their jobs, not the bloody internet police putting two and two together coming up with five.

[the truth]

you don't know jack, the same as everyone else,
if there was enough proof to prove what happened it would of been out by now, even if it was for or against the mccanns

there is no cover up, just not enough hard evidence.

let the professionals do their jobs, not the bloody internet police putting two and two together coming up with five.

professionals? who david beckham? isn't that where the mccans went , then the Pope? The police have asked for public input, now theyre getting it, so whats the problem

[the truth]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-490415/Row-McCanns-use-1million-Madeleine-fund-pay-mortgage.html

charity funds used to pay their mortgage according to this

[chuff me dizzy]

how can we justify spending millions on them and not on other missing children?
why too have these endless documentaries not mentioned madeleine had a mark on one eye , it may also be a different color?

No one could possibly justify the vast amount of money been thrown McCanns way esp after the millions donated to the "search fund they set up 6 DAYS after Maddies demise ,the eye thing ,early days police advised McCanns NOT to mention her eye as it could result as it could single her out and the "abductor" could harm her eye to prevent her being recognised, but McCanns ignored police advise and use the image in poster campaigns ,as Gerry said it was
"A good marketing ploy" since then they have played down her eye saying it was "just a tiny dot, hardly visible?????? they need to make their minds up

[thesheriff443]

professionals? who david beckham? isn't that where the mccans went , then the Pope? The police have asked for public input, now theyre getting it, so whats the problem

if you have information on the case, give it to the police,
don't read thru evidence that they already have and claim you have proof.

[Jack_]

but some folk are more then happy to plod on believe the red tops and not giving a flying one for an innocent child

and are now also fighting for justice for Maddie

The irony of you accusing people of believing the red tops whilst dedicating years of your time to a case that centres around just one missing child that has become so well known and documented because of the tabloids is almost too good to be true

how can we justify spending millions on them and not on other missing children?

It's called 'Missing White Girl Syndrome'. You compare this case to the Sharon Matthews' one and just look at how the media treated the family (before they discovered Karen was responsible), with Maddie it was 'this poor family, how could it happen to the child of two Doctors, this doesn't happen to people like us' whilst with Sharon it was 'well have you seen the area she was living in I'm not surprised' and bringing her background and family life into disrepute almost immediately after it happened. Didn't happen so quickly with the McCann's other than condemning them for leaving her alone

[Kazanne]

People all have differing opinions and it's really petty imo,to get ancy because someone doesn't agree with you ,also I see no trolls ,just people who have different opinions,some agree some don't,nothing to get arsey over,there ARE several sites and links that can be read and people can then make their own minds up.I doubt very much that Chuff goes by what the red tops say,from what I've seen there is more than enough information out there.

[Niamh.]

The irony of you accusing people of believing the red tops whilst dedicating years of your time to a case that centres around just one missing child that has become so well known and documented because of the tabloids is almost too good to be true



It's called 'Missing White Girl Syndrome'. You compare this case to the Sharon Matthews' one and just look at how the media treated the family (before they discovered Karen was responsible), with Maddie it was 'this poor family, how could it happen to the child of two Doctors, this doesn't happen to people like us' whilst with Sharon it was 'well have you seen the area she was living in I'm not surprised' and bringing her background and family life into disrepute almost immediately after it happened. Didn't happen so quickly with the McCann's other than condemning them for leaving her alone

Shannon Matthews was a missing white girl also :suspect:

[Josy]

Shannon Matthews was a missing white girl also :suspect:

Yeah I totally get what Jack was meaning though, both girls were from completely different backgrounds.

[Niamh.]

Yeah I totally get what Jack was meaning though, both girls were from completely different backgrounds.

I get that bit, I just don't see what race has to do with it, especially since they're both white

[chuff me dizzy]

professionals? who david beckham? isn't that where the mccans went , then the Pope? The police have asked for public input, now theyre getting it, so whats the problem

You forgot to mention JK Rowling,Richard Branson,Brian Kennedy (Everest double glazing ) who threw millions their way,I would love to know what happened to Elton John ,who Gerry said (48 days in ) was going to do a concert for the fund to mark the 100 days anniversary ,how did the McCanns know she would not be home by then ? The day the McCanns asked the public for £$ they became public property ,and should remember the old saying "Be careful what you wish for if could come back and bite you on the arse "

[Josy]

I get that bit, I just don't see what race has to do with it, especially since they're both white

I don't really get why they make a point of only including race in the saying either tbh it's really to describe contrasting victims, whether that be race, social background, looks or whatever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome

[Niamh.]

I don't really get why they make a point of only including race in the saying either tbh it's really to describe contrasting victims, whether that be race, social background, looks or whatever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome

oh it's an actual phrase? the name is a bit inaccurate but they definitely make good points, if the McCanns had been working class and had been at the pub rather then at a restaurant, they would have been a whole lot more criticism of their parenting skills imo and I don't think people would be excusing it as a mistake or error in judgement

[Marsh.]

Same for me Kizzy,I am not saying they have done anything wrong BUT I cannot dismiss a lot of things that are there in black and white and even some shades of grey,I posted the pic simply because it is strange to me that someone who had lost a child could even raise the strength to walkabout,plus it is not the only picture like this on the net.there are quite a lot!!!,I just find that reaction weird,I am not asking anyone else to feel the same,we all have our opinions and mine is total confusion and this reaction to ME is totally alien.

BIB - That's where they can't win really. Some people thought it strange that they wouldn't be searching tirelessly themselves for their little girl and then other people find it strange that they have the strength to go on a walkabout.

If only people would come off of playing silly quizzes and take a day or 2 to read the police files ,witness statement as thousands of people have, they would see the larger picture, but some folk are more then happy to plod on believe the red tops and not giving a flying one for an innocent child ,as long they are ok ,sod the rest, gladly thats not my attitude or thousands of others, since Crimewatch aired 7 days ago,one group alone that I am in has had 11,000 new members who HAVE read files etc ,and are now also fighting for justice for Maddie

Keyboard warriors. YOU aren't going to achieve anything sat behind your computer reposting links on the internet.

For the first time in over 6 years I think the press is finally waking up to what happened, this is from the Mirror, read all the comments and see how many "likes" they got ,and the rare thing is usually within half an hour of comments being allowed they are all removed and comments not allowed ,it give me hope that finally someone is opening their eyes and letting talk about the police side of the case too, hoping this is the breakthrough we have waited for http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/vile-trolls-target-madeleine-mccann-2472668

You mean the tabloids didn't already write all kinds of venom about the McCann's years ago? Uh, oh yeah, they did.

[chuff me dizzy]

People all have differing opinions and it's really petty imo,to get ancy because someone doesn't agree with you ,also I see no trolls ,just people who have different opinions,some agree some don't,nothing to get arsey over,there ARE several sites and links that can be read and people can then make their own minds up.I doubt very much that Chuff goes by what the red tops say,from what I've seen there is more than enough information out there.

Oh yes a lot than enough ,but its being ignored ,and people should be curious to why its being ignored ,the day I believe even the date
on a red top is a long way off

[GypsyGoth]

Does anyone else find it suspicious that they got matching "I killed Maddie and got away with it" tattoos?

[Marsh.]

People all have differing opinions and it's really petty imo,to get ancy because someone doesn't agree with you ,also I see no trolls ,just people who have different opinions,some agree some don't,nothing to get arsey over,there ARE several sites and links that can be read and people can then make their own minds up.I doubt very much that Chuff goes by what the red tops say,from what I've seen there is more than enough information out there.

Oh yes a lot than enough ,but its being ignored ,and people should be curious to why its being ignored ,the day I believe even the date
on a red top is a long way off

This is hilarious to me because Chuff is the one getting arsey with everyone else for not swallowing everything she says or daring to question some of her points.

Instead of responding with an answer, she throws passive aggressive comments insulting you.

No point engaging on a discussion forum unless you want to actually discuss and not just dictate.

[Jesus.]

Does anyone else find it suspicious that they got matching "I killed Maddie and got away with it" tattoos?

Me drinking vimto squash reading this.

http://media.tumblr.com/7750072ca22ea0600dae8959b4c566a1/tumblr_inline_mu80nmPQBV1rt6vve.gif

[Cherie]

Does anyone else find it suspicious that they got matching "I killed Maddie and got away with it" tattoos?

:joker: That will be a FACT tomorrow.

[chuff me dizzy]

This is hilarious to me because Chuff is the one getting arsey with everyone else for not swallowing everything she says or daring to question some of her points.

Instead of responding with an answer, she throws passive aggressive comments insulting you.

No point engaging on a discussion forum unless you want to actually discuss and not just dictate.

There are certain types of people who are not capable of discussing the weather never mind a more deeper thing ,I can and will discuss with the right type of people until the cows come home, but people who play Candy Crush all day ? No thanks

[chuff me dizzy]

you don't know jack, the same as everyone else,
if there was enough proof to prove what happened it would of been out by now, even if it was for or against the mccanns

there is no cover up, just not enough hard evidence.

let the professionals do their jobs, not the bloody internet police putting two and two together coming up with five.

How many of the police statements have you read? how many files have you looked at ?

[Marsh.]

There are certain types of people who are not capable of discussing the weather never mind a more deeper thing ,I can and will discuss with the right type of people until the cows come home, but people who play Candy Crush all day ? No thanks

You've not attempted discussion with anyone and made immature presumptions on their ability to have a conversation.

It's hard to engage in discussion with someone who tells you to **** off before you've opened your mouth.

[Lee.]

Chuff, what do you think actually happened that day in Portugal? I'm not being arsey, I'm genuinely interested.

[Kazanne]

This thread isn't about scoring points on who is right and who is wrong ,none of us know,but we ARE allowed opinions whether they conflict or not without being shot down,as parents I think they were negligent and should have been brought to task on that(there now I've said it)I hadn't read too much on it until the Crimewatch aired,now I have seen and heard some things that just don't sit right,so shoot me now,I don't know what happened but I 'feel' something is not right,hope I'm wrong.

[user104658]

oh it's an actual phrase? the name is a bit inaccurate but they definitely make good points, if the McCanns had been working class and had been at the pub rather then at a restaurant, they would have been a whole lot more criticism of their parenting skills imo and I don't think people would be excusing it as a mistake or error in judgement

They'd have been lucky if it made front page news in the first place... let alone major headlines several times a week for months, and front pages 7 years later.

[Kizzy]

I really didn't want to quote you here, but as you've indirectly quoted me, then I sort of have to really. Your post above seems reasonable enough. Just personal opinion no advancement of your own views, etc etc.

Lets ask Kizzy from the previous page what she thinks about the evidence:



Right, so the links in this thread are not meant to prove anything, but they are evidence, and not heresay?

Well that's wrong as well. Just by picking apart one piece of the facts on display from those links, which is easily done with the dogs, for example, then the whole thing is called into question. They aren't facts. It's an internet trolling group that get together to hound the McCanns, because they are convinced of their guilt. Chuff has made that perfectly clear in this thread already. When you click the links, they aren't people who are just throwing interesting things about the case into the public arena for s**ts and giggles, they're doing it to try and provide "evidence" for the guilt of the McCanns

Witness statements are notoriously unreliable because of the way the human brain works to recall information, and especially in times of great stress. There are no solid facts to be found in this case other than a child is missing, that's it. So speculating about photo's and the grieving process with hints and double entendre is really neither here nor there.

I am reasonable, all my responses have been rational and reasoned.
The links provided by both chuff and josy have provided factual information on witness statements, whether or not you choose to accept that or not is your choice, nobody else is forced to take your interpretation are they?
Reading as much information as you can and staying objective is key I think.